Pros and Cons of the VG30DE vs VQ35DE

This is just a question I've been asking Z owners of all kinds and I have been getting mixed reviews of both engines.

so far I have the VQ35DE as a weaker engine becuase it was not designed to be turbo, but thats not my issue dont plan on going boosted. Also heard someone say that it sucks becuase it has a chain timing belt. Dont know about all that.

I have heard equal gripes about the VG30DE in its stock form, but I havent had any problems out of the engine itself.

I am looking for constructive responces. I know VERY little about the VQ35DE and I have been tring to find time to read up on it but in the middle of a coast to coast move.

If you are dead set against turbos you have just made your life very hard. One glaring problem with something you've been told

How the hell they figure timing chains are bad? Probably because RBs and 2JZs don't use them. Whoever told you that is a moron. Timing chains are far superior to belts, as they can be internally lubed and will never break unless you are running some 1000hp 427 with a blower and nitrous. Some point to the fact that many builders today don't use them. Dur, they are more expensive and belts are fine for a daily driver civic.

Anyway, the power upgrades for a NA are limited in amount and potential gain. Basically to have a really uber NA engine you either have to go really big (aka 427) or really tuned (aka Ferrari style). So the larger VQ has the advantage of the extra 500ccs of displacement and much more technology behind it as far as its build and design. Not to mention that as a stock NA engine in the 350Z, there is many more parts available for it as an NA engine. There is few parts for the NA VG, mostly because everyone who wants big power just gets a TT.

Of course the stock engine in the Z32, if you are dead set on getting one and running a powerful NA engine, is going to be cheaper and easier as you don't have to figure out how to get the VQ in the car.

Why are you so set on NA? What are your plans for the car?

I perfer NA power. It also makes for the ultamate sleeper, and beat down. Most muscle heads out there with there big block V8s say the only thing the import guys have for them is turbos, without that they aint jack. I want to proove that wrong.

I also like the on demand power of NA over turbos. Not to mention the old saying "Keep it simple and stupid." The less that can brake the better.

lets go to the basics, the vg is made of iron (i i'm not mistaken) and the vq is made of aluminum. vq may be lighter, but won't last as long as the iron-block vg. so but then again, you have to look at the displacement, USUALLY the more displacement you have, the more power you will be able to get out of it.

I heard differently on the VQ engine... I heard they are really BOOST friendly. The simplicity of NA's goes away once you start heavily modifying them... so get rid of that mentality! Why are you comparing VQ and VG anyway? Are you swaping engines? As for the VG30DE (NA), and I'll have to disagree a bit with broke here... There are parts out there that can give you some substantial power gains! JUN and ESCORT racing make stroker kits if you are displacement envy and there are tons of bolt on such as hi-flow plenums, UD pulleys, intakes (single and dual), headers, test-pipes and you can always use NITROUS (yes, I know if we want to be technical then the engine is not considered NA). The possibility of an insane VG30DE powered Z is there... it just takes some money and juevos! As you can see there are quite a bit of things you can do to a VG30DE NA to gain power than even in a VQ (not including turbos or superchargers... but then again NITROUS is not considered NA, right?). There are just as many mods for the VG than the VQ I think... if not more!

I know VERY little about the VQ35DE and I have been tring to find time to read up on it but in the middle of a coast to coast move.

So what is it you want to know? NA upgrades? It really depends on what your budget is.

To start out small, there are bolt-ons(I/H/E), ECU upgrades, etc.

At the midrange, there are cams. They'll be on the expensive side, since you're paying for four. There's really little-to-no difference between the VQ and VG on this matter, since they are both quad cam motors.

At the top-end, there are stroker kits. You can go up to 3.8L with a kit from Hoshino Impul. I'm not sure on the price, but shipping will be expensive, since it's from Japan. Exhange rate might not be too favorable, either.
Your other option is the kit from AEBS. Their kit brings the VQ35 up to 4.3L, and includes pistons with compression ratios of 11:1 or 11.5:1. Just in case you decide to go with forced induction after all, the kit also includes sleeves capable of holding 55psi and is available with 8.5:1 pistons. The kits are custom made to order, but you can probably expect them to be between $8-9k.

