elise stats

hey quick question, I ran into an elise for the first time today in a parking lot and I have got to say that It was absolutly beautiful. I was hoping to race, but that didn't happen...maybe another time. Anyway, I really don't know much about these cars, I know they have seemingly low-power engines...yet they weigh next to nothing. But other than that, I really don't know what these stats translate to on the road or track. Essentially, how are their 0-60s and 1/4 miles...
I looked on cardomain, and I think it was a 2000.
(I'm running mid 13s now, but will soon be into the 12s) Also I got AWD, so my lanches are great and I usually pull out into the lead pretty early on most races.
So was I looking at a probable win or loss?
Thanks in advance guys

Most likely a loss, since the new Elise does 0-60 in 4.7-4.5 , and 1/4 mile 13.1-12.9. But still, i love My Elise and my "EX" 3000GT, so either way, both great cars.

Car and driver had the elise going from 0-60 in 4.4 and the quarter mile at 13.3 sec.

Quite honestly, wether or not you beat in in a drag race does not mean too much. That's really not the point of the Elise. It's not really designed to excel in that type of race.

Try racing a series 1 Exige! No chance! Or a 340R. They were the more 'Hardcore Elises!' The Federalised Elise lost some of it's wonder to me being from England and seeing elises almost everyday while I was there. I do love the things though and remember back in 96 when I first saw one! a BRG beauty! Not to sound cynical or anything but the Vauxhall VX220 is better and Gm should have brought that here! It's an Elise built by the same guys on the same assy line but has an ecotec in it with the second wave running a turbo! 220hp! Beside Lotus tuned the new series 2 elise for understeer, although you can get oversteer the Series 1 should have scome accross the pond but the federalisation rules quoshed that Hence the Toyota 1.8 VVTi-L motor that is used inthe Celica and MR2 so had already passed the 100,000 mile endurance test that an engine from an import company have to pass to sell the veh here in which no parts, not even belts are allowed to be changed. I do think it was a change for the better over the Rover K-series motor that were 10 year old Honda motors! The power to weight ratio of a euro spec using the Toyota motor surpasses the federalised version although that is still sublime. Even a heavier car with the same power to weight ratio would lose to it as it has less mas to move so will have a higher traction threshold! Besides the Elise was designed for corners! not drag strips! I read an artical where the faced a Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale againt the Elise 111R after the toyota swap. They couldn't separate them on english roads! The Elise was Too nimble! The S2 Exige even more so!!

Hey I forgot I posted this. Well after a few months of parking next to each other, we never met. So the race never happened. I did read up more on them, since I didn't really get a fast reply here, and I'm well aware that their handling is their greatest asset. But it was a hot looking car, and apparently pretty quick and I wanted to run. Even if "that isn't the point of an elise" it still would have been a close race and a good time.

Try racing a series 1 Exige! No chance! Or a 340R. They were the more 'Hardcore Elises!' The Federalised Elise lost some of it's wonder to me being from England and seeing elises almost everyday while I was there. I do love the things though and remember back in 96 when I first saw one! a BRG beauty! Not to sound cynical or anything but the Vauxhall VX220 is better and Gm should have brought that here! It's an Elise built by the same guys on the same assy line but has an ecotec in it with the second wave running a turbo! 220hp! Beside Lotus tuned the new series 2 elise for understeer, although you can get oversteer the Series 1 should have scome accross the pond but the federalisation rules quoshed that Hence the Toyota 1.8 VVTi-L motor that is used inthe Celica and MR2 so had already passed the 100,000 mile endurance test that an engine from an import company have to pass to sell the veh here in which no parts, not even belts are allowed to be changed. I do think it was a change for the better over the Rover K-series motor that were 10 year old Honda motors! The power to weight ratio of a euro spec using the Toyota motor surpasses the federalised version although that is still sublime. Even a heavier car with the same power to weight ratio would lose to it as it has less mas to move so will have a higher traction threshold! Besides the Elise was designed for corners! not drag strips! I read an artical where the faced a Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale againt the Elise 111R after the toyota swap. They couldn't separate them on english roads! The Elise was Too nimble! The S2 Exige even more so!!

