Fun Daily Driver: S13 240sx or E30 325e or i

I'm trying to decide on which of these three cars to get. There are several of each available in my area, so finding them is not a problem. I researched the cars to a point where I can't decide between the two.

Basically, I chose these cars because of RWD, great handling, decent power, and reliability. I'm looking to spend less than 4000, because hopefully I'm selling my Pathfinder for like 7000 and I want some money left over for mods.

Gas mileage is a priority however, as I will start college soon, which means a 60 mile commute to Charlotte each day, in both city and highway conditions. I know that the 240sx and 325e get pretty decent mileage, but I'm not sure about the 325i. My friend has one, and he always complains about it getting bad mileage, even on the highway, but it may just be the way he drives it. I am coming from driving a Nissan Pathfinder however, and I highly doubt it can get any worse with the bimmer, even if driven hard.

Also, cost of maintainence is something I've been thinking about. The 240sx benefits from plentiful spare motors for sale (due to all the people spending money on SR20det swaps), cheap replacement parts, cheap mods, and the ease of working on the cars. The bimmers, on the other hand, would cost alot if something serious went wrong that would require me to take them to a dealer. It's not so much the cost of the parts (you can get most for cheap from BMP Design) but the labor. Most of the minor stuff would be easily taken care of with some time and a Bentley manual though.

I've always wanted a BMW and it's the company I want to work for, but my family has had good luck with Nissans, so I am tempted to get the 240. Plus, I would like to get into Auto-X and drifting, and the 240 would be cheaper to modify.

Anyway, I just need some feedback on which I should choose. Advice from previous owners of these cars is preferred, but advice from anyone is appreciated.

I can't be much help since I have no experience with either car. However, the last time I went autoxing the two fastest cars that day were two E30 3 series BMWs.

Finding two BMW's that set the fastest time of the day at an autoX doesnt mean they are any better or worse than a 240SX...but I have had experience w/240SX's and I can tell you...they are great...the BMW's have a decent aftermarket...it's not bad...but the 240SX's is growing like wild fire...so many options...

The BMW has great steering and good suspension just like the 240SX does...probably the BMW's brakes are just a bit better than the 240SX's...

But take into account repair costs...to fix a 240SX is relatively very very cheap compared to BMW parts...

So take that into account

That is why I said that I have no experience with these cars, so by no means am I saying that the 240 can't perform. In fact there weren't any 240s there that day, in fact I haven't really seen any around here at all.

whats the difference between the 325e and 325i? and what are the difference between them and the m3's?

Both the 325e and i have the M20 Inline Six Motor, but different versions. The 325e has a low revving 2.7 liter that is built for fuel economy and torque and produces 121hp at 4250rpm. The 325i has a 2.5 liter high revving version that puts out 168hp at 5700rpm. The 325e has more torque than the stock i however and it can grow to 192lb-ft with a Jim Conforti chip. The 325i will ultimately be faster, whether stock or modified, but the 325e can get 30+ mpg on the highway and has more torque than even a chipped 325i, resulting in a car that feels quick, even if it's not up to the 325i standards, esp for top end power.

The E30 M3 is a totally different animal. The only body part it shares with any other three series is the doors and the suspension was totally revised. Totally different powertrain setup also. It has a 2.3 liter, high compression, high revving, race derived 4 cylinder producing 192hp at 6750rpm. The only reason there is even a road version is because of the homogalation rules of the 1980's, meaning BMW had to produce a certain number of road versions for the race version to be allowed. The race prepped M3's dominated the touring car scene from the time they were released in Europe in 87 to the early 90's. These cars are a very bad choice for a daily driver however (unless you have $$$) as the repair costs are appropriate for a race derived motor, as is insurance.

Nobody else has any advice or experience with these cars?

come on, someone else has to have an opinion or advice

id go with the 240sx. i feel that the 240sx is the better car, mainly because of its suspension, even if its the e30 m3 version. the240sx uses a multlilink rear suspension, and e30 uses semi trailing arms.

heres a good article on the z3, and the e30 m3 semi trailing arm rear suspension.

http://www.zvolution.com/Z3Faq/suspension/suspension.htm

BMW's reall suck. Anything over on of them...There ok for .5 percent of the time...When something isn't wrong with them.

Good grief, please don't listen to ricesucks. BMWs have some of the best reliability records on the planet. Not to mention, I want to see ONE 240 with as equal compression as my e30 325iC. German metallurgy is far superior and as a result the engines tend to last much longer. 250,000 - 300,000 miles is not uncommon for an un-touched M20 engine in a BMW with regular maintenance.

If you want fun-to-drive, you can't look at numbers alone. If you want to seriously have a grin on your face when you go to work, in my humble opinion, nothing beats the BMW. Interior noise, ride quality, handling, fit and finish, quality of materials, NVH, and the feedback you get from the road are only topped by newer BMWs.

