2001 windstar

i have a 3.8L with an engine noise.there is an intermittent knocking sound coming from the drivers side top of the engine just under the plenum.this mostly occurs after engine warmup i think because a cold engine revs to hi . in other words the noise occurs at engine idle (800 rpms) and fades out at 1100 rpms and higher. i can sometimes make this noise happen by tapping accelerator to say 1500 rpms and letting rpms quickly drop to idle and just befor idle a knocking sound occurs but not everytime.i've read some of the messages here in this forum about engine noise but they just don't seem to apply. my engine sounds fine from just off idle to redline, uses no oil,gets 22 mpg, lots of power whether at highway traveling or hill climbing under load. a mechanic friend of mine suggested starting with a fuel injector cleaner thinking it could be an injector but this did not help.could this be a hydrualic lifter? i recently changed oil and filter and again no improvement.lasty other than the noise there are no indications that anything is wrong such as warning light, performance etc...

Can you change/eliminate the knock by pressing down on the upper intake manifold?

If so, your isolator bolts may be failing, and you can look forward to CEL (MIL) codes P0171 and/or P0174. Not a huge repair job ... if that is the problem.

thanks 12Ounce that sounds simple enough to try.i'm going to look at my haynes manual to get an idea as to where these bolts are located and the next time this problem shows up i'll try it and let you know how i made out bus45.

The Isolator bolts are the ones that hold the upper intake manifold in place. You will want to buy the new and improved ones. There are a lot of posts on this forum about the TSB. Involves new bolts and gaskets.

Sounds like the baffle came loose inside the upper (plastic clamshell) intake. It will *rattle* from the intake pulsations creating a knock noise. From what i've read, a pretty common occurance on the 1999-2003 3.8L winnies. You might be able to RTV it back in place, or just replace the clam shell.
G/luck
Joel

Though I agree with putting a bit of RTV on the inner piece to make EXTRA sure it doesn't vibrate ... that's only a part of the story.

What's gotten loose is those things that "sandwich" this rattling inner piece between the "upper", the "spacer", and the "lower" ...and "those things" are the isolator bolts (and possibly the seals) that tie the "upper", "spacer" and the "lower" altogether.

Please include the replacement of the isolator bolts as part of the repair plan... if. indeed, the upper clam shell has a loose inner piece.

I have an 01 Windstar also and I am getting the same noise under the clam shell. I am not to sure what some of the bolts are that you are talking about. Can I pick up these things at an autoparts store? It seems like it is getting worse the longer I let it go. Will it be expensive to fix as well? :banghead:

I have an 01 Windstar also and I am getting the same noise under the clam shell. I am not to sure what some of the bolts are that you are talking about. Can I pick up these things at an autoparts store? It seems like it is getting worse the longer I let it go. Will it be expensive to fix as well? :banghead:
I have an 01 one with the same issues but I have only changed my pcv valve.LOL but know the good thing is we want have to replace the valve cover and you can check around for the isolator bolts but i will forward some info to to you.I pulled mine apart and cleaned it up a little just mainly looking around and the noise went a way. let me get my info so you can research it . Hold on. gary.

Do I have to replace the isolator bolts or can I just tighten them?

You will want to replace them.
FORD came out with improved bolts that will not fail like the originals do.
The link above is VERY informative....and should help you through the job...should you choose to do it yourself.

Where is the cheapest that can I get the bolts from? The cheapest I found is 6.99 each.

That ain't too bad. I think I paid $8 or so.

Where is the cheapest that can I get the bolts from? The cheapest I found is 6.99 each.
I am still looking for the site but I think they sold them in a pac.With all of them. It was a dealer out of florida. I lost those sites when my internet explorer crashed.If I find it I post back. Sorry..
Iwill tell you when i heard my noise I checked my bolts and they were snug so i left them alone for now.I just clean a little oil out of the intake and put it back together but I did push the seals around a little to make sure they were seated and the noise did go away.But again that is for now. gary

The bolts don't get "loose" in the normal sense of looseness. That is, there is nothing gained by retorqueing them.