Ummm... some nice points, but:

1.- The 340r and the Series 1 are much less hardcore than the Federalized Elise a.k.a. 111R. They have 25% less power, are much slower (both acceleration and top speed), and they achieve much less lateral acceleration at the skidpad.

2.- The Vauxhall VX220 is NOT faster than the Elise, they has been tested numerous time head to head, the Elise beats it around the track, can pull more lateral acceleration, and has much better handling and suspension. The Vauxhall VX220 is of course now discontinued.

3.- The understeer tuning is for regular city driving. If you get the sports package it's a whole different story.

4.- The Federal Elise has the same power to weight ratio as the "Euro Spec" 111R, the only difference is over there you can decide to not get the airbags+abs, in which case you'd be correct.

Ummm... some nice points, but:

1.- The 340r and the Series 1 are much less hardcore than the Federalized Elise a.k.a. 111R. They have 25% less power, are much slower (both acceleration and top speed), and they achieve much less lateral acceleration at the skidpad.

2.- The Vauxhall VX220 is NOT faster than the Elise, they has been tested numerous time head to head, the Elise beats it around the track, can pull more lateral acceleration, and has much better handling and suspension. The Vauxhall VX220 is of course now discontinued.

3.- The understeer tuning is for regular city driving. If you get the sports package it's a whole different story.

4.- The Federal Elise has the same power to weight ratio as the "Euro Spec" 111R, the only difference is over there you can decide to not get the airbags+abs, in which case you'd be correct.

point 1. HOLY NECROPOSTER!!

2. the Exige is and Elise with a roof, not detachable, they handles better and the Rover K-series Engine was retuned giving 185hp it hard harder suspension and aerodynamic aids, the 340R was an Elise but weighed a crap load less as it has hardly any panels whatsoever.
http://www.plop.ru/site/cars/Lotus%20340R/b.jpg
The toyota motor does make more hp than the rover motor, all of the elise's now have the vvti. Rover doesn't exist and hasn't for over a year now so it woulnd't be building engines, the suspesion of a vxr220 is the same but with slightly different damper rates, it is just a rebodied elise made by the same people in the same factory. the Vx220 was only a 2.2 ecotec for a short time before the vx220 turbo came out and then became the vxr220, 220hp from a turbo'd 2.0 ecotec, the same motor as the Cobalt SS S/C but turbo not s/c'd it also the exect same as the saab 9-3 aero 2.0l turbo. it was a lot faster the original vx only had 140hp but the turbo was a completely different story. The understeer was actually because a lot of people lost control of series 1 elises as the used to snap into oversteer, the understeer was introduced so that on the limit it makes you back off, result = less accidents. u/steer for city driving make no sense! you are tlaking about a car developed firstly for use in ENGLAND, a country i know exteremely well as i am english and they are made for the winding country roads, not for driving to work! I have seen a Lotus Engineer explaining the u/steer on TOP GEAR the english show and he showed how to push it into oversteer.

Um, I know England very well too, and I have been to the Lotus factory to witness the building of Elise, Exige, and VX alike. We all know what the Exige is, and what the 340R is. I have an Elise myself. Why do you keep explaining what they are?

I repeat, the S1 Exige and the 340R are not more hardcore than the Federal Elise. They have less power, less acceleration, less top speed, and less lateral grip.

I know Rover doesn't exist. I know the VX and VXR 220 share the Elise's chassis and are made by Lotus for GM. Why do you keep quoting things we already know? The Federal Elise is quicker around a track and better handling than the VX220 and the VX220 Turbo. Go watch some Fifth Gear, and read some Autocar and Evo for the comparos. Elise comes out the winner everytime in both track laps and handling/grip tests.

The VXR is a one off for promotional purposes of the VXR line. Only 60 were made. If you want to compare that to a Lotus then you pick the 240R Exige, which will spank the VXR and its cast-iron block.

The understeer was introduced so people could drive the car hard and not kill themselves, since this is a daily driver for most people, YES, TONS OF PEOPLE DRIVE IT TO WORK DAILY, ON THE STREET, IN ENGLAND. Hence my "on the street" comment.

