vw fox 88 wont start normally

my vw fox 88 wont start on the first try.

it takes 3 tor 4 trys to start it. after that it runs, idles and works well all day long while driving. once you shu tit off it is hard to start again after it sits for awhile.

white smoke does come out the back if i had lots of problems starting it. but it goes away.

my water level goes down but my rediator does leak drops of water from it to the ground so hard to tell if water is coming from here into my head.

i did a compression test and water blew out the spark plug hole. mostly just 1 but maybe a little out of a second one as well.

compression:

front spark plug hole to back:

front 160-165 (maybe a little bit of water out of this one, not sure)
next 170-185 (water comes out this one)
next 170-175
back 170-175

spark plug and wires just changed, no help.

when i take the spark plug wire of each plug while its running it doesnt seem to be such a problem, or at least i cant hear it chugging like i thought it would when i do this. shouldnt it die? lol it doesnt seem to matter much when its off thte 2nd one from the front (the one with water)

ive hard the starter and batterie and alternator checked at autozone, where they bring the machine out to the car, many times since this started happening. no problems at all.

can it actually be a dirty fuel filter causing it to not start quickly each time? if it was clogged then would it work better once the car started because i dont have any problems once it gets started.

---------------------------------
its my head gasket isnt it?

if it is then how does this think just have problems starting but none whatsoever after it starts. runs purfect. why is that?

could it be the cold start valve? i put the ohm meter to it and it seems to get a reading so i guess its not burn or dead.

my fuel pressure regulator doesnt have the hose connected to anything (not sure where its supposed to go) but its been like that for years.

i recently had the heater bypass hose go out, then the heater core went out. dang it. it did overheat a few times while all this was going on. when it rains it pours.

by the way is the recall still available even though its almost 2006?

what else can i check to make sure its not just a simple part. i cant keep buying things for it to see what it is. i returned the fuel fileter today after i saw the water come out of the spark plug.

i need to get ideas on how to check for what it is that makes it not start that wont cost too much money.

thanks for any ideas. :)

Sounds like you need to pull off the cylinder head. Hopefully it is just the headgasket - but be aware that in rare instances it can be a warped (or even cracked) cylinder head. If you do this work yourself, then it's a good idea to take the cylinder head to your local reputable machine shop to have them check it out for you (unless you have the means to check it yourself). It is most likely just the head gasket, though. Around 180,000 to 200,000 miles is when most 4 cylinder, gasoline, watercooled VWs start to have head gasket issues.

With a leak between the coolant and the combustion chamber, you are constantly pressurizing the coolant system as the compression from the cylinder bore(s) leaks into the coolant. Once the car is shut off, coolant will leak back into the cylinder bore(s) until enough of the pressure is relieved. That can definitely cause problems starting after it has sat long enough - you have a little swimming pool in your combustion chamber! :)

Fix the compression problem first (head gasket, most likely - as stated above) and if you still have starting issues then let us all know.

The first car I ever owned was a 1988 Fox GL with a 5 speed from a Fox GLS swapped into it - I loved that car.

Thanks for the information!

2 weeks ago i tried using the a stop gap fix measure. first i took off the valve cover gasket and cleaned all the foamy froth off of it.

Then i torqued the head bolts down in the correct order starting at 30, then 44 (which is the required amount plus 1/2 turn after that which I didn't do in this case), then i went instead to 60 and then to 70. most all of them clicked right away at 30 and 44 though. one of them in the back left corner was actually was very loose.

After that i put the valve cover back on. and proceeded to flush any cooolan t out of the system and poured in the K & W permanant block repair liquid. I ran it through the steps as directed and let the car idle for 60 minutes. I then flushed all of that out.

After that the car ran but to test it further I took it on long trips. So far it starts up perfect every time like it used to do! Hooray! I do see some spurts of water or condensation come out of the tail pipe sometimes. Maybe that is normal, but being so overly concerned about it right now I don't remeber if it did that or not before. Probably did.

I wonder if this will be a permanant fix or if it will wear away after awhile. Not sure If it was torquing down the head bolts a bit more then normal was the fix, If the possibly loose head bolt was the fix or the block sealer was the fix or all 3.

Time will tell I guess.

You had loose *head* bolts? Have you ever had any work done to the car that might have involved removal of the head? It may be that they weren't properly torqued down at some point in the past and have loosened over time... but I've never heard of head bolts backing out on their own before. Strange!

Anyway, I hope she continues to run well for you! Despite being under-appreciated, they are great cars. I wouldn't mind having another one, in fact.

You had loose *head* bolts? Have you ever had any work done to the car that might have involved removal of the head? It may be that they weren't properly torqued down at some point in the past and have loosened over time... but I've never heard of head bolts backing out on their own before. Strange!

Anyway, I hope she continues to run well for you! Despite being under-appreciated, they are great cars. I wouldn't mind having another one, in fact.


ok you caught me! now im gonna have to confess. no prior work done. however, what really happened was that i mistakenly used the torque wrench to unloosen each bolt to 30 and then to 44. by the time i got to the back left hand bolt it 'came' loose. big difference i know. but still the others didnt do that. this one actually was loose. at first i thought i had over torqued it and broke it! yikes! that would have been the end of that car!

when i realized that i went and changed direections on the wrench, duh!, and started all over tightening each one 30, then 44 then - instead of half a turn like required - 60 then 70.

but if you think about what happened you might still come to the conclusion that that back bolt was 'loose'-er then the rest.

ok thats my final story and im sticking to it! i love that car too. i picked it up for $500 3 years ago and only had to give it $200-$300 a year in repairs and maintanence. good deal for me for sure.

most everything has been fixed, when broken, and all i havnt done which i should do it the timing belt. it still looks good but you know how that goes. also, when i had the water pump replaced it was a mobile mechanic and i wanted a cheap price so we wdidnt replace it. darn it.

now i got another car after this scare and i went ahead and tried the repairs on the fox which worked. now i got two cars. the fox is booked at $650 but im telling you its worth a lot more then that. it keeps running, its easy to work on, you can get the parts anywhere and most things just keep on working. i love that car. i want to get it quick painted so it shines but people laugh at me :)

im thinking or advertising it as a great deal that keep running for $1300 with payments. and that i will pay the first $500 in keep-it-running car repairs if need in the first 6 months. i think that might be a good way to get the money i think its worth out of it. worst case i get my $600 :)

glad to see someone else out there love this car as much as i do! everytime i start it up i pat the dash board and say "thanks again baby!" and "good girl!"