Sporty Daily Driver?

Hello Mates,

I'm looking to buy myself a daily driver that could eventually be made into a fairly quick car. I would like the car to be decently reliable, get decent gas mileage (Gas prices are killin' me here...I was hoping to get at least above 20 MPG) and can be had for around $5,000. The car doesn't have to be the fastest thing in the world, but I would want it to be able to be made into something fast over the years. I've done a lot of looking around on the forums and come up with some cars that might be good:

- Porsche 944
- Honda CRX
- VW Golf 20V
- Dodge Daytona Turbo II
- Honda Civic Hatchback
- VW Corrado G60 1.8
- BMW E30
- Nissan S12 w/ SR20DET or CA18DET swap

So, what do you guys think would be the best for me? I will probably be adding more cars as I do more research but hopefully this could give me a rough estimate here.

Thank you guys and I look forward to your replies.

Obviously I'm going to have to suggest the Daytona Turbo II. You would want to get a 1989 model since it would have the common block engine and it also wouldn't have those pesky balance shafts like the Turbo I, III, and IV. You would easily be able to find a very nice 1989 Daytona with a Turbo II for well under $5,000. The great thing is that they get good gas mileage. My old 1989 LeBaron GTC Turbo II got an average of 25 MPG combined city and highway driving. I also had a heavy foot a lot of the time. As far as reliability is concerned my LeBaron had 152,000 on the clock before it was totaled. The car didn't leak a drop; it never left me stranded, and nothing major broke that wasn't my fault. It still ran 14 PSI of boost and ran like the day it was new. As long as you take care of them correctly these cars can last over 200,000 miles. Now you say that you want to make it faster. Lucky for you these cars are cheap and easy to make faster. You can quickly make one run in the 12s in the 1/4 mile and still be perfectly daily drivable. The aftermarket for these cars isn't huge but there is enough of an aftermarket. The reason I used my LeBaron as an example is because the Turbo II GTC is pretty much the same car as the Turbo II Daytona.

If you have any questions feel free to ask and I can post you up a load of links for vendors and information.

damn mopar people...can't make an unbiased answer :p ...but i'm gonna go with a porche 944 on this one, it's a car that you can take to the track stock and have a ton of fun and although they would be hard to find new engine mods for it....there are tons of used performance stuff that you can take off of different porche cars....but this car would be the most to maintain and stuff....but if you don't have the cash for it...go for the factory turbo mopar...i had a plymouth laser turbo and had a TON of fun with it...either way you can't lose... :sunglasse

I would be stuck between the nissan or one of the hondas. You could get a crx for about 500 used and get a motor from anywhere between 500-1200 depending on the motor. Any of these cars can be made fast and get good gas mileage at the same time.

Okay, thanks guys.

Polygon - I'm looking more and more at the Daytona after your reply and it does look very nice. I did check Ebay and couldn't find much. Where do you recommend I look for them?

King of Crunk - Is that Adam Corolla and Dr. Drew under your name? I love them on Love Line. :)

Any other replies would be greatly appreciated! Thank you guys!

There are a couple of other to consider such as, the Subaru Impreza RS. Not only is it a nice handling car with a NA 2.5l H4, but like any Subaru it can take virtually any Subaru engine from any model. There are also turbocharging kits for the RS too. As well as a constantly growing slew of other aftermarket parts.

Also, if you are considering a Poursche 994, then you should take into consideration as well its JDM counterpart the 2nd gen RX-7. Aside from gas mileage and top speed they are virtually identical when it comes to performance numbers with the RX-7 costing thousands less. You can also opt to swap in a twin or even triple rotary cosmo engine.

Then there is the Suzuki Swift GTi or GT. Sure, it might not seem like much with 100hp, but only weighs about 1741lbs. Not only that but it can use parts from almost any Japanese, Korean and even some American manufacturers. Need a better exhause, put in one for a Celica. How about a turbocharger plus intercooler, no problem just take a Mitsubishi based one out of a Evo or even a Dodge Daytona. With its usually cheap price and being able to fit almost any part, not to mention a small aftermarket of its own the Suzuki Swift GTi can make a pretty sporty hatch.

If you want another CRX alternative there is always the Mitsubishi Turbo or even NA. Sure it might not come with an intercooler stock but you can always get one out of an Eclipse/Talon or even Evo. You can also swap in a 4G64 turbocharged engine for that matter as well as maybe even a tranny from a GSX/Tsi or perhaps Evo.

