2005 Ford Mustang GT vs. 2004 Ford Mustang Mach 1
3000ways
11-12-2004, 10:37 AM
Is it possible, infighting amongst the Ford camp. Yup Ford vs. Ford, a debate has been going on amongst the Ford community about two cars, that to most have much in common, but to the participants of the debate, the two cars are as different as apples and oranges. The two cars I speak of are the 2005 Ford Mustang GT and the 2004 Ford Mustang Mach 1. The debate that has been ranging on, is on which one is faster, is the new GT superior to the Mach 1? Which is faster, which is better?
2005 Ford Mustang GT
4.6L 8-Cylinder
300HP@6000RPM 315TQ@4500RPM
5-Speed Manual RWD
3510Lbs
vs.
2004 Ford Mustang Mach 1
4.6L 8-Cylinder
305HP@5800RPM 320TQ@4200RPM
5-Speed Manual RWD
3470Lbs
2005 Ford Mustang GT
4.6L 8-Cylinder
300HP@6000RPM 315TQ@4500RPM
5-Speed Manual RWD
3510Lbs
vs.
2004 Ford Mustang Mach 1
4.6L 8-Cylinder
305HP@5800RPM 320TQ@4200RPM
5-Speed Manual RWD
3470Lbs
M3FordBoy
11-12-2004, 12:02 PM
I would go with the Mach 1 It's lighter has a little more TQ and HP and hits it both at lower RPM. It would be close though.
k3smostwanted
11-12-2004, 12:08 PM
well, looking at the numbers alone that you posted. i would think that the 04 mach 1 would edge the 05 out by a small fraction.
reasons: the only thing that the 05 gots over the 04 is that it revs 200RPMS higher. but on the other hand the 04 mach 1 gets its 320TQ (which is 5lbs higher than the 05) 300RPMS quicker than the 05. the 04 also has more HP. i think it would definitely be a close enough race to come down to the driver, according to the numbers you posted.
but there alot of other factors besides these numbers that will depend on the race. torque curve, hp curve, tires, suspension, aerodynamics (when i look at the 05 the front is pretty square making it not have as good as aerdynamics as the 04, but that just from looking at the 2), etc.
reasons: the only thing that the 05 gots over the 04 is that it revs 200RPMS higher. but on the other hand the 04 mach 1 gets its 320TQ (which is 5lbs higher than the 05) 300RPMS quicker than the 05. the 04 also has more HP. i think it would definitely be a close enough race to come down to the driver, according to the numbers you posted.
but there alot of other factors besides these numbers that will depend on the race. torque curve, hp curve, tires, suspension, aerodynamics (when i look at the 05 the front is pretty square making it not have as good as aerdynamics as the 04, but that just from looking at the 2), etc.
kman10587
11-12-2004, 12:27 PM
The 2005 has a significantly better chassis, suspension, and transmission. The Mach 1 may edge it out in a drag race, but I believe the 2005 Mustang GT is the better overall performer.
GTStang
11-12-2004, 01:22 PM
The 2005 has a significantly better chassis, suspension, and transmission. The Mach 1 may edge it out in a drag race, but I believe the 2005 Mustang GT is the better overall performer.
I'm with kman as far as the 05 GT is superior car to the 04 MACH1 in every single way besides the 1/4 mile which at this time I can not confirm or deny is true.
Once I see 05 GT at the 1/4 mile tack and times posted by the stick guys this will be decided. I think the MACH1 might edge it out a bit at the 1/4 mile but only a bit and the 05GT is so much better in every other area... I'd rather have the 05GT.
I'm with kman as far as the 05 GT is superior car to the 04 MACH1 in every single way besides the 1/4 mile which at this time I can not confirm or deny is true.
Once I see 05 GT at the 1/4 mile tack and times posted by the stick guys this will be decided. I think the MACH1 might edge it out a bit at the 1/4 mile but only a bit and the 05GT is so much better in every other area... I'd rather have the 05GT.
syr74
11-16-2004, 01:16 PM
Is it possible, infighting amongst the Ford camp. Yup Ford vs. Ford, a debate has been going on amongst the Ford community about two cars, that to most have much in common, but to the participants of the debate, the two cars are as different as apples and oranges. The two cars I speak of are the 2005 Ford Mustang GT and the 2004 Ford Mustang Mach 1. The debate that has been ranging on, is on which one is faster, is the new GT superior to the Mach 1? Which is faster, which is better?
