Ls-1 to all ford motors, which one????
ls1mazda93rx7
12-25-2004, 07:32 PM
well what ford engine is better?.And this is not a PRICE ISSUE :confused: .
drdisque
12-25-2004, 09:07 PM
I think it can be compared to the 4.6L DOHC Mod motor, not that they exactly line up, but there is a comparison to be had.
If you want to go old school and aren't worrying about how they are stock, I think the 351W compares well to the LS1 too.
If you want to go old school and aren't worrying about how they are stock, I think the 351W compares well to the LS1 too.
ls1mazda93rx7
12-25-2004, 10:51 PM
yea but the ls-1 gets 30mpg on the highway. and has more horsepower than a 4.6.4.6-260hp Ls-1-315hp. the weight of the ls-1 is around 40-50lbs lighter than most small blocks.
ls1mazda93rx7
12-25-2004, 10:53 PM
not trying to be a dick, but i just won't a good debate.
syr74
12-26-2004, 12:21 AM
Well, do you want to compare stock for stock or highly modded to highly modded? There is a lot to compare here.
Potential wise you cannot make the same power with the LS1 as compared to a mod motor all things being equal. Put simply, when optimized for what ever particular combination they are running multiple valves make the difference in this comparo as they have in most comparos for decades now. Strength of motors also plays a part.
There are 4.6L DOHC mod motors with what is basically a stock bottom end making 1500hp with twin turbos. (Improved bearings and oiling being the only mods) A stock block LS1 is incapable of making that kind of power reliably even at 5.7L/350ci. Even with forged internals the block just cannot do it. (To be fair the old Windsor Ford blocks cannot take much more than about 500hp without cracking down the lifter valley)
For another example you can make about 500hp out of a n/a DOHC 4.6L motor with a mild motor combo. Take an aluminum 4.6L block, have larger sleeves pressed in which increases the bore adding inches but more importantly seriously unshrouds the valves! With a few other mods it is very easy to make 500hp out of 5.0L with this motor and run on pump gas.
Also, if you do that same "large bore" modification to an otherwise stock 05 Mustang GT 4.6L 3-valve hp would jump from an actual 320 (rated at 300 by Ford) to about 350hp on 87 octane gas! In truth you should make considerably more than that but I like to be conservative. If you contemplate doing this same mod to a long stroke (5.4L block) you would end up with a 6.0L motor that made about the same hp and more torque than the new C6 Vette 6.0L LS2 on 87 octane gas!
For reference show me an LS1 based motor that can make 350hp out of 5.0L in production trim on regular unleaded. We will be waiting a while, because GM has yet to make one that even gets close to that number in that kind of trim. Even GM's 6.0L LS2 needs premium gas to make 400hp, and that is with another liter of displacement.
Sooner or later GM wil move to multipile valves out of necessity. The LS series motor is very nice, but it is about as far as you can develop the pushrod too. The mod motor is still relatively new, and when GM does move to OHC's accross the board they will be several years behind in engineering.
Potential wise you cannot make the same power with the LS1 as compared to a mod motor all things being equal. Put simply, when optimized for what ever particular combination they are running multiple valves make the difference in this comparo as they have in most comparos for decades now. Strength of motors also plays a part.
There are 4.6L DOHC mod motors with what is basically a stock bottom end making 1500hp with twin turbos. (Improved bearings and oiling being the only mods) A stock block LS1 is incapable of making that kind of power reliably even at 5.7L/350ci. Even with forged internals the block just cannot do it. (To be fair the old Windsor Ford blocks cannot take much more than about 500hp without cracking down the lifter valley)
For another example you can make about 500hp out of a n/a DOHC 4.6L motor with a mild motor combo. Take an aluminum 4.6L block, have larger sleeves pressed in which increases the bore adding inches but more importantly seriously unshrouds the valves! With a few other mods it is very easy to make 500hp out of 5.0L with this motor and run on pump gas.
Also, if you do that same "large bore" modification to an otherwise stock 05 Mustang GT 4.6L 3-valve hp would jump from an actual 320 (rated at 300 by Ford) to about 350hp on 87 octane gas! In truth you should make considerably more than that but I like to be conservative. If you contemplate doing this same mod to a long stroke (5.4L block) you would end up with a 6.0L motor that made about the same hp and more torque than the new C6 Vette 6.0L LS2 on 87 octane gas!
For reference show me an LS1 based motor that can make 350hp out of 5.0L in production trim on regular unleaded. We will be waiting a while, because GM has yet to make one that even gets close to that number in that kind of trim. Even GM's 6.0L LS2 needs premium gas to make 400hp, and that is with another liter of displacement.
Sooner or later GM wil move to multipile valves out of necessity. The LS series motor is very nice, but it is about as far as you can develop the pushrod too. The mod motor is still relatively new, and when GM does move to OHC's accross the board they will be several years behind in engineering.
Rakshas
12-26-2004, 12:37 AM
Well, do you want to compare stock for stock or highly modded to highly modded? There is a lot to compare here.
Potential wise you cannot make the same power with the LS1 as compared to a mod motor all things being equal. Put simply, when optimized for what ever particular combination they are running multiple valves make the difference in this comparo as they have in most comparos for decades now. Strength of motors also plays a part.
There are 4.6L DOHC mod motors with what is basically a stock bottom end making 1500hp with twin turbos. (Improved bearings and oiling being the only mods) A stock block LS1 is incapable of making that kind of power reliably even at 5.7L/350ci. Even with forged internals the block just cannot do it. (To be fair the old Windsor Ford blocks cannot take much more than about 500hp without cracking down the lifter valley)
For another example you can make about 500hp out of a n/a DOHC 4.6L motor with a mild motor combo. Take an aluminum 4.6L block, have larger sleeves pressed in which increases the bore adding inches but more importantly seriously unshrouds the valves! With a few other mods it is very easy to make 500hp out of 5.0L with this motor and run on pump gas.
Also, if you do that same "large bore" modification to an otherwise stock 05 Mustang GT 4.6L 3-valve hp would jump from an actual 320 (rated at 300 by Ford) to about 350hp on 87 octane gas! In truth you should make considerably more than that but I like to be conservative. If you contemplate doing this same mod to a long stroke (5.4L block) you would end up with a 6.0L motor that made about the same hp and more torque than the new C6 Vette 6.0L LS2 on 87 octane gas!
For reference show me an LS1 based motor that can make 350hp out of 5.0L in production trim on regular unleaded. We will be waiting a while, because GM has yet to make one that even gets close to that number in that kind of trim. Even GM's 6.0L LS2 needs premium gas to make 400hp, and that is with another liter of displacement.
Sooner or later GM wil move to multipile valves out of necessity. The LS series motor is very nice, but it is about as far as you can develop the pushrod too. The mod motor is still relatively new, and when GM does move to OHC's accross the board they will be several years behind in engineering.
Although not quite as efficient as a modular OHC motor, The LS series motors have two big advanatges over the mod motors.
1. They are easier to mod.
2. It's easier to get to moderate power levels, Honestly, who the hell is ever going to want 1500hp in a street car? 550-600 is fine for most people, and the LS can get there more easily, and cheaper.
Potential wise you cannot make the same power with the LS1 as compared to a mod motor all things being equal. Put simply, when optimized for what ever particular combination they are running multiple valves make the difference in this comparo as they have in most comparos for decades now. Strength of motors also plays a part.
There are 4.6L DOHC mod motors with what is basically a stock bottom end making 1500hp with twin turbos. (Improved bearings and oiling being the only mods) A stock block LS1 is incapable of making that kind of power reliably even at 5.7L/350ci. Even with forged internals the block just cannot do it. (To be fair the old Windsor Ford blocks cannot take much more than about 500hp without cracking down the lifter valley)
For another example you can make about 500hp out of a n/a DOHC 4.6L motor with a mild motor combo. Take an aluminum 4.6L block, have larger sleeves pressed in which increases the bore adding inches but more importantly seriously unshrouds the valves! With a few other mods it is very easy to make 500hp out of 5.0L with this motor and run on pump gas.
Also, if you do that same "large bore" modification to an otherwise stock 05 Mustang GT 4.6L 3-valve hp would jump from an actual 320 (rated at 300 by Ford) to about 350hp on 87 octane gas! In truth you should make considerably more than that but I like to be conservative. If you contemplate doing this same mod to a long stroke (5.4L block) you would end up with a 6.0L motor that made about the same hp and more torque than the new C6 Vette 6.0L LS2 on 87 octane gas!
For reference show me an LS1 based motor that can make 350hp out of 5.0L in production trim on regular unleaded. We will be waiting a while, because GM has yet to make one that even gets close to that number in that kind of trim. Even GM's 6.0L LS2 needs premium gas to make 400hp, and that is with another liter of displacement.
Sooner or later GM wil move to multipile valves out of necessity. The LS series motor is very nice, but it is about as far as you can develop the pushrod too. The mod motor is still relatively new, and when GM does move to OHC's accross the board they will be several years behind in engineering.
Although not quite as efficient as a modular OHC motor, The LS series motors have two big advanatges over the mod motors.
1. They are easier to mod.
2. It's easier to get to moderate power levels, Honestly, who the hell is ever going to want 1500hp in a street car? 550-600 is fine for most people, and the LS can get there more easily, and cheaper.
syr74
12-26-2004, 12:51 AM
Although not quite as efficient as a modular OHC motor, The LS series motors have two big advanatges over the mod motors.
1. They are easier to mod.
2. It's easier to get to moderate power levels, Honestly, who the hell is ever going to want 1500hp in a street car? 550-600 is fine for most people, and the LS can get there more easily, and cheaper.
I disagree. Making 600hp out of a LS series motor without nitrous is an excercise in spending money unless you started with a Z06 or something like it to begin with. And therein lies the rub, the only LS series motors you can mod to 500hp cheaply are the ones that were expensive as hell to begin with.
Even without the large sleeves I can make 400hp-450 out of a 4.6L DOHC pretty easily and cheaply. Use the 5.4L block instead and I can get that number closer to 500hp than 400hp with some serious torque to boot. Too many people assume that since the old GM small blocks were cheap to mod the new ones are....let me assure you they are not.
The only area where the mod motor tends to get really expensive is if you change cams on a 4-valve. And then, only if you change all four of the cams. (usually exhaust-side mods yield much more than intake-side mods) If you start talking power adders there is no comparison.....the mod motor kills the LS. Mild or wild.
1. They are easier to mod.
2. It's easier to get to moderate power levels, Honestly, who the hell is ever going to want 1500hp in a street car? 550-600 is fine for most people, and the LS can get there more easily, and cheaper.
I disagree. Making 600hp out of a LS series motor without nitrous is an excercise in spending money unless you started with a Z06 or something like it to begin with. And therein lies the rub, the only LS series motors you can mod to 500hp cheaply are the ones that were expensive as hell to begin with.