If you can get the VQ into a Z32, it won't be a bad setup at all. The VQ35DE weighs less and makes more power than the VG30DE. If you can do the swap cheaply enough, and plan on staying NA, I say go for it.

Broke your so right, chains are much better than belts. I converted my VG to chains at a $$$$$cost.

Freak your right on they are aluminum so less weight to put in motion.

Iv your right and wrong so you get a c+. Nitrous is a adder, the engine is still NA, and you can, if you have or want to spend the $$$$$ one wild, insane NA.

Wanna a ass kickin NA get out the cook book and follow the directions and copy this car:

http://z32racing.50megs.com/Z/_photos/_20030524/page_01.htm

If this don't trip your trigger then you've got to get serious with some serious $$$$$$.

Well my goal is to have a good, if not great streetable daily driver, NA engine, that will still pass 48 states emissions, Cali not being one of them. It has to run on pump gas no octane booster, and be relativily maintance free, in other words no compete engine rebuilds every 10k miles. Like some monster V8s on the street today.

I have been doing some research. I do Like the automatic tranny in the 350Z better than the current auto, in my Z. Lets do the math 4spd AT that has some pretty sloppy shifts vs a solid 5 spd AT with a optional sport shift mode. Either engine I will choose I will be tring to get the 350Z 5spd AT behind it. Why AT because, like I said a daily driver and alot of times that means city driving LOTS of stops and goes. Did the manual thing for a while got REAL tired of it in the city quick. Not to mention AT are stronger than manual trans in daily driving use. That and they work on PFM (Pure Fairy Majik)"J/K"

The VQ35DE is a solid engine but there are alot of good after market parts becoming available through Stillen and JWT. But finding one and then getting it into my engine bay is going to be a challenge. I think there is only 2.5 inches of clearance on either side after I did my measuments. Still not sure about hood clearances. Now mind you this is on the stock mounting locations.

But over all I do love the power of a turbo/boosted car, but I love the instant power of a NA engine more. Plus the V6 is the most underrated engine on the market today, most people just boost them, I found you can make some surprising power gains out of a Ford Duratec 3.0 V6 by tooling with the compression ratios and the head porting. This was on a engine dyno though.

Oh and I am not setting the car up for 1/4 mile, this is not what the car was designed for it was a track star, road courses, so this is what I am setting the "Green Hornet" up for. The Z that Escort has is great for quarter horse stuff but not my cup o' tea. The biggest thing I need to upgrade is the brakes and the exhaust and intake, those have to be the most lacking systems I have ever seen on a sports car. When I say exhaust system I mean heads back. A good porting and some valve work along with some new cams would definatly make a HUGE differance in that car. Then comes that Tranny WOW, talk about econo gears, my ZX2 had a better gear ratio unfortantly. This is the BIGGEST reason for a AT swap. My BHP goal is roughly 450, my WHP goal would come to about 330-360 depending on final AT choices, and drive shaft and such changes.

At the top-end, there are stroker kits. You can go up to 3.8L with a kit from Hoshino Impul. I'm not sure on the price, but shipping will be expensive, since it's from Japan. Exhange rate might not be too favorable, either.


Any more info on this Kit???

ooooo, 1via wants more than 3.2L.

ooooo, 1via wants more than 3.2L.

Yuh... that would freaking cool... but I'm starting to think he was refferring to the VQ engine... sux!

Yuh... that would freaking cool... but I'm starting to think he was refferring to the VQ engine... sux!

Yeah, I was. I don't really know much more about it, either. Can't read IMPUL's site. :disappoin

Yuh... damn that language barrier! It's okay! I thought you were talking about the VG at first... I can care less about the VQ...

