Honda Civic Si Vs. Acura Integra SE

This is my choice...

I've narrowed down my search for a new car to these 2. The integra has leather seats and its $1500 cheaper than the Si but its 2 years older and has higher mileage. And the Si has a better engine... 20 extra hp from the get go


Which would you choose?

Si hands down. Lower milage, you can change the seats for a lot cheaper than you would pay to make up the power difference from the B18B to the B16A's range.

Si hands down. Lower milage, you can change the seats for a lot cheaper than you would pay to make up the power difference from the B18B to the B16A's range.

Thats what i was thinking... but some people have been telling me the integras engine is better to mod. It has more torque, better to boost, and even going N/A is better if you do the LS/Vtec thing

btw the Civic is a '99 with 38,000 miles and the teg is a '97 with 57,000 miles

I think the Civic Si is the smarter choice here...lots of options of what to do...just be careful where you park it

I'd go with the Integra on this one. You have more usable torque, a better suspension (double wishbone front and rear), a more competent chassis, a nicer interior, and a lower price.

I'd go with the Integra on this one. You have more usable torque, a better suspension (double wishbone front and rear), a more competent chassis, a nicer interior, and a lower price.


DAMN! you guys are making this such a hard decision! I was leaning towards the Si, now i'm back to the middle and i dont know. Cause i like the interior of the integra, but the Si is newer and faster


Somebodies gotta make this decision easier for me!

Somebodies gotta make this decision easier for me!

Just get the Integra; it's cheaper and it handles better. Don't worry about straight-line speed, you can go LS/VTEC or LS Turbo if you want to drag race.

If you are talking about the civic si with the k20. go with that. If you're talking about the civic si with the b16 get the teg.

If you don't have a ton of cash and/or automotive engine performance knowledge and experience, then don't go with the LS with intentions of going LS/Vtec.

LS/Vtec is a real bitch to get done right and a small thing like drilling the oil squirter in the wrong way/spot can cost you an entire block after a full build.

As far as handling, I would put money on the Si on a road course against the SE stock for stock. The money difference between the SE and the Si isn't enough for him to mod it to an Si's stock performance. He would need full bolt on's, changed out tires and the sway bars, and that's just to compete stock for stock.

His gas milage will also go to crap with all these mods too.

Oh and btw... As far as tuning better. That's total bull. The Si has a 1.74:1 Rod:Stroke ratio, meaning that if you get the right valve/air mods, you can rev it up in the upwards of 13,000RPM or higher. That's Formula 1 type revving. The B16A2 is great for Non-aspirated tuning.

The B18B is only good NA if you go LS/Vtec, and that's too hit/miss as far as reliability. Everyone here might say all this stuff about LS/Vtec, but when you talk to real Honda enthusiasts that have worked with it before, they'll give you horror stories.

Oh and btw... As far as tuning better. That's total bull. The Si has a 1.74:1 Rod:Stroke ratio, meaning that if you get the right valve/air mods, you can rev it up in the upwards of 13,000RPM or higher. That's Formula 1 type revving. The B16A2 is great for Non-aspirated tuning.

The B18B is only good NA if you go LS/Vtec, and that's too hit/miss as far as reliability. Everyone here might say all this stuff about LS/Vtec, but when you talk to real Honda enthusiasts that have worked with it before, they'll give you horror stories.


is the B18 really that much better to turbo than a B16 or are the differences minimal.... cause i might turbo in the future but that would be atleast 2 years away.

I'm still leaning more towards the Si cause its newer, lower mileage and quicker from the start.... but fuck! I love leather interior and the SE does look good

Which car is cheaper to turbo?

Put both cars at a track or a quarter mile strip and the Civic Si will outperform the Acura SE.

The Civic Si is a sports oriented car, while the SE is just a passenger hatch/coupe...the GSR or Type R are sports oriented but the SE doesent have what it takes to beat or stay with the Civic si.

I realize that the Si is more performance-oriented, but the Integra SE still has a better suspension and a bigger motor that is easier to turbo. If you wanna keep your car N/A, then I guess that doesn't really matter, but turbocharging is the real way to get a ton of power out of your engine.

I realize that the Si is more performance-oriented, but the Integra SE still has a better suspension and a bigger motor that is easier to turbo. If you wanna keep your car N/A, then I guess that doesn't really matter, but turbocharging is the real way to get a ton of power out of your engine.


Its this attitude that annoys me about so many Honda owners.

Cheaper and simple is NOT BETTER and NEVER WILL BE.

Now stop running down the suspension on the Si.
If its an older one, with the B16a, then it uses the same set up as the Integra, and is infact better. The Civic is lighter and the suspension was orginaly designed to work with the Civic, then adapted to work on the Integra. Since the Integra is wider and longer at the extreme limits it does not perform as well (its why the Integra Type R uses quite differnt suspension to the regular Integras).

If its a new model Si then its based on the Civic Type R sold in Japan and Europe but with a lower spec engine. Despite not having the double wishbone set up of previous generations the new Type R is the best handling Civic ever, and is regarded as one of the best handlng FWD cars ever made.


The B18b is only considered to be better for Turbo charging because of its low stock comp. ratio.
However if you want to get serious about Turbo Charging any Honda B series engine then you should be useing aftermarket pistons and rods for the added strength, and to lower the comp. ratio.
And while the B18 series engines have more torque and are able to make more power than the smaller B16 engines, in an Integra they also have a lot more weight to move around completely negating any advantage the extra capacity offers.


Now the biggest thing to take into consideration here is that he wants; a sports orintated car.
The Integra SE is not, and to make it so will require a lot more than simply turbo charging the engine.
A sports car also has to have sports orintated suspension and brakes, and they have to be tuned to work with the car. This means they have to be designed to be sports orintated to begin with.
While you can add a suspension package to the Integra to give it better handling, the Si comes with it stock and if added to will always be better.
Like wise the brakes, you can add bigger better brakes to the Integra, but why spend the time and money when the Si comes with big brakes from the factory.
Everytime you add parts to a car, or modifiy it beyond its orginal design you start to affect its reliablity and you start making sacrifices to how it handles and performs.
If you want a fast car then starting with a fast car, designed to be fast, will make for a more reliable nicer to drive base to work with than a car designed to be an economical grocery getter.


Of course if you are very knowledgable and want to build up a car exactly how you would like it to be, and all you need is a body shell and an engine block then buy the Integra. But then you wouldn't be asking questions on an internet forum, you would be answering them.

wow great post Moppie... everything you said i've heard to be true. But some people on AF were confusing me.

I'm now 90/10 for the Si... (its the '99 B16 one btw) as long as the engine checks out and it doesnt get sold it will be mine :devil:

Ignore what I said, I don't know jack shit about Hondas. I would have assumed that any Integra (even the SE) would use bigger brakes and a tighter suspension than any Civic, but I guess not. Still, the Integra is cheaper, and you like the interior better. Up to you.

you're not the only one who told me the integra has better suspension :D its all good

well it looks like I'll be going for the Integra after all... the Si was a complete piece of shit under it all. I got it checked out at honda and guess what i found out:

The transmissions already been changed, and the bolts on it are loose

The struts are leaking and not installed properly

Theres lowering springs in the front, and coilovers in the back that arent even the same brand.

It had extremely low clutch fluid... and the clutch was just changed

and the kicker.... there was NO oil in the engine. Who the fuck owns an Si and drives it with NO oild in the engine.


there was more, but that was the important shit

Good job not being cheap and taking the cars to get checked out :)

Yeah I forgot to mention lol:
90% of the Civic Si's you see on sale will be the ones that are driven like shit.

The reason for this is simple. Civic SI owners that treat the car well, keep it and mod it up the high end. Civic SI owners that trade it in for something faster, chances are they didn't like how it performed stock compared to like, S2000's, so they drove it really hard.

Then there are the third group of Civic SI owners, that just drive them to shit and then sell them. I'm talking about people that neglect regular maintenance at the same time that they drive like a maniac.

thats true ..i have a 95 LS integr a i bought it from some old man it was aut also ..2500$ ..i bought a full gsr swap from this guy i work with becaus he wanted a old school dastun but need quick cash so i paid 1000$ i bout all the other things i need to change it over l(most stuff from junkyard that cost me a total of 300$ now im selling the gsr motor for 1000$ ... got a free garret t3/t04b turbo never use the manifold and externall 38 mm wastegate ..he wreck his car before he can use it and ive always leant him money when he really needed it ..i made my on charge pipes total 40$ fmic 125$ takes up my whole opening .. he just found his fittings and hoses so im getting them from him tomarrow i got a dsm bov from the junk yard 15$ ..ive been installed a walbro 255 fuel pump for the gsr motor i didnt know what mods i was gonna do ....so if you just take the time with your integra and find some deals and work on your own car shops rip you off i do all my own work for years installed a turbo on my bro integra 2 years ago hes not greedy been running 5psi with fum also ..good to here but imma try out hondata for my car and the max i want is to run 8psi so all in all i havent spent much and i do my own work so no labor cost only when i use the shop and its 2$ hour ..imma buy a few mor parts and install it like in late jan ... oh yea an LS integra can beat an 99 si of the line the top end get him unless you have a friend that cant drive his car so you will win ..and a LS with no back seats ram intake can keep up with a 05 vs mustang if you are worry about those hondas are quick but it takes alot of $$ to make them fast but they are always fun to drive.

Its this attitude that annoys me about so many Honda owners.

Cheaper and simple is NOT BETTER and NEVER WILL BE.

Now stop running down the suspension on the Si.
If its an older one, with the B16a, then it uses the same set up as the Integra, and is infact better. The Civic is lighter and the suspension was orginaly designed to work with the Civic, then adapted to work on the Integra. Since the Integra is wider and longer at the extreme limits it does not perform as well (its why the Integra Type R uses quite differnt suspension to the regular Integras).

If its a new model Si then its based on the Civic Type R sold in Japan and Europe but with a lower spec engine. Despite not having the double wishbone set up of previous generations the new Type R is the best handling Civic ever, and is regarded as one of the best handlng FWD cars ever made.


The B18b is only considered to be better for Turbo charging because of its low stock comp. ratio.
However if you want to get serious about Turbo Charging any Honda B series engine then you should be useing aftermarket pistons and rods for the added strength, and to lower the comp. ratio.
And while the B18 series engines have more torque and are able to make more power than the smaller B16 engines, in an Integra they also have a lot more weight to move around completely negating any advantage the extra capacity offers.


Now the biggest thing to take into consideration here is that he wants; a sports orintated car.
The Integra SE is not, and to make it so will require a lot more than simply turbo charging the engine.
A sports car also has to have sports orintated suspension and brakes, and they have to be tuned to work with the car. This means they have to be designed to be sports orintated to begin with.
While you can add a suspension package to the Integra to give it better handling, the Si comes with it stock and if added to will always be better.
Like wise the brakes, you can add bigger better brakes to the Integra, but why spend the time and money when the Si comes with big brakes from the factory.
Everytime you add parts to a car, or modifiy it beyond its orginal design you start to affect its reliablity and you start making sacrifices to how it handles and performs.
If you want a fast car then starting with a fast car, designed to be fast, will make for a more reliable nicer to drive base to work with than a car designed to be an economical grocery getter.


Of course if you are very knowledgable and want to build up a car exactly how you would like it to be, and all you need is a body shell and an engine block then buy the Integra. But then you wouldn't be asking questions on an internet forum, you would be answering them.

how different is the integra type r suspension? of course it should use different damping, different springs, or whatever, but like is it using a different material like aluminum? is the geometry different? are the arms longer?

is the geometry different? are the arms longer?

Its not radicaly differnt, but if you take a close look the Type-R is built on a differnt chassis, useing differnt pressings.
Things like the sway bars are mounted in slightly differnt places etc.
The differnce isn't much, but it does gear the setup more towards the raceing side than the passanger friendly side of the other models.

It also uses lighter parts. The entire car itself is lightened to avoid any lowered performance. (No power steering I believe? Or was it no power windows?) I don't know what it lacks specifically but I remember it was something that most cars come with stock...

thats true ..i have a 95 LS integr a i bought it from some old man it was aut also ..2500$ ..i bought a full gsr swap from this guy i work with becaus he wanted a old school dastun but need quick cash so i paid 1000$ i bout all the other things i need to change it over l(most stuff from junkyard that cost me a total of 300$ now im selling the gsr motor for 1000$ ... got a free garret t3/t04b turbo never use the manifold and externall 38 mm wastegate ..he wreck his car before he can use it and ive always leant him money when he really needed it ..i made my on charge pipes total 40$ fmic 125$ takes up my whole opening .. he just found his fittings and hoses so im getting them from him tomarrow i got a dsm bov from the junk yard 15$ ..ive been installed a walbro 255 fuel pump for the gsr motor i didnt know what mods i was gonna do ....so if you just take the time with your integra and find some deals and work on your own car shops rip you off i do all my own work for years installed a turbo on my bro integra 2 years ago hes not greedy been running 5psi with fum also ..good to here but imma try out hondata for my car and the max i want is to run 8psi so all in all i havent spent much and i do my own work so no labor cost only when i use the shop and its 2$ hour ..imma buy a few mor parts and install it like in late jan ... oh yea an LS integra can beat an 99 si of the line the top end get him unless you have a friend that cant drive his car so you will win ..and a LS with no back seats ram intake can keep up with a 05 vs mustang if you are worry about those hondas are quick but it takes alot of $$ to make them fast but they are always fun to drive.

umm....i dont know if anyone else tried to read this?!?! not to point you out or anything, but when you get done typing your replies, go back and make sure it is able to be read. use punctuation and put in all the words that make a sentence a sentence. you had some good information in there but nobody can read it, i think. dont get all pissed, im not calling you stupid. im just saying make it easier for people to read what your saying. oh yeah...welcome to AF. :D

and for my comment....
and the kicker.... there was NO oil in the engine. Who the fuck owns an Si and drives it with NO oild in the engine.

the sad thing is that honda builds such great motors, that the car was still going after all it has been through. it seems like alot of people down honda too often. they make strong cars that can last a very long time, whether they are taken care of or not. ok im done...:lol:

I don't know what it lacks specifically but I remember it was something that most cars come with stock...

The Integra Type R never came with air conditioning in America; it might have been an option, I'm not sure.

The Integra Type R never came with air conditioning in America; it might have been an option, I'm not sure.

2000 Acura Integra: The high-performance Type-R returned to the Integra lineup this year, with newly standard air conditioning and the 195-horsepower engine. All Integras gained a standard antitheft engine immobilizer and 100,000-mile tune-up intervals.

thats true ..i have a 95 LS integr a i bought it from some old man it was aut also ..2500$ ..i bought a full gsr swap from this guy i work with becaus he wanted a old school dastun but need quick cash so i paid 1000$ i bout all the other things i need to change it over l(most stuff from junkyard that cost me a total of 300$ now im selling the gsr motor for 1000$ ... got a free garret t3/t04b turbo never use the manifold and externall 38 mm wastegate ..he wreck his car before he can use it and ive always leant him money when he really needed it ..i made my on charge pipes total 40$ fmic 125$ takes up my whole opening .. he just found his fittings and hoses so im getting them from him tomarrow i got a dsm bov from the junk yard 15$ ..ive been installed a walbro 255 fuel pump for the gsr motor i didnt know what mods i was gonna do ....so if you just take the time with your integra and find some deals and work on your own car shops rip you off i do all my own work for years installed a turbo on my bro integra 2 years ago hes not greedy been running 5psi with fum also ..good to here but imma try out hondata for my car and the max i want is to run 8psi so all in all i havent spent much and i do my own work so no labor cost only when i use the shop and its 2$ hour ..imma buy a few mor parts and install it like in late jan ... oh yea an LS integra can beat an 99 si of the line the top end get him unless you have a friend that cant drive his car so you will win ..and a LS with no back seats ram intake can keep up with a 05 vs mustang if you are worry about those hondas are quick but it takes alot of $$ to make them fast but they are always fun to drive.

Please type properly, im getting a headache reading that.


And welcome to AF :)

Well I've driven both and I feel the Integra is a sportier car. It handles better and feels more nimble. The Civic engine sounds nicer but it felt slower. I'm not even sure 99 Civic SI have rear disk brakes or ABS.

In canada 4 disc brakes and ABS.

In USA and Mexico 4 disk brakes no ABS.

2000 Acura Integra: The high-performance Type-R returned to the Integra lineup this year, with newly standard air conditioning and the 195-horsepower engine. All Integras gained a standard antitheft engine immobilizer and 100,000-mile tune-up intervals.

Didn't know they added that in 2000, but yeah, that's what it was missing until then.