Thanks Vador. I'll definately be looking at the Suzuki Swift. I really like the fact that it's not a really big car. I'd probably really surprise my friends if I bought that...

Keep those replies coming! :) Thank you!

LT1 F-Body, faster than anything mentioned so far and still capable of 20+ mpg. You might also check out a Taurus SHO (V6 ones) they are pretty fast and still get good milage.

Adam Carolla is God. :iceslolan

Bullshit my ass an lt1 gets 20+ mpg best ive ever seen was 18mpg on a 45 degree day on 95. Besides an sr20det 240 could smoke a camaro or firebird. You could always get a turbo mkIII supra, there was one for sale up here for 3500 with 89,000 miles. Theres so mnay options from that list i would stray away from older mitsu cars unless its an awd turbo eclipse or talon, ive seen spun bearings, cracked blocks and some much worst stuff but other wise there some pretty strong cars. My suggestion is still the nissan or one of the Hondas but VADOR did make a nice recomendation on the 2.5 rs. Do some research and you could get a car that has the potential to be beast.

mine gets 21mpg highway...

Bullshit my ass an lt1 gets 20+ mpg best ive ever seen was 18mpg on a 45 degree day on 95. Besides an sr20det 240 could smoke a camaro or firebird. You could always get a turbo mkIII supra, there was one for sale up here for 3500 with 89,000 miles. Theres so mnay options from that list i would stray away from older mitsu cars unless its an awd turbo eclipse or talon, ive seen spun bearings, cracked blocks and some much worst stuff but other wise there some pretty strong cars. My suggestion is still the nissan or one of the Hondas but VADOR did make a nice recomendation on the 2.5 rs. Do some research and you could get a car that has the potential to be beast.

LT1s can and do get 20+ mpg, my friend achieves this on every tank with 300rwhp and 100k+ miles. It's the beauty of having two overdrives.

An sr20det 240 isn't touching an LS1 F-Body, and I'd be surprised if it could hang with an LT1 F-body.

Uh...Thunderbird?

The 4.6L are pretty reliable, and have somewhat of an aftermarket for them..

Super coupes are fucking awsome, not really a ford lover but i wouldnt mind owning one of them. The 4.6l motors arent that bad aftermarket for them in the past few years has blown up. As for the gas mileage on the f-bodyall that was done to the car was an intake and a w/p underdrive pulley, couldnt complain it got better gas mileage than my truck but they blow in the rain. Theres a 240 down here with a redtop sr20det that runs fucking 13.7's all it has is a front mount and an exhaust, and depending on the driver that can be a really close race. Hell theres 2 street crx's right now one belongs to one of my friends they both have the 1.5 sohc vtec with a turbo one runs 10.90's and my friends runs 11.50's. If he wants a fast car that can get good gas mileage if he can keep his foot of the throttle he could look into a grand national or a regal gnx, same car different car company. But i was just saying the best iver ever seen on a f-body car was 18mpg not the greatest but is not ad considering my blazer with a 4.3 only gets between 14-17mpg.

Thanks guys. I would like the 20 MPG to be city driving mostly. Again, thanks for all of the recommendations and any more would be welcome...

I've been doing some research and am looking at some of these cars:

- Isuzu Impulse RS
- Dodge Omni
- Mazda 323 GTX
- Subaru Impreza RS
- Toyota Celica All-Trac

Tell me what you guys think. Thanks!

An Isuzu Impulse RS will be and will require you or to find someone to fabricate some of the parts, which you might find actually not that bad. That aside they are very capable cars considering their power to weight ratio and the fact it is driven to all four wheels. I heard the people who designed that vehicle later moved to Subaru to make the WRX.

With the Dodge Omni, good luck finding one in good condition but once you do it will probably be a pretty good bargain.

If you think the Impulse RS is hard to find, try finding a Mazda 323 GTX. And the owner would probably not be willing to give it up unless you pay a good price.

The Impreza RS, like almost any Subaru, some on sale might be pretty beaten up. While other Subaru owners do some self maintenance for their car. Then there are some Impreza RSes that come pre-tuned and might come costing a bundle. All in all Subarus are very reliable vehicles even when beaten a little, even though it might need some initial maintenance. The good thing is when it comes to repairs it is no SVX.

