good awd for starters
Speed Racer
07-17-2005, 06:20 PM
i searched and couldnt find anyting on this site for it. so here it is.
wat is a relatively good awd car for a starter car?
lets say $10,000 limit, just starting to drive, intersted in rally, auto x, and track racing. the car will be used as an everyday car: school, job, driving, u kno wat i'm gettin at. lives in the USA, as some great cars arent on the market here.
well there u go. have at it. peace.
wat is a relatively good awd car for a starter car?
lets say $10,000 limit, just starting to drive, intersted in rally, auto x, and track racing. the car will be used as an everyday car: school, job, driving, u kno wat i'm gettin at. lives in the USA, as some great cars arent on the market here.
well there u go. have at it. peace.
BlackGT2000
07-17-2005, 07:27 PM
Find the best subaru you can.
BlackGT2000
07-17-2005, 07:27 PM
Or a Talon or eclipse
k3smostwanted
07-17-2005, 07:37 PM
i searched and couldnt find anyting on this site for it. so here it is.
wat is a relatively good awd car for a starter car?
lets say $10,000 limit, just starting to drive, intersted in rally, auto x, and track racing. the car will be used as an everyday car: school, job, driving, u kno wat i'm gettin at. lives in the USA, as some great cars arent on the market here.
well there u go. have at it. peace.
a used subaru would be a good choice...an older Impreza. im pretty sure pre-01's are going for less than $10k but i dont think they are turbocharged (this could be better beings turbocharged cars are usually more temperamental). also, this would make a demon of a track car if built up a little. it could possibly give you alot of extra money to play around with also. this would probably be one of my top choices...the only problem i see is that it is hideous. :D
maybe a celica all-trac but you should have alot of money left over (with a budget of $10k)if you were to buy that...and i am pretty sure the 94-99 models were not offered with AWD to the US.
A VR4 could be a choice but i dont think it would be a good car for you to take to a track often and then drive it on a daily basis. you will probably run into problems. not to mention the fact that it would be WAY to powerful to be considered a "starter" car.
i cant thin of anything else off of the top of my head but im sure soemone else will be able to offer some more.
ahh...i didnt see your post "BlackGT2000"...i forgot all about the talon or eclipse. these are very common for problems and i probably wouldnt recommend them for track use...its a good car but finding one thats been taken care of is another problem. and track use will only hinder the problemsome AWD system even more...
wat is a relatively good awd car for a starter car?
lets say $10,000 limit, just starting to drive, intersted in rally, auto x, and track racing. the car will be used as an everyday car: school, job, driving, u kno wat i'm gettin at. lives in the USA, as some great cars arent on the market here.
well there u go. have at it. peace.
a used subaru would be a good choice...an older Impreza. im pretty sure pre-01's are going for less than $10k but i dont think they are turbocharged (this could be better beings turbocharged cars are usually more temperamental). also, this would make a demon of a track car if built up a little. it could possibly give you alot of extra money to play around with also. this would probably be one of my top choices...the only problem i see is that it is hideous. :D
maybe a celica all-trac but you should have alot of money left over (with a budget of $10k)if you were to buy that...and i am pretty sure the 94-99 models were not offered with AWD to the US.
A VR4 could be a choice but i dont think it would be a good car for you to take to a track often and then drive it on a daily basis. you will probably run into problems. not to mention the fact that it would be WAY to powerful to be considered a "starter" car.
i cant thin of anything else off of the top of my head but im sure soemone else will be able to offer some more.
ahh...i didnt see your post "BlackGT2000"...i forgot all about the talon or eclipse. these are very common for problems and i probably wouldnt recommend them for track use...its a good car but finding one thats been taken care of is another problem. and track use will only hinder the problemsome AWD system even more...
