Cobalt vs. Celica GT-S

I was reading Motor trend. In there October 2004 Vol.56 No.10 issue they have a New Car Buyer's guide. The 05 Cobalt comes at 140HP and the Celica GT-S has 180HP. But they got a SS version of the cobalt ther is 205HP and it is cheaper then the Celica. They thing is the celica is lighter then the Cobalt. But I would get the SS Cobalt over the Celica going stock for stock. Hmmm, I wounder what kind of aftermarket parts and things you can do to the Cobalt. Research time I guess.

The GT-S is dead after 2005. A much better comparo would be to Toyota's new sport compact, the Scion tC. It also can come with a TRD supercharger that will put it at 200 hp for about the same price as the Cobalt SS.

I hate those things so much. I wish they would go away. I would still pick the Chevy over it.

The GT-S is dead after 2005.

Really? well let me be the first one to get up and do a lil dance to that! So long! lets hope the next supra is actually a sportscar, unlike you!

But back to the comparo the cobalt will probably have all the aftermarket parts the sunfire had, which is alot. Plus its got a bigger engine with tons more torque...I think the n/a celica is a lil outgunned here

Cobalt comes with an Eaton Supercharged Ecotec 2.0L. The supercharger on it is pretty muc maxxed out boost wise.... so short of pulling the supercharger and porting/ polishing, or swapping it for the bigger M90... you wont be able to mod the car that much.

You could probably still do the typical bolt-ons but with the supercharger maxxed out its hard to get any significant or cheap power out of it.

between the cobalt and celica, i would have to go with the cobalt i guess. both are girls cars, but the cobalt is less of one. plus, since the cobalt is supposedly faster, i will take the fasater one. but if you want to include the tC, then i would definitely take the tC.

Scion tC supercharged vs Cobalt SS supercharged would be a great showdown.

First of all Mason you got a good car.

It would be a good showdown but I would be rooting for the Cobalt. I'm a big chevy you if you havn't guessed. I've been considering on getting it anyway cuz I need a new car.

i hate celicas... theyre horrible cars... i dunnomuch about the new cobalt but id take it over the celica... id rather have an svt focus... not really fast but REALLY fun to drive... btw SSBigBlock, u a juggalo? (judgin by ur icon)

Hell yeah I'm a Juggalo, you are? svt focus is a fun car but I would rather have the RS8 Focus with 500hp that was running with a Lambo.

lol, ya im down... and an rs8 is a bit extreme... but ya that would be the way to go... there aint any extra room under the hood to do much though...

Sweet, what up lo. True but think of these imports you would beat with that thing.

true but id rather be beatin an import in a stang.. or the new corvette, its the first corvette since the classics that ive actually liked although 400 hp out of 6 liters is a little dissapointing, the engine got bigger but the numbers didnt. it handles pretty damn good to.

First of all Mason you got a good car.


Thanks man...always good to get a compliment...and I am a fan of the old school caprice

Now that were completely off topic, I have to say that im impressed with the 6L 400hp vette engine...I think that for a pushrod engine it really fights the DOHC trend well...Consider the 760...a 6L V12 only puts out 44 and 38 more hp and torque respectively, and thats BMW known for getting the most out of every engine, and its got 4 more cylinders

okay, consider the new f-430, 4.3L v-8 making 495 hp, that is 1.7L smaller than the corvette engine and making 95 more hp. but i can already see it now, "but look how much you pay for a ferrari comapred to the corevette". i'm just comparing engines here, not prices.

considering the mustang has almost the same hp/liter and costs less than half the price (or the almighty 5.0 cammer for that matter)... not baggin on the vette engine but pushrods are losing the war. and besides that i meant its dissapointing compared to the previous engine in the zo6... bigger with 5 less hp (granted this isnt the z06) but im hopin corvette puts out a faster vette soon.

Chevy will be coming out wiith a Z07 soon not sure on the specs though. I would like there cocept car. The Tiger Shark which has 750 HP Now thats a vette that I want. Back to the Import beating thing. I like the whole sleeper thing. It would be funny to see a import with a cocky driver get beat by a 89 caprice. Back to Mason. A good friend of mine has a base Integra(DC5). They are fun to be in. Sleepers to me are the best. Some cocky guy with a civic si or something like that. You come up with a car that don't look all that great but your hiding a secret that you have done a lot of work on the inside and your car hauls arse. You both get ready to go and when you do, you completly spank him and he is all like WTF. And there is one less cocky import racer out there. No offense to those who drive imports, I like some of them my self and I know there is some out there that knows what they are doing.

okay, consider the new f-430, 4.3L v-8 making 495 hp, that is 1.7L smaller than the corvette engine and making 95 more hp. but i can already see it now, "but look how much you pay for a ferrari comapred to the corevette". i'm just comparing engines here, not prices.


