Fuel Economy/Engine Perameters??

2000 Ford Windstar, 3.8L
Last summer I completed the entire TSB 03-16-1 and recal'd PCM to latest version. I had the 171/174 problem and mileage was bad then. I have seen no improvement (eats gas). I have a good scanner and am listing the perameters in hopes that the experts I usually find in this forum can notice something that I cannot: (All perameters are at idle, in Park, on 59 F day).

Fuel System Closed Loop
Load Value 21.9% - 22.3%
Coolant Temp 208 F
Short Term Fuel Trim 1 2.3% to 1.6%
Long Term Fuel Trim 1 6.2%
Short Term Fuel Trim 2 2.3% to 1.6%
Long Term Fuel Trim 2 6.2%
RPM 698 - 710
Ignition Timing Advance 18.5 - 21.0
Intake Air Temp 82 F
Air Flow Rate .40 lbs/min
Throttle Position 18%
O2 Sensor 1 Bank 1 .085 to .665 v
O2 Sensor 2 Bank 1 .815 to .810 v
O2 Sensor 1 Bank 2 .095 to .730 v
O2 Sensor 2 Bank 2 .765 to .815 v

If any experts are willing to review this and give me any tips, It would be most appreciated. I am currently serving overseas and have no Ford dealer to help me out.

I'm no expert, but your voltage readings from your bank 2 O2 sensors are way higher than bank one, possibly indicating a rich condition in that bank. Are you getting a check engine light? How does the van run?
G/luck
Joel

Joel,

The van seems to be running quietly and smoothly except that Im only getting about 10 MPG at best! Seems crazy, but I have tried everything that I can do away from a dealer with no luck.

FORDFAN, where are you?

Mike
I'm here and have been reading but don't have much to offer. I wonder if something/debris could be lodged inside the fuel rail ... prior to the regulator? EDIT: I just reread your post. Are you saying the fuel system is single line... no "return" line back to tank?

Were you "mike2000" of cartrackers fame?

Im no expert as well. But do you ever smell fuel. May have a fast Idle leak.I have a 2000 windstar I am getting 20mpg in the city and 22 to 27mpg on the hwy running 60 mph to 75 to 80 mph on interstate. I also need to do the update on the intake manifold bolts and valve cover. Have not done them yet but do hear a little noise from the system time to time.I have 77000 miles on it right now. Has there been a tune up or plug change in this time and if there has been what did your spark plugs look like??

Changed plugs about 10K ago and all was fine. Im leaning more towards a MAF or possible O2 sensor. Im not sure what else could be damaging the fuel economy so badly. Received an e-mail from a Ford Dealer and they believe their is an electrical problem. Of course they didnt tell me where? I have learned over time that there is always someone else out there that has a same problem or has fixed the same problem. Hopefully they will come across this thread.

Mike

Your really need to watch 2 of the O2 readings, and see that they jump quickly between about .2V and .8V. Several times in a couple of seconds. An O2 sensor can be sluggish and bad enough to cause rough idle and poor economy without setting any codes. Also watch them driving as well as idle.

Mike
I think you missed reading my question. Does your fuel supply have a return line back to the tank or not?
I don't know at what year Ford changed the Winnie fuel system to the single line....but the single line systems would require a fuel temp sensor to avoid vapor lock. I would recommend checking the fuel temp sensor if you have one.

I also agree with the above comment about the O2 sensors.

12Ounce aka Fordfan.

You may also find some help at flatratetech.com as that site has a number of Ford service technicians.... I am still advocating that you use THIS site as well. I have read that the reprogram of the computer involves a slight retarding of the timing to address concerns of "pinging". But please take note that I am only repeating what I have read online and do NOT wish to present myself as any kind of authority on the subject.
I get just over 20mpg with my '96 windstar.
I would personally be concerned about 10mpg, unless you are spending a LOT of time idling (as in traffic).
The other question that I would ask is, as you say you are overseas......What is the fuel there like as compared to in the US?