I personally have 156k on mine and here's what it looks like. No problems, no nothin. 170 hp, better handling than even a modified 240, and much better resale value.

Ricesucks is entitled to his opinion, but from my viewpoint here's how it looks. BMWs have all the reliability of the Japanese. They tend to use better quality materials. We often times overlook it when we look at numbers, but things like the seats, carpet, headliner, climate control, and other peripherals tend to last longer in BMWs. The two shortcomings I see with BMW; slightly more expensive parts, and the headache you get from the permanent grin on your face.

http://www.curtisandkim.com/bmw1.jpg

BMW's reall suck. Anything over on of them...There ok for .5 percent of the time...When something isn't wrong with them.

Not only are you ignorant about BMWs, you have also failed at English. I like this line, "Anything over on of them."


Like I said in another thread, with BMWs you are less likely to need to replace parts, but when you do it can be expensive. If you treat them well, they will last a long time. I'd also be willing to bet that the insurance on an E30 3er would be lower then a 240sx.

The two shortcomings I see with BMW; slightly more expensive parts, and the headache you get from the permanent grin on your face.

Two more big ones: haughty, holier-than-thou attitude at the dealerships, and poorly laid-out interiors. Little details like the size and grip of the cupholders and button size and placement are not as good in the 3 Series as they are in most Japanese cars.

Id say it all depends on the price. I havent driven any of the bmw's listed but i have driven a couple 5 series and they are great fun cars to drive. I have also driven a 240 and i have to say although it might not make as much power it is one of the most fun cars i have ever driven. Id say the best way to settle this problem is to flip a coin.

Well guys, I can't spell, Shot me!...Anyways, my dad had a 1995 BMW 325i....It needed about 3,000 dollars of work after he drove it for 30,000 miles...It had 70,000 on it....Sorta sucks for him...Well, I guess some BMW's could be relible, Just not to my experince

i forgot what magazine it was, maybe it was consumer report, but the newer bmw's didnt have a good reliability rating. like the 2000-2004 model yrs. im sure the reliability is still not that bad, as long as you take care of it.

well, its also pretty darn relative. If you ask a Rover owner about how well their discovery holds up in reliability, they'll tell you its great, but consumer reports rated them exactly 177% worse than average in reliability. I would say that 250k miles with only timing belt changes, oil changes, and one spark plug change is pretty darn reliable for me in my older 1987 BMW. I did some other things like a fuel pressure regulator and the previous owner did some O2 sensors and all the other emissions equipment, but for all that mileage and under $1000 cash outlay, I'd call it pretty good.

...Also, the title of this thread is "fun daily driver."

I think the amount of maintenance to a BMW is highly inflated by non-BMW owners. I also think that if you're buying parts at the "holier than thou" parts counters, you are right that they cost a ton. With internet mail order parts, most of my E30 parts are cheaper than my wife's Tercel parts. Then, working on an E30 is no more difficult (in fact I find it easier) than any other car. They thought of everything. Even the way the oil filter drains to prevent messes and the way the brake pads fit into the calipers for easy changing. The layout of maintenance items makes it very easy to do. BMW has just capitalized on the fact that most Bimmer owners don't do their own maintenance and they have purposely mystified it. They make maintenance a luxury that rich owners think is better to be done at the dealer.

Let's get past the BMW stereotypes and answer the question. I personally (having owned an E30 and having driven the 240s13 for about a few months) would choose an E30 with 150k long before I would even consider a 240 with 100k. The experience can't be quantified. BMW has taken automotive engineering to its extremes. I get so tired of people saying that, "this car acclerates better, and this one had more power, or this one handles better." I don't care what parameter it is, regardless of the numbers, BMW feels better and puts more smiles on your face.

I stand by my recommendation. If you want a fun car, just get the E30. Its designed to handle, provide a comfortable experience, and its not a souped-up economy car. There I said it.

Mileage is something to consider. I never checked the mileage in my roomate's 240 when I drove it, but my 325iC with a VERY heavy foot in stop and go L.A. traffic, I get 20 mpgs. On the highway at about 70 mph on a good flat stretch of highway I can get as much as 27, but you can't count on that. 24-25 can be expected based on what other owners have said.

If you want some honest, mature counterpoint and a true assessment of the E30's shortcomings and advantages, visit www.bmwe30.net (http://www.bmwe30.net) and read through the forums. Ask questions and you'll get mature answers from real e30 techs and enthusiasts from as far as South Africa, Japan, UK, and Australia.

My apologies for my stabs at earlier posts. I understand the dilemna you're facing in your choice, EuroG20, but in my opinion, you can't compare these two vehicles any more than you can compare a Cavalier up to the 240. Granted, the e30 isn't as much of a step up as that example, but they are apples and oranges. The BMW is a driving machine that was engineered from the ground up as an enthusiast vehicle. Although Japan has made several enthusiast vehicles, that is not their typical design goal for most of their vehicles. Reliability in transportation is their strong point. Let's face it; Japan got the electronics genes and the crowded city streets, Germany got the metallurgy genes and the Autobahn. America evidently got the "let's finish this car and grab a beer" genes. :) Although both of your choices are easily placed in the same basic category with some modifications, it is my strong belief from experience that the BMW will excel in almost every category with the fewest trade offs. The e30 in stock form handles as well as a slightly modified 240 without as much of a stiff ride as the modded 240 would have. When you test drive them, pay close attention to how the road feels throught the steering wheel and how the pedals transfer commands to the car. Maybe you're not at a point where that is of importance to you, but if you are a driving enthusiast, there is no comparison.

If you do maintenance yourself, the e30 is the clear choice. Parts can be delivered to your door the next day for no more money than most Nissan and Toyota parts, and I think you'll find that once you get your hands greasy on one of these cars you'll appreciate the excellence in their engineering. Also, like Dinan M3 said, they'll fail less frequently which balances out the overall cost of maintenance.

If you insist on taking your e30 to a dealer for repairs, just know that it will cost a bit more... OK, a lot more. Find a good independent German repair place, buy your own parts, and you'll not spend more than fixing a 240.

.... and that's not just cause I'm selling my e30 :lol:

i understand steering feel, shifter smoothness and all that, but if you drove the e30 or the e30 m3 to its limit, you ll feel its semi trailing arm suspension characteristics. when you go hard into a corner, and lift off the throttle, the wheel will toe out, and cause it to oversteer more, making it easier to spin out. the e30 m3 is known for its twitchy rear end, and everyone who races these cars know about it. the main reason for this design was for compactness, and cost, not because of performance. just because its bmw doesnt mean it ll perform better, or always feel better, i feel that the s13 240sx will peform, and feel better when put to its limit. the semi trailing arm is an old design, and the multilink suspension is a newer design that performs better, and you ll feel the difference.

heres the article i posted earlier in this thread, it explains more about the e30 rear suspension.

http://www.zvolution.com/Z3Faq/suspension/suspension.htm

I can respect that counterpoint. That is a good article, by the way.

I'd say the 240, especially if you plan to mod it. I think $3000 will go farther in mods on a 240 than it would on a BMW simply because there are waaaaay more parts available for it.

Well, after much thought and some talking with some E30 owners, I bought a 1990 325i with 110k, perfect interior (with seats from an IS), and a well maintained motor. The road feel and handling are phenomenal for a stock car. I can't wait to get some Eibach Pro Kits and Bilsteins on there!

Curtis 73, you are right about the parts being just as cheap or cheaper than Nissan parts. I knew this beforehand because I have been getting BavAuto and BMP Design catalogues for about a year even though I didn't have a Bimmer until now. Guess I was setting myself up to be a Bimmer owner, lol.

I plan on most of the maintainence myself, unless it involves something that would require a shop (tranny work, internal work, etc).

I've already ordered new plugs, Mahle air filter, Mann oil filter, and a new vaccum hose and intake boot kit from BMP. These will go on sometime this week, at which time one of my friends (E30 owner) is gonna help me do a valve adjustment.

I'm really glad I stepped up and got the E30. I did test drive a 240 and had driven my friend's E30 and there is no comparison. THE E30 IS MORE FUN, HANDS DOWN. Don't get me wrong, the 240 is a great car, but BMWs are driver's cars. The feedback and steering feel are second to none.

As for the handling at the limit, I've tested the car's limits already (in a safe environment of course- empty parking lot) and the car responds well, easy to regain control if you know what you are doing. Yes E30's might have a reputation for a touchy rear end at the limit, but so do 911's, and they are some of the most fun cars on the planet, as long as you know how to drive them.

Thanks to everyone for their advice. Now I'm gonna go drive my car some more!

Another win for the bimmer guys :sunglasse:

Enjoy the E30 and come spend some time in the BMW forums.

Congrats on your E30. Hope it serves you as well as mine serves me :)

hrrmmm maybe I should sell my 240 and get a BMW shiaza! They are both good cars, apples and oranges. I have never driven an e30 so I can't say anything, but to call a 240 a souped up economy car is stupid. I hate it when ppl generalize cars, like Lexus is a "suped up Toyota." It's a different car, I can call an e30 an old granny car made to be comfortable, but it really comes down to being a different car.

Another win for the bimmer guys :sunglasse:

Wait, wait, how the hell did the Bimmer guys "win"? Since when is this a competition to see who can get more people to buy the same car as them? That sounds pretty counter-productive and anti-individualistic to me.