rank these entry level luxury sedans

i'm helping a friend buy a new car and would like your help. assume the following: all 2004 models and exclusion of top of the line trim so no M's, S's, AMG's, R's, V's or anything of that nature; tunability is no issue as this will be more of a family car/daily driver so just rank as stock form

Audi A4 3.0
BMW 330i
Mercedes C240
Infiniti G35
Lexus IS300
Acura TSX
Cadillac CTS
Volvo S60 2.5t
Jaguar x-type

simple as that. this isn't a poll. just rank them from 1 through 9. obviously 1 being the best for all you scholars.:p don't have to get too specific just in general. if you care to add in why you ranked them as such, go right ahead.

9. Volvo S60 2.5t- It's a bloody comfy car, with a nice engine, but the handling is off the pace compared with sportier offerings from other makers

8. Jaguar X Type- Once again it's comfortable and looks rather nice, but is really an overpriced Ford Mondeo, sadly. It also lacks the character of other Jaguars.

7. Mercedes Benz C240- Old, lousy reliability record; however it drives reasonably well, is comfortable and looks good.

6. Lexus IS300- Since tunability is out of the equation, then this car really loses a lot of appeal, but it's going to be reliable, it'll handle well, but it's am ageing 3 series clone at the end of the day.

5. Acura TSX- Looks sharp, has a sharp FWD chassis and IIRC a K20A (Might be a K24, though), cool interior as well. Awesome, just not as good as the 4 cars above it.

4. Cadillac CTS- Ugly it may be, but if you can live with the looks then it's a good decision, with the new Alloytec 3.6 V6 and impressively sharp handling.

3. Audi A4 3.0- AWD means that it'll be awesome in the snow and the rain, as well as this it has a beautifully assembled interior and a tried and true drivetrain. Quick as well.

2. Infiniti G35- Only one I've yet to drive, but I'm constantly hearing good things about it. A bit ugly, though.

1. BMW 330i. The benchmark, the exact car all the rest have been trying to imitate. Even though a new one is coming out soon, this is still the one to have. Sharp handling, excellent engine, well built. Buy it!

1. BMW 330i
2. Infiniti G35
3. Lexus IS 300
4. Audi A4 3.0 quattro
5. Acura TSX
6. Cadillac CTS
7. Mercedes-Benz C240
8. Volvo S60 2.5T
9. Jaguar X-Type

1. Cadillac CTS - good balance, great price, I prefer the 3.2L with the manual personally
2. BMW 330i - best car in this comparo, but price makes it #2
3. Infiniti G35 - A bit less refined than the rest
4. Volvo S60 - I've always been a volvo fan, they've got something all other cars don't.
5. IS300 - was good when it came out, has been passed by most others now though
6. X-Type - a solid car, a bit too small though for its weight and price
7. A4 - Another car that feels its age, a bit underpowered, best in bad weather though if thats a factor.
8. TSX - FWD & No torque kills an otherwise good handling well manered car.
9. C240 - Sluggish and not as sporty as any of its competitiors, looks boring.

9)Jaguar Xtype-although it's based off the Lincoln LS platform it still just screams "I'm a ford Taurus" i hate them.

8)Volvo-, not sure if the comparo meant for the AWD version or just fwd but for a 2.5T you'd expect more than 200 hp, not a bad car but something i'd see my mom driving...slowly

7)Mercedes c240- if this is what you have to buy so you can say you drive a mercedes, keep saving. with 168 hp and 3300lbs of body weight, even the civics will pick on you in this thing. looks awesome though.

6)Acura TSX- if you can't afford a TL, and an RSX is too kid racer-ish, this is what you buy, a girl i know has one, fit and finish is great but it's slow, and jimster it's powered by a 4 cylinder accord engine so i think it's the k24.

5)Audi A4- the 3.0 v6 was a good update, still kinda slow though.

4)IS300-Great handling, though underpowered and over priced

3)Cadillac CTS-sporty and classy, good use of power plus I'm a big GM fan.

