99 winstar engine ping

My van is running good, although some days it seems to have more get up an go than others but of course I feel the same some days too:). Anyway, we had the infamous TSB done a couple of months ago, also had a full tune-up and fuel injector cleaning. The engine ping seemed to be gone briefly but now it is back. I hear it on a hard accleration...going up hill or small incline and sometimes acclerating after a stop. It is most irritating! I even put in medium grade gas. I have tried supreme and the ping is considerably less with the higher grade. No CEL.. all else seems fine, any ideas on what can be done or why I get this annoying ping?

Did you include the reprogramming of the PCM that some posters have mentioned as part of the TSB? Apparently it's supposed to retard the ignition timing a bit.

Did you include the reprogramming of the PCM that some posters have mentioned as part of the TSB? Apparently it's supposed to retard the ignition timing a bit.
The PCM was reprogrammed BEFORE the TSB was done. It is a long story but it was done as part of the troubleshooting for the 171/174 code. Does it need it again?

Probably not, but your dealer should know if he put the latest program change in place.

My van is running good, although some days it seems to have more get up an go than others but of course I feel the same some days too:). Anyway, we had the infamous TSB done a couple of months ago, also had a full tune-up and fuel injector cleaning. The engine ping seemed to be gone briefly but now it is back. I hear it on a hard accleration...going up hill or small incline and sometimes acclerating after a stop. It is most irritating! I even put in medium grade gas. I have tried supreme and the ping is considerably less with the higher grade. No CEL.. all else seems fine, any ideas on what can be done or why I get this annoying ping?

Okay somethings I have been noticing since posting the above original message. My van has NO get up and go now! If I hit the accelerator to get it going I get the pinging really bad. Once the van has finally caught up with itself it runs smooth and no pinging until I have to stop at a light. Also noticing the van starting really rough when hot ie running errands, stop at a store, run in come back to the van turn the key to start and boy it is rough! Until I put it into gear than it is fine. The van seems to have more get up and go in the mornings or when cold but once it is warmed up it is miserable. I am so frustrated. I will need to take it in to the mechanic but want to have some idea at what I may be dealing with.

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that fuel pressure is the one thing that can cause me the most grief ....before it gets so bad it causes a CEL to light up.

If your van is '99 or later, I'd just renew the "fuel pump relay" as a starter. Next step would be fuel rail pressure test...hoping its not low pressure caused by a bad pump.

Of course it could be a vacuum leak (ie., bad repair work) ...but I would expect a CEL if it were a vacuum leak.

EDIT: Oops, I see now it is a '99.

I'm no expert, but it seems to me that fuel pressure is the one thing that can cause me the most grief ....before it gets so bad it causes a CEL to light up.

If your van is '99 or later, I'd just renew the "fuel pump relay" as a starter. Next step would be fuel rail pressure test...hoping its not low pressure caused by a bad pump.

Of course it could be a vacuum leak (ie., bad repair work) ...but I would expect a CEL if it were a vacuum leak.

EDIT: Oops, I see now it is a '99.

I am not mechanically inclined so I don't know what you mean when you say to 'renew the fuel pump relay'. Is this something I can do and how? Sorry if I sound stupid. If it is something I can do and given good instruction I will give it a try.
I am not getting a CEL at this point. The van was running so nicely after all the work had been done. It wasn't running badly before just had the stupid CEL on with the infamous 171/174 codes. But NOW it runs horribly especially during acceleration from a stop and the ping is worse than before I am afraid of causing some serious damage to the engine. I may have to step back up to supreme gas until I am able to get this to the mechanic. I don't relish going back to the mechanic at all. We have spent loads of money trying to get this van fixed. I am not excited at the prospect of spending more. I can't until after the Holidays at least.
Thanks for you help and insight it is really appreciated!

The '99 has two fuse-relay boxes. One is near the drivers left foot. The other is underhood near the battery.

There is a component lay-out of each in the glove box manual.

Open up the box under-hood. The box cover hinges on front and latches on the rear edge. The cover can be stubborn to remove...I find it easier to press down on its center while lifting on the latch end.