BlackGT2000
07-17-2005, 08:19 PM
Haha yeah K3 it was an after thought for me as well. As soon as I think of AWD Subaru is the first thing to come to mind (guess all their comercials worked) I agree though they aren't what I would call a looker. The DSM's do tend to be riddled with problems anymore, but they can be quick.
k3smostwanted
07-17-2005, 10:01 PM
Haha yeah K3 it was an after thought for me as well. As soon as I think of AWD Subaru is the first thing to come to mind (guess all their comercials worked) I agree though they aren't what I would call a looker. The DSM's do tend to be riddled with problems anymore, but they can be quick.
the new subarus look very nice and luxury based, with the exception of the WRX. i think subaru has made good progress in creating much better quality cars and they definitely seem to be making a move towards becoming a player in the car market...i just wish the american market would further support such a great japanese manufacturer. instead it is overshadowed by other manufacturers that arent making such a good product.
but yes the old subaru Imprezas are definitely not something to stare at too long...but the 2.5L can be made into a awesome track motor.
as for DSM's beign quick.,..yes they can be but i wouldnt trust one to be my track/daily driver car. thast asking a little too much...
another car that just came to mind are the Audi A4's...the older ones can be picked up for well under $10k and can be an awesome rally car. the 1.8L Turbo motor can be easily modified into some serious power ranges and teh AWD system is another great one. Volkswagen obviously offers the same drivetrain i one of their own cars...so maybe this could be an option.
the new subarus look very nice and luxury based, with the exception of the WRX. i think subaru has made good progress in creating much better quality cars and they definitely seem to be making a move towards becoming a player in the car market...i just wish the american market would further support such a great japanese manufacturer. instead it is overshadowed by other manufacturers that arent making such a good product.
but yes the old subaru Imprezas are definitely not something to stare at too long...but the 2.5L can be made into a awesome track motor.
as for DSM's beign quick.,..yes they can be but i wouldnt trust one to be my track/daily driver car. thast asking a little too much...
another car that just came to mind are the Audi A4's...the older ones can be picked up for well under $10k and can be an awesome rally car. the 1.8L Turbo motor can be easily modified into some serious power ranges and teh AWD system is another great one. Volkswagen obviously offers the same drivetrain i one of their own cars...so maybe this could be an option.
BlackGT2000
07-17-2005, 10:27 PM
I have a friend back home with an awesome A4, I do really like that car, maybe I was quick in assuming it was out of the price range here. Subaru definately has come a long way in the last 10 years. I definately like that they are all AWD. Thats a pretty substantial standard option in my opinion, especially across a whole brand not just one model.
Zachp911
07-17-2005, 10:31 PM
What about a used VW R32? :grinyes:
BlackGT2000
07-17-2005, 10:43 PM
You can't get them for 10,000 yet can you?
VAD0R
07-18-2005, 01:22 AM
May I also suggest the Subaru SVX as well. I guess I'm a bit biased towards that car considering I drive one.:biggrin:
Anyway, I guess I'll run you through the whole deal that it is a 230hp 3.3l H6 powered luxury coupe, but not only considering it is a 3500lb (or 3800lb for 1995-97, except for FWD models which are of course lighter but came at 1994. Sure the 0-60 times may be sluggish at 7.6 seconds or a bit higher for 94 and beyond (except for the FWD which surprisingly enough still have a lower 1/4 mile compared to its early years AWD counterparts), as well as a decent 1/4 mile time in the 15s. But the real fun about this car is its mid (about 40mph) to high-end punch (with people usually getting up to 155mph, with one person on the Autobahn reaching 175mph). The SVX also has great handling for what people call a heavy car. Sure, even though magazines have managed to pull .89gs off of it most people have pulled .84, but if you swap in JDM suspension or better yet the KONI kit (which is one of the few suspension kits around for the SVX) the g’forces the car can hold while turning will rise.
Which brings me to another thing, there are not that many aftermarket parts for the SVX, except for brake discs since its size is not too unusual so you can probably find a good pair for a decent price (probably even cheaper then buying stock, for reasons that include this car being pretty rare, hence its limited aftermarket). Some Nissan parts such as Nismo fuel injectors are even fit compatibly with the SVX as well. If you want to look or even buy what there is for the SVX go here (http://store.yahoo.com/svx-motorsport-accessories/) as well as here (http://www.ecutune.com/), here (http://www.stebro.net/svx.htm) and also PWR recently came out with an all aluminum radiator. Not to mention tuning up your transmission at Level 10 (http://www.levelten.com/store/import/packages/parts_subaru.htm) as well as other transmission shops.
This page (http://www.cars101.com/subaru_svx.html) includes the complete specifications on performance as well as packaging for all model years for the SVX as well as some other tid bits about it. But it doesn't say how much an SVX can be had for these days which can be as low as $2500 and up to perhaps $8400 for a late model which is in really good condition, but most average between $4400 to $7500.