Haha but it's a fair arguement. Besides, the neat thing about the LS2 engine isn't the 400/400, it's the 20/29 mpg on the road. That is just nuts. Buuuuut that's a tad bit off topic.

As for the Cobalt... uhg a supercharger on a 4 cyl. I assume they did this to keep the price down? Although Dodge did just fine keeping the price down on the SRT-4. Hrm.

I think I would be hard pressed on the whole Celica vs SS Cobalt. I don't think you could lose either way. I just plain like the Celica more but my domestic nuthugging pulls me toward the Cobalt. What to do?

I'm kinda in the same boat. The Cobalt SS looks like the more exciting car to me, but my loyalty to Toyota pulls me towards the Celica and the tC. I guess I'd buy whichever one is cheaper in this case (which would probably be the Chevy).

well let me ask, is the drivetrain of the cobalt the same as that of the cavalier??? because i have been doing some research, and have pretty much figured out how to adapt the AWD running gear of the venture van into a cavalier, but only with an automatic. still working out the bugs for a manual. but if the cobalt is basicly a restyled cav, how about an AWD supercharged cobalt vs the celica???? and there are plenty of aftermarket modifications for the ecotec, personally i would probly pull the supercharger and throw on a turbo kit with an intercooler for 250+hp but thats just me.

The Cobalt and the Cavaliar are different cars. I think they share the same base 2.2L and tranny, but for the most part, they are completely different.

i havent seen times for a cobalt, but i know for a fact that the celica gts can do 14.4 stock, if the driver is good.

There is no way in hell a Celica GT-S can do 14.4 bone stock. Show me a time slip -- hey wait, there is none.

Cobalt comes with an Eaton Supercharged Ecotec 2.0L. The supercharger on it is pretty muc maxxed out boost wise.... so short of pulling the supercharger and porting/ polishing, or swapping it for the bigger M90... you wont be able to mod the car that much.

You could probably still do the typical bolt-ons but with the supercharger maxxed out its hard to get any significant or cheap power out of it.

companies never "max out" superchargers or turbo chargers... if they did engines would be blowing up everywhere... i dont think i have ever heard of a car that came with 30psi stock

Thanks man...always good to get a compliment...and I am a fan of the old school caprice

Now that were completely off topic, I have to say that im impressed with the 6L 400hp vette engine...I think that for a pushrod engine it really fights the DOHC trend well...Consider the 760...a 6L V12 only puts out 44 and 38 more hp and torque respectively, and thats BMW known for getting the most out of every engine, and its got 4 more cylinders

I dont think its very fair to compair the V12 from a luxury BMW against a sports car engine for power #s. Engines you should really be impressed with are the E60 M5's 5.0L V10 with 500bhp and the E46 M3's 3.2L with 333hp.

There is no way in hell a Celica GT-S can do 14.4 bone stock. Show me a time slip -- hey wait, there is none.

Agreed

I don't care how luxurious it is its a V12! and it does have more hp and torque than a Hemi, which displacement wise is close enough competition...and I am impressed with the E46

I would be impressed if a celica could run a 14.4 stock, but thats not happening

ive done 14.4, you see when mags test car they dont speed shift or go into red line, the celica vvtl-i kicks in at 6600 i think, so if you can drive to 8k rpm than you will get a fast time. I did this on a bone stock celica, let me find the site for stock times and ill get back at you.

you see when mags test car they dont speed shift or go into red line,

ROFL!!! You, sir, are an idiot.

yea this guy swears that a celica gt-s can run a 14.4. what a liar man. its more like a 15.4.

Ok, The Cobalt is not a Redone Cavalier, and Pushrods are best for high performance engines, and cheaper to boot. High Tech doesn't always mean better.

Ok, The Cobalt is not a Redone Cavalier, and Pushrods are best for high performance engines, and cheaper to boot. High Tech doesn't always mean better.

ummm... the cobalt doesn't have a pushrod engine, its DOHC ecotec...

hmmm pushrods might be lighter and cheaper, but i wouldn't never go on saying its better for performance engines. you guys need displacement to make up the lack of flow from your 2 valve heads. one of teh best flowing push rod heads is the hemispherical heads, but its still a 2 valve design with one large intake valve and one small exhuast valve compare the surface area of the two valves combined and put it up agaisnt any average 4 valve per cylinder head of a similar size bore diameter and the 4 valve will always out flow the push rod's 2 valve heads. why do you think formula one doesn't use push rods in their 3-4 liter 800hp n/a engines? why do you think your 3.8 liter blown push rod v6 can't even make as much power as a n/a 3.5 liter dohc v6? or why do you think its so harsh to rev it to nears its redline compared to a silky smooth dohc v6?