Toyota Celica AllTrac is becoming more common to find on sale these days. But most on sale are usually pre-1990 models so finding a 90-92 is pretty rare.

hmm of the 4 your now giving Id definately have to recommend the Imprezza...It is reliable, looks good, and isn't a WRX but it holds its own if your aggressive...there are performance mods BUT depending on the year, the RS engine was only SOHC while the WRX & STi are DOHC meaning there are some compatability parts issues

that being said its definately a good value car, and alot of fun to drive

I would go with the alltrac out of all those awdturbo. The 3sgte can be built up to get amazing power levels. That or the impreza rs.

Okay, thanks guys. Vador, which do you think would be best for me since you seem very knowledgable?

Also, what do you guys think of the newer Isuzu Impulse/Geo Storm?

Also, I'm still looking at the other cars too (Nissan S12, Honda CRX, Nissan 200SX, etc.) that I originally listed. I'm just adding those on to my list.

Any other car recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks guys!

I still say the Subaru, one of the hondas or the nissan only because parts on those are extremely compatible. You can swap virtually any motor into almost any car with a honda or a nissan might cost some money but its possible. I never liked the geo storms really week motors. You could always look into a civic si coupe hey have lots of potential and i think the coupes look a lot better than the new HB.

One more major thing that I forgot to mention, what I really need is something that can accelerate pretty fast as most of my racing will just be from stop light to stop light with friends so the cars top end speed doesn't have to be very high.

Anyone know of a car that accelerates fast and gets good gas mileage?

Thank you.

Well, I am not that knowledgeable since I didn't know the Impreza RS had a SOHC engine. I always thought it was only the pre 93 Legacy GT, and pre 97 Outback trims that has the 2.2l SOHC. Well in truth despite that it wouldn't be as hard to modify as you think since the older Legacy GTs have a turbocharged 2.2l variant.

Which brings me to the best car for acceleration and fuel efficiency. For acceleration the Celica Alltrac will be faster since it is lighter in weight, as well as using a higher revving engine with shorter gearing.

But as for fuel efficiency and may I add reliability the Impreza RS would be a better choice. Its not only 5mpg better than the Celica AllTrac but you can also find most that are usually 6 years newer than there Toyota counterpart. Which gives them allot less of a chance of major rust spots among other body and interior damage. And even though the 3sgte can handle a lot of boost, a newer EJ251 might be more up to the challenge. Notice how I said might since the Celica engines are usually rock solid reliable no matter how old they may be. Not to mention how much cheaper it might be to swap in DOHC heads in contrast to swapping in a new engine.

So if you want an AWD coupe that is probably more reliable and fuel efficient which is still pretty tunable go for the Impreza RS. In contrast, the Celica AllTrac can be made to be potentially faster, but don't be surprised if you spend some of your money clearing up rust spots.

Both are great cars but depending on your brand preferences as well as depending on what you want out of them depending on speed, fuel efficiency and/or condition.

As for the Geo Storm, the ones you usually find for sale are ones that are beat up since they are regarded as cheap economy vehicles. But since they are, it is cheaper to fix them up and sometimes those owners usually do before they put them up for sale. They might no hold a candle to the Scooby or Toyota but are can compete quite well with the CRX. Especially the 1.6l 130hp DOHC Geo Storm GSi. If you didn't know the Geo Storm is a rebadged Suzuki Impulse. Earlier SOHC Geo Storm models have 5 less hp than their Suzuki counterparts. But there is really no difference between the DOHC ones. The Susuki Impulse may be in better condition though since, like some Subaru owners, Suzuki ones buy them knowing full well their internals so they perform maintenance themselves.

This owner know how especially goes for most Impulse RS owners, since it is a rare car since they were only produced from 1990-92. However if are lucky enough to ever come across one there is slightly more of a chance they can have some rust spots compared the Impreza, which can as well. This is considering most Subaru, Celica Alltrac and Impulse RS owners drove them throughout all the seasons. As well as those who own Geo Storms or Suzukis.

But regardless, most of the ones that are listed in this post as well as yours and others picked are pretty tunable. And while some may be better winter beaters then others most of the ones mentioned here, except for the S13, can go through snow without too much trouble and probably a whole lot better with some decent snow tires.

Thank you so much. So I've got it narrowed down to the Subaru Impreza RS and the Toyota Celica All-Trac. What years were they made? Any recommendations for which years to look for? Also, how much should I expect to pay for each of these?

Also, for acceleration, it doesn't have to be just the cars listed already. If you think you know of a car that suits my needs better than the ones mentioned, please tell me.