1. I do believe I have a return line on my fuel system (2 lines)
2. I also noticed 2 more perameters when scanning (didnt scroll down all the way).

Rear O2 Trim Bank 1 819.1% (Huh?)
Rear O2 Trim Bank 2 0%

I have no idea what these perameters mean.

3. I have swapped out all 4 O2 Sensors and still have the same problem.
4. Reprogramming of PCM was completed after TSB 03-16-1..

Sorry I forgot to reply to a view troubleshooting questions:
1. Do I ever smell fuel, no and have checked around for leaks as well.
2. Octane in Italy is higher at about 96, fuel can be dirty so I change the fuel filter about every 6 months.

If the van was sold over there, new, as at a FORD dealership, it should be compatible with the fuels there.

If it was bought new in the states and imported, you might want to look into the difference in the additives used in the gasoline over there as compared North America. Even in the US, there is a wide variation in fuel additives.

Mackab
Do you have an electrical diagram for your model? I'm beginning to think you have some issues with your elect harness conductors or connectors going to your O2 sensors. I'm guessing opens or grounds... that somehow are not causing codes.

Bingo. Decided to take the upper manifold off again to see if an EGR port was clogged and realized that I put new "black" isolator bolts in when I did the TSB. I pulled the the lower off and noticed the gaskets had become unseated in only 6 months. Oil deposits showed the lower had been leaking AGAIN!! I reinstalled with the new "green" isolator bolts and it runs alot smoother and all the fuel trims seems to look better. Im just wondering why I didnt get some type of code thrown for lower intake leaks. Thanks to all for all the help.

I now have a plastic sounding occasional rattle coming from within the manifold. I think its the piece inside the manifold that I heard needs a dab of RTV. I will post as a new question as this thread is covering a different problem.

I appreciate this info. I also repaired my intake manifold before the updated/green isolator bolts were available. So now I now to be on an extra alert as the black bolts are surely going to fail eventually.

I pasted my inner plastic piece pretty thouroughly with RTV when it was reassembled. In fact, I also put some RTV on the intake "spacer" where the "upper" nests into it. So far, so good.

It just goes to show you that even after changing the valve cover, you still get sufficient oil blow-by to cause problems. The oil was pooled just as much in the upper intake as before I replaced the valve cover. What "spacer are you referring to. The bottom portion of my upper sits directly against the metal of the lower intake?

Must be a year-to-year design change. Or my memory is worse than I thought.

I remember a an 2-piece "upper", a plastic "spacer" (that the throttle body is attached to), and an unknownium metal "lower". Did the spacer just space the outside of the assembly???

My excuse.... its been a couple of years.

I haven't had that much eggnog.......yet!

What upsets me is that I completed the TSB, including the new left hand valve cover (w/out hole) and I was still getting the oil pooled in the upper intake. I dont think the oil-blowby can ever really be cured.

I have a comment on your comment about the fuel over there being dirty......needing frequent fuel filter changes....
There is a "sock" filter on the fuel uptake in the gasoline tank. It is part of the "fuel pump assembley". If you have a lot of crud in your fuel, then you will want to be aware that this "sock" filter can also become clogged. To change, follow the steps to remove the fuel pump assembly.....
I believe that this would require dropping the fuel tank....so I would not do it unless you have to.
Just a head's up in case you have problems later with fuel delivery.

I am not familiar with the intake manifold on the '99 and newer windstar.
The '96 through '98 used a different upper intake manifold, and is not included in the TSB.

One thing you might want to try is to install a motorcraft brand replacement PCV valve that is listed for your windstar. Just a LONG shot, but perhaps you could have a replacement PCV valve (aftermarket brand) that is letting too much air through? An increased flow could draw more stuff into the intake system. I would not recommend going with less flow than is called for either.

Just an update on my 2000 3.8L. Ever since I changed the isolator bolts out with the proper "Green" ones, my van has never run better, quieter, better accelleration, and gas mileage. If you bother doing the TSB, DO NOT accept the older style "Black" isolator bolts.