hmmm pushrods might be lighter and cheaper, but i wouldn't never go on saying its better for performance engines. you guys need displacement to make up the lack of flow from your 2 valve heads. one of teh best flowing push rod heads is the hemispherical heads, but its still a 2 valve design with one large intake valve and one small exhuast valve compare the surface area of the two valves combined and put it up agaisnt any average 4 valve per cylinder head of a similar size bore diameter and the 4 valve will always out flow the push rod's 2 valve heads. why do you think formula one doesn't use push rods in their 3-4 liter 800hp n/a engines? why do you think your 3.8 liter blown push rod v6 can't even make as much power as a n/a 3.5 liter dohc v6? or why do you think its so harsh to rev it to nears its redline compared to a silky smooth dohc v6?

The n/a 3.5 iter dohc cam engines are indeed very nice. They are also rather new technology. Whereas the 3.8 liter OHV is 10 year old technology. Also, these engines are tuned very differently. The 3.5 OHC is tuned more for performance (10.4 c.r./280 hp/approx. 20 mpg) whereas the 3.8 is tuned more for reliability/gas mileage (9.4 c.r./205 hp/approx. 25 mpg) It's all how you look at it. What if I turned it around and pointed out how a 10 year old V6 with .3 liter bigger displacement is getting 5 mpg better gas mileage (in a heavier car to boot) than the new tech. 3.5

Out of the two, I would take the celica. Just because I love the way they handle, I love the engines scream, and toyotas are bulletproof. Cobalt is faster, but the toyota is cooler, looks better, handles better, and would last longer IMO

well back to the cobalt ss, it seems like its the exact same car as the Ion redline, and they both seem like lesser versions of the srt-4

ive done 14.4, you see when mags test car they dont speed shift or go into red line, the celica vvtl-i kicks in at 6600 i think, so if you can drive to 8k rpm than you will get a fast time. I did this on a bone stock celica, let me find the site for stock times and ill get back at you.


What a tool. You say you drive a Celica GT-S, but you don't even know when lift starts or when the rev limiter is..

A stock Celica GT-S is not going to run 14.4 in stock trim.. it's not possible.. not going to happen!! If you were to do weight reduction and unbolt the stock exhaust.. it might be possible with an excellent driver. I could probably pull it off.. but I don't feel like driving 3 hours to a 1/4 mile track again just to prove something.

I think a stock GT-S with weight reduction, unbolted stock exhaust, and a ported stock header would be able to hit 14.4. That's the ONLY way a "stock" Celica will hit 14.4.

To get a few things straight, The Cobalt SS is totally different from the Cavalier. The Cavalier is built on the J-Body platform while the Cobalt is built on the Delta-platform.

Also, its best to actually watch a dyno vid of the Cobalt SS, they're quite underrated from the factory. The video I recently saw has a Cobalt SS pushing around 215 and I think a few extra HP once they put in just a K&N.

As far as the comparison to the redline, it is warranted. The motor is basically the same except for a few tweaks. However, the platform is different and the Cobalt is just better made.

As for who would win, I'd prefer not to speculate, I'd rather see them race. Given that I'm a Chevy guy, you can guess where my bias would lie, but you just never really know.

Vip has run like a 14.8 or 14.9 in a stock gts and has the time slips to prove it and he is a damn good driver the car runs about 15.4 stock...so dropping an entire second in the 1/4 is completely unbelievable

Well, Cobalt SS's are proving to be competent handling, decently powerful sport coupes. The Celica had a reputation for good handling, but a peaky and practically useless powerband.

Guy I know went from an Acura Integra GS-R to a current gen Celica GT-S. That was the first time I'd ever heard someone pining for the broad torque curve of a HONDA. :screwy:


As far as the pushrod versus overhead cam argument, let's first establish that DESMODROMIC valve actuation is in fact superior to both.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmodromic_valve

Ducati uses this on their motorcycle engines, but in automotive use it stretches back to the infamous Miller/Offenhauser four cylinder that dominated Indy, winning the 500 24times from 1934 to 1960 (including sweeping the podium for the whole decade of the 50's). In turbocharged form inside of Gurney and McLaren chassis, the Offy extended its winning streak into the 70's even!

It was a 2.5L four cylinder that produced 420hp in friggin 1934! There's your superior American technology.

http://www.milleroffy.com/miller_fwd_exposed_engine.jpg
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/historic/champ73/vuky73.jpg

And, just so that we're not nationally biased - it should also be mentioned that the Mercedes W196's also had desmodromic valves.