What gets loose is the rubber-like cone that surrounds the bolt... and apparently oil helps to degrade the rubber, hence the Ford improved/newer bolts that are more oil resistant. Or so the story goes.

i've received lots of help with my post and continue to check new threads as they come in .i'm still a little awkward about using this site but i must say it is an awesome resource and to all the helpful forum members a big thank you. for now i'm living with this engine noise . i live up in maine and we have had quite a winter and its not over. i also have no garage of my own so needless to say i'm holding out for a little better weather unless i decide to have the work done. i'm no pro mechanic but i do like to tinker, sometimes for fun but mostly out of necessity plus i'm a bit anal about doing something the right way and when you pay good money for somethig and get shoddy workmanship well that riles me a little.i'm sure you all have been there. when i finally get this noise problem corrected i'll be sure and post the how to's . bus45.

These are great posts. I have a 2000 Windstar with the same "knocking" sound just above normal idle engine speed coming from that clamshell (no Check Engine light yet).

Last weekend I replaced the isolator bolts with the newer green-sleeved ones and the 6 port seals and cleaned up everything just like that link mentioned earlier in the posts (those were awesome directions). I noticed that the upper plastic (clamshell) piece had that loose baffle piece but I made sure it was snapped in and then reassembled. Of course when I started engine it was making the knocking noise instantly. That loose baffle must be the problem. I stopped by local dealer and they want $155 for that upper clamshell piece. I didn't purchase because I wasn't sure if that would even make the noise disappear.

I'm not a pro so I don't know what you mean by RTV? Is that like a sealant or silicone or? Would there be a chance that if I tried something like sealant to eliminate vibration that it might come loose and get pulled into the engine? Do I even need that baffle?

Thanks in advance for any help

dank
I wonder if the new upper clamshell the dealer was offering you had an "engineering upgrade"? If so, it might be worth buying.

Is the baffle needed? Darn good question. Want to do an experiment for the good of the "team"?

Its been so long ago when I did my intake repair, I forget many of the details. But I remember putting some pretty healthy sized RTV daubs on the top and bottom of that baffle ... just to help stop vibrations. A bit of cured RTV going through the combustion chamber didn't seem like a huge risk to me. One day I'm going to open the intake up again just to take a look.

Funny thing.............I just did the Isolator bolt repair on the weekend and I noticed that the upper was in 2 pieces. I never knew that. In fact I separated the two pieces to clean them. If this is causing the vibration then one of the 2 clips that holds the 2 pieces together must be broken. I would suspect that there are plenty of locations to use some RTV. if one had to. I also wonder if an epoxy might also do the trick. Is the upper made of ABS? Maybe ABS cement too.

Ok. I have a question. If replacing the isolator bolts doesn't fix the problem of the knocking what is the purpose of replacing the isolator bolts then? I mean if it is the baffle that is making the noise, then why spend all the money of changing the isolator bolts and just put some RTV on the baffle and call it a day? I mean I am not getting the check engine light so how do I even know that the isolator bolts are even bad? I am just tring to find a good answer. I mean everyone says change the bolts and it will fix the problem when in reality it doesn't.... I just want the noise to stop, and if the check engine does come on well then I will cross that bridge when it comes....

Thanks again for all the ideas and experiences. I just purchased a tube of Permatex RTV and I am going to go that route. I haven't checked the part at Ford to see if it had an engineering upgrade. I am going to take the cheap route for now and if the RTV doesn't stop the knocking, then I will look into a new part to see if that will work.

As far as whether or not that baffle piece is even needed, I would like to try it for the benefit of the forum, but the more I thought about it, it must be there for some reason. Maybe just noise... but it is also shaped for air flow. I think I am going to leave it in and just try and stop it from vibrating/rattling. Thanks again and I will post my next attempt.

Broddog,
You need to replace the isolator bolts to prevent / repair vaccum leaks. The new ones are supposed to be more resistant to breaking down from oil.

ALL,
The baffel noise......If you use an RTV sealant, etc.....make sure that it clearly states that it is SENSOR SAFE. There are a LOT of different RTV products out there......some are sensor safe, some are not.
The Oxygen sensors operate by a chemical reaction.......which generates a voltage.
Add another chemical to the mix......and you may be shopping for new oxygen sensors....

You could try visiting the website for the company that makes the product....Permatex has a good site... http://www.permatex.com/ and look for the appropriate product for your application.

To shop around for dealer parts on the internet......try www.parts.com
This will get you to listings of dealerships that sell on the internet.....and you might be able to save some money.