Thank you so much!

If your looking for acceleration then AWD will be your best friend, little to no wheel spin off the launch. Only problem is that most AWD cars have a really heavy drivetrain so the horsepower from the flywheel to the whp will be extremely different. Early WRX's lost almost 100hp from the engine to the wheels. As far as the geo storm it does have the dohc1.6l its the exact same motor in the 89-92 corolla sedans. If you wanted something in that style then a mazda MX3 with a turbo are decent not exactly good looking but they can be quick.

If your looking for something cheap that can be made into a beast then the honda would be your best bet. You could get a 12sec 1/4 mile crx for 5k i have a friends who spent less than 6500 on car wheels, tires, motor, turbo kit, lip kit and paint job as weel as interior work and suspension, his car ran 11.86 last friday at 7psi.

As for the alltrac i think 93 was the last year they where made and the rs is still in production but a 95-99 would probably be about the years you would be looking for.

If your looking for something cheap that can be made into a beast then the honda would be your best bet. You could get a 12sec 1/4 mile crx for 5k i have a friends who spent less than 6500 on car wheels, tires, motor, turbo kit, lip kit and paint job as weel as interior work and suspension, his car ran 11.86 last friday at 7psi.

I beg to differ.

You can get a Turbo Dodge in the 12s for around $2000, and trust me, you can find a good Turbo II car for less $4,500. Turbo Mopars are can be made faster for cheaper. Also, I would bet money that the common block engine is far stronger than any Honda engine as they will take about 500 HP before the connecting rods give.

If your looking for acceleration then AWD will be your best friend, little to no wheel spin off the launch. Only problem is that most AWD cars have a really heavy drivetrain so the horsepower from the flywheel to the whp will be extremely different. Early WRX's lost almost 100hp from the engine to the wheels.

I wouldn't say 100hp so much as 60 at most. You have to remember that most mid to later 90s as well as current manual Subarus use VTD that has two less gears which equates to less powertrain loss. While the earlier Toyota Alltrac models used a Torsen AWD system, which uses a certain configuration of tiny gears within a single differential to ensure the same result. However, each system distributes power differently with VTD being rear biased while Toyota's maintained a 50/50 while varying between front and back slightly.

As for getting a Honda Civic hatch or CRX when it comes to small cars. They are good but don’t expect people to skimp on the residual value. There are alternative such as the Suzuki Swift, Impulse, Geo Storm, MX-6 GT, Ford Probe GT, and Mitsubishi Colt or even Mirage coupe. You can even get a Dodge Neon and put in Magnum SOHC Cylinder Heads. I even heard good things about suping up the mid-late 90s Saturn S series, since their motors are rather torqui for their size.

We can give you a selection or our choice of car based on our know how, what we think we may know or even just opinion but it is primarily up to you to decide what you think you want depending on your demands and preferences.

Good luck :)

Thanks so much guys. If you guys could pick ONE car for me, which one it be?

Thanks.

Yeah that may be true but you can do swaps cheaper than that on just about any car honda, nissan, or toyota. Most of these look better than any mid80's-early90's Domestic cars. To me the only decent turbo mopar was the late 80's daytona. The thing about honda motors is that you dont need alot of power for the car to go fast. Stock crx si coould run low 15's high 14's with the stock motor and intake and an exhaust. Thats a 1.6l pushing 108 hp. Granted the car weighs just over 2200lbs but the thing is you can push 350-450 on the stock block but you dont need that much horsepower to make the car go fast 275hp can put the car into the 11's and thats possible on n/a applications.

Ill agree with vador any small car can be made fast but for some that you listed those cars can be hard to find in good condition and some of those cars dont look very nice. I have seen some sleeper storms and colt but to me there pretty damn ugly. As far as value of the car i could have bought a crx thursday for 500 it had a bodykit, wheels, exhaust, intake, headers, and a pretty shitty paint job. No rust and 110,000 miles on the odometer. Would have bought it but im fixing the rear in my blazer. So it is possible to find a deal. Like vador said we can make suggestions but its all up to you on what your looking for in the end. Look into prices of these cars through auto trader for a general idea of price then look into the aftermarket on the car and look into the reviews of the cars to see the problems that they had from those years. Its all in what your looking for.

a supercharged 800hp bmw m3 :p

Yeah that may be true but you can do swaps cheaper than that on just about any car honda, nissan, or toyota. Most of these look better than any mid80's-early90's Domestic cars. To me the only decent turbo mopar was the late 80's daytona. The thing about honda motors is that you dont need alot of power for the car to go fast. Stock crx si coould run low 15's high 14's with the stock motor and intake and an exhaust. Thats a 1.6l pushing 108 hp. Granted the car weighs just over 2200lbs but the thing is you can push 350-450 on the stock block but you dont need that much horsepower to make the car go fast 275hp can put the car into the 11's and thats possible on n/a applications.