For the track, there's the SPORTS PACKAGE, which is NOT understeer biased. Go watch your little Top-Gear show, the exact episode you mentioned, and LISTEN UP when Gavin Kershaw (that's his name BTW), principal vehicle dynamics engineer for Lotus, tells Jeremy that TO ELIMINATE THE UNDERSTEER BIAS, they offer wider tires, i.e. the SPORTS PACKAGE.

It has nothing to do with ENGLAND or windy roads. Stop blabbering nonsense.

Anyway, I'm glad you like the cars. They're awesome. :D

point 1. HOLY NECROPOSTER!!

2. the Exige is and Elise with a roof, not detachable, they handles better and the Rover K-series Engine was retuned giving 185hp it hard harder suspension and aerodynamic aids, the 340R was an Elise but weighed a crap load less as it has hardly any panels whatsoever.
http://www.plop.ru/site/cars/Lotus%20340R/b.jpg
The toyota motor does make more hp than the rover motor, all of the elise's now have the vvti. Rover doesn't exist and hasn't for over a year now so it woulnd't be building engines, the suspesion of a vxr220 is the same but with slightly different damper rates, it is just a rebodied elise made by the same people in the same factory. the Vx220 was only a 2.2 ecotec for a short time before the vx220 turbo came out and then became the vxr220, 220hp from a turbo'd 2.0 ecotec, the same motor as the Cobalt SS S/C but turbo not s/c'd it also the exect same as the saab 9-3 aero 2.0l turbo. it was a lot faster the original vx only had 140hp but the turbo was a completely different story. The understeer was actually because a lot of people lost control of series 1 elises as the used to snap into oversteer, the understeer was introduced so that on the limit it makes you back off, result = less accidents. u/steer for city driving make no sense! you are tlaking about a car developed firstly for use in ENGLAND, a country i know exteremely well as i am english and they are made for the winding country roads, not for driving to work! I have seen a Lotus Engineer explaining the u/steer on TOP GEAR the english show and he showed how to push it into oversteer.

OK this needs to become a little more positive.

I am not blabbering nonsense, you are aggreeing so how can it be nonsense?

If you look back accross most peoples which is faster speak they refer to stright line accelleration, the VX220 turbo is faster in this respect, it weighs a little more but has a good amount more power, I know the 240R is faster still, It does after all have the TRD supercharger on the VVTi. I'm not trying to argue with you, in fact I think we've been reading eachothers posts a little wrong, it seemed like you were saying before that the VX was just a cpy of the Elise. However I do fail to believe the reason for the understeer in the S2 being so people can commute in it I think it was even Gavin Kershwaw that said they introduce u/steer to make it safer. The series 1 Exige had about 180hp had the VHPD (Very High Performance Derivative) rover K-series engine and 0-60 took 4.7 seconds, that's 0.2 seconds faster than the 111R a.k.a federalised car.

When i say hardcore the Exige obviously is with a good amount more power, the rear wing that produces 80kg of downforce at 100mph, a stiffer suspension set-up and stickier r-compound tires. Not to mention the added rigidity of the roof. The 340R is more hardcore becaue it has a bar for a door, no roof and very little in the way of bodywork and hence weighs about as much as the engine and 4 wheels.(56kg less then the S1 Elise which is about 115-125lbs and every little helps) and it had the same VHPD motor too and as a result blasted 0-60 in 4.5 seconds! and I am not in any way making any of this up.

"In 1997, Lotus displayed the Very High Performance Derivative (VHPD) version of the K series engine. This engine featured a modified cylinder head with solid valve lifters which allowed an 8000 rpm limit, carbon fiber air box, oil cooler, and lightweight exhaust. This version produced 190 ps."

The VHPD was the same as used in the Catheram 7 at times, although they are now usuing Cosworth motors and Hayabusa's. as for lateral G's I have no data but I know they were both a hell of a lot more superb than the S1 Elise with higher suspension rates, stickier tires and downforce.

