Elise vs. Viper

Lotus Elise vs. Dodge Viper SRT-10?

Lotus
Price: $39,985
0-60: 4.7
1/4 mile: 13.4
Slalom: 71.2mph
60-0: 105ft
Skidpad: .98g
80-0: 188ft

Dodge
price: 80,995
0-60: 4.1
1/4 mile: 12.2
Slalom: 68.6mph
60-0: 114ft
Skidpad: 1.04g
80-0: 196ft

does this count as a stupid comparison?
i mean.....
little elise, massive viper.

we all know the elise would kill the viper on a track.....

Well it would really depend on what type of track they are on. The Viper has the brute during the straights, and the Elise will have the agility in tight parts.

drunken monkey...this "stupid comparison" has been made in the fall 2004 issue of SPEED. The tuner magazine that was developed by Road and Track

and for Kurtdg19... the Viper was faster on both tracks the raced on.

Though for the money the elise is a much better buy

I'd rather have the Viper. The Elise is a nimble car and has ok styling. There are other roadsters in its price range I'd own before it.













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what other roadsters?

This was a comparo that was actually done in R/T's Speed magazine...it's a great magazine...it focuses on sports cars and tuners and such...no mini-vans, no clunky trucks or grocery getting family cars...

I would choose the Elise...w/the $40k I saved...I can make an Elise that whoop any Viper on the road course...

Not even that.. You could probably make the Elise whoop Vipers with like 20k, and the other 20k you'd just consider to be saved money, or money you saved on a better choice.

Elise for me please.

Not even that.. You could probably make the Elise whoop Vipers with like 20k, and the other 20k you'd just consider to be saved money, or money you saved on a better choice.

Elise for me please.

Did I say that I had to spend my $40k? I said...w/the $40k I saved...i could whoop some Viper arse :loser:

"speed.....tuner magazine "

no idea what that is.
would i be right in thinking that it has as a focus, tuning?
here's the 'stupid' bit:

1.8 litre inline 4, 190BHP
8.3 litre V10, 500 BHP

y'see that slight difference of 6.5 litres and 310 BHP.

in car terms, that's either a aston martin/ferrari V12 in terms of capacity,
or a an EVO FQ-300 in terms of BHP.

this type of comparison, with a little car that is apparently 'outclassed' in terms of size and numbers, should point you towards which car is actually 'better'.....

if you don't see it, you're probably 14.

and for Kurtdg19... the Viper was faster on both tracks the raced on.


Who would of guessed? :dunno: I'm not really suprised, but still the Elise is a pure bread compared to the hormone injected Viper. My general point was that if you take the big straights away in favor of the muscle, there would be no room for it to flex. Of coarse, throwing a Viper on an autox would still be a blast!! to drive reguardless. Now what happens when I push this throttle magigy peddle down to far? muahahhaaa.

Drunken monkey... That 1.8 liter engine that you're spouting off against happens to be the B18C5 that's acclaimed for the #'s it puts out all over the chart. You also fail to realize that because it's a Honda engine, the aftermarket that backbones it has much cheaper parts than the parts that you'd bolt onto a Viper's V10.

With 3000$ you could get a bolt on Turbo kit intended for Integra use, 600$ for it to fit onto the Elise, and you've just added at least 45-70 wheel horsepower to an already perfect chassis that ran mid 13's prior to the mod.

Don't let the ignorance of some of the mainstream Honda fans fool you; their engines do have some massive potential.

I've seen Integra Type R's in stock trim/drivetrain hold leads on Autocross tracks against NSX's that are acclaimed to hold their ground against Ferrari's. That engine has to be doing something right if front wheel drive cars are so horrid. Don't forget that they took this engine, and put it in the middle of a rear wheel drive, middle engine bay car that weighs about as much as my refrigerator with me inside it.

Drunken monkey... That 1.8 liter engine that you're spouting off against happens to be the B18C5 that's acclaimed for the #'s it puts out all over the chart. You also fail to realize that because it's a Honda engine, the aftermarket that backbones it has much cheaper parts than the parts that you'd bolt onto a Viper's V10.


Oh yea, its that Honda engine that came from a Toyota Celica GTS. Who woulda guessed?