Looks are subjective, so let's just drop that argument right now. Also, most Honda, Nissan, and Toyotas that you'd be looking at in the price range you're talking about aren't that great looking either. Anyhow, even after the swap I think you would be paying more. I got my GTC with the Turbo II for $600 and I drove it back all the way from Ohio the only problem along the way was an easily fixed vacuum leak and a flat tire. So for about $2,600 for the car and the mods I could be in the 12s. That's pretty damn cheap, and once again the engine will be stronger than any Honda block you can swap in.

As for the rest of your post I only have one thing to say:

You CAN'T be serious.

Yeah looks are subjective, and some imports from those years arent really the best looking cars. But most of them like 92-95 civic coupes and hatchbacks, crx's, hell an mr2 turbo coupe looks fucking awsome. As for the what the hell am i thinking comment its opinion. So il agree lets stop the looks argument, however the thing about engine power for imports you dont need alot of power to make the car go fast like i said 275 can drop a hatchback into the 11's. Its called horsepower to weight ratio and technology the OHC that replaced the old pushrod motors, fuel injection and ECU tuning. Thats why a 600 hp civic can beat a 1100hp mustang. Granted that the old mopar turbos were not slow you can do a 10 sec honda for less than 3k including the car. This is a never ending argument so im going to admit both sides have there strong points but no side is better than the other. Like my psych teacher said "to each his own" in other words no one is going to have the same idea on what makes a good car so dont make your opinion the one that matters.

I am sorry but there is no way that 275 HP is going to get a CRX into the 11s. Also, there is no way you will get a Honda in the 10 second range for less than $3,000. I'm sorry but that is pure BULLSHIT.

OK sorry ove been gone for a few days, 14 hour work days and trying to spend time with my girl, but that besides the point. Polygon i appoligize yeah it does take more than 3k for a 10sec crx its more like 5k but that includes the cost of the car, motor and turbo if you put most of the rest into the motor you can make the crx pull high to mid 10's. It also helps that there are sites devoted to honda motor swaps and you can get alot of the stuff off of ebay, junkyards or used. The 11 sec crx from 275 hp is possible remember the car weighs 2200lbs. On Honda-tech theres a high 11's crx with 230 hp and 275hp will put you into the mid to low 11's. My friend up here has a 320hp crx that runs 10.76 and my friend buddy said if you dont believe that 275 will put the car into the 11's then i will post his time slip after we can get his car to the track with the new motor.

As for imports not being able to handle more than 500hp your full of shit. Thats why theres stock block hondas and nissans running 8's with 600+hp b16's, b18's h22's, nissans sr20det's with well over 500hp running 8's. There are some imports running over 800hp on the stock block and crank, you under estimate imports but there potential is insane. Hell theres a 600hp b18running off of the stock crank and head. Im not going to say that mopars suck because they dont and i have seen some really fast early 90's dodge cars. For the same price or less you can get an import that runs faster. Before you start claiming BS i suggest you go look at a d-sport mag, or honda-tech because all of this is fact not something i just made up.

Nevermind about my friend buddy he just totaled the car a little over an hour ago. Hes getting a 97 civic coupe so it should run damn near close to the same time with the new motor.

OK sorry ove been gone for a few days, 14 hour work days and trying to spend time with my girl, but that besides the point. Polygon i appoligize yeah it does take more than 3k for a 10sec crx its more like 5k but that includes the cost of the car, motor and turbo if you put most of the rest into the motor you can make the crx pull high to mid 10's. It also helps that there are sites devoted to honda motor swaps and you can get alot of the stuff off of ebay, junkyards or used. The 11 sec crx from 275 hp is possible remember the car weighs 2200lbs. On Honda-tech theres a high 11's crx with 230 hp and 275hp will put you into the mid to low 11's. My friend up here has a 320hp crx that runs 10.76 and my friend buddy said if you dont believe that 275 will put the car into the 11's then i will post his time slip after we can get his car to the track with the new motor.