I can care less about the VQ...
Why's that? Just wondering, not trying to pick a fight. Since you have a non turbo Z, it wouldn't be a bad swap at all, especially if you wanted to stay NA. You get an extra 60hp+, less weight, etc. On top of that, the motor is legal, so you don't have to worry about figuring out if something like an RB(are you still thinking of an RB25DET??) will pass inspection or not. A VQ35 is also likely to be newer, so it should be in better shape, but if you do need replacement parts, they should be easier to find than on a JP-only motor.

look in his sig vquick. it says "not too distand future: 3.2 liter vg30de". what is the max power out put you can get out of a vq on stock internals?

-Jared

I like the idea of the VQ more but its looking to be a year or two off before I can do it. Schedual hasnt been where I want it, knore has the money for now. Just need to flag a couple of 100 hour weeks and everything will be ok.

Why's that? Just wondering, not trying to pick a fight. Since you have a non turbo Z, it wouldn't be a bad swap at all, especially if you wanted to stay NA. You get an extra 60hp+, less weight, etc. On top of that, the motor is legal, so you don't have to worry about figuring out if something like an RB(are you still thinking of an RB25DET??) will pass inspection or not. A VQ35 is also likely to be newer, so it should be in better shape, but if you do need replacement parts, they should be easier to find than on a JP-only motor.

Sorry... didn't mean to sound anal about that coment ("I could care less about the VQ"). I'm kinda sticking to roots and fixing up what I have. As for the RB swap... that has been canned. Although I would love to see or even do that swap later. Now,as freakonaleash mentioned, I have decided (well... more like plan...) to stroke out my VG30DE to 3.2 liters along with some other mods. If the plans go okay I should be able to run this setup in about two years. :biggrin: Although a VQ could give me all you mentioned, modded VQ's are a dime a dozen right now... I tend to take the route less traveled.

George if you check with Escort guys I think they can tell you what block you can use that's the same as the VG block but can be bored to 90 or 91mm I think that bore along with a stroker crank would put you in the real big class. If you can find a Nissan mechanic whos really into the Nissan engines you might even be able to find a VG combination of block, crank, rod and piston that would put you into the 3.5 area. I'll do some research frin this end and see what I can come up with.

Dream as if you'll live forever, Live as if you'll die tomarrow.

The guys at ESCORT are kinda hard to get a hold of... The BOSS is in Japan currently and the shop is closed for the meantime. I am however waiting to hear back from a fellow who is employed by ESCORT that frequents 300ZXclub.com on some more details and information... but I have not really sat down with anyone yet. One option I was hoping for was maybe just rebuilding the engine with certain parts instead of buying the whole crate engine. I'm not sure if that would be cheaper or not. Buy I would deffinately like to know if I could get a bigger stroke in their or not. I have done some internet searching and have come up empty-handed so-far. If you could find some info for me that would be great, Zgringo! BTW I sent you a PM about your HKS ALC... my email address is oneviadrift99@hotmail.com please email if you get a chance.

Dream as if you'll live forever... live as if you'll die today... ahhh, James was great. RIP

look in his sig vquick. it says "not too distand future: 3.2 liter vg30de". what is the max power out put you can get out of a vq on stock internals?

-Jared

Oh, I remember he was thinking of an RB25 before. As far as max power, it depends on the VQ. The 3L Maxima guys are getting 500hp+(267fwhp, a gain of 100hp, @only 4psi!!), and that's with the stock compression(10:1), a bottlenecked exhaust, and no serious flow mods(head porting, cams, etc). I haven't kept up on what they're up to, but that's the last I heard. If they got the 9:1 pistons from the JP turbo motor(just low comp, not stronger), they could probably run even more boost.

As for VQ35s, their compression is even higher, so you really have to be careful. Add enough fuel, and you should be good for around 500hp, but probably have more torque than the 3L.

Iv, I'm looking and trying to find some real facts on this. In the mean time I've posted this before but appearently not many read it, cause the I keep hearing the compression thing over and over. When engineers talk of supercharging, their talking about all forms of boost, ect. Turbo's. screwtype and belt centrifical superchargers. And true you have to be careful with all boost, any boost. Done properly next best thing to nitrous and sex.
If you really want to know about compression and supercharging read the following:

http://www.motorsportsdigest.com/forced2.htm

Is it beer time? :licka: