Zonda v.s. SL65 AMG

As I understand, you can get the SL65 AMG for under 150,000 pounds. The Zonda Pagani C12S is about 300,000 pounds. Now Merc have just planned the release of 675bhp, and 1000Nm SL69.

I don't think the Zonda is pointless. A 1250kg carbon fibre supercar is never pointless. But is it worth that much more than the Mercs? And is the day to day running of it a pain in the backside compared to the Mercs?

Lastly, howcome Zonda, who uses an AMG engine doesn't get a new one? If I'm going to pay that much for a car, I'd want it's engine to be at least the best of its series.

Because believe it or not, 550bhp just doesn't cut it anymore for a supercar. I don't care what people say about too much horse power, too many electronic aids and getting back to basics. Part of the supercar is bragging rights. And come on, not many supercar owners can fully exploit their car's performance. So the power output and performance figures are what the bragging centres around.

The Zonda is a great car. But if it rests on its laurels, it might just find there no market for it anymore.

The normally aspirated AMG V12 in the Zonda works just fine. Horatio Pagani actually looked to the McLaren F1 for inspiration. Gordon Murray said how Pagani came up to him, saying how he tried to keep the Zonda simple like the F1. Simple means no forced induction. It's just more stuff that can break down. With turbos, you have lag. Superchargers give parasitic drag. Both give you more heat to worry about.

The Zonda is just fine when it comes to performance figures, especially when you consider it's a few years old. It's still faster than the SL65, and even the McMerc SLR.

When the Zonda was released, it was pretty much the anti-establishment supercar. It was fast, powerful, stylish, relatively luxurious, and something of a bargain compared to other supercars. It's still one of the better ones out there.

the Zonda S is probrably the best looking super car out today. it looks like no other. that should be more then enough reason to by it over any SL class benz.

Changed the title to make it a little clearer which AMG offering you're comparing the Zonda to.

And to answer your question, the Zonda will go down in history as a magnificent supercar that rocked the establishment. The SL 65 AMG will go down in history as a pimpmobile. Is the Zonda worth the premium? Without a shadow of a doubt.

a zonda will always be more radical and it will always feel more like a real sportscar... mostly because of it's "purity" and "rigorousness", if you can say so.

I say a car with like 400hp - and 500kg would be one ass-whipping supercar, it's not in the flat numbers, it's in the "ratios" :)

only a big, clean engine, uncomfortable seats and a tube frame covered with carbon fibre. my supersportscar ideal :D

...

no doubt the SL69 sets new standards to luxury sports vehicles.

The main reason that the SL65 makes the zonda look weak (engine wise) is because of the turbos. And kudos to merc that they use them. It seems so many people got the BMW no turbos policy its sad considering all their advantages (load determined powerband, higher thermal efficiency, much higher reliability on very high specifuc output engines etc..). And most supercar and exotic car companies got the same attitude recently, probably due to customer demand.


And please lets not hear about lag, especially when we are talking about a car like the SL65. That car pulls like a diesel.

Btw i'm quite excited that it seems Chrysler will build its ME 4-12 using that SL65 engine. That brilliant engine deserves more than a luxury car platform They already have a full working prototype as seen in the last Motor Trend.

The Zonda is the template for supercars, it's built in double digit quantities each year and is beautifully styled and built and finished with a Carbon Fibre body.

The SL65 AMG is a footballers wives car with a couple of snails bolted on, Rachel Hunter drives one, 'nuff said.

Footballers wives! Whatever... gross stereotype! As is pimp mobile.

I brought mine because its astonishing. In the time it would take your average 2 litre hatch to overtake a car traveling at 60mph, mine can take 8, and have slowed back down to 60mph at the head of the pack.

Turbo Lag doesn't exist on this car, which makes it lightening quick in its response to throttle in/decrease, and it handles beutifuly on british roads, which is more than can be said for other supercars that demand a much higher premium.

I wouldn't want the Zonda, because it would break my back if I hit a cats eye, sharp connering would leave my spline on the passanger seat, and I would be positively exhausted after a lengthy drive in one.