Inside you will see about a dozen black box relays. Two different sizes/part-numbers. These things cost about $10 each. They plug in to the bases ... just like the fuses.... but can be difficult to remove for the first time. Grab the top of the relay with some pliers and tug away. Some WD40 will help the removal ...but follow up with grease on the base before replacing relay ... I like silicone connector grease.

The "fuel pump relay" is #207.

Please don't swap used relays around.. that will cause you confusion. Buy new relays for replacement. Multilate the old relays as you remove them to keep from reusing by mistake.

I very seriously doubt fuel pressure is your problem. If the relay were bad, the pump most likely would not run = no fuel = van no run. Sounds like your timing is WAY advanced. This would also explain your hard start when hot condition. May have carbon build up in the cylinder, may need 'puter reprogrammed. One thing I would recommend is DON'T BE SO CHEAP! Buy good gas. I drive a Suburban which cost $75 evert time I get gas, but the damn thing just plain doesn't run right on cheap gas. Ask your mechanic to diagnose timing issue.

I very seriously doubt fuel pressure is your problem. If the relay were bad, the pump most likely would not run = no fuel = van no run. Sounds like your timing is WAY advanced. This would also explain your hard start when hot condition. May have carbon build up in the cylinder, may need 'puter reprogrammed. One thing I would recommend is DON'T BE SO CHEAP! Buy good gas. I drive a Suburban which cost $75 evert time I get gas, but the damn thing just plain doesn't run right on cheap gas. Ask your mechanic to diagnose timing issue.
The PCM was reprogrammed before the isolator bolts TSB was done. I am not 'cheap' I buy name brand gas Union 76 or Cheveron. I put in 'plus'. Would a gas additive work to clean out a cylinder?

From reading your posts, it sounds like there is a problem with the windstar that is not going to be solved by brands of gasoline. It is true that some cars run better on certain brands than others.....and what is best for one car is not going to be the best for another car. But, again, I seriously doublt that it would cause the extent of problems that you have.

I have a '96, which has a different upper intake manifold....and is not included in the TSB issues you just had taken care of. But....I have had several issues caused by vacuum leaks. They can be difficult to track down....and can cause a variety of problems.....without lighting the CEL.
You can try GENTLY, and CAREFULLY wiggling things around with the engine at idle to see if you can hear the hiss of a vacuum leak....or a change in the engine idle.

Another thing to try is cleaning the MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor. Use non-residue electronic cleaner for this.

A good do-it-yourself fuel system and upper engine cleaner..... I use Redline Complete Fuel System Cleaner. Advance Auto Parts carries it in my area.

Another thing to try if there is a question about fuel pressure or flow....would be the fuel filter.
The fuel filter is located under the car.....in front of the rear, driver's side tire....on the inside of the frame member. If you do the work yourself, follow the instructions you should be able to find at www.autozone.com The main thing to keep in mind is that the fuel system is under pressure.....and stays under pressure for some time after the car is shut off.

If there is a question about timing, your mechanic can check the timing to see if it is within specifications. There are a number of inputs to the computer that go into the determination of the timing.

I can rule out the MAF it was cleaned pre-tsb in hopes that was why I was getting the 171/174 codes. Fuel filter was replaced at the time of tune up. I will try to listen for a vac. leak plus try the cleaner you mentioned. Thanks for the tips!

BTW: With the gas additive how long will it be before I notice it working? That is assuming it will work. Thanks

If you have not run a fuel system cleaner in a while, it may take 2 full treatments to clean things up. I do not know that it will clean out severely carboned combustion chambers, but should clean the fuel system, and intake valves, etc.
Your injectors should be fine as they were just cleaned....so I am not so sure the cleaner will solve your problem....but is good to use a few times a year.
As many things are vacuum actuated, a leak could cause a thing or so to not be activated when it should be. Is so easy to bump something loose when working in there. My '96 has a LOT of vacuum connections on the back of the upper intake manifold. Don't overlook the PCV valve....

If you do not find the problem, It might be worth having the dealer run a diagnostic on it.