Full Size Pickups

Which Full Size Pickup do you like and why (only the 150/1500 models, no 250/2500 models):

Dodge Ram
http://www.dodge.com/ram_1500/index.html

Ford F-150
http://www.fordvehicles.com/trucks/f150/

Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra
http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado/1500/
http://www.gmc.com/sierra/index.jsp

Toyoto Tundra
http://www.toyota.com/tundra/

Nissan Titan
http://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/ModelHomePage/0,,120021,00.html

Discuss what you think has the best motors, best durability, best looks, best bargain, etc..

I kinda hate pick up trucks, but Nissan all the way on this one. Interior finish!

silverado, but i'm bias because i own one

The Titan is the best all-around pickup and the best value for sure, but I voted for the Ram since it's the sportiest one and the Hemi V8 is an incredible motor.

The Titan is the best all-around pickup and the best value for sure, but I voted for the Ram since it's the sportiest one and the Hemi V8 is an incredible motor.


yeah too bad the titan is faster with a smaller engine making ( supposidly ) less power and can tow more stuff. :rolleyes:

sorry man hemi is just overrated. there is nothing that a hemi can do that a good 4 valve per cylinder engine with a good quench area can't do. in fact the 4 valve will flow more then that outdated pushrod 2 valve per head setup.

displacement per displacement. a dohc 4 valve owns hemi.

I think the Ford is the one with more variety of engines, body frames, equipment, etcc, and is the best built overall, not to mention is the best lookin ever.

I was actually talking about handling and road-holding more than raw power. I realize that Nissan's engine is superior to the Hemi in power production, but the Hemi still a very competitive motor. I think that a 2-valve OHV setup is actually better for a motor in a full-size pickup that needs the power down low.

um.....i pick my truck

But the Titan V8 is the one with more torque, the hemi wins in hp....which is very unexpected

I would take the Titan because it looks better than the competition inside and out, and its very powerful

Dodge Ram without a second thought. I'm obviously Dodge bias since I own a Dakota and also a Mopar fan. But it just seems like a general public tends to lust after the Ram more than the competition. It's also got the style, performance, and reliability that I want.

The Titan would be a good competitor except it's so fucking ugly. Plus, no diesel option. :rolleyes:

Nissan guys can argue the V8 comparo but nothing beats a Dodge Ram 3500 with the Cummins diesel. End of story.

If you are talking about newer (>2003) trucks the Tundra is allright, but older one have brake problems (like mine) warped rotors and drums 1999.5-2002. I give the nod to the Titan.

F-150 but thats a little bias. With the payload package it has the highest payload and towing. And if your worried about speed you can always get a dealer installed Roush supercharger that is covered under warranty. And will get you in low 6 seconds 0-60 Mph while you still have 4wd and a crewcab.

^

I gotta say that sounds pretty tight that Ford offers a SC under warranty, never heard of it before, but sounds pretty cool.

I also hold a bit of Bias, being a Dak owner, I choose the Ram, has lot's of options, and Domestic pickups still have the upperhand on the imports.

Of the two imports, I'd take the Tundra, although the ugliest of all of them (looks more like a cars frontend), they are very reliable pickups (read Consumer Reports). My uncle has one, and it's got decent power.

The commercials of Ford claim they are the best selling pickup, but I see so many new Rams on the road, does anyone have actual figures of who has sold the most?

^

I gotta say that sounds pretty tight that Ford offers a SC under warranty, never heard of it before, but sounds pretty cool.



TRD offers the same for the Tundra, with full warrenty if they install it.

The dodge ram is the worst of the big 3 and always have been, they have improved their trucks in the latest redesign but they are still not up to standard. The hemi engine is very overated not only is it not clean as far as emissions goes it is very unfuel efficent and consitering this is a new design it is some what distressing. Dodge have a history of having tranny failures too so hopefully this is not the case with this one as well. The new f150 although a huge improvement over the former very substandard f150 is an unexeptional vehical, The chevy although a very nice truck in its time is getting old in the tooth now. The tundra is a very very nice truck with lexus like quality how ever it is a little small and dated. The nissan truck I would say has to be the best at the moment it has a beautiful smooth and powerful engines with well build chasis and suspention and some of the best pay load and towing numbers in class.

The dodge ram is the worst of the big 3 and always have been, they have improved their trucks in the latest redesign but they are still not up to standard. The hemi engine is very overated not only is it not clean as far as emissions goes it is very unfuel efficent and consitering this is a new design it is some what distressing. Dodge have a history of having tranny failures too so hopefully this is not the case with this one as well. The new f150 although a huge improvement over the former very substandard f150 is an unexeptional vehical, The chevy although a very nice truck in its time is getting old in the tooth now. The tundra is a very very nice truck with lexus like quality how ever it is a little small and dated. The nissan truck I would say has to be the best at the moment it has a beautiful smooth and powerful engines with well build chasis and suspention and some of the best pay load and towing numbers in class.


IS THAT RIGHT? :eek:

If you're going for a reliable truck, do the Japanese... I lean toward the Toyota for ultimate reliability, but they aren't as fun to look at (in my opinion) as the Titan.

If you're looking for a supremely rugged chassis and want the brick s#!thouse approach, do the Ford or Chevy. Up until the latest silverado, I would have just said Ford, but the new silverados are rock solid, too. Its often times something you don't consider much, but the ruggedness of the chassis is a huge consideration for me. Ever watch a COMPACT import pickup on the highway? The beds flop around and you know that metal fatigues like that. They are truck bodies on spindly frames that carry Camry brakes and little tiny axles. I had an F250 that didn't need brakes for 65,000 miles, 30,000 of which were towing a 10,000 lb trailer across the country five times. It also never needed tie rod ends or shocks... its just all heavy duty stuff that you don't always think of. You just assume that if 10 different vehicles are stamped "6800 GVW" then they are all equally competent at the job. That's just not the case. The Titan and Tundra are far superior to the B2200's of years past, but they don't have the years of experience at heavy trucks like the American's do.

Avoid the Dodge unless you're going heavy duty with a Cummins. I know I'll ruffle some feathers, but fit and finish, quality of materials, and reliability are not their current strong suit.

GM is still having some growing pains on the reliability front, but for the most part its little annoying stuff, not stuff that will strand you on the side of the road... usually.

If you're like 94% of the truck owners, you don't buy a truck because you need one, you buy it to haul a couch once a year and maybe take some trash to the dump. If that's the case, do the Japanese. It will be more than capable of handling nearly anything you throw at it. They are very new to the heavy duty truck scene and still have a few things they haven't ironed out yet, but very good trucks.

If you're like the 6% who actually use a truck as a truck and frequently take it to GVW, buy an F150 or a Silverado and deal with their American flaws. While you're at it, do yourself a favor and test drive a 250/2500. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at their ride and manners. You'll also be rewarded with greatly increased maintenance intervals on wear items, and 100k miles from now when your F250 doesn't rattle, creak, and whine like your neighbor's F150, you'll be glad you did. Just a thought.

Above all, be realistic with your expectations of a truck. I really need one in my life, but I don't have one cause I don't like them. The one I did have wasn't enough for me because I overestimated its abilities. Many times its the other way around. People buy their Lightning truck, never put so much as a mattress in the bed, then complain about the 13 MPGs.

Good luck with your decision.

IS THAT RIGHT? :eek:

I agree with it, although not quite as strongly. Dodge is still using their fourth revision of the A518 transmission which is a 727 Torqueflite with an electric overdrive smacked on the front. They are somewhere between inadequate and terrible. They're getting better, but for 20 years they've been band-aiding an ailing design when a clean slate would have saved them billions of dollars.

Take a look at the super cheap plastic interior with wide gaps. The dashboard in my friend's 2500 ram squeaks more than a styrofoam cooler. The carpet is so cheap that you can see the rows of really short piling and see the backing between them. After 12,000 miles, her carpet started wearing through at her heel.

The engines are fine, but Chrysler never spent much time on updating head port designs from the 60s and they are incredibly inefficient. The new Hemi is catching up, but still years behind Chevy's LS1-based truck motors. A good example was outlined in a Car Craft a couple years ago. They took a Dakota with a 5.8L, added headers, intake, chip, exhaust, and actually lost torque and only gained 15 hp. The heads were just so restrictive to the point of inefficiency that it also contributed to worse observed gas mileage on this test truck.

This was a topic of conversation at a recent meeting we had at SEMA; Dodge needs to realize that they are selling trucks based on 30 years of "redneck loyalty" (no offense... that doesn't mean that rednecks buy Dodges, the redneck word refers to the type of loyalty here) and they won't have that around anymore, especially now with Toyota and Nissan dabbling in the light truck market. They were shopping for a new diesel for three years to just make a change, but then Cummins stepped up and changed their diesel enough to renew the contract for Dodge.

GM went through a similar time between about '80 and '94. Some of the junk they put on the road was frightening, but it really didn't hurt sales that much. Had things continued that way, they would have lost the whole kit and caboodle. Ford has just been consistently satisfactory with a brief dip into mediocre between 85 and 91.

I think the next 10 years is going to be very exciting. The Automotive world is merging, and at the same time, the vehicles are diversifying.

That's my Dodge rant. Give them a few years to let more MBZ technology to trickle down to the trucks and things will even out.

Chevy and GMC guy. Like those Sierras and Sivlerados.

Curtis has had some excellent posts in here that I would have to agree highly on.

For me I'd pick either the Sierra Denali or Nissan and I'm pretty much a Chevy guy. Those are basically my needs right there with those two trucks. The Nissan wont just haul, it'll haul ass and it's looks are different but I like them not to mention I'd rather have that fucker off road than the Power Wagon. The Sierra Denali should be able to tow more than what it's rated at no problem and it seems like a pretty impressive truck. Otherwise a 3/4 ton Chevy with a Vortech 6000 or 8100 would do me just fine too seeming as how we have one. The Ram's look sweet and they got that in your face attitude but the Hemi doesn't do it for me anymore, although a 3/4 or 1 ton with the Cummins would kick some serious ass I'm wondering if the new Duramax's might be better. I mean for hauling if your gonna be hauling an assload of weight can you really beat the Duramax with an Allison?? I'm not even gonna touch Ford, although their new Superduty's do impress me, I'm just not for em.

I love my pickup.

Dodge ram- Love the Hemi and the styling, rest is pretty meh.

F-150- New one is great, but there is a better choice.

Gmc Sierra- Denali Pickup, Beast the hell out of every other truck, Hands down.

Tundra- Can we even call this a truck?

Titan- Ugly as hell.

Here's props on the thread - very nicely done!

The GM(C) camp looks like nothing new, might as well buy a used 1997 model... and the interior still sucks,

The Hemi Ram is totally badass (does the sporty version count for this comparo??), but I've never been big on the style. Besides, I'd be too tempted to lower and convert a Ram into a street racing truck - and if I bought a truck it would be to do some serious work and not goof around (last thing I need is another expensive toy!),

I've heard nothing but great things about the new Tundra - the Japanese companies are finally waking up and realising NOBODY over here wants a real pickup truck without a V8!!! The Tundra looks nice and has got power, but a 32-valve DOHC engine in a truck? No thanks, do you have any idea how much gas that thing would be capable of going through (especially when speeding on the freeway, stuck in the high RPM's...) I know I'd screw myself with a DOHC V8 truck,

As for the Nissan I think the style is kinda weird, don't know too much about the truck to be honest (or Nissan). Again, a 32 valver in a pickup truck? Its strange because twin cam engines are usually higher RPM/higher HP engines, and in a truck you'd want the kind of low RPM torque that a good olde' pushrod V8 would give you. But 379 ft/lbs!!?? What's that all about!

I like the Ford's. They've changed the style enough to look like a brand new truck while still looking like a Ford pickup. To be honest I'm blown away by the interior, I think its amazing. Such a nice truck - and what other company has the balls to do a comparison right on its own website eh!? Ford's got my vote, its well priced too.


If you're going for a reliable truck, do the Japanese... I lean toward the Toyota for ultimate reliability...

Personally I don't agree with this statement. 10, maybe 5 years ago - OK. Quality is not that big of a disparity as it once was. Its no different than people who still think SONY is the cats ass in TV's (such a false and OLD sense of security). I don't see how a Toyota truck built in TX or IN would be constructed with better care or skill than a Ford built in MI. Any quality difference would have to lie in production technology or OEM parts. As far as parts go, the Japanese companies may or may not use better quality components, but one thing is certain - you're going to pay more to fix a Toyota than a Ford. So you'd better be ready to overhaul that pricey twin-cam V8 all in one shot, as opposed to servicing the cheaper OHV/OHC V8 a number of times (at least the last scenario lets you spread the payments out over time lol). Technology again may or may not be the difference, but I happen to think practical pickup truck utility is not rocket science. While the Japanese are now finally building "solid" trucks by virtue of years of trial and error, so too have the Big3 now refined their truck chassis to be more driveable and liveable (I don't think either camp is quite where they want to be, but they're now much closer to each other in every respect).