2)Infiniti G35(would have been #1 if it were a coupe comparo)

1)BMW 330i-just a beautiful all around car

I'll only rank the ones with which I have personal experience. These aren't in order, so pay attention to the rank numbers. I was lazy :)

1-BMW 330i- No numbers can truly quantify the driving experience you get from a BMW. numerically compared, others might beat it, but the connection you have to the road and the car is incredible. In the past engineers have tried to isolate the road for a quiet comfy experience while maintaining a connected feeling. Somehow BMW managed the comfort of the smoothest lincoln limosine, with the connection and feedback of a Porsche. Maybe those are extreme analogies, but its just an experience to behold

6-Mercedes C240- Eww. Yawn. Waste of my time. I would rather ride a bike than drive the limp-noodle experience of all three Mercs I've driven, including the 240. Their drive by wire system controls your acceleration to the point of danger. Try jumping out in traffic by stabbing the pedal, and the car rewards you with a slow application of the throttle. The steering is weak with waay too much power assist. The seating position is tight and narrow. Yuck. Just driving my friend's 240 down the street to the Home Depot, I was done listening to the darn engine. I found myself going gently on the throttle just to make the engine shut up.

4-Infiniti G35- A Maxima with a higher price tag and more sound deadening. Way too much money for what it is, which is basically a big economy car with tons of options.

3-Cadillac CTS- A nice car with good power and handling. It does not get the nod for assembly quality, though. Better than the Infinity, but not Mercedes or BMW's build quality. Yummy leather, too.

2-Volvo S60 2.5t- Overall, just a nice car. Volvo tank build, good power if not a little buzzy, great seats and seating position, and Volvo pays impeccable attention to placement and feel of the buttons and options. Good visibility, and you know the leather on the seats and the radio buttons will last as long as the car. The carpet was one of my favorite points of the Volvo. Not overly plush, but you could tell it was expensive and will last. I'm placing it second on the word of a friend who's a Volvo mechanic, but as recently as 2001 they had some serious electronic reliability issues. The drive-by-wire system had major failures as well as brake failure and seat belt issues. I've been told that they have been completely addressed, but some more research might prove valuable.

5-Jaguar x-type. Here is the ultimate example of the opposite experience of the BMW. Although its numbers may indicate a nice ride, its just not there. More noise and less feel than the BMW. The front suspension design is terrible allowing for terrible camber curves which they crutch by limiting suspension travel. Its a problem that can be cured with a simple relocation of some parts, but they chose the cheap way to fix it. The ride quality makes you expect BMW-like handling, but you get 1965 Continental handling. The noise of the engine makes you think you're getting lots of power, but the final drive ratio proves otherwise. I was excited for this car for my wife since she liked the styling, but she actually said she would rather keep her TERCEL until we could find a BMW.

1. CTS - 3.6 is awesome, handles very well, very much a luxury car, and IMO it is the best looking
2. 330i - the car is close to perfect, but it's expensive.
3. G35 - Great car, Infiniti reliability, lots of power.
4. S60 - Nice car, very safe, but middle of the pack among the competition.
5. IS300 - Lexus reliability, good looking, but outdated.
6. A4 - Nice car, good power, good handling, but has questioable build quality and reliability.
7. C240 - Luxurious, but that's about it, underpowered, and outclassed by the others. They tend to be unreliable and have a poor build quality, by MB standards.
8. TSX - Good handling, decent looking, but lacks the luxury of the others and in typical Honda fashion has no low end power.
9. X-Type - Luxurious, decent looking, but it's unreliable, it's underpowered, poor handling, and it's basically an overpriced unreliable Taurus.

Hey, you forgot the Saab 9-3SS!

4-Infiniti G35- A Maxima with a higher price tag and more sound deadening. Way too much money for what it is, which is basically a big economy car with tons of options.

You're thinking of the Infiniti I35. The G35 is a RWD compact, rather than a FWD midsize; you may know it better as the Nissan Skyline. :)

I would take the BMW 330i.

1) BMW 330i: By far the most fun you could have in a sub $40,000 sedan. I like how Curtis73 put it, "Somehow BMW managed the comfort of the smoothest lincoln limosine, with the connection and feedback of a Porsche." The three series has a better feel to it then any car in this field. The styling is great, good interior, awesome transmission, best drive. Only downfall is the cost, which can run close to $40,000, you really do pay for what you get. The E90 3-series is planned for the 2006 m.y. and may be a better option with a 255hp engine, and don't worry, its technically a "Bangle Mobile" but it isn't nearly as controversial as the new 5er and 7. C&D top ten list for 14 years, 5-stars from "CAR" magazine, 4.5 stars from "EVO."