Even without the large sleeves I can make 400hp-450 out of a 4.6L DOHC pretty easily and cheaply. Use the 5.4L block instead and I can get that number closer to 500hp than 400hp with some serious torque to boot. Too many people assume that since the old GM small blocks were cheap to mod the new ones are....let me assure you they are not.
The only area where the mod motor tends to get really expensive is if you change cams on a 4-valve. And then, only if you change all four of the cams. (usually exhaust-side mods yield much more than intake-side mods) If you start talking power adders there is no comparison.....the mod motor kills the LS. Mild or wild.
kman10587
12-26-2004, 02:21 AM
I think the 4.6L motor in the new Mustang GT stacks up very nicely to the LS1. Power is comparable, and the 3-valve SOHC is a very good compromise between low-end power, high-end power, and good gas mileage (Mercedes-Benz has been using that design for over a decade now). I like that the LS1 is cheaper and easier to work on, and I think that OHV has several useful advantages over OHC, mainly better gas mileage and simplicity of maintenance. Still, for maximum efficiency, refinement, and power production, you need OHC, and in today's market, OHV doesn't quite cut it for most people.
ls1mazda93rx7
12-26-2004, 03:13 AM
i could be wrong but, ls-2 400hp $6800 crate engine-ford 5.0 crate with 400hp= http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/modularcobra.asp. I think the ls1 is around 7k or more cheaper.
ls1mazda93rx7
12-26-2004, 03:28 AM
so what is the differnce in these two engines why is the 5.0 cost 15k and the Ls1 or 2http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Ascripts/pricesdata.cgi. cost so much less, they have the same hp??. im just a youg dude so i might be missing something here.
ls1mazda93rx7
12-26-2004, 03:32 AM
ls1mazda93rx7
12-26-2004, 03:32 AM
ls1mazda93rx7
12-26-2004, 03:48 AM
if you have trouble finding the ls-2 the P/N- LS9750
kman10587
12-26-2004, 03:48 AM
There's more to a drivetrain than how much it costs and how much horsepower it makes. Torque, powerband, gas mileage, and strength of internals are important as well.
Muscletang
12-26-2004, 06:09 PM
Although not quite as efficient as a modular OHC motor, The LS series motors have two big advanatges over the mod motors.
1. They are easier to mod.
2. It's easier to get to moderate power levels, Honestly, who the hell is ever going to want 1500hp in a street car? 550-600 is fine for most people, and the LS can get there more easily, and cheaper.
Lets see, Chevy's 350 has been out since 1967 and the basic design has been out since 1955. Ford's 4.6 has been out how long, 15 years? Of course it'll be easier to mod because Chevy's basic small block has been out for 50 years. A whole lot of products can be made for the same engine if its been out for that long of time.
I also haven't heard of anybody bring up to much about 5.0 in this discussion. Many will say 225 hp < 335 is nuts and the LS-1 will kill the 5.0, not so. I ran a guy with a LS-1 in my 5.0 and stayed with him. People look at the hp numbers on the LS-1 but never look at the 300 lb/tq. In a street race a 5.0 will stay and give the LS-1 a good run for its money. I see where the LS-1 really shines is out on open highway. This is my personal opinion though.
Also, the new DOHC 5.0 that's in the new GT-R Mustang is killer. It has what, 400 hp and around 370 lb/torque? I know the GT-R has more but they tweak the engine more than the basic one you get from ford racing.
I'm sorry but the LS-1, LS-2, LT-1, ect engines from Chevy just don't do it anymore like they use to. I think they're good engines but using the same design in their "top of the line" cars that they used back in the 60s just isn't going to cut it. Ford really got with the times when they started making their OHC and DOHC engines.
1. They are easier to mod.
2. It's easier to get to moderate power levels, Honestly, who the hell is ever going to want 1500hp in a street car? 550-600 is fine for most people, and the LS can get there more easily, and cheaper.
Lets see, Chevy's 350 has been out since 1967 and the basic design has been out since 1955. Ford's 4.6 has been out how long, 15 years? Of course it'll be easier to mod because Chevy's basic small block has been out for 50 years. A whole lot of products can be made for the same engine if its been out for that long of time.
I also haven't heard of anybody bring up to much about 5.0 in this discussion. Many will say 225 hp < 335 is nuts and the LS-1 will kill the 5.0, not so. I ran a guy with a LS-1 in my 5.0 and stayed with him. People look at the hp numbers on the LS-1 but never look at the 300 lb/tq. In a street race a 5.0 will stay and give the LS-1 a good run for its money. I see where the LS-1 really shines is out on open highway. This is my personal opinion though.
Also, the new DOHC 5.0 that's in the new GT-R Mustang is killer. It has what, 400 hp and around 370 lb/torque? I know the GT-R has more but they tweak the engine more than the basic one you get from ford racing.
I'm sorry but the LS-1, LS-2, LT-1, ect engines from Chevy just don't do it anymore like they use to. I think they're good engines but using the same design in their "top of the line" cars that they used back in the 60s just isn't going to cut it. Ford really got with the times when they started making their OHC and DOHC engines.
GTStang
12-27-2004, 09:49 AM
Who says in the start this is not a price issue... then starts posting prices and bitching bout that....
emokid15
12-27-2004, 12:18 PM
Who says in the start this is not a price issue... then starts posting prices and bitching bout that....
Yup.
Yup.
syr74
12-27-2004, 01:44 PM
i could be wrong but, ls-2 400hp $6800 crate engine-ford 5.0 crate with 400hp= http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/modularcobra.asp. I think the ls1 is around 7k or more cheaper.
Picking and choosing particular motor combos can help your argument but it can hurt it as well. The 5.0L "Cammer" is significantly more than the LS2 because the block and other parts of the Ford crate motor are basically race parts. Aluminum Mod motor block in general are much stronger than LS series blocks and the block on the Cammer is essentially overkill to the extreme.
If you bought a 5.0L Cammer motor to leave it as is, you bought the wrong motor. This is essentially a platform meant to be built upon for those looking for ridiculous horsepower. Also, the mod motor is made up of mostly very low run parts whereas the LS2 has the benefit of being a production motor.
A better comparison would be the 5.4L Lightning crate motor (get one while you can they will be gone soon) which rings in at about the same price the LS2 does. It makes about 30-40 less actual horespower than the LS2 but an enormous amount more torque than the Chevy mill.
Yeah, it's blown, but it is in the price range and if out-of-the-crate speed is what you need the Lightning mill will make your 69 Cougar go like it has a JATO strapped to it. Stock for stock the ludicrous torque curve of the Lightning would be a definate advanatge over the LS2 if you have the traction to make it hook.
And did I mention that for about 2500 dollars more I can be making well over 600 rwhp reliably on pump gas? Show me a crate LS series motor that can do the same for the same amount of money.
The LS mill is very nice, and has somel advantages over other motors. (Mush smaller and a bit lighter than the mod motors) But, to act as though Ford builds nothing that competes is laughable.
Picking and choosing particular motor combos can help your argument but it can hurt it as well. The 5.0L "Cammer" is significantly more than the LS2 because the block and other parts of the Ford crate motor are basically race parts. Aluminum Mod motor block in general are much stronger than LS series blocks and the block on the Cammer is essentially overkill to the extreme.
If you bought a 5.0L Cammer motor to leave it as is, you bought the wrong motor. This is essentially a platform meant to be built upon for those looking for ridiculous horsepower. Also, the mod motor is made up of mostly very low run parts whereas the LS2 has the benefit of being a production motor.
A better comparison would be the 5.4L Lightning crate motor (get one while you can they will be gone soon) which rings in at about the same price the LS2 does. It makes about 30-40 less actual horespower than the LS2 but an enormous amount more torque than the Chevy mill.
Yeah, it's blown, but it is in the price range and if out-of-the-crate speed is what you need the Lightning mill will make your 69 Cougar go like it has a JATO strapped to it. Stock for stock the ludicrous torque curve of the Lightning would be a definate advanatge over the LS2 if you have the traction to make it hook.
And did I mention that for about 2500 dollars more I can be making well over 600 rwhp reliably on pump gas? Show me a crate LS series motor that can do the same for the same amount of money.
The LS mill is very nice, and has somel advantages over other motors. (Mush smaller and a bit lighter than the mod motors) But, to act as though Ford builds nothing that competes is laughable.
ls1mazda93rx7
12-28-2004, 02:35 AM
"And did I mention that for about 2500 dollars more I can be making well over 600 rwhp reliably on pump gas?" well show me and ill shut up!.oh can i put a supercharger on the ls-2??
ls1mazda93rx7
12-28-2004, 02:41 AM
if you all would like to call (205) 887-5161. and talk to mr.brian hinson im sure he would send you a video of his 800hp ls-1 and just think he's making a twinturbo set-up. when hell tell's you or send you a video just think of me!.
ls1mazda93rx7
12-28-2004, 03:47 AM
Who says in the start this is not a price issue... then starts posting prices and bitching bout that.... .U know your absolutely right---->
"I disagree. Making 600hp out of a LS series motor without nitrous is an excercise in spending money unless you started with a Z06 or something like it to begin with. And therein lies the rub, the only LS series motors you can mod to 500hp cheaply are the ones that were expensive as hell to begin with". man you got to pay more att.
"I disagree. Making 600hp out of a LS series motor without nitrous is an excercise in spending money unless you started with a Z06 or something like it to begin with. And therein lies the rub, the only LS series motors you can mod to 500hp cheaply are the ones that were expensive as hell to begin with". man you got to pay more att.
ls1mazda93rx7
12-28-2004, 03:53 AM
the only person making points here is is syr74.and like i said i wasn't the first person to talk about price, if you read more closely.
Ground Rat
12-28-2004, 07:46 AM
well what ford engine is better?.And this is not a PRICE ISSUE :confused: .
I'm not really sure what the point of this thread is, except to start a flame war possibly? :nono: The blown 5.4L and blown 4.6L could both be considered better engines. They are both lightweight engines that are reliable, efficient, and put out more power than the LS1. Both are cheap to upgrade and respond well to mods. How's that for a comeback from a chevy guy?! :loser:
I'm not really sure what the point of this thread is, except to start a flame war possibly? :nono: The blown 5.4L and blown 4.6L could both be considered better engines. They are both lightweight engines that are reliable, efficient, and put out more power than the LS1. Both are cheap to upgrade and respond well to mods. How's that for a comeback from a chevy guy?! :loser:
syr74
12-28-2004, 09:42 AM
"And did I mention that for about 2500 dollars more I can be making well over 600 rwhp reliably on pump gas?" well show me and ill shut up!.oh can i put a supercharger on the ls-2??
