Battle of the midjit Roadsters!!

which one of these small but powerful ragtops is the best!!

1)Porsche Boxster S
2)Honda S2000
3)Mercedes-Benz SLK350
4)Mazda Mazdaspeed Miata MX-5
5)Toyota MR-2 Spyder(current gen)
6)Lotus Elise

Lotus Elise, by far the best handling of these cars.

The Miata and the MR-2 have no business in this comparison.

The Miata and the MR-2 have no business in this comparison.

Agreed. We'll have a good comparison for that pair when the Solstice debuts next year.

I also have to wonder why the BMW Z4 and Audi TT were left out of the comparo, however I must agree that the Lotus Elise is the top car from a performance perspective out of all the cars listed. Overall, though, the Porsche Boxster is a more practical choice with superior ergonomics and quality control.

Even as a British car enthusiast, I gotta admit that it's Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious.

Agreed. We'll have a good comparison for that pair when the Solstice debuts next year.

I also have to wonder why the BMW Z4 and Audi TT were left out of the comparo, however I must agree that the Lotus Elise is the top car from a performance perspective out of all the cars listed. Overall, though, the Porsche Boxster is a more practical choice with superior ergonomics and quality control.

Even as a British car enthusiast, I gotta admit that it's Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious.

also where's the 350z. still wouldn't be my top choice but these 3 additional cars should be added, or in place of the miata and/or mr2.

For track car...I would choose the Lotus Elise...but if it had to pull double duty...I would probably choose the BMW Z4 3.0 (not listed)

I'd take the S2000, simply because it's more user-friendly and daily drivable than the Elise.

Kman, the Elise is actually a much more driver friendly car than most give it credit for.

First off, the US market Elise was such a long time coming because Lotus owner Proton wanted to make sure that the car would be able to handle significantly more corpulent American clients. The S2 Elise has a wider interior, and a Touring package is available that adds a choice of either full leather or Alcantara trim, a soft-top with sound and thermal insulation, electric windows, an upgraded Blaupunkt Woodstock DAB radio, CD-R/W and MP3 player, interior stowage net, sound insulation, and full carpet with a lightweight aluminium passenger footrest.

Secondly, the Elise has an incredible ride, always has. Because Lotus was able to keep the weight of even a fully loaded Touring model S2 Elise down to 1892lbs, as compared to the current S2000's 2835lbs, and because Lotus worked closely in tandem with Bridgestone and Eibach, they were able to run softer springs and specially designed progressive dampers that keep the Lotus comfortable yet grippy. This is the heritage of Colin Chapman at its finest, as the Elan, Elite, 7, and Europa all also had excellent rides that belied their astonshing handling prowess.

What makes the Porsche superior as a day to day car, in my eyes, is that it has a much more usable trunk, and the flat six has more usable torque for city driving than either of the Japanese twin-cam fours.

Well, I've never been in one, so I'll take your word for it. I don't doubt that Lotus could make such an unbelievable suspension, but it still lacks a lot of basic power features, and I bet the ride is pretty noisy.

Iv driven and worked on several Elise's and I have to say that they are actualy VERY reliable.
The only major complaint against them was a problem with the head gaskets on the early K series engined cars.
Its a problem is easily fixed with a new head gasket and only effect the first few years of production.

The S1 had a very nice ride, although at open road speed on NZ's bumpy roads it can get a bit jiggly, and from talking to owners who have made long trips in them anything over about 4hrs can start to get very tiring.
But then Elise in all its forms was never ment to be a touring car, the fact that it can and has been used as one is testament to how great it is.

As for the boxter being easier to drive because its engine has more torque?
Yes and no. It also weighs a lot more, and how much torque you have and how it effects the cars drivablity is related to a cars weight. A light weight car like the Elise is actualy very easy to drive with a low torque engine.
And I believe the very torquey, especualy at low RPM toyota engine fitted to the US spec cars will make them VERY easy to drive at any speed.
Iv driven a Corolla powered by the same engine.
It pulls extremly well from very low RPM (like from idle) in any gear, and that was with a heavy corolla station wagon body behind it. In a light weight Elise it will be a an absolute dream to use, and for round town driving should almost make the gearbox redundant.
The K series powered cars are a little differnt, Iv never been much of a fan of the K series, its a lovely engine with lots of tuning potential, but its lack of variable valve timeing on the base models shows through with a very narrow power band, and even the variable cam timeing engines have what I consider to be a narrow power band.


