British royalty vs. Italian Stallion

Here is a tough one:

Aston Martin V12 Vanquish S vs. Lamborghini Murcielago. Tell me what you guys think regarding the performance, quality, image and etc....
I would probably opt for the Aston if I had to pick one...

Murcielago. Much cooler-looking, more performance-oriented demeanor.

Also, keep in mind that Ferrari = stallion; Lamborghini = bull.

Well normally I would say Italian but ze germans have audified Lambo a bit much so my vote goes to the Vanquish.

If the Gallardo would've been considered my vote could be different although it too has some audified driving dynamics.


PS.Kman is correct about the bull and the stallion comment.

Murcielago. Much cooler-looking, more performance-oriented demeanor.

Also, keep in mind that Ferrari = stallion; Lamborghini = bull.

About the Stallion thing, you're right. I thought it would sound fancy. SORRY!

Make a comparison between the 612 Scaglietti and the Vanquish; problem solved. :)

who cares about the italians.
the more important question should be Vanquish S or DB9?

who cares about the italians.




:angryfire :swear: :comprage1 :banhim:

....what i meant was.......
first you gotta decide which of the astons is a better comparison......

....what i meant was.......
first you gotta decide which of the astons is a better comparison......

Which one? :swear: :swear: Who cares!!!!...Its an Aston Martin! Its late, and I figured I would add on to your torment and make you feel that much better about yourself hehe. :smile:

....what i meant was.......
first you gotta decide which of the astons is a better comparison......


I know i was just giving you a hard time. :smile:

...and you wonder about the rising suicide rates......

Aston Martin Vanquish V-12 S has a modifyed V-12...HP rises from a pitiful 460HP to a much more respectable 520HP....I believe it goes 0-60 arouund 4.1-4.5s....The Murci goes 0-60 in 3.9-4.0s

HP rises from a pitiful 460HP to a much more respectable 520HP....

How the hell is 460 HP pitiful? And how is an additional 60 HP so much more respectable?

The Aston is a classically styled front engine GT, on par with the Ferrari 575M Maranello (well, not exactly on par. The Ferrari outperforms the Aston in just about every category and can be had with a traditional manual transmission as well as the gimmicky paddle shift box). As an MR exotic the Lamborghini is really quite far removed from the comparison.

In reality, the only car being built in Britain that really sits in the same genre as the Murciealago is the Ascari KZ-1.

http://www.fast-autos.net/ascari/kz118.jpg

Also, Noble is planning to enter this price and luxury as well as performance market with the proposed M14.

http://www.fast-autos.net/noble/m14.jpg

However, the British sports car makers are at their best when building small roadsters and coupes with rabid torque and power and brutish styling. Cars that slice into wussified sportsters like the Porsche 911 (sorry Porschephiles, but the 911 became weak-sauce after the 993 generation) with glorious aplomb.

Cars like the....

http://www.fast-autos.net/noble/m12gtothree5.jpg
Noble M12 GTO

http://www.fast-autos.net/mg/xpowersvr.jpg
MG X-power SV-R

http://www.fast-autos.net/tvr/sagaris4.jpg
TVR Sagaris

http://www.fast-autos.net/ultima/ugtr14.jpg
Ultima GTR

http://www.fast-autos.net/morgan/04aero8.jpg
Morgan Aero 8

Pretty stout list, actually.

To add another one to Layla's list:

Farboud GT
http://www.farboud.com/downloads/EVO_58X9_pop.jpg

Vanquish S vs. Murcielago?

Easy. I'd take the Lamborghini. No, it doesnt have the elegance or looks of the Vanq, but it doesn't break down every 5 minutes, or have a shitty paddle gearbox so the choice is actually pretty easy for me.


And Layla, some of those cars you list
1) aren't 911 competitors, or
2) aren't all that. I mean, the MG X-Power? :grinno: :p

0-60 in 5.3seconds for the base model SV and 4.7 for the SV-R. That's Porsche hunting territory. :slap:

Safety Fast, muthafugga. Catch the Octagon Spirit. :smokin:

0-60 in 5.3seconds for the base model SV and 4.7 for the SV-R. That's Porsche hunting territory. :slap:

Safety Fast, muthafugga. Catch the Octagon Spirit. :smokin:
Being a ferrari fan i know you're not a straight line nut, so i'll just say that the SV didnt exactly get sparkling reviews :p

Well yeah, it's cramped, noisy, and a pain to drive at its limit. Just like real Porsches used to be and just like real Ferraris are.

You take the bite out of a sports car, all you're left with is a fast road car.

There's a difference between "challenging to drive" and "not very good", which is the category the MG SV usually falls under.

As for current 911's, sure, theyre softer than they used to be, but still not easy to drive on the limit.
Martin Brundle found the latest 911 - 997 - hard work at high speed (this month's CAR). At its price point (and well beyond), i believe the 911 is the ultimate performance vehicle. Entertaining, involving, and rewarding as very few others are.

You talk about Ferrari's like they haven't changed over the years, or the 575 didn't happen, or thr 360 was perfect, and of Porsche as if the GT3 and RS don't exist. I'm sure you also think Boxsters aren't real Porsche's...

Well, to me the F40 is the last of the pure Ferraris to be built for the street - after all it was the last car Enzo Ferrari personally gave his approval to.

The 550 Maranello, now 575M, is the best thing Ferrari has done in the years since Il Commendatore died (on the road). Putting a big V12 up front to replace the flat 12 Testarossa aberrations was brilliance defined. The Maranellos are the modern day 365GTB Daytona, and even have a class win at Le Mans to go with their instant classic status.