Also did you ever hear of the most insane Exige that ever came out of the factory, was built for an Arabian (I think) oil tycoon and was fitted with a turbo'd V6 from a Vauxhall Vectra. I'm going to try and find some details on it.

here it is!!!
http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/experience/competition/sportexige/sportexige.html
f'in amazing

All I'm saying is the Federal Elise/111R is a much better car than the VX220 Turbo in most respects. Lateral grip, time around a track, handling, etc. And even straight line acceleration when you include the sports package with the stickier tires.

About the understeer, you keep saying they added it to make it safer. Why do you think they want to make it safer? So people don't kill themselves on the street. We're saying the same thing. For the track, they make a specific sport package that's not understeer biased, because on the track safety is not such as big a concern as on the street. So we're just saying the same thing.

The Federal/111R 0-60 is not 4.9 seconds. With the sports package, it's 4.7, which is the official number from Lotus, but if you were to read tests done by most car magazines, they've achieved 0-60 times in the 4.4 second range. That's MUCH faster than a VX 220 Turbo, and a S1 Exige. I can give you the names if you want, there are lots. The first one that comes to mind is Car & Driver, but there are many others.

The Elise also has r-compound tires in the sports package, and a stiffer suspension set-up. Have you not read the specs? It's a much better car than the S1 Exige. If by hardcore you mean "raw and uncomfortable", then I guess you're right, the 340R is more "hardcore", but it's not better. Like I said, 0-60 in the Federal Elise according to most independent tests is 4.4 seconds, and that's not even with the air-con+airbag+abs delete option! Plus it has better handling (340R skidpad: .96 g's, Federal Elise: 1.06g's), and it a greater all-aroud car. And what's the top speed for the 340R? Like 130 mph? That's Honda Civic territory! :-)

All I'm saying is this is the best Elise ever. And everyone seems to agree with me, including Jeremy and all the big car mags. Did you know it has two oil coolers, and redline is around 8350 RPM?

The Lotus/Catheram 7 is nice, but it's more a go-kart than a car. I couldn't imagine commuting in it daily. "More superb" than the Elise is very subjective. I don't see any car mags comparing high-end cars to Catherams. Yet just this month I've read three reviews (Ferrari F430, Buggati Veyron, Ford GT) on different magazines (including Evo and Top Gear) that compare these cars to the Lotus Elise, saying how they handle almost as well, or feel almost as connected to the pavement. The Catheram is more of a toy, like Radicals and Go-Karts. I don't know that they have stickier tires, higher suspension rates, and more downforce than the Elise. They're just extremely lightweight since it's basically an open wheel open cabin go-kart with a big engine. Still, even then, the Elise has better handling and lateral grip, at 1.06 g, vs. the Caterham's 0.96 g. Even the ultralight carbon fiber Catheram Seven comes in at 1.02 g. The new Elise is just unbelievably amazing! That's what I call a superb, perfectly balanced car.

Yeah, I know all about the Motorsport Exige. It's a thing of beauty!!!

The Federal Elise/111R may have all the stats you say it has and might be
better than the VX220 turbo and the 340R?....but the fact of the matter is
your elise is an S2 and they just don't live up to the charm, looks and handling enjoyment of an S1 Lotus Elise. Styling of the S2 was bit of a disapointment too compared with the S1 - yes they felt they had to restyle/update the body looks and move the model onwards, but they didn't quite get the front profile right (looks more like a Japanese sports car celica/MR2 ish) although they did do better with the backend (obvious where they took their inspiration from).

For pure drivability, fun (lateral or otherwise) and most impressive all round package it's got to be theS1 Elise!

The Federal Elise/111R may have all the stats you say it has and might be
better than the VX220 turbo and the 340R?....but the fact of the matter is
your elise is an S2 and they just don't live up to the charm, looks and handling enjoyment of an S1 Lotus Elise. Styling of the S2 was bit of a disapointment too compared with the S1 - yes they felt they had to restyle/update the body looks and move the model onwards, but they didn't quite get the front profile right (looks more like a Japanese sports car celica/MR2 ish) although they did do better with the backend (obvious where they took their inspiration from).

For pure drivability, fun (lateral or otherwise) and most impressive all round package it's got to be theS1 Elise!

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about, since the entire automotive community disagrees with you. From Jeremy clarkson to Road & Track, Car & Driver, CAR, Evo, Motortrend, Sports Car International, to just looking at the stats alone, everyone agrees the 111R is the best Elise ever. Not only does it accelerate much faster and has a much higher top end, it also corners at 1.06g's, which is as we all know, race car territory, and IT'S WHERE THE FUN IS. The S1 Elise doesn't even come close!!!, not to mention it's ugly (looks more like a dune buggy than a sports car to me) and it doesn't have all the nice features newer Elises have like dual oil coolers, a reliable engine and transmission, much, much grippier Yokohama tires, better door sill clearance for passengers, and many, many more features. I'll take my 111R any day of the week by far. I love it and I think it's looks are extraordinary. So do all the people on the street that keep coming up and striking up conversations about the car everywhere I go.

Driveability? Check!
Handling? Check!
Looks? Check! (Although this one, I agree, is in the eyes of the beholder. EVERYONE seems to love the new one though, except for you.)
Features and options? Check!
Creature conforts? Check!
Better breaking distance? Check!
Acceleration? Check!
Top speed? Check!
Transmission (5 vs 6 gears)? Check!
Reliability? Let's see... Toyota vs. dead Rover... Check!
Tires & grip? Check!
25% more power, plus better power to weight ratio? Check!
Better soft top mechanism and no leaks? Check!
Better suspension, ride, and handling? Check!
Much more fun and better all around? Check!

You're just obviously, totally, utterly, clueless.

Two words: NO BRAINER.

http://rodrigolopez.com/~rod/cmp.JPG

irod? what crawled up your ass and died? Yuo got csome problems, losing it so easily when anyone says the slightest little thing negative about the S2 elise, and F.Y.I my favourite of the Elise based cars was the S1 Exige with the V.H.P.D motor. You seem to hav eanger management problems, I did give up contesting what you had to say because it's clear that there's only one point of view you value which is your own. Always cutting up S1's when if you think about the S2 wouldn't exist without it. Before you said that the Catherham 7 was crap, but without the Lotus 7 on which it is based, Catherham buying the right off of Colin Chapman, the Elise probably wouldn't exist as without the 7 Lotus would have gone bacnkrupt as they so nearly did. The 7 is uncomfortable because Chapman didn't care about driver comfort, he cared about winning and that's just what he did. The S1 Elise was a quick car that was brought out to stop Lotus going bankrupt. The Esprit was their only car and was so old that the sales where apalling and they were losing money daily. The Rover K-series engine was the perfect fit at the time as it was easily obtainable in large numbers. The initial reason Louts used the Toyota lump was because it was an engine made available to them that had passed the B.S. federalisation laws owing to the fact that most Americans don't even know what a dipstick is let alone how to check the oil. So an Engine has to go 100,000 miles without blowing up under some stupid regulations. The 8mph bumpers are for rubbish American drivers that are likely to hit your car pulling into a parking spot, or at a stop light. Reliability and comfort shouldn't be part of a sports car, the more comfortable and reliable a car get the more comprimised it gets. Comprimise doesn't = as fast as it could be. I do like the S2 Elise and think it's a great car but there are plenty of other cars I'd rather own. After all driving a car that is made to go around corners prefectly may be fast but fun? I've driven plenty of cars in plenty of places and fun can come in many shapes and forms, Lift-off oversteer in a Cavalier, going around a roundabout on 3 wheels in a Fiat Cinquecento, Driving thru the Cuban Country side in a Suzuki Vitara or just playing hooligan in a classic Mini Clubman 1275GT. A lot of people could find immense amounts to fault all of the above on many things but you know what, each and every one of those vehicles has a huge place in my heart as one of the best moments of my life. The Car doesn't make the man, the man makes the car. Give me anything with 4 wheels, even 3 wheels and I'll find countless ways to have immeasurable amounts of fun in it. That's what it's all about not sitting there saying "My car can pull one piont zero six gee's in lateral grip" that makes you sound like a nerd. But "Holy crap did you see how sideways I was and how close I came to hitting that tree?" that is what makes me feel a live, not a bunch of numbers on a page taken in test conditions. The Elise is a great car form a great manufacturer but have you ever put spacesaver spares on the back of a fwd car and ripped it around? That could be a $500 car with some scrap wheels on it and that really will put a huge smile on your face!

LOL, I didn't "lose it" I just thought that comment was ridiculous. Anger management problems? Let's see who has the anger management problems:

Americans don't even know what a dipstick is let alone how to check the oil. So an Engine has to go 100,000 miles without blowing up under some stupid regulations. The 8mph bumpers are for rubbish American drivers that are likely to hit your car pulling into a parking spot, or at a stop light.

I'm sorry my friend but you're also a BIGGOT. You have much worse things to worry about than some forum posting or anger management. And I'm not American, in case you thought I'd be offended by that.

Always cutting up S1's when if you think about the S2 wouldn't exist without it. Before you said that the Catherham 7 was crap

I never said such things. Those are some GREAT cars and I love them. Are you kidding? I just said the S2 is way better than the S1, and that the Catheram wasn't a good compromise for a regularly driven car. You're not only a biggot, but also a liar. Oh my... Who's got the problems here?

F.Y.I my favourite of the Elise based cars was the S1 Exige with the V.H.P.D motor.

Good for you, I'm sure you have your reasons, and it's a great car, aside from it's fuel consumption and reliability problems. But I doubt you've even driven the new Elise/Exige derivatives, since you live in Canada and they don't have them there. Of course, now you'll probably say you have.

The initial reason Louts used the Toyota lump was because it was an engine made available to them that had passed the B.S. federalisation laws

If that were the only reason, they would have gone with a GM engine. They already had contracts with GM, and were already building Elise-based GM cars in the factory, remember? But no, they didn't like that engine enough because it's torque band did not match the optimal Elise application they were looking for, so they shopped around until they found the perfect match in the Toyota-Yamaha codeveloped 2ZZ-GE. They liked it so much in fact, that they begged and begged and went back over and over again to Toyota to convince them to let them use it, until they did, and it was a match made in heaven.

Blah, blah blah

Oh please, spare us the history lesson. We all know how it went on and why each car was built the way it was. I never said any of the cars you list were bad, or that they didn't save Lotus. Your comments are just irrelevant.

Reliability and comfort shouldn't be part of a sports car, the more comfortable and reliable a car get the more comprimised it gets.

Exactly. I agree. But I also am of the opinion that I'm not going to drive a go-kart with no windshield to work everyday. Or that an Ariel Atom or a Radical is a better sports car than a Carrera GT. In that sense, I think the S2 Elise is the best all around sports car of the ones we've been discussing. There's nothing wrong with having one of the best handling cars in the world that's also quick, reliable, and comfortable enough to drive daily to work, and be able to take detours when coming back home once in a while, just to enjoy the essence of driving.

Comprimise doesn't = as fast as it could be.
It's strange though, because you seem to like all the slower cars (S1 Elise, 340R, etc.) more than the S2, yet now you argue about "as fast as it can be?" It's funny how you contradict yourself! Me? I don't care about "as fast as it could be". I care about the best all around driving experience, with an emphasis on handling and acceleration.

I do like the S2 Elise and think it's a great car but there are plenty of other cars I'd rather own.

That's the stupidest argument I've ever heard. What, you think I'd rather own an Elise than a Zonda or a CCR or an FFX? What a stupid, irrelevant point.

I've driven plenty of cars in plenty of places and fun can come in many shapes and forms.

I agree. But overall, there's hardly any car as fun to drive as the Elise. If you disagree, that's your opinion, but the automotive community in general agrees with me. Grab any single review of the Elise by anyone, or ask someone who's driven one, and there's just no production car that comes close to the overall fun and experience of driving one of these things. Sure, if your definiton of fun is driving an 18-wheeler trough a race-track, or wrapping a minivan around a tree, you might not find the Elise very "fun" in your opinion. Again, irrelevant.

That's what it's all about not sitting there saying "My car can pull one piont zero six gee's in lateral grip" that makes you sound like a nerd.

I'd rather sound like a nerd, than an idiot (and a biggot at that.) It's not all about trashing a $500 POS around for "fun". Some of us actually care about car performance, dynamics, tuning, and performance driving. To you, all the people creating these cars and displaying such creativity and genious engineering would be just "nerds". That's fine with me.