I finally pulled my 2000 Windstar 3.8 L apart again this weekend and cleaned up the underside of the clamshell and the baffle with brake cleaner. I used Permatex sensor safe, high temp RTV and ran beads in the grooves where the edges of the baffle fit. It is quiet now! I will be traveling 1500 miles this weekend so that will be a good test (and quiet one). Even though the clips that hold the baffle in were latched, it was still loose. I guess vibration during the 86,000 miles caused this. It is tight now with the RTV.

I haven't seen part numbers posted here for the clamshell or baffle so I thought I'd get them while it was apart (even though I don't plan to order anything now):

This number was on the upper clamshell: XF 2E 9424CD
These numbers were on the baffle piece: PA6 GF35 or PAG GF35 and M738E

I don't know if anyone has use for these but I'd just like to contribute.
I also snapped some photos while it was apart (I am not a pro photographer):
http://dankuester.home.comcast.net/baffle.jpg
http://dankuester.home.comcast.net/baffle_removed.jpg
http://dankuester.home.comcast.net/both_pieces.jpg

Thanks again for all the ideas, experiences. I saved a lot of money with this forum.

dank
Thanks for the photos and reinforcing the RTV theory. My "RTV repair" now has about 70k miles on it.. but unfortunately I do not have the upgraded isolator bolts, so someday I'm gonna have to "go back in".

Keep us posted.

I have a 1995 Ford Windstar that is making a very loud noise coming from the motor on the passengers side. The van runs/drives and shifts great. Any suggestions is appreciated.

Dennisk -

Welcome to the forum!

This is a 15 year old thread - so it might be best to start a new discussion.

And - of course - your van is now 25 years old, so we're going to need to know more than "a very loud noise" on the passenger side.

Some quick thoughts:

- Does the noise happen whenever the engine is running - or only when driving?
- Does the noise change when other things happen in the van (changing gears, applying brakes, etc.)?
- If you open the hood and listen carefully while near the engine, can you narrow down exactly where the noise is coming from?

I'm sure there are many other questions that will make sense when trying to track this down - but this will get us started.

1996 Ford Windstar. Rattling at top of engine on passenger side. Does not affect the performance. No white smoke from exhaust. Doesn't matter if engine is hot or cold. Sounds like a rattling/vibration type noise.

In 1996, Ford offered two engines for the Windstar in the US: The 3.0l V6 and the 3.8l V6. Which engine does your van have?

One quick follow-up, presuming you have the 3.8l V6: The intake plenum "knocking" noise discussed earlier in this thread, caused by a loose baffle, is specific to the 1999 and later Windstar 3.8l V6 engines. Ford introduced the "clamshell" intake plenum design for model year 1999, which includes the potentially-rattling baffle. As I understand it, this design was *not* used in the 1996 3.8l V6 Windstars. Please confirm with your own research, but I don't believe the rattle you're hearing is related to the intake plenum problem discussed above.

I will note that I did the infamous isolator bolt fix many years ago on my '00 3.8l V6 Windstar, and my baffle looked fine, so I did not add RTV, as some did in this thread. The van is still in use at something like 205K miles; still running well.

There lots of moving parts on the passenger side. You need to find the source of the noise. I like to isolate the source of a rattle by using either a long hose (one end on the ear, the other end moved around to find the source) or a sound absorbing shield (like a piece of drywall, acoustic ceiling tile, or even cardboard) Locating the source will help tremendously. My automotive stethoscope works really well if I remove the transducer from the hose. I can listen through the hose while I move the open hose end arroud.

One test that you can do....but only do it for a moment.
I would have a person to start the engine if you want to be outside the vehicle to see.....
Or you can start it, listen for a few seconds and shut it down, without exiting the driver's seat.

Release the serpentine belt........and start the engine for only a couple seconds.

If no noise, it is likely of the many things driven by the serpentine belt.

If you still get the sounds, then it is not one of the things driven by the serpentine belt.

If it is something driven by the serpentine belt......don't forget the 2 idler pulleys, which can become noisy. I have been down that road. I had one that was fine when spun by hand, but load it up and run it, it was a whole different story.
There is 1 pully on the tensioner and one that is mounted to the front of the engine.
It is the bearings that went on mine (both eventually went).

Again, you don't want to run the engine for any length of time with the serpentine belt off as you have no water flow to cool the engine.