Well yes, you can put a supercharger on an LS2! Can you do it for around 2500 bucks and make close to 600 hp at the wheels? I don't think so.
http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/ford/lighting54/lighting54.htm
And there ya go. Notice this site says 560+hp. But, look at the mods. Ram-air, throttle body, chip,modded inlet, and a twin screw blower in place of the standard rootes. They have yet to add exhaust/headers to this truck or cams. Hmmm, wonder if that'll get you above 600whp...lol
This is getting tiring. It's like you showed up and said "I know nothing about motors but I think the LS series GM is better anyway....now you prove that it is not." If you are so intent that the LS is better then you do the research and figure out what you are talking about. I already know.
Well yes, you can put a supercharger on an LS2! Can you do it for around 2500 bucks and make close to 600 hp at the wheels? I don't think so.
http://www.kennebell.net/superchargers/ford/lighting54/lighting54.htm
And there ya go. Notice this site says 560+hp. But, look at the mods. Ram-air, throttle body, chip,modded inlet, and a twin screw blower in place of the standard rootes. They have yet to add exhaust/headers to this truck or cams. Hmmm, wonder if that'll get you above 600whp...lol
This is getting tiring. It's like you showed up and said "I know nothing about motors but I think the LS series GM is better anyway....now you prove that it is not." If you are so intent that the LS is better then you do the research and figure out what you are talking about. I already know.
syr74
12-28-2004, 09:44 AM
.U know your absolutely right---->
"I disagree. Making 600hp out of a LS series motor without nitrous is an excercise in spending money unless you started with a Z06 or something like it to begin with. And therein lies the rub, the only LS series motors you can mod to 500hp cheaply are the ones that were expensive as hell to begin with". man you got to pay more att.
Well, there was a reason for that actually. I slam dunked the "price no object" one right off the bat, as there are 1500hp mod motors all over the place compared to LS motors.
"I disagree. Making 600hp out of a LS series motor without nitrous is an excercise in spending money unless you started with a Z06 or something like it to begin with. And therein lies the rub, the only LS series motors you can mod to 500hp cheaply are the ones that were expensive as hell to begin with". man you got to pay more att.
Well, there was a reason for that actually. I slam dunked the "price no object" one right off the bat, as there are 1500hp mod motors all over the place compared to LS motors.
black84z28
12-29-2004, 12:53 AM
Well, do you want to compare stock for stock or highly modded to highly modded? There is a lot to compare here.
Potential wise you cannot make the same power with the LS1 as compared to a mod motor all things being equal. Put simply, when optimized for what ever particular combination they are running multiple valves make the difference in this comparo as they have in most comparos for decades now. Strength of motors also plays a part.
There are 4.6L DOHC mod motors with what is basically a stock bottom end making 1500hp with twin turbos. (Improved bearings and oiling being the only mods) A stock block LS1 is incapable of making that kind of power reliably even at 5.7L/350ci. Even with forged internals the block just cannot do it. (To be fair the old Windsor Ford blocks cannot take much more than about 500hp without cracking down the lifter valley)
For another example you can make about 500hp out of a n/a DOHC 4.6L motor with a mild motor combo. Take an aluminum 4.6L block, have larger sleeves pressed in which increases the bore adding inches but more importantly seriously unshrouds the valves! With a few other mods it is very easy to make 500hp out of 5.0L with this motor and run on pump gas.
Also, if you do that same "large bore" modification to an otherwise stock 05 Mustang GT 4.6L 3-valve hp would jump from an actual 320 (rated at 300 by Ford) to about 350hp on 87 octane gas! In truth you should make considerably more than that but I like to be conservative. If you contemplate doing this same mod to a long stroke (5.4L block) you would end up with a 6.0L motor that made about the same hp and more torque than the new C6 Vette 6.0L LS2 on 87 octane gas!
For reference show me an LS1 based motor that can make 350hp out of 5.0L in production trim on regular unleaded. We will be waiting a while, because GM has yet to make one that even gets close to that number in that kind of trim. Even GM's 6.0L LS2 needs premium gas to make 400hp, and that is with another liter of displacement.
Sooner or later GM wil move to multipile valves out of necessity. The LS series motor is very nice, but it is about as far as you can develop the pushrod too. The mod motor is still relatively new, and when GM does move to OHC's accross the board they will be several years behind in engineering.
are you kidding me?...the ls1 itself is a very unrated motor...a few motors have been dynoed at 400 at the crank...stock..ALSO...IF YOU WANNA SEE WHAT AN LS1 CAN DO...head over to tremek.com...they have a STOCk head and STOCK bottom end car running 9.6@138mph
http://www.ls1speed.com/movies/jugga964.WMV
got any stangs that can do that...the only 4.6 mod motor that is worth a fuck is the 4v cobra motor because ford built that motor to take power and dumped the goodies like rods and pistons in it from the factory.....any cam only mod cars running high 10s with a cam change only?...ls cars are...
is there a ls1 car in the 8s?...i am pretty sure there is
and the crap about gm making power with a smaller displacement motor...wtf...everyone knows the more cubes you have the more power you can make...if that wasn't so people with mod cars like shaun highland would NEVER stroke those motors out
Potential wise you cannot make the same power with the LS1 as compared to a mod motor all things being equal. Put simply, when optimized for what ever particular combination they are running multiple valves make the difference in this comparo as they have in most comparos for decades now. Strength of motors also plays a part.
There are 4.6L DOHC mod motors with what is basically a stock bottom end making 1500hp with twin turbos. (Improved bearings and oiling being the only mods) A stock block LS1 is incapable of making that kind of power reliably even at 5.7L/350ci. Even with forged internals the block just cannot do it. (To be fair the old Windsor Ford blocks cannot take much more than about 500hp without cracking down the lifter valley)
For another example you can make about 500hp out of a n/a DOHC 4.6L motor with a mild motor combo. Take an aluminum 4.6L block, have larger sleeves pressed in which increases the bore adding inches but more importantly seriously unshrouds the valves! With a few other mods it is very easy to make 500hp out of 5.0L with this motor and run on pump gas.
Also, if you do that same "large bore" modification to an otherwise stock 05 Mustang GT 4.6L 3-valve hp would jump from an actual 320 (rated at 300 by Ford) to about 350hp on 87 octane gas! In truth you should make considerably more than that but I like to be conservative. If you contemplate doing this same mod to a long stroke (5.4L block) you would end up with a 6.0L motor that made about the same hp and more torque than the new C6 Vette 6.0L LS2 on 87 octane gas!
For reference show me an LS1 based motor that can make 350hp out of 5.0L in production trim on regular unleaded. We will be waiting a while, because GM has yet to make one that even gets close to that number in that kind of trim. Even GM's 6.0L LS2 needs premium gas to make 400hp, and that is with another liter of displacement.
Sooner or later GM wil move to multipile valves out of necessity. The LS series motor is very nice, but it is about as far as you can develop the pushrod too. The mod motor is still relatively new, and when GM does move to OHC's accross the board they will be several years behind in engineering.
are you kidding me?...the ls1 itself is a very unrated motor...a few motors have been dynoed at 400 at the crank...stock..ALSO...IF YOU WANNA SEE WHAT AN LS1 CAN DO...head over to tremek.com...they have a STOCk head and STOCK bottom end car running 9.6@138mph
http://www.ls1speed.com/movies/jugga964.WMV
got any stangs that can do that...the only 4.6 mod motor that is worth a fuck is the 4v cobra motor because ford built that motor to take power and dumped the goodies like rods and pistons in it from the factory.....any cam only mod cars running high 10s with a cam change only?...ls cars are...
is there a ls1 car in the 8s?...i am pretty sure there is
and the crap about gm making power with a smaller displacement motor...wtf...everyone knows the more cubes you have the more power you can make...if that wasn't so people with mod cars like shaun highland would NEVER stroke those motors out
syr74
12-29-2004, 11:16 AM
First of all b.s., stock LS1's do not make 400hp at the crank. I have a friend who ran a dyno until about a year ago and I have literally seen hundreds of cars run accross it. LS6 powered Z06's only dyno in the 355 rwhp range (that equates to about 415 hp at the crank) And that is the stoutest LS series motor sold on our shores to date!
Both the LS1 and LS6 were somewhat under-rated from the factory as I allude to above, but I seriously hope you do not believe anybody is dumb enough to believe they dyno at 400rwhp stock. And, if that number was for modded cars I am not sure what the point was as a modded LS series motor can indeed make 400 rwhp as can most anything else.
As for a LS1 wth a cam change only running 10's. Gotta ring the b.s. bell on this one too. The fastest of the LS series car, the C5 Z06, runs mid 12's bone stock. With NOTHING but a cam change you now run high 10's?.?.?...... a second and a half improvement with nothing but a cam on a n/a car? Um...no, and I cannot imagine anyone else buying such a ridiculous claim. This is like debating with a kid in Junior High.
However, I will point out that 03-04 Cobras run well into the 10's all the time with simple bolt ons (pulley, chip, throttle body, ram air, exhaust) and slicks. It may be unfair because the Cobra is supercharged and lends itself to big increases in power easily, but this is racing and racing is not always fair.
Also, the comment about cubic inches was to point out what should have been an obvious fact. Ford's modular V-8's can match LS series power levels with fewer cubic inches even when n/a. In other words the LS series motors HAVE TO have the cubic inches to make big power, the Ford's can do it smaller and only get better as they get bigger. I agree that cubic inches are a good thing, but what happens when the Ford motors are as big (and mod motors can be bigger than 6.0L) as the LS motors? Nothing good for your side. That one apparently just went right over your head.
As for the Cobra's 4v being the only motor worth a "fuck"... every LS series motor sold in a car in America uses cast pistons just like the standard DOHC Ford V-8's (MkVIII, Aviator, etc.) So by your standard every LS series motor sucks? Good argument there Newton.
As for LS series motors running 8's, your point is? There are plenty of 4.6L mod motors running's 8's and faster. A whooole lot more mods run these times than LS series motors. Take a look for yourself
http://www.modmaxracing.com/
http://www.foxlakeracing.com/
Have a nice day. ;)
Both the LS1 and LS6 were somewhat under-rated from the factory as I allude to above, but I seriously hope you do not believe anybody is dumb enough to believe they dyno at 400rwhp stock. And, if that number was for modded cars I am not sure what the point was as a modded LS series motor can indeed make 400 rwhp as can most anything else.
As for a LS1 wth a cam change only running 10's. Gotta ring the b.s. bell on this one too. The fastest of the LS series car, the C5 Z06, runs mid 12's bone stock. With NOTHING but a cam change you now run high 10's?.?.?...... a second and a half improvement with nothing but a cam on a n/a car? Um...no, and I cannot imagine anyone else buying such a ridiculous claim. This is like debating with a kid in Junior High.
However, I will point out that 03-04 Cobras run well into the 10's all the time with simple bolt ons (pulley, chip, throttle body, ram air, exhaust) and slicks. It may be unfair because the Cobra is supercharged and lends itself to big increases in power easily, but this is racing and racing is not always fair.
Also, the comment about cubic inches was to point out what should have been an obvious fact. Ford's modular V-8's can match LS series power levels with fewer cubic inches even when n/a. In other words the LS series motors HAVE TO have the cubic inches to make big power, the Ford's can do it smaller and only get better as they get bigger. I agree that cubic inches are a good thing, but what happens when the Ford motors are as big (and mod motors can be bigger than 6.0L) as the LS motors? Nothing good for your side. That one apparently just went right over your head.
As for the Cobra's 4v being the only motor worth a "fuck"... every LS series motor sold in a car in America uses cast pistons just like the standard DOHC Ford V-8's (MkVIII, Aviator, etc.) So by your standard every LS series motor sucks? Good argument there Newton.
As for LS series motors running 8's, your point is? There are plenty of 4.6L mod motors running's 8's and faster. A whooole lot more mods run these times than LS series motors. Take a look for yourself
http://www.modmaxracing.com/
http://www.foxlakeracing.com/
Have a nice day. ;)
black84z28
12-29-2004, 12:39 PM
First of all b.s., stock LS1's do not make 400hp at the crank. I have a friend who ran a dyno until about a year ago and I have literally seen hundreds of cars run accross it. LS6 powered Z06's only dyno in the 355 rwhp range (that equates to about 415 hp at the crank) And that is the stoutest LS series motor sold on our shores to date!
Both the LS1 and LS6 were somewhat under-rated from the factory as I allude to above, but I seriously hope you do not believe anybody is dumb enough to believe they dyno at 400rwhp stock. And, if that number was for modded cars I am not sure what the point was as a modded LS series motor can indeed make 400 rwhp as can most anything else.
As for a LS1 wth a cam change only running 10's. Gotta ring the b.s. bell on this one too. The fastest of the LS series car, the C5 Z06, runs mid 12's bone stock. With NOTHING but a cam change you now run high 10's?.?.?...... a second and a half improvement with nothing but a cam on a n/a car? Um...no, and I cannot imagine anyone else buying such a ridiculous claim. This is like debating with a kid in Junior High.
However, I will point out that 03-04 Cobras run well into the 10's all the time with simple bolt ons (pulley, chip, throttle body, ram air, exhaust) and slicks. It may be unfair because the Cobra is supercharged and lends itself to big increases in power easily, but this is racing and racing is not always fair.
Also, the comment about cubic inches was to point out what should have been an obvious fact. Ford's modular V-8's can match LS series power levels with fewer cubic inches even when n/a. In other words the LS series motors HAVE TO have the cubic inches to make big power, the Ford's can do it smaller and only get better as they get bigger. I agree that cubic inches are a good thing, but what happens when the Ford motors are as big (and mod motors can be bigger than 6.0L) as the LS motors? Nothing good for your side. That one apparently just went right over your head.
As for the Cobra's 4v being the only motor worth a "fuck"... every LS series motor sold in a car in America uses cast pistons just like the standard DOHC Ford V-8's (MkVIII, Aviator, etc.) So by your standard every LS series motor sucks? Good argument there Newton.
As for LS series motors running 8's, your point is? There are plenty of 4.6L mod motors running's 8's and faster. A whooole lot more mods run these times than LS series motors. Take a look for yourself
http://www.modmaxracing.com/
http://www.foxlakeracing.com/
Have a nice day. ;)well i guess alot of engine dyno tests are wrong...when i say a ls1 dynos 400hp its at the crank..."reading comprehension"...if i was talking about the car i would mention a 98-02 car and rwhp...right?...pick up a super chevy or chevy high performance where these motors were dynoed...its publisized..
http://www.airflowresearch.com/dyno/ls1_030804.htm
here is a STOCK ls1 dynoing 428hp with a set of long tubes...
the fastest ls1 car with "only a cam" change is a class of cars racing...the only thing that was internally done to the car and it ran a 10.93..other things could be done...dont be so stupid..too bad a kid in juniour high has to set out and explain it to you...look for a hotrod article a few months back...its has the nations fastest ls1 cars..
looky here....http://www.ls1.com/qtrmile1.htm[/url]
look at number 39?...whats this?....is that a 10.88@127 with just exhaust/convertor programming and nitrous?...looks to me likes that not even alot of nitrous!....no cam or heads were mentioned...good for a junior high kid?...
holy shit...look at 38!!!...he has a 10.88 also!...nothing major was done!....number 33?....ouch...even faster!...and these cars didn't even have a cam change!..so who is wrong?...oh yea...the fastest known stock zo6 ran a 11.5@118mph..do some more research
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-162655
yes...the cobra can run in the 10s...its fi!...fi motors respond well to exhaust and other mods because svt corked those cars up from the factory....yea...racing is not fair like how my friends cobra lost on the highway to a firends modded 94 talon...imagine that...a 4banger..
lol...i love the cubic inch argument...ford blah blah...THATS WHY ALL THE BIG GUYS STROKE THOSE MOTORS!...what is a 331?...a stroker with more cu inches..if you wanna go fast beyond bench racing in chat forums...you will notice that the motor is a giant air pump...more air you can stuff in it...the more power it will make!..hence wanting cu inches..i saw something of a twin turbo 655cu inch(?) pontiac motor making over 2800hp....you gonna do that with a 350 pontiac?...no..lin the end its cubic inhes or have a power adder that can make up for the cubic inches and force as much air in that motor as possible....but a 4.6 n/a will not take on a ls1 n/a....whats the fastest 4.6 mod motor n/a?....lol...i can pretty much bet it wont beat the fastest ls1
i mentioned the cobra 4v because ford slapped great parts in in...for a FORCED INDUCTION car you happen to need parts like the manley rods and wiseco pistons thee motors have...they did that car right and if you know anything about the 4.6 rods on the n/a cars...you know those and the crank are not known as the strongest..still pretty funny when a cast piston ls1 can still run a 9.6@138 with a stock bottom end/heads..good reasoning newton?...dumbass
yea...alot of cars can be fast with power adders...point is?...i can show you a vid of a ls1 car running a 7.50...if you have the cash...anything will be a moster at the track..
Both the LS1 and LS6 were somewhat under-rated from the factory as I allude to above, but I seriously hope you do not believe anybody is dumb enough to believe they dyno at 400rwhp stock. And, if that number was for modded cars I am not sure what the point was as a modded LS series motor can indeed make 400 rwhp as can most anything else.
As for a LS1 wth a cam change only running 10's. Gotta ring the b.s. bell on this one too. The fastest of the LS series car, the C5 Z06, runs mid 12's bone stock. With NOTHING but a cam change you now run high 10's?.?.?...... a second and a half improvement with nothing but a cam on a n/a car? Um...no, and I cannot imagine anyone else buying such a ridiculous claim. This is like debating with a kid in Junior High.
However, I will point out that 03-04 Cobras run well into the 10's all the time with simple bolt ons (pulley, chip, throttle body, ram air, exhaust) and slicks. It may be unfair because the Cobra is supercharged and lends itself to big increases in power easily, but this is racing and racing is not always fair.
Also, the comment about cubic inches was to point out what should have been an obvious fact. Ford's modular V-8's can match LS series power levels with fewer cubic inches even when n/a. In other words the LS series motors HAVE TO have the cubic inches to make big power, the Ford's can do it smaller and only get better as they get bigger. I agree that cubic inches are a good thing, but what happens when the Ford motors are as big (and mod motors can be bigger than 6.0L) as the LS motors? Nothing good for your side. That one apparently just went right over your head.
As for the Cobra's 4v being the only motor worth a "fuck"... every LS series motor sold in a car in America uses cast pistons just like the standard DOHC Ford V-8's (MkVIII, Aviator, etc.) So by your standard every LS series motor sucks? Good argument there Newton.
As for LS series motors running 8's, your point is? There are plenty of 4.6L mod motors running's 8's and faster. A whooole lot more mods run these times than LS series motors. Take a look for yourself
http://www.modmaxracing.com/
http://www.foxlakeracing.com/
Have a nice day. ;)well i guess alot of engine dyno tests are wrong...when i say a ls1 dynos 400hp its at the crank..."reading comprehension"...if i was talking about the car i would mention a 98-02 car and rwhp...right?...pick up a super chevy or chevy high performance where these motors were dynoed...its publisized..
http://www.airflowresearch.com/dyno/ls1_030804.htm
here is a STOCK ls1 dynoing 428hp with a set of long tubes...
the fastest ls1 car with "only a cam" change is a class of cars racing...the only thing that was internally done to the car and it ran a 10.93..other things could be done...dont be so stupid..too bad a kid in juniour high has to set out and explain it to you...look for a hotrod article a few months back...its has the nations fastest ls1 cars..
looky here....http://www.ls1.com/qtrmile1.htm[/url]
look at number 39?...whats this?....is that a 10.88@127 with just exhaust/convertor programming and nitrous?...looks to me likes that not even alot of nitrous!....no cam or heads were mentioned...good for a junior high kid?...
holy shit...look at 38!!!...he has a 10.88 also!...nothing major was done!....number 33?....ouch...even faster!...and these cars didn't even have a cam change!..so who is wrong?...oh yea...the fastest known stock zo6 ran a 11.5@118mph..do some more research
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-162655
yes...the cobra can run in the 10s...its fi!...fi motors respond well to exhaust and other mods because svt corked those cars up from the factory....yea...racing is not fair like how my friends cobra lost on the highway to a firends modded 94 talon...imagine that...a 4banger..
lol...i love the cubic inch argument...ford blah blah...THATS WHY ALL THE BIG GUYS STROKE THOSE MOTORS!...what is a 331?...a stroker with more cu inches..if you wanna go fast beyond bench racing in chat forums...you will notice that the motor is a giant air pump...more air you can stuff in it...the more power it will make!..hence wanting cu inches..i saw something of a twin turbo 655cu inch(?) pontiac motor making over 2800hp....you gonna do that with a 350 pontiac?...no..lin the end its cubic inhes or have a power adder that can make up for the cubic inches and force as much air in that motor as possible....but a 4.6 n/a will not take on a ls1 n/a....whats the fastest 4.6 mod motor n/a?....lol...i can pretty much bet it wont beat the fastest ls1
i mentioned the cobra 4v because ford slapped great parts in in...for a FORCED INDUCTION car you happen to need parts like the manley rods and wiseco pistons thee motors have...they did that car right and if you know anything about the 4.6 rods on the n/a cars...you know those and the crank are not known as the strongest..still pretty funny when a cast piston ls1 can still run a 9.6@138 with a stock bottom end/heads..good reasoning newton?...dumbass
yea...alot of cars can be fast with power adders...point is?...i can show you a vid of a ls1 car running a 7.50...if you have the cash...anything will be a moster at the track..
GTStang
12-29-2004, 12:52 PM
are you kidding me?...the ls1 itself is a very unrated motor...a few motors have been dynoed at 400 at the crank...stock..ALSO...IF YOU WANNA SEE WHAT AN LS1 CAN DO...head over to tremek.com...they have a STOCk head and STOCK bottom end car running 9.6@138mph
http://www.ls1speed.com/movies/jugga964.WMV
got any stangs that can do that...the only 4.6 mod motor that is worth a fuck is the 4v cobra motor because ford built that motor to take power and dumped the goodies like rods and pistons in it from the factory.....any cam only mod cars running high 10s with a cam change only?...ls cars are...
is there a ls1 car in the 8s?...i am pretty sure there is
and the crap about gm making power with a smaller displacement motor...wtf...everyone knows the more cubes you have the more power you can make...if that wasn't so people with mod cars like shaun highland would NEVER stroke those motors out
Wow a stock blocked stuffed wit thousands of dollars of new forged internals, worked over till there is no tom stock heads ran 9's I'm impressed...... Wait..... maybe I'm not cause they ran 9's wit an 03-04 cobra without even cracking a valve cover gasket and only 8 months after the cars could be bought. But your right the LS1 is the superior motor......
So yes we do have Stangs that can do that and I bet you more of them and they did it for less money.
Sean Hyland (spell it right if your gonna talk about them) all they need to stroke Mod motors for more power huh? Gee that is funny cause the John Mehovitz 6.77@209mph Mod Mustang is powered by a Sean Hyland motor and what do you know it's the stock 281cu.!
Cubes are a wonderful thing.... but it's not the only way to make power.
http://www.ls1speed.com/movies/jugga964.WMV
got any stangs that can do that...the only 4.6 mod motor that is worth a fuck is the 4v cobra motor because ford built that motor to take power and dumped the goodies like rods and pistons in it from the factory.....any cam only mod cars running high 10s with a cam change only?...ls cars are...
is there a ls1 car in the 8s?...i am pretty sure there is
and the crap about gm making power with a smaller displacement motor...wtf...everyone knows the more cubes you have the more power you can make...if that wasn't so people with mod cars like shaun highland would NEVER stroke those motors out
Wow a stock blocked stuffed wit thousands of dollars of new forged internals, worked over till there is no tom stock heads ran 9's I'm impressed...... Wait..... maybe I'm not cause they ran 9's wit an 03-04 cobra without even cracking a valve cover gasket and only 8 months after the cars could be bought. But your right the LS1 is the superior motor......
So yes we do have Stangs that can do that and I bet you more of them and they did it for less money.
Sean Hyland (spell it right if your gonna talk about them) all they need to stroke Mod motors for more power huh? Gee that is funny cause the John Mehovitz 6.77@209mph Mod Mustang is powered by a Sean Hyland motor and what do you know it's the stock 281cu.!
Cubes are a wonderful thing.... but it's not the only way to make power.
black84z28
12-29-2004, 12:55 PM
when something says stock bottom end and stock heads...what does that mean?...new thousand of dollars stuffed in the block isn't stock
so you mean that STOCK 281 uses shm parts?...that bottom end is NOT stock!
http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/
John Mehovitz - Fastest 4.6 Modular Engine In The World
6.77@209mph - NHRA Record Holder - Winners use SHM 4.6 Power
John, Mehovitz, the world's fastest 4.6 drag car makes more than 1700hp from only 281 cubic inches! John has relied on SHM engines using exclusive SHM products like our dual valve spring kit, billet camshafts and 300M connecting rods to product the incredible power that he makes, reliably. John has consistently been the worlds fastest 4.6 for over 7 years running - relying on SHM 4.6 Power all the way.
so you mean that STOCK 281 uses shm parts?...that bottom end is NOT stock!
http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/
John Mehovitz - Fastest 4.6 Modular Engine In The World
6.77@209mph - NHRA Record Holder - Winners use SHM 4.6 Power
John, Mehovitz, the world's fastest 4.6 drag car makes more than 1700hp from only 281 cubic inches! John has relied on SHM engines using exclusive SHM products like our dual valve spring kit, billet camshafts and 300M connecting rods to product the incredible power that he makes, reliably. John has consistently been the worlds fastest 4.6 for over 7 years running - relying on SHM 4.6 Power all the way.
GTStang
12-29-2004, 01:12 PM
well i guess alot of engine dyno tests are wrong...when i say a ls1 dynos 400hp its at the crank..."reading comprehension"...if i was talking about the car i would mention a 98-02 car and rwhp...right?...pick up a super chevy or chevy high performance where these motors were dynoed...its publisized..
http://www.airflowresearch.com/dyno/ls1_030804.htm
here is a STOCK ls1 dynoing 428hp with a set of long tubes...
Stock LS1? haha more BS. this is from the top of that chart.
Baseline Engine: Stock LS-1 Longblock, LS-6 Intake Manifold, 1 3/4"
Headers-Long Tube Style, 3" Flowmaster Mufflers. *
VS
All Same As Above WithThe Exception Of: AFR LS-1 "205" CNC Heads, Fast
Intake Manifold, Cam-224/228 @.050 .581 Lift, 78mm Ported Throttle Body.
the fastest ls1 car with "only a cam" change is a class of cars racing...the only thing that was internally done to the car and it ran a 10.93..other things could be done...dont be so stupid..too bad a kid in juniour high has to set out and explain it to you...look for a hotrod article a few months back...its has the nations fastest ls1 cars..
looky here....http://www.ls1.com/qtrmile1.htm[/url]
look at number 39?...whats this?....is that a 10.88@127 with just exhaust/convertor programming and nitrous?...looks to me likes that not even alot of nitrous!....no cam or heads were mentioned...good for a junior high kid?...
holy shit...look at 38!!!...he has a 10.88 also!...nothing major was done!....number 33?....ouch...even faster!...and these cars didn't even have a cam change!..so who is wrong?...oh yea...the fastest known stock zo6 ran a 11.5@118mph..do some more research
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-162655
#39 175hp shot, 364cu. so is it still internally stock or not? Maybe it's just a typo? But you can't answer it cause it's just a list on the internet!!!
#38 NX nitrous(unspecified amount) he could have 300HP shot going into the dam thing. Do you know the answer? No again this is just a list that anybody could throw themselves on.
So great you found a vague list which you can't prove or disprove.
Wow great research you did... those times are for the Z06 on M/T slicks
My Personal Bests in 2002 Z06
Z06 with Airbox lid off and Et Streets 1-24-2003:
http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30089
60' - 1.675
330 - 4.822
1/8 - 7.442
mph - 94.62
1000 - 9.692
1/4 - 11.596
mph - 118.53
http://www.airflowresearch.com/dyno/ls1_030804.htm
here is a STOCK ls1 dynoing 428hp with a set of long tubes...
Stock LS1? haha more BS. this is from the top of that chart.
Baseline Engine: Stock LS-1 Longblock, LS-6 Intake Manifold, 1 3/4"
Headers-Long Tube Style, 3" Flowmaster Mufflers. *
VS
All Same As Above WithThe Exception Of: AFR LS-1 "205" CNC Heads, Fast
Intake Manifold, Cam-224/228 @.050 .581 Lift, 78mm Ported Throttle Body.
the fastest ls1 car with "only a cam" change is a class of cars racing...the only thing that was internally done to the car and it ran a 10.93..other things could be done...dont be so stupid..too bad a kid in juniour high has to set out and explain it to you...look for a hotrod article a few months back...its has the nations fastest ls1 cars..
looky here....http://www.ls1.com/qtrmile1.htm[/url]
look at number 39?...whats this?....is that a 10.88@127 with just exhaust/convertor programming and nitrous?...looks to me likes that not even alot of nitrous!....no cam or heads were mentioned...good for a junior high kid?...
holy shit...look at 38!!!...he has a 10.88 also!...nothing major was done!....number 33?....ouch...even faster!...and these cars didn't even have a cam change!..so who is wrong?...oh yea...the fastest known stock zo6 ran a 11.5@118mph..do some more research
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-162655
#39 175hp shot, 364cu. so is it still internally stock or not? Maybe it's just a typo? But you can't answer it cause it's just a list on the internet!!!
#38 NX nitrous(unspecified amount) he could have 300HP shot going into the dam thing. Do you know the answer? No again this is just a list that anybody could throw themselves on.
So great you found a vague list which you can't prove or disprove.
Wow great research you did... those times are for the Z06 on M/T slicks
My Personal Bests in 2002 Z06
Z06 with Airbox lid off and Et Streets 1-24-2003:
http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30089
60' - 1.675
330 - 4.822
1/8 - 7.442
mph - 94.62
1000 - 9.692
1/4 - 11.596
mph - 118.53
GTStang
12-29-2004, 01:20 PM
when something says stock bottom end and stock heads...what does that mean?...new thousand of dollars stuffed in the block isn't stock
so you mean that STOCK 281 uses shm parts?...that bottom end is NOT stock!
http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/
John Mehovitz - Fastest 4.6 Modular Engine In The World
6.77@209mph - NHRA Record Holder - Winners use SHM 4.6 Power
John, Mehovitz, the world's fastest 4.6 drag car makes more than 1700hp from only 281 cubic inches! John has relied on SHM engines using exclusive SHM products like our dual valve spring kit, billet camshafts and 300M connecting rods to product the incredible power that he makes, reliably. John has consistently been the worlds fastest 4.6 for over 7 years running - relying on SHM 4.6 Power all the way.
Stock bottom end could actually mean a lot of things and you know it. Just like saying stock heads means he could of used stock casting and worked them over till nothing more was left to do. Go find ever specific about that car and show us cause the video proves nothing about the car othjer than that it is very fast.
Where did I ever claim or say that Mehovitz car is a stock bottom end? I said it was a Sean hyland built powerplant becuase you said Hyland stroked Mod motor cause the need more cubes to get power out of them. Well here they are wit the stock 281cu making that HP don't look like they need a stroker there....
so you mean that STOCK 281 uses shm parts?...that bottom end is NOT stock!
http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/
John Mehovitz - Fastest 4.6 Modular Engine In The World
6.77@209mph - NHRA Record Holder - Winners use SHM 4.6 Power
John, Mehovitz, the world's fastest 4.6 drag car makes more than 1700hp from only 281 cubic inches! John has relied on SHM engines using exclusive SHM products like our dual valve spring kit, billet camshafts and 300M connecting rods to product the incredible power that he makes, reliably. John has consistently been the worlds fastest 4.6 for over 7 years running - relying on SHM 4.6 Power all the way.
Stock bottom end could actually mean a lot of things and you know it. Just like saying stock heads means he could of used stock casting and worked them over till nothing more was left to do. Go find ever specific about that car and show us cause the video proves nothing about the car othjer than that it is very fast.
Where did I ever claim or say that Mehovitz car is a stock bottom end? I said it was a Sean hyland built powerplant becuase you said Hyland stroked Mod motor cause the need more cubes to get power out of them. Well here they are wit the stock 281cu making that HP don't look like they need a stroker there....
black84z28
12-29-2004, 01:25 PM
little do you know the 01-2 cars came stock with ls6 intake...bs?...when they dyno engines they usually use headers and exhaust for a reason...now dont they?...notice i mentioned with a set of long tubes?...how many engine dyno people you know of dont run headers on their engine dynoes?...
funny how when proved wrong you shoot down info provided...how many 03 cobras have run past that 12.0 mark STOCK?...slicks does not mean the car is not stock...STOCK= no engine modding
funny how when proved wrong you shoot down info provided...how many 03 cobras have run past that 12.0 mark STOCK?...slicks does not mean the car is not stock...STOCK= no engine modding
black84z28
12-29-2004, 01:29 PM
Stock bottom end could actually mean a lot of things and you know it. Just like saying stock heads means he could of used stock casting and worked them over till nothing more was left to do. Go find ever specific about that car and show us cause the video proves nothing about the car othjer than that it is very fast.
Where did I ever claim or say that Mehovitz car is a stock bottom end? I said it was a Sean hyland built powerplant becuase you said Hyland stroked Mod motor cause the need more cubes to get power out of them. Well here they are wit the stock 281cu making that HP don't look like they need a stroker there....
stock bottom end means just that...nothing done...if so it would be a modded bottom end...right?...you said yourself in a post it was a STOCK 281..nothing was modded?.....no stock 281 is gonna take the boost needed to propel that car to a 209mph trap...the car kept a 281 cu inch motor but it was far from stock...the rods in the non 03-04 cobra 4v suck...they will not take the abuse a turbo will dish out
Where did I ever claim or say that Mehovitz car is a stock bottom end? I said it was a Sean hyland built powerplant becuase you said Hyland stroked Mod motor cause the need more cubes to get power out of them. Well here they are wit the stock 281cu making that HP don't look like they need a stroker there....
stock bottom end means just that...nothing done...if so it would be a modded bottom end...right?...you said yourself in a post it was a STOCK 281..nothing was modded?.....no stock 281 is gonna take the boost needed to propel that car to a 209mph trap...the car kept a 281 cu inch motor but it was far from stock...the rods in the non 03-04 cobra 4v suck...they will not take the abuse a turbo will dish out
GTStang
12-29-2004, 03:49 PM
stock bottom end means just that...nothing done...if so it would be a modded bottom end...right?...you said yourself in a post it was a STOCK 281..nothing was modded?.....no stock 281 is gonna take the boost needed to propel that car to a 209mph trap...the car kept a 281 cu inch motor but it was far from stock...the rods in the non 03-04 cobra 4v suck...they will not take the abuse a turbo will dish out
Your right about the first one I was wrong sorry.
But stop trying to tell me what I said, I said stock 281cu., cu=cubic inches. I did not say the stock 281 block, stock 281 internals, or stock 281. I put cu. at the end noting the displacement of the motor and used it for reference about your comment of stroking the 4.6 motor.
Also post the website about that stock bottom end, stock head F-body with exact details on what has been done to it. That will end any arguement about that also.
Your right about the first one I was wrong sorry.
But stop trying to tell me what I said, I said stock 281cu., cu=cubic inches. I did not say the stock 281 block, stock 281 internals, or stock 281. I put cu. at the end noting the displacement of the motor and used it for reference about your comment of stroking the 4.6 motor.
Also post the website about that stock bottom end, stock head F-body with exact details on what has been done to it. That will end any arguement about that also.
black84z28
12-29-2004, 06:03 PM
Your right about the first one I was wrong sorry.
Also post the website about that stock bottom end, stock head F-body with exact details on what has been done to it. That will end any arguement about that also.
cam only cars (http://http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187330)
stock motor (http://http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235743)
fastest na car (http://http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246406)
site itself...ls1 tech (http://http://ls1tech.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=85) :iceslolan
Also post the website about that stock bottom end, stock head F-body with exact details on what has been done to it. That will end any arguement about that also.
cam only cars (http://http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187330)
stock motor (http://http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235743)
fastest na car (http://http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246406)
site itself...ls1 tech (http://http://ls1tech.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=85) :iceslolan
syr74
12-29-2004, 08:54 PM
well i guess alot of engine dyno tests are wrong...when i say a ls1 dynos 400hp its at the crank..."reading comprehension"...if i was talking about the car i would mention a 98-02 car and rwhp...right?...pick up a super chevy or chevy high performance where these motors were dynoed...its publisized..
http://www.airflowresearch.com/dyno/ls1_030804.htm
here is a STOCK ls1 dynoing 428hp with a set of long tubes...
the fastest ls1 car with "only a cam" change is a class of cars racing...the only thing that was internally done to the car and it ran a 10.93..other things could be done...dont be so stupid..too bad a kid in juniour high has to set out and explain it to you...look for a hotrod article a few months back...its has the nations fastest ls1 cars..
looky here....http://www.ls1.com/qtrmile1.htm[/url]
look at number 39?...whats this?....is that a 10.88@127 with just exhaust/convertor programming and nitrous?...looks to me likes that not even alot of nitrous!....no cam or heads were mentioned...good for a junior high kid?...
holy shit...look at 38!!!...he has a 10.88 also!...nothing major was done!....number 33?....ouch...even faster!...and these cars didn't even have a cam change!..so who is wrong?...oh yea...the fastest known stock zo6 ran a 11.5@118mph..do some more research
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-162655
yes...the cobra can run in the 10s...its fi!...fi motors respond well to exhaust and other mods because svt corked those cars up from the factory....yea...racing is not fair like how my friends cobra lost on the highway to a firends modded 94 talon...imagine that...a 4banger..
lol...i love the cubic inch argument...ford blah blah...THATS WHY ALL THE BIG GUYS STROKE THOSE MOTORS!...what is a 331?...a stroker with more cu inches..if you wanna go fast beyond bench racing in chat forums...you will notice that the motor is a giant air pump...more air you can stuff in it...the more power it will make!..hence wanting cu inches..i saw something of a twin turbo 655cu inch(?) pontiac motor making over 2800hp....you gonna do that with a 350 pontiac?...no..lin the end its cubic inhes or have a power adder that can make up for the cubic inches and force as much air in that motor as possible....but a 4.6 n/a will not take on a ls1 n/a....whats the fastest 4.6 mod motor n/a?....lol...i can pretty much bet it wont beat the fastest ls1
i mentioned the cobra 4v because ford slapped great parts in in...for a FORCED INDUCTION car you happen to need parts like the manley rods and wiseco pistons thee motors have...they did that car right and if you know anything about the 4.6 rods on the n/a cars...you know those and the crank are not known as the strongest..still pretty funny when a cast piston ls1 can still run a 9.6@138 with a stock bottom end/heads..good reasoning newton?...dumbass
yea...alot of cars can be fast with power adders...point is?...i can show you a vid of a ls1 car running a 7.50...if you have the cash...anything will be a moster at the track..
Oh wow, another list of bs to wade through. Ok, first of all for some reason you are getting confused about rwhp, crank hp, and what not. Z06's do indeed dyno, on a dynojet, at about 355rwhp. And, giving them a 15 percent correction that comes out to about 418hp at the crank. If you have some fantasy that this is incorrect more power to you, but as I have seen this a LOT of times and on more than one dyno I'm going to stick to it....roflmao
An LS1 would not dyno at 400 crank hp stock if God was breathing into it. Corrected I have seen some of the C5 Vette's hit 365 crank hp or so, but no more than that and that is a stout example of that particular LS1. Now, if you want to argue (and you seem to) that GM's drivetrain has some ridiculous amount of parasitic drag and is sub-par be my guest. Although, I doubt there is much to substantiate this amount of pd as that would equate to over 20% parasitic drag on a C5's LS1, not even the f-body, based on typical rwhp dyno numbers! Maybe there is an awd option on the Vette which I missed....
BTW, as for those magical 400hp LS1's you brought it up, so why don't YOU find it? (Good luck, and I am sure we will be waiting a while...and this time try to make sure your info is accurate as you seem to have a problem with this)
As for your stock 428hp LS1, some indeed came down the line with LS6 manifolds and using LS6 blocks (difference in block is really a number)....your point is? However, there are two problems with your "stock" claim. First of all he mentions that he is going through the long tubes which you acknowledge, but what you do not acknowledge is that he is running through what amounts to a true dual 3" exhaust with no cats. And, it does not say anything about the "tune"" of the programming which has obviously received a tweak.
Most people do use long tubes on an engine dyno, that does not make it stock. And, this car has far more adding to the power than that. I got good money betting this guy was running an air horn with a fan too which boosts power numbers as well. He also certainly degreed the cam, blah, blah. All very typical, and none of it stock. If I did the same to an 04 Cobra it would hit 500hp and change, but it's "still stock" right? Ridiculous.
I also got a good laugh out of your "cam only" LS1. There are cars running these times with no "internal mods" other than cams. However, they are all runnig a virtually full-race suspension setup, the cars have been lightened, they have major exahust mods, race-prepped trannys, 4.56 gears in 12-bolts or 9" rears, they run full slicks, they have computer mods the list goes on, and on, and on. It's ridiculius to call these "cam-only" cars. I could stick a 4.6L DOHC with cams in a Triumph Spitfire and runs 10's all day on slicks with a 9 inch and the right gears, but it would be ludicrous to call it otherwise stock with cams .
As for you list of LS1's in the tens. In reference to your comment that 175hp is not a lot of nitrous on #39 there, have you been inhaling nitrous? 175hp is a big-ass shot of gas for a mild car. He mentions converter, programming, nitrous and that he is running slicks and has a STROKED MOTOR! lol Wow, all that and he ran high tens on slicks. Good God I would hope so !
Number 38 is running a prepped suspension, exhaust, programming, a cam and nitrous in an unspecified amount that he admits to. As GT alluded to he could be running a 250hp shot for all we know on full slicks with a forged bottom end! Since he does not mention the slicks that we know he is running anything is possible.
Also, in the link YOU POSTED the guy claims the fastest bone stock Z06 ran an 11.8xx bone stock as the 11.5 had some mods that were admitted to. And, I hate to break it to you, but the guy who claims to have run an 11.8 bone stock is a liar. Sorry.... I can claim I drove an 05 GT to a 12.5 but it would not pass the smell test. Neither does uber-Z06 mans claim. You are like a kid who believes whatever they are told. I have some bad news for you Santa ain't real either.
I have been at the track a lot of times and seen many Vettes run under good conditions with good drivers. Once again, everyone in this forum is going to know that a bone stock 11.8 second Z06 is total bullshit. 12.3's or even 12.2's I would buy. 11.8, no way in hell. This is another of those magical LS1's that exists but you never, ever see at the track. lol
And, I don't get the point about mentioning the modded Eclipse, but if it makes you feel better. I know some guys with imports too. As a matter of fact the crowd I typically run around with usually consists of a few 300ZX's, a couple of Supra's (MkIII and Mk IV), a LS1 Z-28, a Viper (yeah, a Viper.....I don't care for 'em personally) a MR2 (damn fast little sucker too...still looks weird) and a Cobra or two. So, are we comparing friends imports now too?
FYI the fastest 4.6L SOHC 2-valve (NOT DOHC 4-valve) mod-motored car that is n/a is in one of the links I gave you and he ran 10.21 still at 281ci. Damn, wonder what would happen if shoved the 6.0L big-bore stroker under that setup? I am sure another 90ci wouldn't help though....lol I posted that one because he is running the "piece of shit" motor you alluded to. There are much faster n/a cars running more cubes or DOHC's
Also, this cubic inches thing seem to be confusing you. I never said cubes were not good, just that Chevy needs moe to be as fast...get it? Simplified enough for you now? As for the mod motors internals, the rods are the weak link just as rod-bolts are the weak link in big power LS1's. However, unless you force feed the mod motor they can, and regularly do, take a bit over 500hp even with the standard connecting rods and have been made to take more even though that is pushing your luck. As for stock bottom end LS1's they tend to start pushing their luck at about the same hp level.
When push comes to shove you just sound like another kid with no idea what in the hell he is talking about pasting portions of info from websites. Perhaps if you knew what you were talking about you would know why so much of what you say is obvious bullshit to those who have a clue.
Class dismissed.
http://www.airflowresearch.com/dyno/ls1_030804.htm
here is a STOCK ls1 dynoing 428hp with a set of long tubes...
the fastest ls1 car with "only a cam" change is a class of cars racing...the only thing that was internally done to the car and it ran a 10.93..other things could be done...dont be so stupid..too bad a kid in juniour high has to set out and explain it to you...look for a hotrod article a few months back...its has the nations fastest ls1 cars..
looky here....http://www.ls1.com/qtrmile1.htm[/url]
look at number 39?...whats this?....is that a 10.88@127 with just exhaust/convertor programming and nitrous?...looks to me likes that not even alot of nitrous!....no cam or heads were mentioned...good for a junior high kid?...
holy shit...look at 38!!!...he has a 10.88 also!...nothing major was done!....number 33?....ouch...even faster!...and these cars didn't even have a cam change!..so who is wrong?...oh yea...the fastest known stock zo6 ran a 11.5@118mph..do some more research
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-162655
yes...the cobra can run in the 10s...its fi!...fi motors respond well to exhaust and other mods because svt corked those cars up from the factory....yea...racing is not fair like how my friends cobra lost on the highway to a firends modded 94 talon...imagine that...a 4banger..
lol...i love the cubic inch argument...ford blah blah...THATS WHY ALL THE BIG GUYS STROKE THOSE MOTORS!...what is a 331?...a stroker with more cu inches..if you wanna go fast beyond bench racing in chat forums...you will notice that the motor is a giant air pump...more air you can stuff in it...the more power it will make!..hence wanting cu inches..i saw something of a twin turbo 655cu inch(?) pontiac motor making over 2800hp....you gonna do that with a 350 pontiac?...no..lin the end its cubic inhes or have a power adder that can make up for the cubic inches and force as much air in that motor as possible....but a 4.6 n/a will not take on a ls1 n/a....whats the fastest 4.6 mod motor n/a?....lol...i can pretty much bet it wont beat the fastest ls1
i mentioned the cobra 4v because ford slapped great parts in in...for a FORCED INDUCTION car you happen to need parts like the manley rods and wiseco pistons thee motors have...they did that car right and if you know anything about the 4.6 rods on the n/a cars...you know those and the crank are not known as the strongest..still pretty funny when a cast piston ls1 can still run a 9.6@138 with a stock bottom end/heads..good reasoning newton?...dumbass
yea...alot of cars can be fast with power adders...point is?...i can show you a vid of a ls1 car running a 7.50...if you have the cash...anything will be a moster at the track..
Oh wow, another list of bs to wade through. Ok, first of all for some reason you are getting confused about rwhp, crank hp, and what not. Z06's do indeed dyno, on a dynojet, at about 355rwhp. And, giving them a 15 percent correction that comes out to about 418hp at the crank. If you have some fantasy that this is incorrect more power to you, but as I have seen this a LOT of times and on more than one dyno I'm going to stick to it....roflmao
An LS1 would not dyno at 400 crank hp stock if God was breathing into it. Corrected I have seen some of the C5 Vette's hit 365 crank hp or so, but no more than that and that is a stout example of that particular LS1. Now, if you want to argue (and you seem to) that GM's drivetrain has some ridiculous amount of parasitic drag and is sub-par be my guest. Although, I doubt there is much to substantiate this amount of pd as that would equate to over 20% parasitic drag on a C5's LS1, not even the f-body, based on typical rwhp dyno numbers! Maybe there is an awd option on the Vette which I missed....
BTW, as for those magical 400hp LS1's you brought it up, so why don't YOU find it? (Good luck, and I am sure we will be waiting a while...and this time try to make sure your info is accurate as you seem to have a problem with this)
As for your stock 428hp LS1, some indeed came down the line with LS6 manifolds and using LS6 blocks (difference in block is really a number)....your point is? However, there are two problems with your "stock" claim. First of all he mentions that he is going through the long tubes which you acknowledge, but what you do not acknowledge is that he is running through what amounts to a true dual 3" exhaust with no cats. And, it does not say anything about the "tune"" of the programming which has obviously received a tweak.
Most people do use long tubes on an engine dyno, that does not make it stock. And, this car has far more adding to the power than that. I got good money betting this guy was running an air horn with a fan too which boosts power numbers as well. He also certainly degreed the cam, blah, blah. All very typical, and none of it stock. If I did the same to an 04 Cobra it would hit 500hp and change, but it's "still stock" right? Ridiculous.
I also got a good laugh out of your "cam only" LS1. There are cars running these times with no "internal mods" other than cams. However, they are all runnig a virtually full-race suspension setup, the cars have been lightened, they have major exahust mods, race-prepped trannys, 4.56 gears in 12-bolts or 9" rears, they run full slicks, they have computer mods the list goes on, and on, and on. It's ridiculius to call these "cam-only" cars. I could stick a 4.6L DOHC with cams in a Triumph Spitfire and runs 10's all day on slicks with a 9 inch and the right gears, but it would be ludicrous to call it otherwise stock with cams .
As for you list of LS1's in the tens. In reference to your comment that 175hp is not a lot of nitrous on #39 there, have you been inhaling nitrous? 175hp is a big-ass shot of gas for a mild car. He mentions converter, programming, nitrous and that he is running slicks and has a STROKED MOTOR! lol Wow, all that and he ran high tens on slicks. Good God I would hope so !
Number 38 is running a prepped suspension, exhaust, programming, a cam and nitrous in an unspecified amount that he admits to. As GT alluded to he could be running a 250hp shot for all we know on full slicks with a forged bottom end! Since he does not mention the slicks that we know he is running anything is possible.
Also, in the link YOU POSTED the guy claims the fastest bone stock Z06 ran an 11.8xx bone stock as the 11.5 had some mods that were admitted to. And, I hate to break it to you, but the guy who claims to have run an 11.8 bone stock is a liar. Sorry.... I can claim I drove an 05 GT to a 12.5 but it would not pass the smell test. Neither does uber-Z06 mans claim. You are like a kid who believes whatever they are told. I have some bad news for you Santa ain't real either.
I have been at the track a lot of times and seen many Vettes run under good conditions with good drivers. Once again, everyone in this forum is going to know that a bone stock 11.8 second Z06 is total bullshit. 12.3's or even 12.2's I would buy. 11.8, no way in hell. This is another of those magical LS1's that exists but you never, ever see at the track. lol
And, I don't get the point about mentioning the modded Eclipse, but if it makes you feel better. I know some guys with imports too. As a matter of fact the crowd I typically run around with usually consists of a few 300ZX's, a couple of Supra's (MkIII and Mk IV), a LS1 Z-28, a Viper (yeah, a Viper.....I don't care for 'em personally) a MR2 (damn fast little sucker too...still looks weird) and a Cobra or two. So, are we comparing friends imports now too?
FYI the fastest 4.6L SOHC 2-valve (NOT DOHC 4-valve) mod-motored car that is n/a is in one of the links I gave you and he ran 10.21 still at 281ci. Damn, wonder what would happen if shoved the 6.0L big-bore stroker under that setup? I am sure another 90ci wouldn't help though....lol I posted that one because he is running the "piece of shit" motor you alluded to. There are much faster n/a cars running more cubes or DOHC's
Also, this cubic inches thing seem to be confusing you. I never said cubes were not good, just that Chevy needs moe to be as fast...get it? Simplified enough for you now? As for the mod motors internals, the rods are the weak link just as rod-bolts are the weak link in big power LS1's. However, unless you force feed the mod motor they can, and regularly do, take a bit over 500hp even with the standard connecting rods and have been made to take more even though that is pushing your luck. As for stock bottom end LS1's they tend to start pushing their luck at about the same hp level.
When push comes to shove you just sound like another kid with no idea what in the hell he is talking about pasting portions of info from websites. Perhaps if you knew what you were talking about you would know why so much of what you say is obvious bullshit to those who have a clue.
Class dismissed.
syr74
12-29-2004, 09:03 PM
I would also point out that every claim I have made has been backed by full info regarding mods and state of tune at the time of the run for any Ford I have cited with links to verify that actually contain the info. The LS1's cited in your (black Z28) posts are very vague and often (usually) there is more to the story than you or they initially admit to. Your credibility is dropping fast.
black84z28
12-29-2004, 09:09 PM
I would also point out that every claim I have made has been backed by full info regarding mods and state of tune at the time of the run for any Ford I have cited with links to verify that actually contain the info. The LS1's cited in your (black Z28) posts are very vague and often (usually) there is more to the story than you or they initially admit to. Your credibility is dropping fast.
yes because its a gm motor ...i post links and you brush them off like any other die hard ford retard...maybe you should go watch some real drag racing instead on bench racing...i am not dissing the ford motor as you are doing the gm motor..a time slip does not lie...nor does a vid.....believe what you want...i posted links and that all i can really do here.....prove my links wrong if you are so uppity about it...this is the problem with the internet...too many KNOW it alls and internet race car builders...
after my 3rd gen is done with the ls1 turbo swap...i sure as hell wont be scared of anything less than a built to shit cobra..this will all be done on 10 inch tires and need to be daily driven...
the point is before you cry baby and go off on your lil hissy fit rampage is that anything can be made fast....just dont forget that you never know what the other has...
lol@ credibility in a forum... :loser:
yes because its a gm motor ...i post links and you brush them off like any other die hard ford retard...maybe you should go watch some real drag racing instead on bench racing...i am not dissing the ford motor as you are doing the gm motor..a time slip does not lie...nor does a vid.....believe what you want...i posted links and that all i can really do here.....prove my links wrong if you are so uppity about it...this is the problem with the internet...too many KNOW it alls and internet race car builders...
after my 3rd gen is done with the ls1 turbo swap...i sure as hell wont be scared of anything less than a built to shit cobra..this will all be done on 10 inch tires and need to be daily driven...
the point is before you cry baby and go off on your lil hissy fit rampage is that anything can be made fast....just dont forget that you never know what the other has...
lol@ credibility in a forum... :loser:
syr74
12-29-2004, 09:25 PM
I went to your links, they were often vague and seldom proved anything. What they did tend to prove is that there was more going on than you alluded to. I don't have to prove your links wrong as you have yet to prove the first one valid accroding to your claimed level of mods! It's all just been vague bullshit.