^^^ and you fail to realise that the realise never got the B18C5 engine as originally speculated a few years ago. It went with the Celica GTS engine plus a lotus ECU raising the power to 190hp

EDIT:

Oh yea, its that Honda engine that came from a Toyota Celica GTS. Who woulda guessed?


crap you posted a few seconds before me :p

crap you posted a few seconds before me :p


DRAW....................... :loser: hehe jk

DRAW....................... :loser: hehe jk

I need to practice my mouse clicks :mad:


Anyway back to this comparo, drunken monkey I don't think the idea was that bad. Of course the elise was rather outclassed by a car far more expensive. But I belive the point was tho show two polar oposite aproaches to sport roadsters.


True it would've been more fair if a super elise would be available in the price range of a viper but no such car exists. And anyway the elise put up a good fight as testament of its excellence.

And the "Speed" test was one of the best I've seen. They gave credit to both cars for their strong points, used two very different couses to give each car a home course, and my favorite part was that they actually broke down each course section and shown how each car performed. It gave a very good picture of each cars strength and weakneses.


And to the people that argue mods, lets not get there. If you bring mods into discussion any exotic or expensive car will look bad.

Could I have an Exige instead? I don't like convertibles. :icon16:

Could I have an Exige instead? I don't like convertibles. :icon16:


but that would not be a roadster vs roadster comparo plus Exige is not available in the US.

Tells you what. You bring in the Exige we bring in the VCC. :evillol:

But, seriously, the Viper is a seriously quick car whose handling is often overlooked. Take a look at the stats, the Viper is still posting better numbers than the Elise.

And Vipers are not big heavy cars. In fact, the Viper SRT-10 only weighs in at 3380 lbs. With 500hp on tap that's only 6.76lbs per hp. The Elise, which weighs in at a considerably less (but also considerably less than most any other car out there) 1892lbs has 189hp. Power to weight? Almost a dead even 10lbs per hp.

The Elise is a very VERY good handling car, and it really shows the car's nature that it can still hang in stacked-deck territory like taking on the Viper SRT-10.

Neither car really loses the comparison. The Viper proves its meddle easily, and yet the Lotus reminds us why Colin Chapman was dedicated to suspension innovation and weight reduction.

Tells you what. You bring in the Exige we bring in the VCC. :evillol:

Make it the upcoming Viper GTS, since the CC isn't a road car, and you have a deal. :grinyes:

I think the Viper is pretty cool. It's just not really my thing. I don't like convertibles, so that leaves out the SRT-10 and the Elise together. Viper GTS and Lotus Exige; now that's a match I'd like to see. :biggrin:

Between the two, which would you want on a Sunday afternoon flying through the mountains of California?

The Lotus would walk on the Viper. That little plastic car weighs less than a jay cloth, and is powered by a 190bhp, mid mounted engine. The handeling, balance and driver feedback are phonominal, and while the viper may be faster in a line, the reality is, that there are very few places that are just straight lines. Throw in some other traffic, and a little wheather, and the viper will handle like a sack of rice.

Top Gear have already proven that the Elise can outhandle a Harrier jump jet, I doubt a Viper would present much of a problem.

PS, If you have a problem with open top cars, fit a hard top!

The biggest problem I have is trying to justify my opinion on which car I would rather choose is that fact that I can't come to a means in my decision. I like both cars! Who could dislike driving either of these cars? The agility of the Elise providing excellent prescision driving to a T, and the raw power of the Viper working on solid suspension tearing up the pavement. These cars have great character in the most polar directions! If their is anybody who had ownership of both these cars I would have to reguard him/her as a true enthusiast of all types of sports cars.

the elise would take the viper on an autocross course, but not roadracing....

a little question from me:

using what-ever criteria you base a car on, which do you consider to be the 'better' car?

Mental retardation is a bad thing guys. Remember that.

The Lotus would walk on the Viper. That little plastic car weighs less than a jay cloth, and is powered by a 190bhp, mid mounted engine. The handeling, balance and driver feedback are phonominal, and while the viper may be faster in a line, the reality is, that there are very few places that are just straight lines. Throw in some other traffic, and a little wheather, and the viper will handle like a sack of rice.And by sack of rice you mean, "better than virtually any other car on the market", right?

Top Gear have already proven that the Elise can outhandle a Harrier jump jet, I doubt a Viper would present much of a problem.The Elise isn't in the Viper's league. I'd be surprised if it could take a C5 Z06.

finally_retired, even if the Viper was riding on buggy springs and solid axles front and rear (which it isn't. It actually makes use of one very refined track-oriented double wishbone suspension, front and rear) it'd still outhandle the Elise on track due to one simple reason.

Viper tires - 275/35ZR18 front, 345/30ZR19 rear.
Elise tires - 175/55R16 front, 225/45R17 rear.

For those of you who can't read sidewallese, that means the Viper's front tires are 10cm wider up front and 12cm wider out back than the Elises, and have a have a 20% front, 15% rear, lower aspect ratio than the Elise (height of the sidewall relative to the width of the tire).

In other words, the Viper has more rubber on the road than the Elise and less sidewall flex.

That's one of the most primitive keys to better handling out there period.

Now, I'm sure you're going to bring up that the Viper weighs 1488lbs more than the Elise and therefore needs the extra tire. Well, this is true, the Viper is 178.6% of the weight of the Elise (by my math).

Now, let's compare tire widths. The Viper has 57% more tire at the front than the Elise, and 53% more tire at the rear. Cumulatively speaking, that's 110% more tire for a car that's only 78% more weight.

Congratulations, Viper wins.

All some extra rubber will do is, all other things being equal (i.e. suspension geometery etc), provide more lateral grip.
It will have very little effect on the cars balance and ablity to change direction (unless its a massive change).

Lotus actualy reduced the tyre width on the production versions of both the S1 and S2 Elise in order to give a little more understeer for road use, for track use they recomend useing 185, or even 195 width tyres on the front. I know very few Elise owners who still run the standard front tyre size.
However, it does little to improve over all grip, useing a wider front tyre instead provides a much more neutral stance in corners, and greatly improves turn in.
And its the Elise's ablity to change direction that will make it the faster car into and around a corner than the Viper. Out of the corner it would probably be a differnt story, and certianly on high speed corners (above 100mph) the Viper would be the much faster car.
Remember like most things on a car suspension design is a compromise. You have to balance lateral grip (stablity) with ablity to change direction (instablity) and ablity to acclerate and brake.
The Elise has its suspension tuned around agility, with the other two running an equal second.
The Viper I think you will find will be tuned more towards lateral grip and accleration, after all putting all that hp to the road would require some careful tuning which will of course sacrifice instablity, or the ablity to quickly change direction.

i've seen this race before... at a NASA event at Phoenix International Raceway and at an SCCA solo2 event.

roadcourse: the viper dominated the elise. both were driven by competant drivers, the viper was a privately owned "race" car, and the elise was a factory tuned track car. both were on R compound tires, both ran in early run groups... and both were completely dominated by a Lotus Super 7.

solo2: um... can't say much here, the viper lost badly.

the cars were made for two different purposes, and though i'd feel safer in the elise on anything technical, the viper is probably capable of more.

the viper makes a better track car, but when it comes down to it, i'd rather have the elise. for if nothing else, weight and scarsity. but it really comes down to this: i don't like feeling like i'm in a tactical warship when i'm driving a sportscar.

And you drive a MR2 (BIAS)

i've seen this race before... at a NASA event at Phoenix International Raceway and at an SCCA solo2 event.

roadcourse: the viper dominated the elise. both were driven by competant drivers, the viper was a privately owned "race" car, and the elise was a factory tuned track car. both were on R compound tires, both ran in early run groups... and both were completely dominated by a Lotus Super 7.

solo2: um... can't say much here, the viper lost badly.

the cars were made for two different purposes, and though i'd feel safer in the elise on anything technical, the viper is probably capable of more.

the viper makes a better track car, but when it comes down to it, i'd rather have the elise. for if nothing else, weight and scarsity. but it really comes down to this: i don't like feeling like i'm in a tactical warship when i'm driving a sportscar.


a quick question(just curious):

Was that an actual original lotus or a caterham. And if it was the new caterham was it the new model(easy to recognise because it switched to pushrod suspension and you cannot see the coilovers on the outside anymore)?