As for imports not being able to handle more than 500hp your full of shit. Thats why theres stock block hondas and nissans running 8's with 600+hp b16's, b18's h22's, nissans sr20det's with well over 500hp running 8's. There are some imports running over 800hp on the stock block and crank, you under estimate imports but there potential is insane. Hell theres a 600hp b18running off of the stock crank and head. Im not going to say that mopars suck because they dont and i have seen some really fast early 90's dodge cars. For the same price or less you can get an import that runs faster. Before you start claiming BS i suggest you go look at a d-sport mag, or honda-tech because all of this is fact not something i just made up.

If you want me to believe you then post up some hard proof. I don't have time to go looking for it. Also, I never said that import engines can't go more than 500 HP. I was saying that there isn't a stock Honda engine that can. You would have to sleeve it, change the rods, change the pistons, and in some cases the crank as well. What my point was that the common block you will find in my car and most any other Turbo Mopar will handle about 500 HP dead stock. I know import engines can handle power, I'm not a tool. I also know that import engines can handle a lot dead stock like the RB26DETT or the 2JZGTE. My comments were targeted only at Honda engines. Also, I know about power to weight ratio. You would have to show me dyno slips, 1/4 mile slips, and the actual weight of the car.

Heres one all motor that has about 230hp estimated
http://members.cox.net/bella1006/vids/2nd%20Pass%2012.10%20@%20114.wmv

heres another that runs 12.1's
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2041599

Barely had enough time to get a good amount but heres a few il look tommorow after school.

http://www.superhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110074

Look down to ED9Hybrids time 302hp ran 11.83 on stock internals.

As for the block needing to be sleeved and everything theres a 600whp b18 in this months issue of dsport, stock crank, stock heads, car runs 9's. Im glad to see that someone else other than an import driver can see that an import can handle high hp. All the domestic v8 guys claim bs when i told them about the 1100hp 300ztt with NO2. Il look around tommorow and find some more info for you.

Pimp I think your not right. First of all how can the car from car domain run a 12.1 when it he says it does 0-60 in 6.7 seconds? You would need a good diff., plus some very sticky tires, and a very steep gearing ratio at the least. Not to mention with any of the mentioned, he wouldn't be doing a 6.7 0-60 (it would be much better). Thats a power to weight ratio of 8.46lbs per horsepower (for that particular CRX). An 02 Z06 has a power to weight ratio of approx. 7.78 lbs per horsepower, and it runs mid to high 12s on the average.

Im with Polygon on this one, and im pulling, Yes thats right im pulling the :aus: .... oops wrong one :lol: . Thats right I mean the bs Flag. :lol2:

eh, australia....Bullshit.....same thing :p ....no offense to my boomarang throwering friends :biggrin:

Corvettes are also over engineered for there purpose. Also that motor in the crx is a VTEC so it falls on its face below 5500rpm above that it can pull that little ass car with now problem. Remember that motor revs up to 8000rpm +. There are some fast ass crx's beating vettes, mustangs and even vipers with less than 400hp. And i did misinterpret this but its between 250 and 325 that the car can run 11's it also depends on the gearbox, whether its N/A or turbo and whether or not the car has been lightened. There are to many variables to claim that the car can run 11's with 275 hp but there are cars running 11.84 with 240hp it can also depend on the driver. Also remember that the crx is front wheel drive its motor, tranny, axles and tires you dont have to put the power throgh to sets of gears "tranny and rear" to get the power to the ground. I wasnt saying that put this in the car and it can run this it also depends on what else you have done and whether or not you can drive. Oh yeah by the way i work in a fucking race shop mainly for domestics and we put the first vette into the 10's with a magnuson supercharger.

wait a minute.
why hasn't anyone pointed out that 12.1 and 11.83 ISN'T high to mid 10s?

eh, australia....Bullshit.....same thing :p ....no offense to my boomarang throwering friends :biggrin:

:lol: Yes! Lets not let the Assuie bikergang know about this one :biggrin:

Drunken this about whether or not a crx can run run 11's with 275 hp. The 10sec crx was a different thing. The thing is that people dont realize its not always the power that matters. Look at a lotus elise 190hp mid to low 13's and it weighs about 100lbs less than a crx. If this is the case then why cant a 275 hp car that weighs 2200lbs pull an 11.99 out of its ass. Its not physics, granted there are to many variables to determine whether or not it will always work the same, but this has been done and can be done. Theres proof all over the net you just have to know where to look and i dont have the time to look around.