The only thing IMO that would make the Boxter more user friendly are as mentioned its larger boot space, its less involved driver requirements (The Elise transmits every bit of information to the driver all the time, and the steering can require constant input on anything by a very smooth surface) and its higher and more visable shilloette.
An Elise in heavy traffic can be hard to spot, I know of one that has been hit because someone just didnt see it beside another car, and I know of lots of close calls from people who own them.


All that said I would personaly take the S2000, IMO the best compromise of useablity and fun! :)

what about the elise's illigitimate brother the VX220 (any version)?
or the tvr tamora?

I would disagree that the Lotus is a good daily driver. It only has a 125 hp engine, but because of its light weight, it's extremely quick. Howevery, because the top speed is somewhere between 120-130 mph about the same as my 91 CRX, it will run faily high rpms at 80-90, which is good highway speed. It will probably be at the range of 4000-5000 rpms, which is not good run it at that rpm for that long.

I would disagree that the Lotus is a good daily driver. It only has a 125 hp engine, but because of its light weight, it's extremely quick. Howevery, because the top speed is somewhere between 120-130 mph about the same as my 91 CRX, it will run faily high rpms at 80-90, which is good highway speed. It will probably be at the range of 4000-5000 rpms, which is not good run it at that rpm for that long.


the US spec lotus has 190hp

What also makes me choose the Elise is the superb Toyota-Gearbox and only 8l/100km (dunno what's that in mpg)
It's definitely able to be a daily driver

K..i dont know how to edit the polls......but i will remove the weakling Miata and MR2 and add the TT and Beamer..if soemone can tell me how to

K..i dont know how to edit the polls......but i will remove the weakling Miata and MR2 and add the TT and Beamer..if soemone can tell me how to


Only mods can change polls. Anyway i've changed them.

what about the elise's illigitimate brother the VX220 (any version)?
or the tvr tamora?

Well, as long as we're including cars that weren't available stateside, might as well toss in the Renault Spider, too.

The Vauxhall VX220/Opel Speedster (which is rumored to be coming stateside as a Saturn) is very much in line with the other cars in the comparo. 145bhp, 2050lbs (a shade heavier than the Lotus Elise it is heavily based upon). However, its target is the Miata, which it tackles admirably.

The TVR Tamora is well out of the other cars' league. 350hp in a 2365lb car, even if it is the size and price of a Boxster, makes the Tamora a Vette/911 hunter that happens to be a roadster.

And as for my humble non-US market addition, the Renault Spider was a kooky little Elise fighter that took the Elise "everything you need, nothing you don't" philosophy a step further to the point where the car was originally offered sans windshield. 1740lbs and 150bhp made it a brisk performer and a truly fun automobile that is sorely missed if for no other reason than its brazen audacity.

Sometimes, it's fun when a car is simply built a certain way because that's how the company wanted to build it.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/large/1767-1.jpg

Damn Layla's Keeper, you know your shit about European classics :)

That Renault Spider looks pretty damn cool, it'd be fun to own such a bare-bones car :)

i'd probably pick the elise, seems like a fun car to drive no?

.....hey um, oops, sorry.
i keep forgetting that we have different cars available to us.....

the tvr thing slipped my mind completely but i figured that you had the VX220 cos of the solstice concept car.

Except that the Solstice shares nothing with the VX220 except the Ecotec engine. The VX220 is built off of a modified Elise platform and as such is an MR chassis. The Solstice is built off of GM's new global Kappa platform and is an FR chassis.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/large/1847-2.jpg

This is the Solstice roadster as it will be produced starting next year. Naturally, I'm hoping that the Solstice coupe also gets the nod for production.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/large/1185-1.jpg

oops.
my bad again.

y'know, i'm kinda surprised that you don't have the VX220 considering how much demand there is for the elise.
after all, that ecotec engine is US compliant, right?

Well, as I said earlier, there is a rumor that GM is investigating bringing the VX220 stateside as a Saturn model, but that hinges on whether or not GM produces the Saturn Curve, a coupe based off of the aforementioned Kappa platform. If the Curve hits production, then the VX220 project would be a moot point. If not, then the door is open for Saturn's own Miata beater. However, one also has to consider that the Solstice is GM product czar Bob Lutz's own personal pet project and it's doubtful he'd want an Opel/Vauxhall leftover stealing his baby's sales.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/large/1848-2.jpg
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/large/1848-5.jpg

(a few pics of the Curve concept, to show what a federalized VX220 is up against)

Wow, that's pretty aggressive-looking for a Saturn. I think Pontiac could use some of that styling :)

Tiff Needell and the Top gear crew picked the boxster S as the best all around sports car in 2003 and that campro included the lotus and TVR Tamara among all the other cars mentioned in the thread. I saw a rerun of the episode on speed channel about 2 mo ago and have it on tape. Nuff said.