For autox I don't think its easy to declare a superior car just because it matters so much on who set up the course. I bet if one of the ever present vette owners sets up the course the viper might get the upper hand. But considering in average most courses are rather low speed and tight the elise should have the advantage.


And about which car is my favorite is so hard to tell, the elise has the advantage of being super nimble and a supreme joy to drive, but the viper would give you such a rush when you just exit the corner and punch it.

it was a series 3 super 7

c'mon, look who you are talking to, if it was a caterham, i would have said that ;)

and the autoX was a long and sweeping course, favoring the viper.

it was a series 3 super 7

c'mon, look who you are talking to, if it was a caterham, i would have said that ;)

and the autoX was a long and sweeping course, favoring the viper.


dang those are very rare, caterhams are way more common nowadays. Not that they are any worse mind you, if anything caterham has been further improving the design. The newest models are suposed to be way superior too chassis wise and aero.

and about the autox did they check the mojo levels on the viper. Maybe they forgot the refill and it was just running low.

the viper could have been out of mojo... as i did beat it with my rx7 as well...

finally_retired, even if the Viper was riding on buggy springs and solid axles front and rear (which it isn't. It actually makes use of one very refined track-oriented double wishbone suspension, front and rear) it'd still outhandle the Elise on track due to one simple reason.

Viper tires - 275/35ZR18 front, 345/30ZR19 rear.
Elise tires - 175/55R16 front, 225/45R17 rear.

For those of you who can't read sidewallese, that means the Viper's front tires are 10cm wider up front and 12cm wider out back than the Elises, and have a have a 20% front, 15% rear, lower aspect ratio than the Elise (height of the sidewall relative to the width of the tire).

In other words, the Viper has more rubber on the road than the Elise and less sidewall flex.

That's one of the most primitive keys to better handling out there period.

Now, I'm sure you're going to bring up that the Viper weighs 1488lbs more than the Elise and therefore needs the extra tire. Well, this is true, the Viper is 178.6% of the weight of the Elise (by my math).

Now, let's compare tire widths. The Viper has 57% more tire at the front than the Elise, and 53% more tire at the rear. Cumulatively speaking, that's 110% more tire for a car that's only 78% more weight.

Congratulations, Viper wins.

That it total bull. The slimmer the tyre, the less likely it is to hydroplaine. Ok, in a perfect world, with no water on the road, pot holes, etc etc, then more contact is a good thing. Thing is with the viper, there is more weight on the front, due to its front mounted V10, and with little weight over the rear driving wheels, it can make for some smokey spin outs. The elise has little wieght, that is shared over all 4 wheels.

Besides this, handeling is a huge collection of things, not just the rubber on the road. Things such as power deliverd, drive wheels, electronic driver aids and weight distribution will have a detromental effect on a cars handeling. I am 100% confident that the elise can outhandle the Viper. Bring one over to britain, and we could see how the Dodge fares on british roads...

You know, you really don't know how to read a post.

I stated that wider tires with shorter sidewalls are one of the most primitive (i.e. BASIC) ways to improve handling.

As it is a TRACK CAR comparison, I spoke in the sense of what works on track. And I tell you this, I KNOW what works on track.

Also, have you ever taken a look, I mean an honest look, at the way Dodge laid out the Viper's suspension? It's a very marvelous setup. They learned a lot from the ultra-successful Oreca program and applied it to the design of the 2nd gen Viper.

Double wishbone suspension with short control arms mounted direct to the sides of the frame rails on top and nice low slung control arms on bottom mounted more centrally on the crossmember. Adds up to a lot of camber gain in a long sweeper (although it also results in that infamous Viper oversteer once you overstep the boundaries of its grip).

And, by the way, even with the big V-10, the Viper still has 50/50 weight balance and a very low roll center thanks to mounting the engine behind the front axle AND mounting it very low in the chassis. (the crank centerline is about dead on even with the front crossmember). Not to mention we are talking an all-aluminum engine.