The only modern supercar that I have ever considerd buying is one that I test drove 6 weeks ago. That was a Koenigsegg CC. That was a userfriendly car. Not like the Zonda. The clutch is light, the gears are swift and precise, and it's 4.7 V8 is as happy at around town speeds as it is at tarmac shreadding speeds. Not only that, but the doors alone would keep me entertained for weeks!

This is a stupid comparison anyway. The SL is a grand tourer. Not a Super/Hypercar. Its like comparing an Audi A4 avant to a Mazda MX-5 or something... Totally different cars.

Footballers wives! Whatever... gross stereotype! As is pimp mobile.

Hehe, now you see how we tifosi felt when you used stereotypes for our Ferraris.



The only modern supercar that I have ever considerd buying is one that I test drove 6 weeks ago. That was a Koenigsegg CC. That was a userfriendly car. Not like the Zonda. The clutch is light, the gears are swift and precise, and it's 4.7 V8 is as happy at around town speeds as it is at tarmac shreadding speeds. Not only that, but the doors alone would keep me entertained for weeks!



Hmmm...that is the complete opposite of what testers say. Clarkson said about the Koenigsegg:the clutch is heavy, the steering is heavy, the gearbox is heavy....you can drive to the gym in this thing then turn around head back straight home and had more exercise that if you've done a workout

while tiff Needell from 5th Gear claims about the Zonda:the steering is light but responsive, the ride firm but rewarding, the chassis is not unssetled by the odd camber or bump, I can't believe what a sophisticated car this is

both quotes are exact, since i have both videos and I have reviewed them to isnure accuracy.

I know that, but I've owned 4 Ferrari's and was a big fan in the past, so I think that qualifies me to critisise the car or the manufacturer as much as I wish. Especially after I make the effort to go and look at their new modles and test drive them for myself.

When you get to my age, (69 yesterday...) you cant help but compare old with new. Its the way it works.

I've driven a Zonda C12 (not the "S") version, and didn't find it light or user friendly at all. I've driven a CC and found it quite pleasurable. I drove them, and thats how I felt aftewards.

You can't really base your oppinions on what somebody else says on a video, when you are talking to someone with first hand experiance. So my decision still stands, regardless of what motoring jounalist's think.

I know that, but I've owned 4 Ferrari's and was a big fan in the past, so I think that qualifies me to critisise the car or the manufacturer as much as I wish. Especially after I make the effort to go and look at their new modles and test drive them for myself.

No. What you did was stereotype the Ferrari owners; however, you jumped when Jimster did the same to the merc sl. And you'll forgive me if I reserve a dose of cynicism, afterall the only proof of car ownership you provided was proven to be fake.



You can't really base your oppinions on what somebody else says on a video, when you are talking to someone with first hand experiance. So my decision still stands, regardless of what motoring jounalist's think.


And again you'll forgive me if I trust the word of two of the most famous car reviewers. One of them being a former F1 and LeMans driver.

And you'll forgive me if I reserve a dose of cynicism, afterall the only proof of car ownership you provided was proven to be fake.

Perfectly understandable. Besides, your profile (before you changed it) wasnt one of a 69 yr old man! And what's "Cheltnam"? Surely you know how to spell the place where you live, Cheltenham?? Like Neutrino says, forgive the cynicism. Put up some pics of the cars you own with, i dont know, "i love AF" written on a piece of paper and you'll never hear a word about it again. And since you're fine with having your name and details on the web, why not a pic of you as well?

I think I understand now where Finally_Retired is coming from.

A lot of old cops rave about six shooters when the Glocks are clearly superior in every way.

So called Basketball "PURISTS" (usually old guys) say that the atheletes of today can't compare to the ones in the sixties and seventies. But clearly the players today are bigger, faster stronger, and more skilled.

For these people, older always means better.

Anyway, quick question:

All predjudice aside, would the Zonda have better performance if it had the SL65 AMG's engine?

All predjudice aside, would the Zonda have better performance if it had the SL65 AMG's engine?


I would say yes. Just look at the Chrysler ME 4-12 its a supercar with the SL65 engine. However it might lose some of that exotic high revving engine scream.

Why, when almost every report I've read raves about the F40, do people now days relate supercars with high revving NA engines only?

