new nitrous sytem

hello all

well im new to this fourm and thought id post about somthing im working on. but first let me give you a little history. ive been into shade tree preformance mods and tuning for over 5 years now and upon installing a new zex nitrous kit on to my monte carlo i relized that the stock performance gains while impressive didnt justife the on going cost of filling my bottle ( 47 dollars for my 10lb bottle). so i invented a new way to do it.

ideal in a nut shell..


supercool atmospheric air into a liquid form and inject it into a motor same as nitrous.

how it was done..

over two years working on my own. i aquired a air compressor, a patent from the us patent office, cyrogenice dewar some copper tubing and a zex nitrous nozzle.
taking the copper tubing and shaping it into a coil so that both ends came out on the same end i placed the coil into the dewar which was filled with liquid nitrogen (avaliable at most welding supply stores for 1$ a liter) the copper acts as a heat sink and rapidly cools ambiet air into liquid form. liquid nitrogen is a -195 celsuis while oxygen liquifies at around -175 celsius. add a air compressor and about 50 psi and WHAM out comes liquid air. this was injected into my car and a freinds car on a dyno with a constant 9-12hp peak gain with no other tuning! (that means no added fuel ethier!!) now alot of pepole will want to post and say how liquid oxygen will make a motor explode and balh blah blah.. and yes pure liquid oxygen will make your motor explode, however liquidfied ambeit air will not!! i Know i have the dyno runs to prove it. any way im getting out of the military some will be low on funds to keep producing this prototype. any one interested in backing this project? also if you like this ideal tell everyone you know. i would hate to scrape this project just because i ran out of money.

the benifets
lasts way longer than nitrous ( about 3 weeks of constant use instead of 7 or 8 shots at the trackon a v8)

way cheaper (1$ a liter)

way safer ( no extrem pressure to deal with, a nitrous bottle in usually at 800 to 900 psi full!!)

all this for about a 50 dollar mark up on a regular zex kit.

any way i would like this forums thought questions and ideals on this. thanks

erik waters
fort walton beach florida
850-499-6416 feel free to call or email me if your interested in viewing or need more info

All that seems to really do is imitate the effects of a turbo on your car. If you don't run extra fuel to that system, you will blow the engine since all you're really doing is leaning it out a lot.

yes i am very aware that leaning out a motor will cause detonation please keep in mind that we are still in trail phase right now when more capital is aquired then this will be made as a full nitrous kit with tuning and added fuel. as far as it imatating a trubo you couldnt be much farther from the truth. this imitates a nitrous kit not a turbo the difference being old nitrous kits can only be used a certain number of times (usually 7 to 8 1/4 mile runs on a v8 10bl bottle) where as my kit can be used exactly the same as a nitrous kit but as many times as you want for about 3 weeks. same push button or toggle switch activating power on demand.

ok i seem to be getting alot of usless flak in other forums (teamzx2.com) so let me try to make a few things clear

1 i AM NOT trying to sell this product, its still in devlopment phase, the only thing im looking for is techniacal feedback and finaical backing from a established company for further devlopment. please do not write about how this is a scam to make money as i have not tried to sell any one anything.

2. mabye i wasnt completly clear on some aspect of this project. first of all the dewar that contains the liquid nitrogen is open to the atmospher there is absolutly no psi build up form the liquid nitrogen the only pressure involved in this whole system is in the air compressor at 50 to 100 psi.
No liquid nitrogen ever enters the intake tract!! it is used strictly for cooling.

3 i am very aware that cooling air down 20 or 30 degrees is not enough to build respectable hp gains. please understand that this is not some chessy ice back or anything of that nature. this cools the ambiet air down to a liquid form a -165 to 175 dgress celsuis. there is just about as much oxygen in liquidfied air as in nirtous oxide the only differince between my product and nitrous from a chemical stand point is pretty much that the nitrogen and oxygen are not a combined partical.

4. there has been quite a bit of negative comments on the hose power gains made by pepole regarding my product. so to end this once and for all i would like to point out that WE ARE STILL IN DEVLOPMENT STAGES. i am well aware that paying an extra 50$ on top of a nirtous kit price for a 10 hp gain would be stupid. the point we were trying to make was that with out any tuning or fuel added we made a peak of 10 hp gain. if you were to take a nitrous oxide kit and jet it down to a point where you did not have to do any tuning or any fuel added you would get about the same horse power. since we have spikes of 15hp recored with out detonation the bottom line is this folks 8 to 12 hp with no tuning is pretty impressive if you think in terms of tuning and fuel enrichment. while i am very aware 8 hp is not much i also know that with tuning and fuel enrichment these hp gains would be on par with a base line nitrous kit.

5. as for cyro2 and there products i invite you to take a close look at there web site. while i agree that it is a very novel idea their product does nothing but cool incoming air for the intake. our product uses a LIQUID air injection about a 1000 times cooler and containg close to the same amout of oxygen and nitrogen that a nitrous kit has than what you could produce with cyro2 and it last a hell of alot longer. they have no prior art on us thier product isnt even close to the same. i know and can tell you this beacause i hold the patent for my sytem.

again soory for the 2 very long posts but we have been getting alot of pointless posts so i figured it was time to clarify

ROTFLMAO
ok ok ok
so let me get this straight.... you are talking about taking a coil, cooling air with liquid nitrogen.... and you think that at the rate at which the air is flowing into the engine and the ammount of air that will actually come in contact witht the coil is enough to coll the oxygen in the air down to a liquid state....
omg i am about to bust a gut....
my question is what is the nitros bottle for? im not completely clear on this. so you are compressing air in the nitros bottle then spraying it into the intake after it has pased through a coil which has liquid nitrogen flowing through it?
myfriend you are insane if you think that this is going to replace or even come near the efficency of nitrosoxide for mkaing extra power.

the ammount of oxygen doesnt change with tempature.... the dinsity does....you need to go learn about boyles law, charle's law, and the combined gas law.... then ocme and talk to me about this.....
also, what are you going to store the liquid nitrogen in?
liquid nitrogen doesnt just stay cold.....it is cold because it is decompressing....you would have to have a continuous flow in order to keep the coil cold which means you would either have your car smoking on hte outsie like a long nitros purge or you owuld pass out because it would leak on the inside untill there wasnt enough oxygen to keep you awake.
it is liquid because it was compressed to a very extreme pressure. the pressure is so great that after the heat that was concentrated because of the compression is disiapted it becomes liquid. and when you release it from compression it does the same thing Nitrosoxide does...it gets cold, just like any gas. it is so cold when it gets out that it stays liquid untill it has time to warm up. the same goes for dry ice. c02 is compressed so much that after the heat disipates and the pressure is released it stayes a solid untill it can heat up enough to become a gas agian. the only difference is that dryice never reaches a liquid state because the heating is so rapid.
Now if yo ureally want to make this useful... try compressing air to 1000-1500PSI.... letting it cool, then spraying it into the intake... then yo uwill have liquid air.... which will evaporate and in the process absorb the heat form the intake air untill all is equal.... cooler combusion and denser air will result....but the reaso why this isnt already being done is because for the effor you may as well be compressing N20 and spraying it into the engine.... colder intake AND extra oxygen....

Show me the Dyno runs.

ok what is it with you guys? please for the love of god take the time too CARFULLY read all the posts before you post. first of all this is not a constant flow, this is used the same as a nitrous shot quick 30 second busts. to answer all your badly looked over questions. yes if you put a copper coil into liquid nitrogen let it cool for about 1-2 min and then put a little compressed air through the coil you get liquid fiieded air coming out the other end. since no one seems to take anything i say seriously i will be posting vidieos later this week. once again let me point out that some one did not read the post carfully or they would have saw that absoulutly NO nitrogen goes to the intake it is used strictly for cooling. if you read my first post you would see a parts listing. do you see anything about a nitrous bottle?? cause i dont!! and since i take the time to carfully read ALL the post let me quote you on a couple.