2005 Ford Mustang GT
4.6L 8-Cylinder
300HP@6000RPM 315TQ@4500RPM
5-Speed Manual RWD
3510Lbs
vs.
2004 Ford Mustang Mach 1
4.6L 8-Cylinder
305HP@5800RPM 320TQ@4200RPM
5-Speed Manual RWD
3470Lbs
I am not certain that I would refer to what is happening on most boards, in most clubs, or between most enthusiasts as infighting. More often than not it comes accross as something more like a sibling rivalry.
As for which one might actually be faster, that is a good question. As you can see above weight is very similar, as is rated power. However, what is not mentioned is that gearing is identical, in both the tranny and the diff., which when added to the above makes the "race" an even closer one. (I am referring to manual-tranny cars here)
And, to make it even better, the 05 GT would appear to be about as under-rated as the 04 Mach-1 is judging from rwhp garnered on dyno's thus far. And, if anything, the slight hp/tq advantage Ford grants the Mach-1 with it's rating actually diminishes slightly on the dyno. In the real world these two motors have peak power numbers that are pretty much identical.
What peak numbers do not show you is that these two motors make that power in very different ways. The 05 GT is a little bit torquier than the 04 Mach-1 down low, just the opposite of what the above "rated" power figures would lead you to believe. And, as you would normally think with a DOHC head, the Mach-1 does appear to have more hp in the upper rpm range when strapped down and turning the rollers.
The Mach-1 was surprisingly torquey for a DOHC headed car, and certainly overcame the old n/a Cobra's problems with low end grunt. But, it is still hard-pressed to muster the grunt of a 3-valve SOHC. And likewise, while the 3-valve winds up much, much better than the old 2-valve GT did, (actually feeling more like the old DOHC than the old SOHC!!) it still does not have the dna to want to run to redline quite as readily as the Mach-1 did.
I find it ironic that rated hp/tq numbers alone, and the rpm's which they are cited at, would lead you to believe just the opposite of this. IMHO this came from what was most likely a desire by Ford to not "peeve-off" the Mach-1 crowd by having the 05 Mustang GT rated at more power than their car, while not handicapping the 05 pony's rating too much.
That said it may take us a while to know just how fast the 05 GT really is. So far the fastest numbers that I have heard, and are in any way reputable, are 13.6 and 13.8 out of an auto and stick respectively. (That's right, the fastest auto-time so far is faster than the best 5-speed time.....it wont stay that way long) And, those numbers come from Motor Trend and Car and Driver, as no private owner I am aware of has yet gone faster.
Do keep in mind that it took a long time to see Mach-1's regularly running deep in the 13's. And, when first released magazine testing could not get one out of the very high 13's for anything. Last test M/T did netted a 13.2 second 1/4-mile from an 04 Mach-1, and private owners have gone as fast as 13.1XX or even 13.0XX. There is little boubt the new pony is capable of mid/low 13's with the 5-speed and a good driver. The question is, can it go faster than 13.2.
As an aside, the auto tranny Mach-1 will almost certainly get be-headed by an 05 GT auto. The 05's 5-speed essentially takes the Mach-1's 4-speed gearing and adds one more "lower" gear creating a new first gear. First gear in the auto is no waaay lower than in the manual. Not too hard to figure that one out.
It is also worth mentioning that the 05 GT uses the same basic tranny in manual trim the Mach did. (TR3550) However, the shifer and internals relating to shift quality have supposedly been much improved which will likely make it easier to get good times.
My guess in a 1/4 mile matchup is that the 05 Mustang GT may occasionally hit 13.2's the same way the Mach-1 occasionally hits 13.0's in manual trim. It will be very, very close all else being equal, but I think the Mach-1 takes it due to the gearing just slightly favoring the Mach-1's high-end nature. Look for an 05 GT to put maybe half a car on the 04 Mach-1 in the beginning, but for the Mach to make it up and just a bit more by the end of the track. With auto cars it will be Little Big-Horn and the Mach gets to be Custer.
As for handling, the new 05 GT took the live axle to places most folks, including me, did not think were possible. In the twisties the Mach-1 does not stand a chance. And, if it were not for the major power advantage the 03/04 Cobra possesses even it would be hard-pressed to do anything with the new GT itself! Skidpad numbers are just unreal, and the slalom ain't too shabby either.
The 05 GT is by far the better car, and likely faster in every way except a straight line. And, as I said above, that will most likely be ridiculously close.