I love high revving NA engines. But a little variety wouldn't go astray. Even if only to have something to compare to.

Why, when almost every report I've read raves about the F40, do people now days relate supercars with high revving NA engines only?

I love high revving NA engines. But a little variety wouldn't go astray. Even if only to have something to compare to.


I know I feel the same way. Give me turbos anyday. I wish Ferrari would start making turbo cars again, something like a modern 288GTO.

I think most people think of small engines pumped to the limit by turbos.
(I always think of Suziki's legendary Escudo - 1998cc V6 engine with Turbo pushed to 981hp and broke the Pikes Peak record!)

But the SL65 engine uses the twin turbos only in an very restricted measurement, the engine's not rated at 200hp per litre, although it could - If somebody is able to build a gearbox for that - the engine is already reduced from 1200Nm of torque to 1000Nm.

I don't see anything wrong with a bit help of turbos, they can even help to reduce emissions and can increase the mpg.
It's just not very reliable to run them on higher pressures.

No. What you did was stereotype the Ferrari owners; however, you jumped when Jimster did the same to the merc sl. And you'll forgive me if I reserve a dose of cynicism, afterall the only proof of car ownership you provided was proven to be fake.

I stereotyped Ferrari owners purely through first hand experience, both with the cars and the owners/potential buyers. I totaly understand that there are the purists who will forever hang on to Ferrari. I know loads of other people, men and women, of varying ages who own SL's, non of whome are footballers wives, pimps, or rappers! On the flip side to that, I know of lots of Ferrari owners who I wouldn't give the time of day to, because they are so nausiating and full of themselvs. 7 of whome come to mind with out even thinking about it.

As I've said before, I couldn't give a toss if you think I have an SL or not. I am after all, only on here to voice my oppinions and thoughts as I am doing. And ONE of thoes photos was a google product, for reasons I've already said. Have you found the others yet? You'll be looking for a while...

I think I understand now where Finally_Retired is coming from.

A lot of old cops rave about six shooters when the Glocks are clearly superior in every way.

So called Basketball "PURISTS" (usually old guys) say that the atheletes of today can't compare to the ones in the sixties and seventies. But clearly the players today are bigger, faster stronger, and more skilled.

For these people, older always means better.

That is bull. Don't get all hung up thinking that I'm stuck in a timewarp or something. I have a 300SL, and an SL65. While I do love the 300SL, I appreciate that it is flawed, and that a modern car is miles ahead of it in almost every respect of design and manufacture. Afterall, I'd rather have an accident in the 65 than the 300SL.

And erm... six shooters. Ex cops. Glocks... Lost on me.

Perfectly understandable. Besides, your profile (before you changed it) wasnt one of a 69 yr old man! And what's "Cheltnam"? Surely you know how to spell the place where you live, Cheltenham?? Like Neutrino says, forgive the cynicism. Put up some pics of the cars you own with, i dont know, "i love AF" written on a piece of paper and you'll never hear a word about it again.
What was my profile before. I simply added more detailes. And I don't live in Cheltenham, but in a very small village about halfway bettween there and Worcester. If I had simply put "Castlemorton", you would have been non the wiser. And do you ever make typo's?

As far as sticking bits of paper ontop my cars, and taking photos of it goes, thats sad, but if thats what I need to do to have a valid oppinion around here, so be it.

finally retired

You've never cleared that up before. Reading your posts, it sounds like you think all Ferrari owners are pricks.

Have you ever met any Mercedes or AMG owners you wouldn't give the time of day to? I have. There's good and bad in any group. So can that AMG owners have taste and Ferrari owners are posers with small dicks attitude.

BTW, I don't get hung up thinking anything about you. I only get hung up thinking about beautiful girls and my next car. And reading your profile, have they released the DB9 Volante yet? I thought that was next year. Maybe just in Australia.

Ok, ok. I take it back...

Get this clown!!! I'm ashamed to own the same car as him! (well, boardering on her):

What fun I had yesterday evening!

I was trying to simultaneously primp myself in the vanity mirror and merge our freshly delivered SL65 AMG onto the West Side Highway, when from nowhere this dirty poor mechanic looking man in a Ford Ranger goes road rage on me!