2) Infiniti G35: This is the best wannabe 3-series out there. Good engine, good handling, and feedback second only to the 3er. A bit stronger then the 3-series, and a bit cheaper. C&D said that the G35 sedan is the only car in this class better then the BMW 325i (really only won because of the power advantage). Pricing is about average for this class. Interior is sub par. Looks a little strange IMO.

3) Audi A4 3.0: I firmly believe Quattro to be the best AWD system out there. Not a very fast car, but if you have to deal with snow, this might be your best option. Good interior, great styling (second only to the 3-series IMO). Its a bit dated, but a newer version either just came out or is about to, not sure. Another wannabe 3-series. Can run a little expensive.

4) Acura TL and TSX: I was supprised to see that the TL wasn't on this list as it is less expensive then the 330i, so I thought I would throw it in. The TL is a pretty good car, but in alot of ways it really just a nicer Accord. One of the strongest engines in the class, but it handles like, well, a Honda Accord. Good interior room and good styling.
The TSX is by far the least expensive in this group, and with good reason. Its FWD and only has 200hp. Its basically a 4-door RSX-S with TL-like styling. Amazingly, I thought it was a better drive then the TL. Good buy for the price, but isn't really in this class.

(I wouldn't even consider any of these remaining cars)

5 (tied) Caddilac CTS: Its a GM, and therefore I don't trust it. I think the styling is ok, but I have yet to drive it.

5 (tied) Lexus IS300: Wasn't even as good as the A4 and the 3er when it first came out, but now its old and badly in need of being remade.

5 (tied) Benz C240: Its an ok car, but has no power. With Benz making rediculous 600hp/700lb-ft engines for the top of their lineup, they seem to have completely forgotten the bottom. Good interior, but way overpriced. Terrible reliability issues. The 325i is a better car, not to mention the 330i.

8) Volvo S60 2.5t: I've heard bad things about Volvo reliability ever since the Ford buyout. I owned a 1984 Volvo DL and drove it to around 200,000 miles, with minimal money put into it. Reliability should be what Volvo is going after, since they don't have a chance of competing with the likes of BMW, Audi, and Infiniti. The 2.5t isn't very quick. Looks ok on its own, but pales in comparison to the 3 series and the A4. If you want a marginally "cool" car, you don't want a Volvo.

9) Jaguar X-Type: I know a couple of Jaguar owners that call this the "fake Jag." I don't think I've ever read a good article about this car, even from the British, who believe Jaguar is god's gift to cars. Its got a Jaguar badge, but its really a Ford Mondeo. Its slow, and handle like crap. Only advantage I can see is the styling, which I think is ok, but my Jag fan friends think is aweful.

Conclusion: If you live in the north, get a A4 Quattro for the AWD. If you can afford it, get the 330i. If you can't afford a 330i, check out the G35 or the 325i.

1. Infiniti G35- Reasonably priced. Best in class handling and power (my opinion) not a ton out there. Look nice, good cars, available AWD which i have, (very nice)

2. Cadillac CTS- Good power and handling. Good priced. Handels corners like a dream. Not a ton out there. Great V6!

3. Audi A4 3.0- Test drove one a few years ago with my dad. Very redefined. Drives like a Porsche, very nice engine! God, I'd like to have one. Not many lease deals, a little overpriced, you pay for the name.

4. Acura TSX- heard good things about them. Sporty. Overpriced. Not much info on them.

5 BMW 330i- Heard good things. Rode in one. Overpriced. Everyone has one. ok engine (only push you to about 130) Statis Symbol, IE: oh i drive a BMW.

6. Volvo S60- I have a friend who has one. Safe. inexpensive. ok car.

7. Lexus Is300- havent heard much about them. Small, over priced.

8. Mercedes C240- Small engine. luxurius. A mercedes. Piece of crap unless you get AMG.

9. Jaguar X-type -Cheap, ugly Pice of shit I'd never buy one.

The reason the BMW is such a everybodys car is, look at the top. It seems like everyone has one as their top choice.

i rode in one, and they only go 130. A g35 will go over 150

The BMW is limited...