"the ammount of oxygen doesnt change with tempature.... the dinsity does....you need to go learn about boyles law, charle's law, and the combined gas law.... then ocme and talk to me about this....." so what your trying to tell me is that the amount of oxygen dosnt change in cooler air??? did you ride the short bus home on the last day of school?? it is a well know fact that cooler air holds more oxygen per cubic ft than warmer air thats why cold air intakes are made, thats why your car runs better on cold days.. so have you "busted your gut yet" or shall i continue? heres one other

" Now if yo ureally want to make this useful... try compressing air to 1000-1500PSI.... letting it cool, then spraying it into the intake... then yo uwill have liquid air.... " well way to go smart guy... funny thing is cooling air down with liquid nitrogen does exactly that turns AIR INTO LIQUID!!! and if you took that and put it into a container guess what the preesure would be.... yep you guessed it

schools out... like i said i will post the videos by this weekend so there is no more confusion or doubt

Cool, I look forward to it.

Here are some random thoughts pertaining to your project.

1) Engines run on an air-fuel ratio. Regardless of air temp, you have to maintain the ratio. If the air is denser, then the fuel must be adjusted to match. I know you’re in the early stages, but you need to run under proper conditions to validate any claims. Otherwise, it could be assumed that you didn’t gain any power, rather, you were simply losing power before due to an over-rich condition. Also, what engines did you run this on?
2) Engines run on vaporized fuel. With the temps you are claiming for the liquid air at the nozzle, you’re going to condense/freeze the fuel, not vaporize it. Lack of vaporization is the reason we had chokes, and it’s the reason some racers using nitrous on alcohol motors actually run a second fuel tank with gasoline in it for the nitrous system. Nitrous vapor temps. are around -54 degrees. Gasoline’s flash point is around -40.
3) I’m not a chemist, but by definition wouldn’t N2O be 1/3rd oxygen? Air is around 20% oxygen. You said: “there is just about as much oxygen in liquidfied air as in nirtous oxide”. Am I not understanding, or is there a 50%+ difference?
4) Legal stuff: Not my area of expertise, but wouldn’t you need placarding and a haz-mat CDL to drive with liquid nitrogen on the vehicle? Also, there are many safety concerns with hauling liquid nitrogen in the event of an accident, or even a leak.
It’s an interesting idea. Please, do post the dyno runs, with vehicle and atmospheric data. Post the patent number also if you could.

Good luck

finally a good post with real reasoning behide it. so let me try to answer you questions in order.
1. not to clear on this one... if i was running rich that would be extra fuel which would mean that the dyno run of 10 horse would be about all you would get out of this kit..... i wouldnt waste my time but i have no waay of proving differnt tell we do do the tuning...also the motor was 2001 3.8 monte carlo ss (non-supercharged) and the dyno is at the wheels not fly.
2. umm how to explaine this.. liquid oxygen has a very high expansion ratio so what comes out of the nozzle as liquid turns to dense vapor in the intake it self so no fuel freezing how ever it would be interesting on a carb..
3 ahhhh...ummm...yaaaa.. you got me there!!! :) my fault and soory for the confusion, my best explanation is that since the liquid nitrogen is already at its liquid temp not all the ambient nitrogen getts frozen resulting in a similar nitrogen/oxygen ratio.
4. this is esaily answered by a quick search on the web. you do not have to have specail markings or ratings to haul this stuff( i should know i have to haul it about once a week) you run into problems with d.o.t when you pressurize the containers but can still haul if equiped with a press relife valve same as nitrous. saftey kinda goes two ways would you rather have a extremly cold subsatnce that supports combustion (nitrous) or an extrmely cold subsatance that surpress it?? plus no 800-900 psi bomb in your trunk ethier (again nitrous)

the dyno results can be found here. soory for linking but i cant figure out how to post them on here.

http://www.teamzx2.com/index.cfm?fa=forum.viewThread&thread_id=84627

Here are some random thoughts pertaining to your project.
3) I’m not a chemist, but by definition wouldn’t N2O be 1/3rd oxygen? Air is around 20% oxygen. You said: “there is just about as much oxygen in liquidfied air as in nirtous oxide”. Am I not understanding, or is there a 50%+ difference?

The atomic weight of nitrogen is 14 kg/kmol and oxgen is 16 kg/kmol. So the molecular weight of N2O is going to be 44 kg/kmol ([2*14]+16). So by weight/mass N20 is 36.4% oxygen ([16/44]*100).



way safer ( no extrem pressure to deal with, a nitrous bottle in usually at 800 to 900 psi full!!


" Now if yo ureally want to make this useful... try compressing air to 1000-1500PSI.... letting it cool, then spraying it into the intake... then yo uwill have liquid air.... " well way to go smart guy... funny thing is cooling air down with liquid nitrogen does exactly that turns AIR INTO LIQUID!!! and if you took that and put it into a container guess what the preesure would be.... yep you guessed it

What are the tank pressures? You are cooling air to ~ -195°C and then placing the air in a sealed container. Is the container constantly cooled with the liquid nitrogen or does the air warm back up to ambient temperature?

thank you for your post on the atomic weight but again please read ALL the posts. this product is not pressurized as of right now.

I think it would be clearer if we had a diagram/schematic of your idea. Whats your patent #? They are all listed online now.

litte little boys....
Lets get a little technical shall we?

The way you stated it is that there is more oxygen per gram when it is x degrees than y degrees if y>x.
This isnt true. we all know density is changed, that isnt hard to figure out. but the ammount of oxygen in a given ammount of air isnt going to change.
that is my point, here is my case.

22l of oxygen (16grams or one Mol.) in 110l of air at STP.
lets lower tempature to 98 Kelvin assumeing pressure remains constant lets see what happens.
v[1]/t[1]=v[2]/t[2] when P is consant.
22l/273k=x/98
x=7.9l of oxygen. but it is still 16g of oxygen... still the same exacy ammount.

but lets say pressure is aloud to change but volume is constant (as is the case here)
P[1]V[1]/T[1]=P[2]V[2]/T[2]

760mmHg 22l/273k= x 22l/98

272.8mmHg.... fyi that is 0.36atm or 5.27psi that is a HUGE pressure drop... but there is still the same ammount of oxygen. what you will be doing when you do this is causing manifold pressure to drop while keeping the moles of oxygen/litre the same.
Granted it will give a small HP increase you will not see the major increase of power like you will with nitros oxide because nitros oxide is just as cold but it contains more oxygen/litre than air.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/CBFryman/what.jpg

that is one funky second run.
now apologise about the short bus thing or i will have a feild day ;) since i have proven to you that i am not just some smart ass wanting to bash someone for the hell of it. I never said it wouldnt increase power. but it is in no way going to compeate with nitrosoxide. but some schmatics would be nice. if you dont know how to post pics E-mail them to CBFryman07@aol.com and i will post them for you.

over two years working on my own. i aquired a air compressor, a patent from the us patent office, cyrogenice dewar some copper tubing and a zex nitrous nozzle.

sorry i read it wrong i though it said bottle..... :smooch:

ROTFLMAO

the ammount of oxygen doesnt change with tempature.... the dinsity does....you need to go learn about boyles law, charle's law, and the combined gas law.... then ocme and talk to me about this.....


Umm... Boyle's law states that n1 X sinx1 = n2 X sinx2

p1v1=p2v2

Pressure times temp is equal to pressure times temp....

volume* sorry. Pressure times volume equals presure times volume.

oh ya, and you arent the first person to think of this on this form and i would like a patent number also so i can go look at some schematics....
and im still not ocmpletely understanding why you need liquid nitrogen.....when you spray the stuff and the compressed air decreses in pressure it will automatically become very cold.... like an areosal can... when pressure is released things get cooler....

His plan is to have a pipe inside of a container, and pump that container full of liquid nitrogen. Then, using an air compressor, pump air through that pipe, which will turn into liquid oxygen, which can then be injected into the combustion chamber.

I'm not saying it would work or anything, thats just what I understand as his idea.

got it now... originally i thought he was running a coil in the intake. his explinations are very unclear. so basically you are just spraying cold air into the intake? well it isnt going to be liquid, just very cold. you may eventually see 3-5% increases (just taking a wild geuss)
let me post some schematics so anyone who doesnt understand now can understand.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/CBFryman/nitrogen.bmp

basicly frozen water and cold air is about all you gonna get....id just pour hte Ln2 in the intake manifold that will get you somewhere.

I'm not sure if its right, thats just how I understood it :P

And yes, I personally would not use it in my car, but if he wants to try, I guess.

wow i never thought pepole bashing me/my idea would matter that much to me but i guess it does.... so if every one would wait a little i will have the videos up soon. this is pretty much the only way i can prove to you guys i guess. then i expect everyone to say they are soory and tell me they want 8 of them . :)

An interesting idea, and I would like to see what some real engineers have to say but:

How do you plan to keep the nitrigen in its liquid form for a long period of time?
That requires pressure.

Have you thought about the problem of ice crystals forming?

If your injecting the compressed, liquid air into the intake, and letting it expand, then how is any extra air getting into the combustion chamber?
It needs to remain in a compressed state to over come the limits of the intake, ports, valve, cam and head design if any more air is to be introduced to the combustion chamber.

And, how are you planing on leting the enigne management know more air is apprently entering, and more fuel needs to be added with it?

Have you verified that your apparatus can actually liquify air?

Would it be possible for you to perform a bit of an experiment for me?
1. Determine the mass of the empty nitrous bottle.
2. Determine the volume of the nitrous bottle.
3. Run the apparatus and compress the air into the bottle.
4. Determine the new mass of the bottle.

I would be interested in knowing the density of the air compressed by your apparatus.

wow i never thought pepole bashing me/my idea would matter that much to me but i guess it does.... so if every one would wait a little i will have the videos up soon. this is pretty much the only way i can prove to you guys i guess. then i expect everyone to say they are soory and tell me they want 8 of them . :)

people arent bashing you. You asked for their input and they are giving it to you. All it looks like your doing is trying to inject cold air into the intake. I dont think anyone is doubting that you can make some power with this, just not enough to justify doing it. Also if the air is as cold as you say, how are you going to prevent water molecules in the air from freezing into ice crystals? Or freezing the gas? Did you ever think of what kind of shock that would put on the internals of the engine? Extremly hot to extremly cold? Over and over again? your gonna start cracking the engine apart.

Here i got a little experiment for you to do. Take a metal spoon and put it in your freezer for an hour or so, untill its just as cold as the freezer. Then add some sugar and water in a glass. Mix it up good, and microwave the sugar water for about 5 mins or untill it beings to boil. Now with some safety gear as in eye goggles, gloves, so that none of your skin is exposed. Take the cold spoon and put it in the glass. The resulting effect should be a semi violent explosion.

The way I understand it, is:

1. Submerge a copper coil into Liquid Nitrogen.
2. Force air through the coil via a compressor @ 50-100psi.
3. Store resulting liquid in an N2O bottle.
4. Run liquid AIR through engine as one would use N2O. As liquid air moves through lines, it warms up to its gaseous state which is still WELL below atmospheric temperatures resulting in power gains.

As he said, tuning has not been done. With a larger shot of air and some a/f tuning, I'm sure this design could turn out some great numbers. The only thing I am questionable about it storing this liquid air at atmopheric temperatures. Would it not eventually explode, or does it act just like CO2, the pressure at this point forces it to stay liquid and cold?

Moxion, let me know if I understood your design correctly, or if I'm way out in left field.

basicly frozen water and cold air is about all you gonna get....id just pour hte Ln2 in the intake manifold that will get you somewhere.
That IS something you'd wanna do. Get a compressor that is used for SCUBA tanks, or the like, so it removes the moisture from the air, so you don't end up with iced lines.

ok folks once AGAIN there is no nitrous bottle involved !!! and please dont post retarted experimants for me to try im not fresh out of school i have a very good idea of what im doing. at least i should ive been workingon this for 2 years.
now to answer some questions
MOPPIE i would love to talk to a real engginerr. if you know any that would like to do some freelance work let me know. as far as your questions go we shot this into a car remeber? no gas froze and it showed hp gains. so my guess would be it makes it to the cylinders still in a compressed state. we are currntly working on a pressurized nitrogen bottle for longer storage but it hard to find a company that will let me put a copper coil in thier containers and still pass saftey test. but i can tell you that 45 liters of liquid nitrogen last almost a month in a open atmospher dewar so its not a top priorty right now. as far as engine mang. we have looked into apexi sfac for right now. our first test we ran in front of the maf caused the computer to overcompasate, the computer just wasnt fast enough and we got really bad air/fuel spikes all across the dyno run. and finally the ice crystals.. finally some one bought up one of the problems were having instead of ones we already solved!! we have found that if you use the coil about once a day the coil dosent frezze up much but if you let it sit the coil becomes cloged.. no real solution in site except mabye a purge or hot wire... any one have any ideas??

sluttypaton- the experiment commet was not for you.. yes we have veirfied that this does liquifie air if fact one of the videos i will be posting show us filling half a gatorade bottle and puting a cigaratte in it ( burns completly down in about 30 sec really cool) as far as density i dont have a clue nor the supplies to test. the closest i could give you would be to look up the density for liquid oxygen and then minus like 20 ( not very accurate i know) thats the only thing i can think of.

jet lee-- you are almost right on except there is no nitrous bottle the air goes strain from the coil to the intake. the liquid nitrogen is at atmospheric press no chance of exploding.

so i see no apology, well that is fine...

ok, here's a question then, IF you did store the result in something resembling a steel scuba tank (good to about 5k+ psi), would atmospheric temperature heat it up too much and cause it to explode? I mean, like I said, CO2 is stored in liquid form, which keeps it cool, very cool. When you fill the CO2 can/tank, it is cold, but it pressurizes and finishes the process of turning it liquid. Then it only expands to gas untilt eh bottle is pressurized to certain point, holding the rest as liquid. As the CO2 leaves the bottle, the expansion of the gas causes a cooling effect. Now, is this same effect possible with liquid air? Put it in a container (drip/pour it in?), then cap it off (with a valve), then some of it will revert to gas, but will is keep the rest of it pressurized into liquid form for use later? Then, as it expands through the lines/jets, you get the same cooling effect?
This is just a though on a way to store it. So you could just pour some liquid air into your steel tank, crank the valve down really tight, then hook it back up in ur car, then you don't have to lug around a compressor, liquid nitrogen, nor the plumbing for the two, just a tank hooked up like N2O.

CBF why would i apologize? you were insulting so i was insulting. the only thing im soory about is you cant take what you dish out.
and to answer questions.... yes you could store it but what i was trying to do was make a unit thaat you only have to fill every 3 weeks or so other wise whats the point? might as well just use nitrous. as far as "luggin" aroung the componets they make very small "remote" air compressors like on rvs or air ride suspesion and two bottles really isnt that much, it would be like running two NOS bottles whiich alot of pepole do beacuse nitrous runs out so quick. my whole goal is to make this cheaper,just has effective and spend less time filling/worrying about running out in the middle of a race.

i never insuleted...i told you whats what...then you though you could "School" me.... and it turns out i do know a little bit about chemistry and fluid dynamics....