"All around sports car" doesn't necessarily mean best performer or best driving experience. What it means is that the Boxster does all of the "car" things relatively well as well as doing all of the "sports" things relatively well.

However, in my (admittedly limited) experience driving Boxsters they've seemed absolutely numb in their driving. They do an excellent job of ISOLATING the driver from the tactile feeling of road work. You push into a corner and NOTHING happens. Honestly, if the car was any more dead to the touch it'd be a damned Mercedes.

No, the Lotus Elise and the TVR Tamora are far from perfect as daily drivers. The TVR's reliability is suspect and the car has on again, off again build quality. The Lotus has just about zilch for cargo space and neither carpeting or insulation.

However, those cars are alive. They scream around corners, tires screeching, your right foot pointing the car instead of the wheel. These are the cars that screw the "car" portion and aim squarely at the "sports".

That's why they'd always be my choice. Well, that and the fact that I'm an MGB owner. Have to keep waving that Union Jack. :biggrin:

"All around sports car" doesn't necessarily mean best performer or best driving experience. What it means is that the Boxster does all of the "car" things relatively well as well as doing all of the "sports" things relatively well.

However, in my (admittedly limited) experience driving Boxsters they've seemed absolutely numb in their driving. They do an excellent job of ISOLATING the driver from the tactile feeling of road work. You push into a corner and NOTHING happens. Honestly, if the car was any more dead to the touch it'd be a damned Mercedes.


However, those cars are alive. They scream around corners, tires screeching, your right foot pointing the car instead of the wheel. These are the cars that screw the "car" portion and aim squarely at the "sports".
:biggrin:

Man, what are you smokin cuz I want some of it. Were you drunk when you drove the car? Every review I've read on the boxster gushes about how well it transmits road feel and not to mention perfectly weighted steering. Basically every single review of the boxster states the exact opposite of what you just said. It relays lots of road feedback to the driver compared to every other car I have driven. Definately alot more than the M5/ C5/M Roadsters I've driven among plenty others. If the boxster S feel "numb" to you, what does a vette feel like to you...quadriplegic? Hell, even Tiff Needell said the boxster has world class feel and control in the turns as he was driving around the test track and I'm pretty sure he knows what he is talking about. Maybe you and TIFF need to compare notes. Granted the TVR and Lotus are top performers in the turns and they may do other things better than the boxster s, but who wants a car that will punish the driver like they will? I'll tell you who, people that spend more time on the track than on a public road. They simply can't provide the all-around experience that the boxster S provides for the driver. The boxster, I concede, is not the best at anything, but what makes it so great is that it does everything very well which as a whole adds up to more than what the lotus can offer. The lotus is simply too much of a single purpose car for at least 99% of the driving public. Perhaps you are in the 1% of the population that will sacrafice everything for performance, but for most, people want a degree of comfort an ammenities. So, I DO agree with your first paragraph, but perhaps you should take another drive in a Boxster "S" because I think you missed out on alot of what the car really can do.

Okay, I'll grant you I didn't drive an S, but the base Boxster I drove was just plain dull. The only sports cars I know that have felt more castrated than the Boxster are my mother's Mercury Capri and the Mercedes SLK230.

I'm spoiled, I got the chance a few years ago to drive a Porsche 930 round-nose. That was a DRIVER'S CAR. That car was friggin' ALIVE. Unlike the snoozer that was the Boxster, the 930 had me terrified in every corner and I loved every second. I'd sling it into a corner and the back end would be everywhere but behind me. It'd squirm on the brakes and light up the rear tires in every gear right after that honking great turbo would spool down.

I loved that 930 after one drive. It was the first Porsche I'd driven that was as vividly exciting as my MG or an ISMA Supermodified. If the S model can match the 930 for sheer white knuckle terror, I'll enjoy it. Otherwise, it'll just be a faster snoozefest.

Tiff Needell and the Top gear crew picked the boxster S as the best all around sports car in 2003 and that campro included the lotus and TVR Tamara among all the other cars mentioned in the thread. I saw a rerun of the episode on speed channel about 2 mo ago and have it on tape. Nuff said.


Please do not revive 5 month old threads .