Drunken this about whether or not a crx can run run 11's with 275 hp. The 10sec crx was a different thing.

but you said that you could do a $3000 honda in mid-10 secs; later revised to $5000
so first of all, give an example of a typical mid-10 sec honda; then let us know how much it costs.

Yeah i did revise it but 5k also includes the cost off the car, motor/trans and the turbo. Now let me start with this, you can get a used crx in decent condition for about $500, you can a get a d16 motor SOHC VTEC for about 300-750 depending on how you get it and who you buy it from. Turbo on ebay can be from 200+, doesnt even have to be a big turbo. Ok now for internalls bearings about 150, stroker kit for the motor can run between 750-1100, that can bump the motor from the 1.6 to a 1.8(could go 2.0 but you need low compression for turbo). So far thats about 2050 and you have a 1.8 with a new crank, pistons, connecting rods, rings and you can put the car into the high 13's low 14's (havent put the turbo on yet).

Lets continue with this, now you need sleeves they can run for about 250-500 for a complete set and some companys will give a deal if you buy the stroker kit with it ( oh yeah polygon one thing i forgot to mention, almost every honda has an aluminum block and head so you would need to replace the factory sleeves anyways). Now we can finish the block with a block saver, cant remember the exact cost off this my friend picked one up for about 100. Now you have a fully built bottom end, a car, turbo and motor for about 2550.

Now for the head, you can use stock valves, springs, and retainers but you can get a full set for about 250-400(not titanium). Ok now we can go the cam, street/strip cam for about 250-350 depending on brand, also another interesting thing on honda there SOHC cam engines have 16 valves, not 8 like most of the other manufacturers SOHC engines. Now for intake and turbo manifold you can make an intake if you have the experience and equipment (not really that hard until you get into the actual airflow regarding runner length, plenum depth and radius on the interior of the plenum) or they can be between 200-500. Turbo manifold you can get a manifold from the 93-95 civic (not ex) they have a manifold with cat built into the manifold if you slightly modify it they can be used as a turbo manifold, or you can go buy one for about 250-400. Now for the exhaust you can be lazy and go buy a turbo exhaust for about 500, or you go buy sections of bent, and straight tube for about 80 (my friend used 3 180 bends and 3 4' straight pieces then he cut the angle from the 180 to get his exhaust). Now for a muffler you can get just a weld on muffler whether its greddy, tanabe whatever for about 150-300.

Now for the tranny you dont need much stock axles can handle up to 350hp+ seen almost 450 on them and the stock tranny can handle close 400. New clutch will cost you about 300-500 for a stage 1-2, lets say you want the better tranny or better yet you can use the case just buy some race gears and rebuild it, can cost between 300-500 for a complete rebuild kit. Now thats about $4400 more than enough for the last items needed you need aluminum tubes to rought the turbo to the intake, tubes can get expensive but working in a metal shop and the fact you can get a full turbo pipe kit and intercooler off of ebay for about 300 helps out alot. Now for the bov about 150 for a decent one dont want the back pressure to go back into the turbo. Now that should be about 4900, unless i screwed up somewhere. This motor is capable of runninf about 1.5-2 bar or about 20-30psi, not saying its a good idea for street use but it can be used. You can get these things cheaper than this if you either know some people buy it used from friends, or you can use ebay. Anothr thing that can help is that junkyards have some amazing parts if you know where to look, theres one down here called crazy rays we got the turbos off of a 94 300ztt for $80, they where in great condition and they where cheap. So it can be done cheaper and it can be done for more like i put down some of the stuff you dont even need but some people dont like the idea of something breaking.

So, what you're saying is that if you by some miracle found a good CRX for $500, which I think is a long shot, and if you know a guy that knows a guy that knows a guy that steals shit you can get an engine for cheap, and that if you bought a cheap ass pile of shit turbo off eBay, and if you did everything else half assed you could get the car in the 10s for $5,000. Alright, where did traction fit into your budget? I don't see you doing 10s on street tires in a front wheel drive car. Second, any jackass can make a car do 10s for cheap if they do it half assed but the car isn't going to last and you might eng up killing yourself. You had no mention of any safety equipment either like a roll cage, chassis bracing, racing harnesses or even a damn fire extinguisher. You're building a damn death trap.

I guess I shouldn't have said that it is impossible, because I can take a stock Toyota Corolla and run a 200 shot of N2O and make it scream but the engine will be toast when I'm done. I guess it can be done, but it won't last for shit and it would be a death trap to boot.

(Oh yeah polygon one thing i forgot to mention, almost every honda has an aluminum block and head so you would need to replace the factory sleeves anyways).

That is what I have been trying to get through your thick scull. Honda did not design these engines with performance in mind. They are weak engines.

Open decks are for pussies!

Hell i didint say it would be safe and i can pick up shit from some of my friends. One of my friends bought a b16a from an integra xsi for $400, normally between 1000-1500 depending on where you go, (it does help to know crackheads). As for the turbo you can get them from a junkyard for like $40 and rebuild it for about 100 i picked up one from a mr2 turbo for free because my friend was upgrading. Hey open decks might be for pussies but they can handle 600+hp on the stock block. I know you cant make a drag car for under 5k but can get a car into the 10's with it i nevr said it would last for 100,000 miles, or that you couldnt die from smacking a phone pole doing a buck 20 but it can be done.

Yes, it can be done, but the way you're explaining it is you would have to have some connections to make it happen for that cheap. It is possible, but it isn't probable.

Yeah il agree with that it can be done but not anyone or everyone could do it.

Wow!

We had a discussion with two very opposing views end without a flame war!!!!

Yeah usually by the second post i have someone at my throat because some stupid ass reason. I have had people call me white rich prep boy, 12 year old with no friends, and some really retarded ass things. Im glad we could get through a discussion without attacking each other personally. Besides all that flame wars are annoying and pretty much have no purpose but for one person to make themselves feel like there bigger or better than the other. Hell im glad we could agree on our views without resorting to that.

pimprolla and polygon are both stupid heads!!!

What the hell was that. That your pontiac in your sig, looks nice.

pimprolla and polygon are both stupid heads!!!

Oh yeah, we'll see about that when I get out my ban stick you big wiener!

if you want a good power to weight ratio just get a damn crotch rocket.

Yeah and the 10.sec crx with no rollcage was a death trap. By the way my friend almost died the other night wrecked his bike broke both of his arms and was in intensive care for 2 days, he wasnt even driving stupid yeah just get a crotch rocket. I would take damn harley over a rice rocket, most of the drivers are assholes weaving in and out of traffic and stunting down the road act stupid in a car not on 2 wheels. Nothing against them but you wonder why so many people wreck tham.

either that or you can wait for the new lotus elise cant remember the special name for it but its going to wiegh less than 1300lbs that with 190hp=a fast ass car. Oh yeah theres other options ttsupra, tt300zx, rb26dett swap 240sx(this could be had for pretty cheap car for 1000 and you can get the motor for 2500 with trans, ecu and axles and that would be a fast ass car.

i dont see how they can get a car that light. have to be gutted completeley. would suck to drive around in.

Yeah it would suck to drive a car that would be gutted. Heres a link to the specific model i seen it in sport compact car.
http://www.elises.co.uk/models/s2_circuit/index.html

http://www.elises.co.uk/models/s2_circuit/Image.jpg

Granted its a circuit car it looks as if its legal for the UK, 600kg=1320lbs, that paired with the n/a or s/c application this car should be a fast little bitch.

Predicted Performance figures:
Naturally Aspirated VVTL-i Engine:
0 to 60 mph 4 seconds (approx.)
0 to 100 mph < 11 seconds
Supercharged VVTL-i Engine:
0 to 60 mph 3.5 seconds (approx.)
0 to 100 mph < 9.0 seconds

What a crazy thread. Pimp, you forgot about fuel, and also tuning. A radiator would be a definate, plus about every other cooler you can think of. Ignition (full), cpu...... new lines (especially from and old peice of crap). Racing fuel, and lots more tunning, etc, etc. Biggest of all as Polygon said, traction. Of coarse this is if you want it to last you at least for a little while. One of my good friends has built a Nissan 240 with an SR20 ($1400 motor), and he has a bit over 20k invested. Best his car has done was low 11s (traction limited even with 315s!). Mind you its not a drag car, its better suited on a track. He still spends more time working on the car than driving it. It is also stripped of all weight straight to the metal. You can see the motor in the drivers seat.

Like it matters though. My bike is still faster and more reliable with way better milage :p . If you want cheap speed, buy a bike. After that, all cars are slow.

prelude