The SVX's engine is also pretty strong and can last with some people even getting over 200k miles on it. Of course the SVX doesn't come with its own fare share of problems, one of them if you look on the specs webpage I linked includes the fact that it only came with a 4 speed automatic. This 4-speed also has really tall gearing (a 3.54 gear ratio) which means you don't reach 2nd until about 35-40mph and 4th until 110. Also when you drive with the SVX casually it shifts slowly and more smoothly and then goes into a harder shifting sport mode when you floor it (there is a kit which does put it into a constant hard shifting mode though). This sort of thing might be comfortable for the daily compute but the friction that builds up not only from the slow shifting but also from the lack of much shifting is a torture on the tranny. This is why you have to be careful to look for tranny problems in most SVXs with over 100k miles. This problem can be deterred by either installing a $50 transmission cooler, get the PWR radiator or even install a new transmission if the current one is broken. Now there is more then just the stock tranny to select from which include any Legacy auto from the 92-97 (which have shorter gears so heating shouldn't be an issue, as well as manual trannies from any Subaru from the Legacy, Forester, WRX as well as WRX STi since they are all basically the same (except for the STi since its a 6-speed but has been fitted on an SVX and the Forester to an extent since it uses stronger gears). However you should keep the carrier gear or the farthest back gear of the SVX transmission since the SVX is the only Subaru to have a rear LSD. There are also other problems to look for within SVXs that have been driven allot or thrashed around a bit which include bad rear ball bearings (which you can tell if you hear some squealing every now and then while driving around) and uneven discs plus brake pads.
But for its cons it also has its far share of perks. The SVX might not be a great drag racer, with some tuner it will be a comparable auto-xer and a joy at the track as well as on almost any windy road, at a great price as well if you can find one of course.
If you have any other questions there is also a good forum (http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/) filled with users who are dedicated SVX owners or at least know their stuff about the car, but not too fanatical (at least most of them).:cool:
Anyway, I guess I'll run you through the whole deal that it is a 230hp 3.3l H6 powered luxury coupe, but not only considering it is a 3500lb (or 3800lb for 1995-97, except for FWD models which are of course lighter but came at 1994. Sure the 0-60 times may be sluggish at 7.6 seconds or a bit higher for 94 and beyond (except for the FWD which surprisingly enough still have a lower 1/4 mile compared to its early years AWD counterparts), as well as a decent 1/4 mile time in the 15s. But the real fun about this car is its mid (about 40mph) to high-end punch (with people usually getting up to 155mph, with one person on the Autobahn reaching 175mph). The SVX also has great handling for what people call a heavy car. Sure, even though magazines have managed to pull .89gs off of it most people have pulled .84, but if you swap in JDM suspension or better yet the KONI kit (which is one of the few suspension kits around for the SVX) the g’forces the car can hold while turning will rise.
Which brings me to another thing, there are not that many aftermarket parts for the SVX, except for brake discs since its size is not too unusual so you can probably find a good pair for a decent price (probably even cheaper then buying stock, for reasons that include this car being pretty rare, hence its limited aftermarket). Some Nissan parts such as Nismo fuel injectors are even fit compatibly with the SVX as well. If you want to look or even buy what there is for the SVX go here (http://store.yahoo.com/svx-motorsport-accessories/) as well as here (http://www.ecutune.com/), here (http://www.stebro.net/svx.htm) and also PWR recently came out with an all aluminum radiator. Not to mention tuning up your transmission at Level 10 (http://www.levelten.com/store/import/packages/parts_subaru.htm) as well as other transmission shops.
This page (http://www.cars101.com/subaru_svx.html) includes the complete specifications on performance as well as packaging for all model years for the SVX as well as some other tid bits about it. But it doesn't say how much an SVX can be had for these days which can be as low as $2500 and up to perhaps $8400 for a late model which is in really good condition, but most average between $4400 to $7500.
The SVX's engine is also pretty strong and can last with some people even getting over 200k miles on it. Of course the SVX doesn't come with its own fare share of problems, one of them if you look on the specs webpage I linked includes the fact that it only came with a 4 speed automatic. This 4-speed also has really tall gearing (a 3.54 gear ratio) which means you don't reach 2nd until about 35-40mph and 4th until 110. Also when you drive with the SVX casually it shifts slowly and more smoothly and then goes into a harder shifting sport mode when you floor it (there is a kit which does put it into a constant hard shifting mode though). This sort of thing might be comfortable for the daily compute but the friction that builds up not only from the slow shifting but also from the lack of much shifting is a torture on the tranny. This is why you have to be careful to look for tranny problems in most SVXs with over 100k miles. This problem can be deterred by either installing a $50 transmission cooler, get the PWR radiator or even install a new transmission if the current one is broken. Now there is more then just the stock tranny to select from which include any Legacy auto from the 92-97 (which have shorter gears so heating shouldn't be an issue, as well as manual trannies from any Subaru from the Legacy, Forester, WRX as well as WRX STi since they are all basically the same (except for the STi since its a 6-speed but has been fitted on an SVX and the Forester to an extent since it uses stronger gears). However you should keep the carrier gear or the farthest back gear of the SVX transmission since the SVX is the only Subaru to have a rear LSD. There are also other problems to look for within SVXs that have been driven allot or thrashed around a bit which include bad rear ball bearings (which you can tell if you hear some squealing every now and then while driving around) and uneven discs plus brake pads.
But for its cons it also has its far share of perks. The SVX might not be a great drag racer, with some tuner it will be a comparable auto-xer and a joy at the track as well as on almost any windy road, at a great price as well if you can find one of course.
If you have any other questions there is also a good forum (http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/) filled with users who are dedicated SVX owners or at least know their stuff about the car, but not too fanatical (at least most of them).:cool:
kman10587
07-18-2005, 03:15 AM
If you can't find a good '97-'01 Impreza 2.5 RS, you might wanna look into a gently used '03-'04 Suzuki Aerio SX. They are cheap and reliable, and have a pretty good AWD system. It's only got 140 horsepower, so it's a rather leisurely drag racer, but this also means it's good on gas, easy to learn on, and the AWD system is less likely to break down under hard driving.
jcsaleen
07-18-2005, 05:13 PM
Talon turbo awd or a 96+ Subaru 2.5 Rs.
Speed Racer
07-18-2005, 07:06 PM
thanks for hitting me back guys. those sound like really sweet cars and i've been looking into them and comparing. they all looks sweet, plus i also found some others while i was researching them. wat do u guys think of:
audi a3 (found a pic and that was all)
celica gt-4 (friends talks boutthis car alot, idk anything about it tho)
volkswagen beetle (told there is an AWD version, but dont have any info on it)
well hit me back soon, and thanks again. peace.
audi a3 (found a pic and that was all)
celica gt-4 (friends talks boutthis car alot, idk anything about it tho)
volkswagen beetle (told there is an AWD version, but dont have any info on it)
well hit me back soon, and thanks again. peace.
k3smostwanted
07-18-2005, 09:03 PM
celica gt-4 (friends talks boutthis car alot, idk anything about it tho)
the celica is an awesome car but if you pay anywhere near $10k...you are getting totally ripped. they will be harder to find in good condition as they are somewhat of a rarity.
the celica is an awesome car but if you pay anywhere near $10k...you are getting totally ripped. they will be harder to find in good condition as they are somewhat of a rarity.
Yaggus
07-30-2005, 07:59 AM
Oh hell yes. Celica GT4's are awesome cars. Same engine as the MR2 turbo and same panels from the normal 1990-1994 Celica. Mods are easy to get because its the same engine as the MR2 turbo.
Of course im biased when i say this but I think they are one hot car. The hood with the bonnet scoop and the vents.... :sunglasse mmmm tasty.
I cant recomend this car enough :grinyes:
Of course im biased when i say this but I think they are one hot car. The hood with the bonnet scoop and the vents.... :sunglasse mmmm tasty.
I cant recomend this car enough :grinyes:
King Of Crunk
07-30-2005, 02:16 PM
buy a nice 1st gen. eclipse GSX for 3k + 7k in mods = 11 second car.....*nods spaztically*...that's how you should spend your 10 grand....but that's just me....
k3smostwanted
07-30-2005, 04:49 PM
buy a nice 1st gen. eclipse GSX for 3k + 7k in mods = 11 second car.....*nods spaztically*...that's how you should spend your 10 grand....but that's just me....
i dont think a 15 year old eclipse with $7k in mods will be very reliable, especially when they are plagued with problems in stock form.
i dont think a 15 year old eclipse with $7k in mods will be very reliable, especially when they are plagued with problems in stock form.
King Of Crunk
07-30-2005, 06:36 PM
i dont think a 15 year old eclipse with $7k in mods will be very reliable, especially when they are plagued with problems in stock form.
Sheesh, people always gotta be logical.. :rolleyes: .... :lol2: ....okay...2nd gen eclipse gsx with 5k mods low 12 second car....hehe...i'm on the dsm kick because they're SO easy to mod... :smile: ....but honestly i think that the newer 3000gts are BEAUTIFUL cars...if i were you i would get me one of those, they run mid 13s stock, and if you just get your self a blow off valve, boost controller, and a chip you're haulin ass.. :sunglasse....i think i contradicted myself right there.....oh well... :loser:
Sheesh, people always gotta be logical.. :rolleyes: .... :lol2: ....okay...2nd gen eclipse gsx with 5k mods low 12 second car....hehe...i'm on the dsm kick because they're SO easy to mod... :smile: ....but honestly i think that the newer 3000gts are BEAUTIFUL cars...if i were you i would get me one of those, they run mid 13s stock, and if you just get your self a blow off valve, boost controller, and a chip you're haulin ass.. :sunglasse....i think i contradicted myself right there.....oh well... :loser:
kman10587
07-31-2005, 01:44 PM
If you have a good knowledge of how to, and like to work on your car a lot, the DSM is very cheap and very fast. But if you have to get work done for you, it gets pretty expensive.
I still stand by the '93-'01 Subaru Impreza.
I still stand by the '93-'01 Subaru Impreza.
NISSANSPDR
08-13-2005, 05:39 AM
Toyota Celica All-Trac
Mazda 323 GTX
Audi Quattro
Mazda 323 GTX
Audi Quattro
VAD0R
08-13-2005, 06:12 AM
If you find an Audi Quattro that is in good condition, good trying to find an owner who is willing to give his or her's up.:lol:
If you want a really easy going 4wd starter there you can always get a used Toyota Matrix XR or Pontiac Vibe AWD. If you want something allot cheaper you can try to find a Corolla All-Trac or Civic Wagon 4wd that is in good condition.
If you want a cheap car that is turbocharged and comes with a shifter you can try to find a early 90s 93 Legacy GT or Galant VR4.
There is also the mid 90s Galant VR4 which would be probably in better condition but might not be as fast but a more plush interior and definitley more expensive.
There is also the mid 90s Legacy GT with the NA 2.5l DOHC H4 as oposed to the turbocharged 2.2l SOHC which was in production until 1993.
And then if you have a pention for, bigger more luxurious sedans there is always the Mitsubishi Diamante VR-X. The early 90s models until 1997 have a 3kgt sized 3.0l V6 while 97 up until the last year it was sold in the US, which I think is 2000, have a 3.5l.
But if you want a good sporty AWD coupe that comes with a manual transmission the Impreza RS or Celica AllTrac would probably be a good choice. It would be just flat out hard to find a Mazda 323 GTX.
If you want a really easy going 4wd starter there you can always get a used Toyota Matrix XR or Pontiac Vibe AWD. If you want something allot cheaper you can try to find a Corolla All-Trac or Civic Wagon 4wd that is in good condition.
If you want a cheap car that is turbocharged and comes with a shifter you can try to find a early 90s 93 Legacy GT or Galant VR4.
There is also the mid 90s Galant VR4 which would be probably in better condition but might not be as fast but a more plush interior and definitley more expensive.
There is also the mid 90s Legacy GT with the NA 2.5l DOHC H4 as oposed to the turbocharged 2.2l SOHC which was in production until 1993.
And then if you have a pention for, bigger more luxurious sedans there is always the Mitsubishi Diamante VR-X. The early 90s models until 1997 have a 3kgt sized 3.0l V6 while 97 up until the last year it was sold in the US, which I think is 2000, have a 3.5l.
But if you want a good sporty AWD coupe that comes with a manual transmission the Impreza RS or Celica AllTrac would probably be a good choice. It would be just flat out hard to find a Mazda 323 GTX.
G-man422
08-13-2005, 06:59 AM
corolla all-trac.
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