The TSX is overpriced? $27,000 and almost no options. Im pretty sure that makes it the cheapest on the list. $3,000 less then the G35 and $5,000 less the the G35x that you called reasonably priced. Sorry, I just had to point that out. It seems your almost as biased towards the G35 as I am towards the BMW 3-Series :)

Who gives a shit about top speed? How often do you go that fast anyways? The BMW's engine may not be as powerful as the G35's, but it's certainly more smooth and refined. The BMW also has the best manual transmission -ever-, incredible styling, and an incredible suspension. Unfortunately, yes, you do pay a lot for all of these advantages, and what pisses me off is that a lot of that extra cost is going towards the badge on the hood. That said, the 330i is still the best car in its class, and if I had the money, I'd buy one. Also, note that I am pretty biased towards Japanese cars, yet I still picked the German.

the CTS is offered with the exact same transmission as the BMW.

But is the shifter the same? I've never driven a CTS so I wouldn't know.

the CTS is offered with the exact same transmission as the BMW.
IIRC it is the Automatic boxes that are the same in the 3 series and CTS, not the manuals.

1) Saab 9-3 Aero.

2) Volvo S60 2,5t

3) Audi A4 3.0

4) Cacillac CTS

5) Mercedes C240

6) Jaguar X-type

7) Acura TSX

8) Infiniti G35

9) BMW 330i (Simply just too old, new model coming soon)

10)Lexus IS300

wow you choose a poor handling FWD 9-3 over the RWD cars? wierd.

wow you choose a poor handling FWD 9-3 over the RWD cars? wierd.

everyone has their own opinions. nothing weird about that. saab never entered my mind but those 9-3's look pretty nice.

1. BMW 330i
2. Audi A4 3.0
3. Infiniti G35
4. Cadillac CTS
4. Acura TSX
4. Lexus IS300
7. Volvo S60 2.5t
8. Mercedes C240
9. Jaguar x-type

i'll admit that the saab is one of the best looking cars on that list. i guess saabs charm truely does work on certain people.

wow you choose a poor handling FWD 9-3 over the RWD cars? wierd.


Where do you get that the 9-3 has poor handling? Have you ever even tried one?

Although the handling might not be 100% as good as the 3-series, the 9-3 has alot of other positive sides. For one, it's the safest car you can buy (The first and only car to have been "double picked" by IIHS). A RWD car isn't as good to drive in winters as FWD/4WD, and where I live this is crucial. The interior is great, with excellent seats if you go for the sports-seats and I could go on forever. It doesn't have unlimited space but neither does many of the other cars.

What I enjoyed most about the 9-3 Vector was its handling and braking. Even when compared with some rear-drive competitors, the 9-3 Vector, equipped with sticky P215/50R17 `W'-rated performance tires, handles with great stability and control, minimal lean, and excellent stability under braking

( http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/03saab9-3.htm )

In terms of handling, the 9-3 is not a one-to-one substitute for the rear-drive 3 Series or the all-wheel-drive A4 quattro, but among front-wheel-drive cars, it doesn't get much better than this Saab

( http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/saab/93/100454383/roadtestarticle.html?articleId=79822&tid=edmunds.e.roadtests.content...Saab* )

To me, it's looks are GREAT!

http://www.saab.no/main/image/model_intro/image_gallery/93_S_ext_1.jpg

i've driven 9-3's but i've never driven them hard. now since your quoting from mags, the mags also states that it handles extremely well upon first impressions. the car is fine as long as you kept it under 7/10ths. however when you go beyond that heres what they said

"The front tires are doing too much of the work, and the business of trading braking grip for turning or power while trying to keep the other cars in sight became quite taxing. The process led to a rather ragged driving style. And that's odd, given the previous 9-3's tendency to improve, relatively, when the going got twisty. We were bothered by the stability system, too, which would start insinuating itself even on a trailing throttle into bends"

"Although the Saab was unlikely to do anything untoward while being pushed, the steering felt overly light, and the brake pedal was a touch too squashy underfoot. Like the X-type Jag's, the Saab's repertoire is biased toward the luxury end of the dynamic spectrum. Bottom line? Rethink the choice of an automatic gearbox."

the highs "Solid structure, spacious interior, turbo power."

the lows "Slippery seats, imprecise on-the-limit handling.

the article http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=7785&page_number=3

on the same comparison, the G35 layed a whoop ass on it, and won first place, when the saab ranked 6th.

since i'm picking on it already i might as well finish.