The 360 Modena was an F355 with a new chassis, which was a redux of the 348TB, which in turn was an outgrowth of the 328GTB, which was a revision to the 308GTB, which was a restyle of the 308 GT/4 "Dino".

As any Tifosi will tell you without hesitation (and with quite a bit of odd pride) the V8 Ferraris have never completely changed, one generation to the next, and have only evolved, even though the evolution has taken us from this.

http://ferrariworld.com/images/ferrari/world/cars/ieri/stradali/73308GT4r_558x372.jpg

to this

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/large/2063-1.jpg

The Boxster is the Porsche Miata, and is a car whose ability to post good stats I respect, but instills no passion nor interest to me. Yes, it's a good handling and quick little car, but that's all. Again, no bite, no fire, no electricity.

As far as the GT3, RS, and the infamous GT2 models of the 996 are concerned. They were good cars that put more emphasis on the driver. Spartan, aggressive, and damned good.

My favorite 911's are the 935's, 911RSR IROC's, and the 930's. Cars that made the driver respect and fear their abilities. Engineers that create crap like "PSM" and "Tiptronic" should have to drive a 930 in the rain to be reminded what a real Porsche is like.

Engineers that create crap like "PSM" and "Tiptronic" should have to drive a 930 in the rain to be reminded what a real Porsche is like.
They couldn't possibly have forgotten what a 'real Porsche' is, if they've created the two Gt3's, the Rs, and the CGT.

PSM and Tiptronic are just a reflection of the changing dynamics of the supercar market, even Ferarri has traction and stability control systems, as well as auto transmissions. As long as you can switch it off, it doesn't bother me.

As much as I would like to own a Lambo, I would take the Aston in this instance, for the main reason that I would feel more comfortable driving it, and being seen in it.

As with all Astons, the luxury and quality of the driver surroundings are as important as the performance, timeless looks, and handeling. I would ask you to imagin yourself stuck in a traffic jam in the middle of a city, with pedestrians walking past and cars on either side of you...

...which car would you rather be driving then? For me, the Lambo, while being a good hyper car is a little wild, especially in the looks department. Where the Aston is a little more reserved. Both are capable and will eat anything that a normal A-road will throw at them, the aston just takes a more sophisticated high road than the italien.

Ok upon seeing both the Top Gear and 5Th Gear episodes on the Vanquish S I was so disapointed in it, I quite literally took my vote for it and gave it to the Murcielago.

My original reasoning was that I did not like the audification of the Murci and the gorgeous looks of the Aston. However after seeing it break three times on Top Gear and twice on 5TH and the refusal to downchange when Clarkson tried (showing its true automatic slushbox roots - pos wannabe sequential). But what really made me change my vote was is chassis. It was just aweful, lurching and bucking all over the track, every bump and corner upseting it and i was literally cringing how bad it understeered at the hamerhead. Maybe Aston shold realise that pogo sticks for suspension combined with curb weights suited for Royal Navy battle ships will not cut it.

Aston needs to realise that making the car equivalent of a vacant brain trophy wife is shameful.


So If aston wants to keep true car enthusiats faithful they need to start offering proper manuals (where is the promised ricardo 6 speed on the DB9?), reduced curb weights and proper suspension setps.

Hopefully the upcoming AMV8 will satisfy those requests.

Ok upon seeing both the Top Gear and 5Th Gear episodes on the Vanquish S I was so disapointed in it, I quite literally took my vote for it and gave it to the Murcielago.

My original reasoning was that I did not like the audification of the Murci and the gorgeous looks of the Aston. However after seeing it break three times on Top Gear and twice on 5TH and the refusal to downchange when Clarkson tried (showing its true automatic slushbox roots - pos wannabe sequential). But what really made me change my vote was is chassis. It was just aweful, lurching and bucking all over the track, every bump and corner upseting it and i was literally cringing how bad it understeered at the hamerhead. Maybe Aston shold realise that pogo sticks for suspension combined with curb weights suited for Royal Navy battle ships will not cut it.

Aston needs to realise that making the car equivalent of a vacant brain trophy wife is shameful.


So If aston wants to keep true car enthusiats faithful they need to start offering proper manuals (where is the promised ricardo 6 speed on the DB9?), reduced curb weights and proper suspension setps.

Hopefully the upcoming AMV8 will satisfy those requests.
Exactly the same reasoning behind my decision. The V8 is going to have to be a huge improvement over the DB9 to remotely threaten the competition (911 S, F430) in terms of driving dynamics. But that's not why people buy Astons...

I did see that episode of 5th Gear, and Top Gear where both said that the Aston was particulaly un-reliable.

I supose I was disapointed, but I would still rather be in an Aston of any sort than a Lambo. Not that I dislike Lambo's at all, I just lova Astons.

Indeed, Aston Martin has been fairly wounded on the sporting end from its association with Ford. They're caught somewhere between wanting to be BMW and wanting to be Ferrari.

Not unlike the woeful Jaguar situation at Ford. The Jaguar people are very quickly running into their budget's brick wall trying to be a luxury sedan maker and still draw upon their Le Mans roots.

It's hurting both makes. Lamborghini doesn't have superior lineage to Aston Martin, not in the least. A disgruntled tractor manufacturer builds supercars to spite Enzo Ferrari, and never even becomes a thorn in Enzo's side.

However, at least Audi is trying to make high-performance exotics under the Lamborghini name as it's supposed to be. Off the top of my head, I can't think of one Aston built under Ford that has the rawness of the classic Vantages.

The DB7 was an excellent first step in revitalizing Aston Martin as a going concern. However, its stablemate - the Vanquish - missed the target (the Maranello).