I was frightened , as I saw his dirty unpolished fingers flicking me off through his shattered trash-bag covered windows. Mr. Home Depot began to flash me with his seemingly dead halogen headlights; little did he know my roadster was equipped with auto-dimming rear view mirrors.

While frightened at first, I later found it difficult to wipe the smirk off my Prada moisturized face! As I stomped on the AMG pedal with my Guccis' to activate the V12 Bi-Turbo’s 612 horsepower and 450 kW of torque, all I could see through my Fendi (Model 7221) glasses/auto dimming rear view mirror was a mere ‘dot’! Not quite satisfied, so I slow down to about 55 mph and wait for his hooptie to pass my AMG Masterpiece (Custom red Napa Leather spec'd).

He catches up; passes and I begin to follow him like David & Victoria Beckham’s son Brooklyn’s life depended on it!

I tried to flash him with my Bi-Xenons’ but accidentally hit another stalk with my slippery freshly manicured hands (Chanel).

I tried again, this time with more force. I furiously begin to release the High-Intensity charged Bi-Xenons like Donatella Versace throwing her out her last-season couture through the Gianni designed stained glass windows of her Milan estate! I could see his scary eyes un-moisturized, and un-trimmed eyebrows through his broken mirror.

I wind down the passenger side window. He looks stunned. He is either (a) distorted by my captivating beauty, or (b) distorted by my captivating beauty! I furiously throw my Mirrolaca Frappuchino through the window while kindly press down on my aluminum trim AMG pedal, graciously giving him one last remembrance of my V12 Bi-Turbo engine.

Tired of the frolicking, I merrily merged on to exit onto 72 St. When I glanced up at the mirrors, what do I see? Police lights. I began to panic, clutching onto my Yves St. Laurent chinchilla to ease the anxiousness.

The police officer slowly steps out of his dirty, non-xenon-equipped Impala with his ugly Wal-Mart shiny boots and begins to question me.

With arrogance, I crack my windows down abet and asks what he wants. Money? Contacts? Tickets to next season’s fashion week????

He rolls his Neutrogena moisturized eyes, and proceeds to write the ticket. He tells me I was doing 95 on the freeway, and I look to him in his dirty eyes and began to tell him what I’m going through! I also explained my court-phobia! Believe me, I’ve been to court before and I will never sit on those wooden benches again! You should have seen the damage they did to my Prada trousers! Even Prada themselves could not save them.

He goes back to his car to write the ticket. I glance down at my Breitling Rescue Watch. 5 Minutes has passed. I slowly step out onto the chilly and damp streets of Manhattan, sensually revealing my pointy Gucci’s. (So pointy they are considered a weapon in the state of New Jersey)! Without thinking, I knock on his dirty window with my Prada moisturized hands and I demand him to hurry! I had a private fitting with Dior that evening!

I’ll finish the story later. I have to run.

Ciao!

To top it off, he goes and says "Ciao!" AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Sorry for the essay, but you need to see it all.

May I appologise profusely to the Tifosi, and non idiotic Ferrari Drivers.

Jim.

LOL pretty interesting story. I would hope it was satire otherwise that guy is a sad little man.

Haha, that HAS to be a satire post.

Has to be a joke. No one can be that stupid.

And it has to be a woman, or a gay. No man does those things. Though I'm pretty convinced it was in jest.

Definitely a spoof.

I kid you not. Check out the whole thread! He sticks to his convictions, I'll give him that.

http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=85483&page=1&pp=10

It keeps giong. Read it and weep... its all true, and its a sorry state of affairs.

Thank you finally retired.

If all you other guys haven't checked out that thread, you should. It's the most entertaining BS I've read in a long time. And that's just the first five pages.

Though what suprises me is, people actually respond to his/her crap. I guess I would too, only to see it keep going and provide ongoing laughs.

BTW, howcome no one pointed out that torque isn't measured in KW and 450 is not the right figure in Lb ft or Nm for the SL65?

I hadn't noticed. I guess, like me, they were so blinded by that guys bull. You are correct however.