"Finesse is necessary to achieve any semblance of performance driving. The steering seems to lack self-centering and has unusual gain that finds the driver creeping unaware into the next lane. Push the 9-3 past its narrow window of acceptable behavior and electronic nannies from the car's standard ESP dynamic stability control and/or Cornering Brake Control systems aggressively cut in and out"

"The 9-3 Aero makes its driver work to achieve good performance; stepping outside the boundaries results in penalties."

http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0405_sedans/index1.html

again, the saab ranked dead last, with the G35 again being on top ranking first place.

however those were all ordinary 9-3's and i had no idea that a 9-3 vector even exist. but after researching it, it certain does seem like GM have addressed the problems that most people are having. however if i was to pick a FWD it would be from a honda.

Tat, very well put. and no i'm not tryin to pick sides here but just as edonis decided to exclude negatives about the saab, you have also excluded some negs on the G35. taken from that same C&D article

"....
Lows: Some ride jitters, a few cheap touches.
..."

" The interior is spacious and comfortable, and we like the design, although some of the controls can be confusing. The tilting-disc radio-volume and temperature selectors, for example, are easily mixed up."

just to be fair. nothing earth shatteringly terrible about the G35, but it's not a flawless vehicle. there's no such thing. although i should say my friend test drove one and really liked it. i'll say he's torn between the G35 and the A4 (thanks to my own biased pressuring. haha) main reason he's not balls out about the bmw or audi, is the ownership/maintenance costs involved. plus at least audis dont' have the best track record for reliability.

well of course infiniti have addressed the interior issue with a very nice mid life make over. however i will give the saab credit for changing the low points of hte 9-3 by giving it hte Vector trim. there is no denying that the 9-3 is the better looking car, however i'm just as biased as any other guy here.

main reason he's not balls out about the bmw or audi, is the ownership/maintenance costs involved.

Im not sure how the 3er compares to the G35 for reliability, but I've always thought of the BMW as a pretty reliable car. + BMW will replace almost anything that might need to it over the first 50,000 miles/4 years. The BMW also keeps its value better then any of the cars on the list.

http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/3/investment.htm

Interesting, I would have thought the Lexus or the Acura would hold the best resale value, but I guess not.

I trust BMW's reliability enough that I would buy one, but not nearly as much as I trust the Japanese.

The BMW also keeps its value better then any of the cars on the list.

http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/3/investment.htm

This varies from country to country, of course.

After five years, the price has gone down the following amount here in Norway:

Saab 9-5 2,0t - 48%
Volvo V70 2,4 - 50%
Mercedes E200 - 51%
Audi A6 1,8t Avant - 53%

BMW 316i Touring Business - 48%
Audi A4 2,0 Avant - 49%

Here, Audis don't keep on their value very well, mainly because there are way to many of them!

BMW 330i
Audi A4 3.0
Infiniti G35
Volvo S60 2.5t
Cadillac CTS
Jaguar x-type
Mercedes C240
Lexus IS300
Acura TSX

when a company makes a car thats front engined rear wheel drive, with its front wheels out to the corners, they must be copying bmw, i dont think so, not at all, bmw has just been using this formula longer on most of their cars. its no secret to build a car like this, a lot of companies have done this in the past, and it doesnt take complicated engineering knowledge to build a car this way.

if you look at how the chassis is engineered, the is300 might have a better setup than the 330i, but the overall performance of the 330i beats it, but then it also costs more. another thing is that some people think the is300's steering is sharper than the 330i. i put the audi above the tsx, mainly because of power.

i ll only rank the cars i would get

330i
is300
audi a4
tsx, why not the tl? if tl, then id rank it as third.