2005 Ford Mustang GT
4.6L 8-Cylinder
300HP@6000RPM 315TQ@4500RPM
5-Speed Manual RWD
3510Lbs
vs.
2004 Ford Mustang Mach 1
4.6L 8-Cylinder
305HP@5800RPM 320TQ@4200RPM
5-Speed Manual RWD
3470Lbs
I am not certain that I would refer to what is happening on most boards, in most clubs, or between most enthusiasts as infighting. More often than not it comes accross as something more like a sibling rivalry.
As for which one might actually be faster, that is a good question. As you can see above weight is very similar, as is rated power. However, what is not mentioned is that gearing is identical, in both the tranny and the diff., which when added to the above makes the "race" an even closer one. (I am referring to manual-tranny cars here)
And, to make it even better, the 05 GT would appear to be about as under-rated as the 04 Mach-1 is judging from rwhp garnered on dyno's thus far. And, if anything, the slight hp/tq advantage Ford grants the Mach-1 with it's rating actually diminishes slightly on the dyno. In the real world these two motors have peak power numbers that are pretty much identical.
What peak numbers do not show you is that these two motors make that power in very different ways. The 05 GT is a little bit torquier than the 04 Mach-1 down low, just the opposite of what the above "rated" power figures would lead you to believe. And, as you would normally think with a DOHC head, the Mach-1 does appear to have more hp in the upper rpm range when strapped down and turning the rollers.
The Mach-1 was surprisingly torquey for a DOHC headed car, and certainly overcame the old n/a Cobra's problems with low end grunt. But, it is still hard-pressed to muster the grunt of a 3-valve SOHC. And likewise, while the 3-valve winds up much, much better than the old 2-valve GT did, (actually feeling more like the old DOHC than the old SOHC!!) it still does not have the dna to want to run to redline quite as readily as the Mach-1 did.
I find it ironic that rated hp/tq numbers alone, and the rpm's which they are cited at, would lead you to believe just the opposite of this. IMHO this came from what was most likely a desire by Ford to not "peeve-off" the Mach-1 crowd by having the 05 Mustang GT rated at more power than their car, while not handicapping the 05 pony's rating too much.
That said it may take us a while to know just how fast the 05 GT really is. So far the fastest numbers that I have heard, and are in any way reputable, are 13.6 and 13.8 out of an auto and stick respectively. (That's right, the fastest auto-time so far is faster than the best 5-speed time.....it wont stay that way long) And, those numbers come from Motor Trend and Car and Driver, as no private owner I am aware of has yet gone faster.
Do keep in mind that it took a long time to see Mach-1's regularly running deep in the 13's. And, when first released magazine testing could not get one out of the very high 13's for anything. Last test M/T did netted a 13.2 second 1/4-mile from an 04 Mach-1, and private owners have gone as fast as 13.1XX or even 13.0XX. There is little boubt the new pony is capable of mid/low 13's with the 5-speed and a good driver. The question is, can it go faster than 13.2.
As an aside, the auto tranny Mach-1 will almost certainly get be-headed by an 05 GT auto. The 05's 5-speed essentially takes the Mach-1's 4-speed gearing and adds one more "lower" gear creating a new first gear. First gear in the auto is no waaay lower than in the manual. Not too hard to figure that one out.
It is also worth mentioning that the 05 GT uses the same basic tranny in manual trim the Mach did. (TR3550) However, the shifer and internals relating to shift quality have supposedly been much improved which will likely make it easier to get good times.
My guess in a 1/4 mile matchup is that the 05 Mustang GT may occasionally hit 13.2's the same way the Mach-1 occasionally hits 13.0's in manual trim. It will be very, very close all else being equal, but I think the Mach-1 takes it due to the gearing just slightly favoring the Mach-1's high-end nature. Look for an 05 GT to put maybe half a car on the 04 Mach-1 in the beginning, but for the Mach to make it up and just a bit more by the end of the track. With auto cars it will be Little Big-Horn and the Mach gets to be Custer.
As for handling, the new 05 GT took the live axle to places most folks, including me, did not think were possible. In the twisties the Mach-1 does not stand a chance. And, if it were not for the major power advantage the 03/04 Cobra possesses even it would be hard-pressed to do anything with the new GT itself! Skidpad numbers are just unreal, and the slalom ain't too shabby either.
The 05 GT is by far the better car, and likely faster in every way except a straight line. And, as I said above, that will most likely be ridiculously close.
S2CorollaR
11-17-2004, 01:59 AM
Syr74, you're my hero. I read every word of that post.
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