The Elise is a great car form a great manufacturer but have you ever put spacesaver spares on the back of a fwd car and ripped it around? That could be a $500 car with some scrap wheels on it and that really will put a huge smile on your face!

Yes, I have, and it's lots of fun. But hardly as much as driving my Elise trough the twisties. That's something that puts a smile upon my face every single day of the week on the way to work and back, and I appreciate that in a very big way.

You really need to re-read every post you have made in this thread and then say that they don't all read as "I know best" every word, every line. You posted in a thread that was completely dead just to disagree with a post i made in December 2004!!! You can call me a biggot, fact is that out of every person I have met from the U.S, I have only liked a very small percentage of them! I however find that the ratio of likeable to dislikeable Canadians is the exact opposite. It's not just me either. Just about every european motoring journalist and even just the general public dislike them too. BTW I would rahter sound like a moron than a nerd, how is "did you see how sideways i was and how close i was to that tree" moronic though? This would make every Rally driver a moron. Even in my past posts when it's very clear I've tried to find common ground with you, you have turned it back into an argument. I really couldn't care less about how someone I have never met perceives me as at the end of the day, I'm doing my own thing and I'm enjoying my life. It's a shame that you are obviously in a position to enjoy a good life but you come on here to argue. I am the kind of person that take the long route home (about 10 miles longer) so I can hit some corners. The amount of time you've spent posting in this one thread alone is vast. Do you know what I'd be doing with that time if I owned an Elise? I'd be driving it. If I have a stressful day at work I dissapear in the car for a couple of hours and come back feeling great. Sounds like you should do the same. This is the last I'm bothering to post in this thread as even if I were to say that you are god and I am not worthy I still feel you would show distain in you posts!

Good day to you sir.

I'm out

You really need to re-read every post you have made in this thread and then say that they don't all read as "I know best" every word, every line. You posted in a thread that was completely dead just to disagree with a post i made in December 2004!!!

Yes, that's what discussion forums are for, you know? discussion.

You can call me a biggot, fact is that out of every person I have met from the U.S, I have only liked a very small percentage of them!

No wonder... I bet the same small percentage of them like you. Not surprising.

I however find that the ratio of likeable to dislikeable Canadians is the exact opposite. It's not just me either. Just about every european motoring journalist and even just the general public dislike them too. BTW I would rahter sound like a moron than a nerd, how is "did you see how sideways i was and how close i was to that tree" moronic though? This would make every Rally driver a moron.

I never said you were a moron because of being sideways and close to a tree. WTF?! And if you'd rather sound like a moron than a nerd (i.e. all the scientists who design and fine-tune these amazing cars) that's fine with me. It figures.

Even in my past posts when it's very clear I've tried to find common ground with you, you have turned it back into an argument. I really couldn't care less about how someone I have never met perceives me as at the end of the day, I'm doing my own thing and I'm enjoying my life. It's a shame that you are obviously in a position to enjoy a good life but you come on here to argue.

I came here to discuss, which is what discussion boards are for, in case you hadn't noticed. You're the one that got offended because I argued your points and made you realize you were wrong on most of them and didn't really know what you were talking about.

I am the kind of person that take the long route home (about 10 miles longer) so I can hit some corners. The amount of time you've spent posting in this one thread alone is vast. Do you know what I'd be doing with that time if I owned an Elise? I'd be driving it. If I have a stressful day at work I dissapear in the car for a couple of hours and come back feeling great. Sounds like you should do the same..

Believe me, I do. Every single day. That doesn't mean I don't have time for posting here.

This is the last I'm bothering to post in this thread as even if I were to say that you are god and I am not worthy I still feel you would show distain in you posts!

Good day to you sir.

I'm out

You're the one who decided to come back and attack me personally (quote: "irod? what crawled up your ass and died? you got some problems") after we were done posting and had ended on a positive note on the motorsport exige. So don't give me this distain [sic] crap, when you're the one who can't get a hold of yourself after someone posts strictly his opinion backed up by facts.

Good day to you too.