Your posts contain a lot of omissions when you cite power or times, and show a serious lack of knowledge for how power is actually made. That is why you have no credibility.
As for that LS1 you are supposedly building, I have built a couple turbo motors in the past. And currently, I am putting together a mild mod-motor for my 88 Turbo-Coupe. If your posts are an indication of your mechanical knowledge,....good luck putting together the turbo...you will need it.
Your posts contain a lot of omissions when you cite power or times, and show a serious lack of knowledge for how power is actually made. That is why you have no credibility.
As for that LS1 you are supposedly building, I have built a couple turbo motors in the past. And currently, I am putting together a mild mod-motor for my 88 Turbo-Coupe. If your posts are an indication of your mechanical knowledge,....good luck putting together the turbo...you will need it.
black84z28
12-29-2004, 09:56 PM
If your posts are an indication of your mechanical knowledge,....good luck putting together the turbo...you will need it.
wow...you really are one clueless idiot...you can only take information for what its worth on the internet...like you...i could take you as a idiotic 13 yr old kid that drives his mom's minivan when its parked in the driveway...good luck!..
you wanna be like this...its fine and dandy...but i came here for fun and learn things...you may think you know alot but thats where you are sorta ignorant...but hey...its the internet!...you know nothing of my knowledge or my mechanical ability..so be it..but i know its always alot easier to diss someone on the other end of the computer...now is it?
wow...you really are one clueless idiot...you can only take information for what its worth on the internet...like you...i could take you as a idiotic 13 yr old kid that drives his mom's minivan when its parked in the driveway...good luck!..
you wanna be like this...its fine and dandy...but i came here for fun and learn things...you may think you know alot but thats where you are sorta ignorant...but hey...its the internet!...you know nothing of my knowledge or my mechanical ability..so be it..but i know its always alot easier to diss someone on the other end of the computer...now is it?
syr74
12-29-2004, 10:16 PM
you wanna be like this...its fine and dandy...but i came here for fun and learn things...you may think you know alot but thats where you are sorta ignorant...but hey...its the internet!...you know nothing of my knowledge or my mechanical ability..so be it..but i know its always alot easier to diss someone on the other end of the computer...now is it?
I proved my point. And, I'll call bs wether somebody is on the other side of the country or the other side of the room if some bs needs calling. Your posts give an insight into your knowledge of mechanics. Generally speaking, people who know sound and read like it.
However, if you have anything else to add to the argument you may want to post that, but this is off topic as it has nothing to do with your prior argument. If you feel that you just must vent your inner feelings and nothing else might I suggest pm'ing people?
I proved my point. And, I'll call bs wether somebody is on the other side of the country or the other side of the room if some bs needs calling. Your posts give an insight into your knowledge of mechanics. Generally speaking, people who know sound and read like it.
However, if you have anything else to add to the argument you may want to post that, but this is off topic as it has nothing to do with your prior argument. If you feel that you just must vent your inner feelings and nothing else might I suggest pm'ing people?
black84z28
12-29-2004, 10:37 PM
I proved my point. And, I'll call bs wether somebody is on the other side of the country or the other side of the room if some bs needs calling. Your posts give an insight into your knowledge of mechanics. Generally speaking, people who know sound and read like it.
However, if you have anything else to add to the argument you may want to post that, but this is off topic as it has nothing to do with your prior argument. If you feel that you just must vent your inner feelings and nothing else might I suggest pm'ing people?
why try and convince a retard he is handicapped?... :disappoin
so until someone else chimes in that has more than what little you ad...i wont reply anymore..because you are just gonna try and cry about everything i post...it makes me laugh...oh..thats no good enough or this...give me a break...you have no pointed out anything concrete yourself.....fucking hypocrite
However, if you have anything else to add to the argument you may want to post that, but this is off topic as it has nothing to do with your prior argument. If you feel that you just must vent your inner feelings and nothing else might I suggest pm'ing people?
why try and convince a retard he is handicapped?... :disappoin
so until someone else chimes in that has more than what little you ad...i wont reply anymore..because you are just gonna try and cry about everything i post...it makes me laugh...oh..thats no good enough or this...give me a break...you have no pointed out anything concrete yourself.....fucking hypocrite
syr74
12-29-2004, 10:54 PM
why try and convince a retard he is handicapped?... :disappoin
so until someone else chimes in that has more than what little you ad...i wont reply anymore..because you are just gonna try and cry about everything i post...it makes me laugh...oh..thats no good enough or this...give me a break...you have no pointed out anything concrete yourself.....fucking hypocrite
Still nothing to add I see. First it was about cars that ran tens with x mods. But then, t turned out they had more mods than you intitally claimed. Then, it was about mythical 400 crank hp LS1's, but when prodded for proof you gave none.
I posted a link to a 10-second 281ci SOHC mod-motor on a reputable site that has disclosure of why the car goes as fast as it does along with a good list of mods. (which I did not misrepresent as some folks have done) This is but one example of many solid resources I have given. And, I had to refer you back to this link after I posted it initially as you later asked about fast n/a mod motors! Apparently you did not bother to look at the link as the car is on the front page!
Your "solid sources" consist of Chevy forums where some guy nobody has ever heard of says he did something that nobody ever saw and he cannot tell you how he did it. In the cases where there has been info, and there have been a few, it has either shown that mods were far more intensive than you indicated, (Remember that "tiny" 175hp shot of nitrous?...lol.....How about the "cam only" LS1 that has other bolt ons, computer mods, exhaust, slick, and a chassis/tranny setup from hell?) or the listing of mods was just a quick rundown and very incomplete at best. (Remember the guy with that tiny 175 shot of nitrous who you said had no major mods but somehow has over 360ci?....Look at all those ten second guys who are "cam only" but do not want to give a full list of engine mods.)
I suppose the real question is do you have anything accurate/honest to say about these cars?
so until someone else chimes in that has more than what little you ad...i wont reply anymore..because you are just gonna try and cry about everything i post...it makes me laugh...oh..thats no good enough or this...give me a break...you have no pointed out anything concrete yourself.....fucking hypocrite
Still nothing to add I see. First it was about cars that ran tens with x mods. But then, t turned out they had more mods than you intitally claimed. Then, it was about mythical 400 crank hp LS1's, but when prodded for proof you gave none.
I posted a link to a 10-second 281ci SOHC mod-motor on a reputable site that has disclosure of why the car goes as fast as it does along with a good list of mods. (which I did not misrepresent as some folks have done) This is but one example of many solid resources I have given. And, I had to refer you back to this link after I posted it initially as you later asked about fast n/a mod motors! Apparently you did not bother to look at the link as the car is on the front page!
Your "solid sources" consist of Chevy forums where some guy nobody has ever heard of says he did something that nobody ever saw and he cannot tell you how he did it. In the cases where there has been info, and there have been a few, it has either shown that mods were far more intensive than you indicated, (Remember that "tiny" 175hp shot of nitrous?...lol.....How about the "cam only" LS1 that has other bolt ons, computer mods, exhaust, slick, and a chassis/tranny setup from hell?) or the listing of mods was just a quick rundown and very incomplete at best. (Remember the guy with that tiny 175 shot of nitrous who you said had no major mods but somehow has over 360ci?....Look at all those ten second guys who are "cam only" but do not want to give a full list of engine mods.)
I suppose the real question is do you have anything accurate/honest to say about these cars?
Kurtdg19
12-29-2004, 10:59 PM
Somtimes people seem smarter when they don't talk. :lol2:
Syr74, don't bother. Where is a Mod? Maybe they are to busy laughing their......(fill in the blank).......
Being a fan of a particular engine is great, but please be aware that there are different taste abroad.
Syr74, don't bother. Where is a Mod? Maybe they are to busy laughing their......(fill in the blank).......
Being a fan of a particular engine is great, but please be aware that there are different taste abroad.
Moppie
12-29-2004, 11:58 PM
black84z28 the moment you start flaming other members you lose all respect, and any chance at all of getting your points across.
Its generaly a pretty good sign you have been beaten.
Next time you feel like flaming to try and win an argument I suggest you stop arguing.
If I see it again Ill give you a temporary ban.
Now unforanatly this thread is closed.
Thank you to everyone who kept it clean and flame free for the first 2 pages though, it has provided some very useful information
Unforunatly there is a lot of emotion tied up in peoples love of one make over another, and its especialy strong when your talking GM and Ford fans.
As for which is better?
Well I think this thread shows that neither is better, they are both differnt engines capable of differnt things.
Just remember the LS1 and the rest of its 308 and 350 small block family have been around since the 60s, and have changed little in that time.
The simple fact that the same basic engine design can remain in production for over 40 years, still make massive amounts of power and meet modern emmissions and MPG standards is testimont to it being a great design.
However its old, and its showing its age, I would expect it to replaced before the end of the decade.
The modular OHC Ford engine however has been around only a fraction of that time, its a new design, makes use of more modern technology in its design and is intented to provide Ford with a variety of V8 engines for well into the next decade.
If it didn't make more power per litre than the older GM motor then Ford would have failed miserably.
Its generaly a pretty good sign you have been beaten.
Next time you feel like flaming to try and win an argument I suggest you stop arguing.
If I see it again Ill give you a temporary ban.
Now unforanatly this thread is closed.
Thank you to everyone who kept it clean and flame free for the first 2 pages though, it has provided some very useful information
Unforunatly there is a lot of emotion tied up in peoples love of one make over another, and its especialy strong when your talking GM and Ford fans.
As for which is better?
Well I think this thread shows that neither is better, they are both differnt engines capable of differnt things.
Just remember the LS1 and the rest of its 308 and 350 small block family have been around since the 60s, and have changed little in that time.
The simple fact that the same basic engine design can remain in production for over 40 years, still make massive amounts of power and meet modern emmissions and MPG standards is testimont to it being a great design.
However its old, and its showing its age, I would expect it to replaced before the end of the decade.
The modular OHC Ford engine however has been around only a fraction of that time, its a new design, makes use of more modern technology in its design and is intented to provide Ford with a variety of V8 engines for well into the next decade.
If it didn't make more power per litre than the older GM motor then Ford would have failed miserably.
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