I'm sorry I misunderstood your design, I thought that the resulting compressed air was stored in a bottle before use. It's a pity it isn't because it would be very easy to determine the density of it to some degree of accuracy if it were. I look forward to seeing some videos...I will admit I'm sceptical but I will give it a chance.

Moxion,

1) Question: The Monte: is it stock? Stock air box, filter, intake, chip? (Need all 4 answers )

2) Since you stated only one nozzle was to be used (at this point anyway), I would assume it was near the throttle plate. Correct?

3) You stated that a small compressor would be used to pump the air through the coil. Well, let’s go with a big compressor (5 to 8 horses, 2 stage). Even that is only capable of 20 or so cfm at 100 psi.. Given that you are pumping air into the coil, not drawing it through, you are limited to that airflow regardless of density changes later. That’s less than 10% of the airflow required for a decent V-8. Do you believe that’s enough?

I say compress the air into a liquid, using your method, then store it in a tank. You dont have to carry liquid N2 in ur car then, and you can refill it yourself for the cost of a liter of liquid N2.

the monte has cat back exhauhst and a home made shorty filter. the nozzle so far has been located in differnt places in the intake tract in all the test we have done how ever the one that is posted gave us the most gains positioned after the MAF about 8 in from the throttle body. also as a side note were are headed out to fill our dewar to test a new coil so there should be video up some time today as long as our guy has liquid nitrogen. im really looking forward to proving all the non belivers wrong so please check back often

took some basic videos today, just don't know how to post them. anyone wanna help with that?

upload them to a hosting site

looking for one, just finding ones that do pictures

geocities

5mb upload capacity. One video is 5.73mb the other is 16.8mb. Any other sites. I'll see how much I can condense the videos, gonna have some horrible quality.

message me on aim, noctorum35

Don't have aim.

ok folks viedios are up but since this is my first time doing this please bear with me files are at www.streamload.com and you have to sign in user name is moxion234 password is Ekw.@#$234 check them out and let me know what you think

ok now to make a few things clear... yes i know the dewar we are using is huge... no its not going to be that big in production its just what i could get my hands on. the liquid you see coming out in "spray" video is liquidfied air... and the other video is the liquidfied air in a metal bucket... and finally yes that really is a cig burning like a torch!! you can see where its actually "blows" it self out a couple time and is so saturated with the liquid air that re lighting it makes a nice fire.. so any more no belivers??? now every one buy 10 :) just kidding but please if you do like this product tell pepole about it who knows mabye enough buzz and i can actually get this in production. let me know what you guys think or if you would like more vids.

I'd like to see a vid of it on the car, and in a bit higher quality. If you could assemble/disassemble one, with sound, that would be even better.

humm i think my threads dead... what happned i post proof and every one splits? well for any one reading this were tuning sometime next week and hopfully ill have what every one wants insane hp gains on a dyno instead of the no tuning dyno runs. please dont give up on this yet!!! check back often.

Well, you've proved the liquid air portion. Now video of it in a car?


P.S. - good job. Props.

well a little update... so this week i bought a total of 3 apexi safc for tuning and guess what nobody got this right!!(yes i got refunds) but after the last one i kinda gave up. the guy set me a vafc instead of a safc. does any one know if i can still use this on my car? other pepole have said that i can still use it if i dont hook up the vtec part??? any one with any ideals? any one know a simpler way to add a tunable amount of fuel to my car? as you saw in the vidieos im going to have alot of extrra air so i really need to be able to fine tune my fuel mapping... and oh ya did i mention that i need it cheap??? well if any one is still reading this post let me know what you think

maybe more people would respond if we could actually see the video. You hosted 2 5 MB files on a server that only lets you download 100MB a month. Thats means at the very most, 10 people saw both your videos. . .

This thread is getting a little old, long, and argumentative. I've closed it, but, Moxion234, when you get more data and maybe a video, let's continue with another thread. A nice, gentle thread :)