EDIT: I'm not trying to start a fight (and I don't even want to debate it! lol), thats just what I believe. Besides, you can find stories and statistics to support any claim... the ones closest to me is what I go by.

Well im biased and picked the F-150. But heck I would have picked it even before I owned a Ford. The interior is great, and it is just very handsome. The only problem is from what ive heard the transmision is geared too much towards fuel economy then performance, hence its bad performance times. But of course then you could get a Lightning.

I must say the dodge is the most overrated truck, especially the "hemi". Id much rather have a titan then dodge, both are ugly but atleast one is pretty quick.

Personally I don't agree with this statement. 10, maybe 5 years ago - OK. Quality is not that big of a disparity as it once was. Its no different than people who still think SONY is the cats ass in TV's (such a false and OLD sense of security). I don't see how a Toyota truck built in TX or IN would be constructed with better care or skill than a Ford built in MI. Any quality difference would have to lie in production technology or OEM parts. As far as parts go, the Japanese companies may or may not use better quality components, but one thing is certain - you're going to pay more to fix a Toyota than a Ford. So you'd better be ready to overhaul that pricey twin-cam V8 all in one shot, as opposed to servicing the cheaper OHV/OHC V8 a number of times (at least the last scenario lets you spread the payments out over time lol). Technology again may or may not be the difference, but I happen to think practical pickup truck utility is not rocket science. While the Japanese are now finally building "solid" trucks by virtue of years of trial and error, so too have the Big3 now refined their truck chassis to be more driveable and liveable (I don't think either camp is quite where they want to be, but they're now much closer to each other in every respect).



then you know nothing about operations management. just becasue a japanese factory in american doesn't mean it will have the same quality standards as american companys. the work ethics and quality control is much much much higher in a japanese run american factory then that of a american company.

example: in the honda plant in the states, there are tons of managers that over sees each assembly line, and tons of managers that over sees those manager. if they see as little as one slip up, they have the power to stop the entire assembly line to correct the problem. they will spot defects before they get a chance to make it past. they also have a progress chart and goal charts at the top of every line to show you if your on target or not.

just becasue american's work to assemble the japanese cars doesn't mean it will be built like an american car. the difference in quality and workman ship is as different as night and day.

example: i'm a hugh nissan fan but once nissan started building cars in america, they're quality went way south. probrably poor quality controls, and cheaper parts for interiors. now compare that to a american built honda, or a american built toyota the quality far surpasses to the american built nissans.

also american's hardly ever updates their models. they've been running on the same engines forever, their chassis technology hardly ever gets upgraded, and their ergonomics suck balls. its about time that they finally figured out to build a car right. so i highly doubt that american's really spend a hugh amount of money on R & D for trucks considering that fact that they were hardly different. in fact i find that american's are finally getting up to date rather then leading the industry.

i mean the chevy trucks were still using freaking TBI until the mid 90's!!!! the japanese haven't touch that since the late 80's, and their interiors are still rubbish. ever been in a cadillac escalade? pure trash. even the interior trim aren't properly trimed, so it still rough edges. the whole dash is one hollow piece of plastic. i can go on forever, or how about the first gen Lincoln navi? that thing was basically a F-150 with leather interior. again, pure trash, and i'm surprise people actually pay money for these cars. its amazing.

i drive plenty of cars a week. i drive around 100 cars a week. and everytime i hop into an american car, it never ceases to amaze me at how behind they are.

i honestly don't like import vs. domestic, i respect american sport cars, such as the vette, the viper, and esp the ford GT which is now my favorite car of the year. however don't ever compare standard ordinary american cars such as the impala to a honda accord. their not even in the same class in terms of technology, workmenship, quality, performance etc etc.

then you know nothing about operations management. just becasue a japanese factory in american doesn't mean it will have the same quality standards as american companys. the work ethics and quality control is much much much higher in a japanese run american factory then that of a american company.

example: in the honda plant in the states, there are tons of managers that over sees each assembly line, and tons of managers that over sees those manager. if they see as little as one slip up, they have the power to stop the entire assembly line to correct the problem. they will spot defects before they get a chance to make it past. they also have a progress chart and goal charts at the top of every line to show you if your on target or not.

just becasue american's work to assemble the japanese cars doesn't mean it will be built like an american car. the difference in quality and workman ship is as different as night and day.

example: i'm a hugh nissan fan but once nissan started building cars in america, they're quality went way south. probrably poor quality controls, and cheaper parts for interiors. now compare that to a american built honda, or a american built toyota the quality far surpasses to the american built nissans.

also american's hardly ever updates their models. they've been running on the same engines forever, their chassis technology hardly ever gets upgraded, and their ergonomics suck balls. its about time that they finally figured out to build a car right. so i highly doubt that american's really spend a hugh amount of money on R & D for trucks considering that fact that they were hardly different. in fact i find that american's are finally getting up to date rather then leading the industry.

i mean the chevy trucks were still using freaking TBI until the mid 90's!!!! the japanese haven't touch that since the late 80's, and their interiors are still rubbish. ever been in a cadillac escalade? pure trash. even the interior trim aren't properly trimed, so it still rough edges. the whole dash is one hollow piece of plastic. i can go on forever, or how about the first gen Lincoln navi? that thing was basically a F-150 with leather interior. again, pure trash, and i'm surprise people actually pay money for these cars. its amazing.

i drive plenty of cars a week. i drive around 100 cars a week. and everytime i hop into an american car, it never ceases to amaze me at how behind they are.

i honestly don't like import vs. domestic, i respect american sport cars, such as the vette, the viper, and esp the ford GT which is now my favorite car of the year. however don't ever compare standard ordinary american cars such as the impala to a honda accord. their not even in the same class in terms of technology, workmenship, quality, performance etc etc.

I see what you're tyring to say, But the americans are learning about japanese technique and are incorporating it into their own plants now.

The new AAI Plant where ford builds its mustang is a also a Mazda plant, Ford uses japanese style construction methods with it's new vehicles.

The americans don't update their engines very often as they really don't need to, The LS1 is essentially using 30 year old concepts, but it makes more power and gets better gas mileage than japanese V8's.

And as Dvs Stated earlier, Gm/DC pushrod motors make more torque down low than a peakier 4 valve setup.

The escalades interior isn't exactly horrible, but I agree it does need a new design.

The company making the most progress IMO is ford, The truck is better looking than it's foreign counterparts, Has a stronger, more useable engine than the toyota, Shoudl be fairly reliable, and has a far better interior than either the tundra or the titan, The titans interior is covered in cheap plastic, and the tundras looks like a giant plastic blob.

The americans are making headway on their sedan market as well, The new Ford 500, Chrysler 300C, and Cadillac STS sedans all have very nice interiors and styling, we should see a trickle down effect over the next couple of years until all american sedans have at least decent interiors, but quiet frankly, Japanese interiors aren't exactly mind blowing either, IMO the germans make by far the best interiors.

i agree with what your saying 100%, however what the american's still are failing to do is to inject some sportiness to their every day type vehicles. the ford 500 is a nice new little car, but its just too boring of a performer. the way the american's see their average fleet is basically a point A to B car. the japanese companys like honda incorperates handling to every vehicle, and nissan injects alot of hp for almost every vehicle in their line up. the only exception is toyota whos claim to fame is their reliable and their fuel economy ( which is pretty lame if you ask me ).

the new american cars that i've driven such as the malibu maxx and hte chrysler 300C, are leaps beyond their predecessors, however its still not quit japanese standard yet. compare the fit and finish of a accord to a 300c and you'll see what i mean. also the materials used on those cars are still on the cheap side.

quality control is much much much higher in a japanese run american factory then that of a american company...
don't ever compare standard ordinary american cars such as the impala to a honda accord...

Well at least you're saying "Japanese run american factory" - I just can't get over when people say "Japanese" built car or "American" built car. Frankly, a lot of our popular models are actually "Canadian" build cars - Acura EL & Civic's are hatched in Honda's Aliston ON plant.

And whose comparing an Impala to an accord? I've only been referring to trucks. But I like what you said about America finally getting up to date as opposed to leading the industry in cars - thats exactly what I think of the Japanese trucks.

Dodge Ram without a second thought. I'm obviously Dodge bias since I own a Dakota and also a Mopar fan. But it just seems like a general public tends to lust after the Ram more than the competition. It's also got the style, performance, and reliability that I want.

The Titan would be a good competitor except it's so fucking ugly. Plus, no diesel option. :rolleyes:

Nissan guys can argue the V8 comparo but nothing beats a Dodge Ram 3500 with the Cummins diesel. End of story.
Didn't he say only 150/1500/base-level models??? That throws the 3500 out of the question.


BTW, this is Nissan's first full-size truck, not too bad imo. I voted for Nissan Titan, even though my dad has an '03 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Duramax, LT, 4x4, 4 door. My choices would be 1.) Nissan Titan, 2.) Ford F150 (love the styling for this year), 3.) Chevy Silverado, 4.) Dodge Ram, 5.) Toyota Tundra. I've rode in a Silverado and Ram, the Ram hardly had any room for the rear passengers (4-door).

I picked the F-150. My second choice would of been the Titan ive heard alot thats its strong. It does have the 5.6 L thats good for Nissan. I would just pick those 2.

Well, as I have personally worked for a asian car company in one of their American factories, I feel especially qualified to comment on this topic. ;)

First of all Japanese stuff can be very, very well made and reliable. However, it is pure fantasy to assume that it is always this way or that American companies cannot match the quality level Japanese companies churn out.

Take Toyota for example. :) A lot of newer Toyota product simply lives on Toyota's reputation. The Landcruiser is awesome and well built, and the Tundra is well built too if not a Landcruiser. (and I promise it is not) But, you could not give me a last generation Camry.

Sure, quality ratings were good, but that has as much to do with the owner body and some recently undone shady recall laws the Japanese companies were using. The newest model is back on the right track, but there are areas where Toyota is lackluster just as in every company.

I think in general too many people will take a Japanese car that is well built and imbue it with mythic qualities overlooking things they would pick apart in a domestic car. A good example is the interior of my girlfriends 01 Honda Accord that I nicknamed "14 shades of grey in honor" of it's interior. Because as best as I can tell, that is how many shades of grey there are in the interior.

That is just inexcusable and the only car I have seen that has color matching that poor is a Neon. And, the materials are pretty dissapointing as well IMO. To be fair everything is lovingly assembled, but the problem is the materials they assembled it out of. She bought the car on my recomendation and I would happily reccomend an Accord to anyone as they are well built, reliable cars. But just like everything else they have their issues.

And, let me say now so that I can point out that this is an area with which I am familiar.....besides working for a Japanese car company I also sold European luxury cars once upon a time. And, that job with the Japanese car company, I worked with the interior of the car. ;) I think I have the interior thing down pat.

Finally I take issue with "Japanese style" manufacturing. For anyone who may have missed History 101 when we rebuilt Japan after WWII we showed them the techniques we used to drastically outproduce tham and make a better product at the same time. The techniques they use are almost wholesale American techniques, but it is to their credit that they saw the peace-time value of some of these.

That said out of the trucks mentioned I will pick the Ford. Here is why.

The Titan is unattractive inside and out, but I will chalk that up to preference and not consider it. Build quality of the Titan is not impressive when you get in it as materials seem and likely are cheap. To give credit where it is due the basics of the truck seem well-built. Power is great and value is good IMO. Utility is pretty good too. It's like the Japanese built a Dodge Ram.

The Tundra has an awesome interior and I am not surprised as this is a strong area for Toyota. Ride and handling should be better considering size. Power is not bad, but this is largely because the truck is pretty small. Reliability will probably be very good assuming you do not beat on it as Toyota's pickups are not built very "heavy" anymore. Pricing is laughable. If not for the price tag this truck would make a good choice for those who do not actually use their truck. (Land Crusiers can still be rode hard and put up wet btw)

The Chevy/GMC is just the also ran of this group. I cannot think of a single thing the GM twins are best at. For that matter I cannot think of a single thing they are second best at. This is a truck looking for a redesign.

The Dodge acts like...a Dodge. Bold styling and a lot of power (like the Titan) for the money are this trucks strong points. Rides like an iron canoe and cheap touches abound inside. Another value leader, but again with compromises.

The F-150 only falls down in the power dept IMHO. And then only because it weighs so much. That weight comes from a very stout frame and chassis which is a trade-off I will gladly make in this class of vehicle.

The interior is awesome (only Toyota gets close) and the ride is very, very nice. Utility is great as is value....this truck is not a lot of money for what you get.

For me it isn't even close.

of course is the american's that showed the japanese the Shewhart and Deming cycle method.

however its the japanese that perfected the process, and then inturn re taught it back to the american's as the Izigawa method, etc etc.

of course is the american's that showed the japanese the Shewhart and Deming cycle method.

however its the japanese that perfected the process, and then inturn re taught it back to the american's as the Izigawa method, etc etc.

I respect Japanese manufacturers in general, and have a very good friend who works for Hino truck in Japan. But, when Japan supposedly "perfects" something it basically means they put a very, very mild twist on it and called it their own.

Also, in order to call the modifications the Japanese made "perfecting" the methods we gave them, you would have to believe they were all improvements and I do not. In the end I think the Japanese just made the methods their own in a way that best suited their culture and everyone does that.

I would have to pick the Dodge Ram hands down. I think that the Hemi engine is very stout for having a 9:1 compression ratio. I also think that it is by far the best looking truck out there. I hear some of you arguing about towing and payload numbers. These are ambiguous numbers. You can put whatever number you want on there. However, towing and payload are determined by many things like your hitch, frame, gearing, and power.

The list goes on.

Personally, syr74 put things very well. The Dodge Ram is a little cheaper inside, but what do you expect for the money? It isn't a very expensive truck. Besides, most people that actually use their trucks are probably going to dirty up the interior anyhow. My brother owns a Ram and has never had a problem with the transmission; in fact he has owned three Rams and has never had problems with the transmissions. Also, if you get a Ram 3500 with the Cummins, it just can't be beat in my opinion.

In all honesty I can't pick the Titan or the Tundra because they horribly over priced. The Titan is butt ugly and the Tundra is plain. The Chevy is also pretty ugly up front and plain from the sides. If I couldn't pick the Dodge I would have to give Ford the nod. Their line of trucks are good looking and the power stroke is nothing to laugh at. I also think that integrated trailer brake is a pretty damn cool idea.

polygon how are you calling hte titan overpriced when the starting price is only 22K? the starting price for your ram is 24K

the top of the line titan is 35K, and hte top of the line gasoline powered ram is 38K.

plus all the titans comes with the 5.6 liter v8.

polygon how are you calling hte titan overpriced when the starting price is only 22K? the starting price for your ram is 24K

the top of the line titan is 35K, and hte top of the line gasoline powered ram is 38K.

plus all the titans comes with the 5.6 liter v8.

Oh, sorry, my mistake.

It must have just been the Tundra that seemed to have a high price tag. I thought the base Titan was more around the $30,000 range.

yes the most priciest trucks there are definitly the tundra and the chevy. the title of most over price has to go to chevy though.

the most expensive in the group with the oldest design.

plus all the titans comes with the 5.6 liter v8.


Another reason why I pick the F-150 and not the titan not alot of options. I think the F-150 has everyone beat when it comes to styles and configureations.

Yup

The Tundra looks nice and has got power, but a 32-valve DOHC engine in a truck? No thanks, do you have any idea how much gas that thing would be capable of going through (especially when speeding on the freeway, stuck in the high RPM's...) I know I'd screw myself with a DOHC V8 truck,



Actually a v8 4wd access cab has equal/better gas milage than a 4.3L V6 Silverado (reg-cab 2wd) based on my freiends and mine city numbers Plus the tundra was driven a little harder. the numbers were around 15-16 mpg.

I have never been on the freeway for a full tank of gas so i cannot deny/confirm your DOHC eating gass theory, but it does sound reasonable

I have to look at what the hardcore work areas use for trucks. Im seeing alot of Ford F-150 7700 and now the 8200's , they come with the 5.4's and have an excellent payload as well as the best drive trains. Also Ford rangers FX4 (I know its not a 150 or 1500) this little truck has the best factory off road setup I ever seen in a factory truck. I look at interior and extrerior quality , the Fords are tougher in body and interior design. I used a tundra to move scrap metal it bottomed out easily so I used a ford f150 4.6 and it was like adding nothing to the box as compared to the tundra , the price range was close to f150 4.6 v8 and it was a slighly quicker truck but it had no payload on the ford or dodge or chevs for that matter. Just my opinion , If the oil patch here uses nothing but ford they must work harder cus most of those guys love chevy and yet there beloved chevies all got pulled out of the field cus they suck for hard work.
Sport trucks are a different story to me cus I find its use less unless its a smaller truck like the rangers . s10's and the older dakotas.
Sorry for my opinion's hope I didnt offend to many.

I have never been on the freeway for a full tank of gas so i cannot deny/confirm your DOHC eating gass theory, but it does sound reasonable

if you drive like a reasonable person there probably isn't that big of a difference in freeway mileage between a OHV, OHC or DOHC...

But I'm always passing and hammering the throttle on the highway, thats why I know I'd be up shits creek with one of those twin cam V8's. From my own highway experiences driving a 24-valve DOHC V6 where I'd get to 6500 RPM every lane change, the gas mileage was unbelievably pathetic (as expected though right).

The mere though of having 32 valves maxed out and operating at over 5000 RPM for dozens and dozens of brief periods during a highway run is enough to scare me away...

But again, I could only see highway mileage being an issue for the twin cam V8 trucks if you got into the high RPMs.

Well last I remember reading from Car & Driver, Ford's F-150 was the #1 seller in this catagory. If that's true then they must be doing something right to keep those sells.
I'll give it to Ford because when their new F-150 came out I heard so many good things about it. It also got MotorTrend's 2004 Truck of the Year.

Also ford doesnt have a lineup of engines like chev and dodge , the 4.2 v6 , the 4.6 v8 and the 5.4 v8 standard engines. Then the Duty engines that now have the same 5 speed auto transissions as the 6.0 diesals , 6.0 v8 diesals , 6.8 liter v10 and the duty version 5.4 v8. I drive all these trucks on a regular basis and I think its a no contest for quality compared to chev (not far behind ford)and especially dodge who is considered by most to be 10 years behind in engine technology not to mention there fossil tecnology transmissions. I think if dodge was to stop making so many concepts and highly unatainable cars to the common market they could get there feet on the ground and do some much needed catching up. Since dodge truck bodies are tough the power train and engine should be tough too. Dont even bother telling me that the Cummings is a better diesal cus Ford turned it over to Dodge years ago knowing that ford had alot better diesals on the way. I dont mean to sound mean but really when a car manufacturer costs me money and I dont like there product I am just not a happy camper. (Dodge borrows Tax Payers money to get out of debt) so you might be able to see where I am comming from. Plus a 600,000 vehicle recall for wheels flying off there really on the ball with research and devolopment.
Sorry Im obviously a Ford Fan and I think that may make me biased. LOL a ford fan who drives a souped up Grand Am lmao.

Nissan Titan for me, I like the styling and I despite what others have said I like the interior. Strong reliable motor, what's not to like

Plus a 600,000 vehicle recall for wheels flying off there really on the ball with research and devolopment.
Sorry Im obviously a Ford Fan and I think that may make me biased. LOL a ford fan who drives a souped up Grand Am lmao.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

A Ford fan mocking a Dodge recall?!?!?!? Yeah, a 600,000 vehicle recall is bad but it still doesn't compare to "the most deadly auto safety crisis in American history" which belongs to none-other than the blue oval.

" The Firestone tire recall is perhaps the most deadly auto safety crisis in American history. US regulators on 16 October, 2000 have raised the death count to 119 (the death count has steadily risen from 62, later to 88 and 101 deaths reported on 9/20/2000). Experts believe there may be as many as 250 deaths and more than 3000 catastrophic injuries associated with the defective tires. Most of the deaths occur in accidents involving the Ford Explorer which tends to rollover when one of the tires blows out."

"The Ford Explorer sport-utility vehicle rolls over more often than other SUV's do in tire-tread accidents, and it has vibration and suspension problems that Ford can't always explain and sometimes can't fix. Those flaws raise the suspicion that the Explorer itself is contributing to the sometimes fatal accidents that forced the Bridgestone/Firestone recall. An internal memo from Ford of Venezuela says that the Explorer "turned over unexpectedly" when Firestone tires lost their treads, but that other SUV's didn't in similar circumstances. About 31% of Explorer complaints cited mysterious vibrations. Many could not be cured, even after dealers changed tires, shock absorbers and drive-shafts. Less frequent is an odd tire-wear pattern called "cupping." It shows up in less than 2% of Explorer complaints, but never shows up in most other Ford truck models."

http://www.firestone-tire-recall.com/pages/overview.html

^

Well said, :grinno:

I own an 02 Dakota, and havn't had any problems thus far, gonna take it in for my recall though, even "reliable" Honda had a recall, (I know first hand since it was my father's CR-V).

Shouldn't judge a company like that, especially coming from a Ford fan's mouth.

Speaking of wheels falling off a couple months before that recall the wheel on my uncles durango fell off. His whole family was in the car on vacation and they were even pulling a tent trailer when it happened. They were going 70mph and ended up facing the opposite direction in the same lane. They probably woulda flipped if the trailer wasnt attached.

I'm Voting the GMC Sirrea. I like the Denali(C3 Style[extd cab]). The qudrasteer makes it a dream to pull with. Someone I know of has one w/ dual exhaust, gooseneck hitch, Firestone airbags. It is one of the gas pullers around. Second choice would be the Ram 1500 Hemi.