What I Want

:naughty: :naughty: OK well Basicly I did have a '96 Blazer and it has audioPAWN Alum 12's in it with 4 sony (also crap) 400w amps rinning them and clarion 2 way 6 1/2" door speakers...sold that crap...and i am now currently looking for a light extended cab truck... here is what i am saving up for to take up that extended cab space...

Subs
RE audio SE 12''s (woofers)
Crystal Audio CAD T600.2 (amp)
Ported 4.25cf enclosure tuned to 40Hz

Mids/Highs
Crystal Audio CSc 50t Componet set (cross overs and all)
Crystal Audio T200.2 (amp)

and im not sure about the head unit yet....

This or
Subs
DD audio DD2512 12''s (woofers)
Pheonix Gold Ti1000.2
Ported 4.00cf Enclosure tuned to 45Hz

Mids/Highs
Crystal Audio CSc 50t Componet set (cross overs and all)
Crystal Audio T200.2 (amp)

Im pretty set on the crystal audio mids/highs...later i may upgrade the midbass woofer to DDw6.5's but that is once i become un happy with the above listed...i was thinking of going with DD3500 series but the amps that thoes puppies deserve to be fed with are way out of my pricerange at the time. I want a head unit that i can turn all the way up and spal thoes RCA cables into an ocilioscope and not see any clipping or distortion....but thoes type units are also out of my price range...if you have any questions/comments/suggestions e-mail me or just reply and maybe i will be able to find it...oh yes and i am a noob :sly: to this automotiveforms.com thing but i am not a noob in my stereo knowlage...as you can see i stayed with only the finest woofers in my pricerange....and i do love rock....but nothing pisses off the foges like a nice hard bass line :evillol: ....which is why i want my stereo to be versitile...i am still deciding on an EQ also....

Are you going for a SPL-only setup or something? You've got decent subs picked out, but a 40-45hz tune? That's way higher than I would tune for a daily setup

anyway, have you heard those crystals before? I've heard they're nice but the tweets can be a little bright.

mostly SQ but i want to have a good 130dB bass line...this will be hard with a box tuned to 25-30Hz...most music doesnt have much audiable sound below 35Hz anyway....

wha? 130dB isn't hard at all with a good sub or 2 decent subs in a ported box, whether it's tuned in the 20's or not. And if you're going for SQ, you definitely want to tune lower. It's not because songs have a bunch of info that low, it's to flatten out the response. Have you seen a response graph of a 45hz box before? It looks very similar to a prefab bandpass box's response, really really ugly.

You would be going through hell trying to EQ it so that it could sound good with a 40-45hz tune

@45Hz the port will be at its peak...it becomes extremely hard for the human ear to detect flats below 35Hz...at which point i dont care about that low anyway....and when i speak if 130dB i am not talking about the supersensitive dB drag mics. mounted on the bottom left corner of the wind sheild...i am speaking of 130dB in the center of the cab...and yes that is extremely hard to reach...i may or may not tune lower...but at hte moment i am going to tune to 40Hz most likely...

yes at 45hz the sub's excursion will be the lowest (actually slightly above the tuning, but that's beside the point), and you'll also get a huge peak in the response. I'm not talking 1-2dB, I'm talking 6dB or higher. I don't know what you mean by "it becomes extremely hard for the human ear to detect flats below 35Hz", if you have a huge peak in the response you will hear it, I don't care what frequency it's at.

And no it's still not that hard to hit 130dB in the center of the cab, I hit 130dB in the center of the cab pretty easily while listening to rock music with the volume up and I just have a single ported 12 (tuned at 26hz btw) on 800rms (now it's more power, but at the time that I measured this I was using an 800rms amp).

a Flat note is what most bass lines in rock and some in rap are...i dont know exact frequincies but one octave of notes is a double in Hz...the 1st octave is 20-40Hz...the notes are 20, 20.5, 25, 27.5, 30, 32.5, 35, 37.5, and 40Hz...flats in the 1st octave are extremely hard to tell from notes...notes are combined to make harmonis...our hears like htoes harmonics...flats our ears only like alone and are the easyest to re create....low flats are hard to hear ad decent listening levels...

That's fantastic, but I really don't see how this applies to anything. If you tune in the 40's you'll get a HUGE peak in the response and it will be practically impossible to EQ it to a flat response, which is what you need for a SQ setup. If you tune lower, you don't get this huge spike, it's as simple as that.

It would be like putting in a 6dB or larger spike in your EQ at 45hz, or cranking your bass boost up. If you like this that's perfectly fine, just don't say you're going for a SQ setup if you do ;).

you wont get a 6dB spike since with a 100% effency ported enclosure you only get 3dB per port...i dont use Eq's to get a flat responce...i use the Eq for a rock set up...higher from 40-120Hz and then slowly drop off a slightly quieter mid then a slightly louder last 1 1/2 octave (5,000-10,000Hz and 10,000-20,000Hz)

CBFryman, stop arguing with people that know what there talking about (and I'm not just talking about this tread either...)

It would be like putting in a 6dB or larger spike in your EQ at 45hz, or cranking your bass boost up. If you like this that's perfectly fine, just don't say you're going for a SQ setup if you do

Agreed.

you wont get a 6dB spike since with a 100% effency ported enclosure you only get 3dB per port...

you really don't know what you're talking about do you?

a ported enclosure will give a ~3dB increase over sealed for most frequencies, however around the tuning frequency the output of a ported box is MUCH higher than a sealed box, 6-10dB in many cases. Play around a little with WinISD or any other enclosure modeling program

no you really odnt know what yo uare talking about....how are you going to amplify the energy coming form the back of the cone 2 or more times.... @100% effency the back of the cones sound energy being reflected through a columb of air known as a port will have a 3dB jump or in otherwords twice the sound energy of just the front of hte cone moving back and forth...learn some physics....

PS
you may have a 6dB jump inside of a vehicle but this is due to sound reflection....in an open air invironment (which is where woofers and enclosure should be tested and rated) where waves can not reflect back to the mic. a 3dB tops at any frequincy above the resonant frequincy of the woffer and above the tuned frequincy of the enclosue...so if the resonant frequincy of hte woofer is 32Hz and the enclosure is tuned to 40Hz and frequincy above 40Hz@100% effency in an open air environment will see a 3dB gain over the same woofer in the same sized sealed enclosure.

Why do you keep bringing up box efficiency? The box doesn't have an efficiency....efficiency comes when you convert one form of power into another (such as electrical to electrical in an amplifier, or electrical to acoustical in a speaker), the box doesn't convert anything, it has no efficiency. Now it can raise and lower the speaker's efficiency, but who says you can't increase the speaker's efficiency more than 100%? Why can't you raise the speaker's efficiency from 1% to 2 or even 3% by changing the box?

You keep thinking of a ported box in the ideal sense, where it delays the signal coming off the rear of the speaker by a certain amount, so by the time it leaves the port it's partially in phase with the front wave. The thing is, when you approach the tuning frequency, a ported box is not ideal, it doesn't follow this perfectly anymore. Without going into the details of acoustics, since you wouldn't listen to me anyway, here are 2 graphs that I can't believe I wasted my time with since you're just going to ignore them because everyone who disagrees with you is inherently wrong. These are both of the same sub (adire brahma 12), in the same size ported box, and both of these are anechoic responses (no room, no car, nothing). The only difference is the first one has a 24hz tuning frequency and the 2nd one has a 45hz tuning frequency. The red line is the 0dB response, basically if it followed this line you would have a perfectly flat response.

24hz tuning frequency, max .8dB rise at 44hz
http://www.resnet.trinity.edu/areynol1/hosting/24hz.jpg

45hz tuning frequency, max 9.3dB rise at 49hz
http://www.resnet.trinity.edu/areynol1/hosting/45hz.jpg

all I can say is wow ........ I just hope this guy doesn't seriously hurt himself before he wakes up and realizes he really doesn't know much.

Why do you keep bringing up box efficiency? The box doesn't have an efficiency....efficiency comes when you convert one form of power into another (such as electrical to electrical in an amplifier, or electrical to acoustical in a speaker), the box doesn't convert anything, it has no efficiency. Now it can raise and lower the speaker's efficiency, but who says you can't increase the speaker's efficiency more than 100%? Why can't you raise the speaker's efficiency from 1% to 2 or even 3% by changing the box?

You keep thinking of a ported box in the ideal sense, where it delays the signal coming off the rear of the speaker by a certain amount, so by the time it leaves the port it's partially in phase with the front wave. The thing is, when you approach the tuning frequency, a ported box is not ideal, it doesn't follow this perfectly anymore. Without going into the details of acoustics, since you wouldn't listen to me anyway, here are 2 graphs that I can't believe I wasted my time with since you're just going to ignore them because everyone who disagrees with you is inherently wrong. These are both of the same sub (adire brahma 12), in the same size ported box, and both of these are anechoic responses (no room, no car, nothing). The only difference is the first one has a 24hz tuning frequency and the 2nd one has a 45hz tuning frequency. The red line is the 0dB response, basically if it followed this line you would have a perfectly flat response.

24hz tuning frequency, max .8dB rise at 44hz
http://www.resnet.trinity.edu/areynol1/hosting/24hz.jpg

45hz tuning frequency, max 9.3dB rise at 49hz
http://www.resnet.trinity.edu/areynol1/hosting/45hz.jpg


I know all of this...but what your forgetting is the resonant frequincy of the vehicle...for such a small volume (cab of a truck) resonany frequincy is going to be well over 45Hz...so there is going to be a peak there also...when i say SQ i dont mean for comp...i mean SQ for hte type of music i liten to...Rock and some rap...a flat bass responce (40-100Hz) is good for both unless of corse you like booming bass while listening to rock in which case a bandpass enclosure would be in order, but i dont an i like the sound of a ported enclosure...and since we aere going to have a peak in bass responce (i know the resonant frequincy in a blazer is near 55Hz so in a truck probably around 70Hz but im not sure) near a whole octave higher it will sound much better to my ears...you see im planing ahead...now that i have explained to you why i want 40-45 Hz tuneing i will have to figure out how the hell im going to keep up in hte 200-300Hz range at which point it can fall off and then pick back up around 1000-2000Hz..... :eek7:

Where do you think you are going to low pass it at?
I still don't understand the high tuning. If you are running a sub at 45hz you will miss some of the lows of the rap and/or rock music. Some people suggest even running their subs lowpassed at about 50hz, which would leave you about 10hz of music from the sub

I know all of this...but what your forgetting is the resonant frequincy of the vehicle...for such a small volume (cab of a truck) resonany frequincy is going to be well over 45Hz...so there is going to be a peak there also...when i say SQ i dont mean for comp...i mean SQ for hte type of music i liten to...Rock and some rap...a flat bass responce (40-100Hz) is good for both unless of corse you like booming bass while listening to rock in which case a bandpass enclosure would be in order, but i dont an i like the sound of a ported enclosure...and since we aere going to have a peak in bass responce (i know the resonant frequincy in a blazer is near 55Hz so in a truck probably around 70Hz but im not sure) near a whole octave higher it will sound much better to my ears...you see im planing ahead...now that i have explained to you why i want 40-45 Hz tuneing i will have to figure out how the hell im going to keep up in hte 200-300Hz range at which point it can fall off and then pick back up around 1000-2000Hz..... :eek7:

You still don't get it do you? I even posted those response graphs and you still aren't understanding. Tuning at 45hz WILL NOT give you a flat response from 45hz and up, you might be able to get a relatively flat response from 80-90hz and up, but since we're talking about subwoofers that's useless since it'll be lowpassed at ~80 anyway. Below 80hz you get a huge spike, NOT FLAT. Throw in the cab's resonance around 55-60hz and the cabin gain below and the spike is even larger. And despite what you obviously think, there is plenty of info in rock songs below 40-45hz, I have several songs that I've measured hitting in the high 20's. You probably won't believe me because anyone that disagrees with you is automatically wrong (probably something to do with being 15 and thinking that you know everything, I went through that phase too, luckily I grew out of it and realized I don't know jack), but it's true.

Also, the 200-300hz region isn't very hard at all for mids to play, it's the 80-100hz area that mids have difficulty keeping up with a sub. That all depends on the mids though.

yeah, I wnt through the I know everything phase. It is nice to admit you don't know jack.

low pass at 100Hz....and sr20de4evr i know yo uare right in most applications...but i like my dounds different....a flat responce to me sounds like talking through cardboard...i dont care about a truely flat responce...i care about what i like....thus what i am doing....my system is about me...not what other people think sounds good....if i was looking at doing this in a larger vehicle i woud probably tune to about 30Hz....cross it over at 60-80...and if i was looking for a truely flat responce i would tune to 28Hz and cross it over at 50-60Hz....ive done installs tuned to 25Hz and crossed over at 40Hz.... then we had a low midbass and regular mid bass...for the low midbass we used 8's crossed over at 160 and had another high pass cross over at 35Hz.....then had the normal 6.5's and tweets from 155 up....had a flat-as-a board responce but i didnt like the way it sounded....i like the boom with out the "boom"...well lol not like that but maybe you get what i mean....anyway i have a 24dB and octave active eclipse EQ that ive been waiting to use....so if i F*** up then ill build another box and/or (depending on how bad) make the corections with the EQ...even though i know EQ corrections often sound distorted....ive installed many-a-system for my age and ive herd many many a system...some of the best that i like where 3 solobaric L7 15's in 3cuft ported each enclosures tuned to 38Hz with JL componet sets...this was in a '95 silverado...and 1 alpine 8" in a 6th order bandpass 1.4cuft in each compartment in a CRX with Crystal audio componets....the CRX was amazing because usually thoes hatches (for whatever reason) amplify any port noise by like 5 times...but you could barely hear this port...i dont know what the box was tuned to because i didnt help install it but i did listen to it so i know i liked it...and i usually dont like the sound of band bass....

if you aint gonna listen, then don't ask a question. you dont even drive anyway......

low pass at 100Hz....and sr20de4evr i know yo uare right in most applications...but i like my dounds different....a flat responce to me sounds like talking through cardboard...i dont care about a truely flat responce...i care about what i like....thus what i am doing....my system is about me...not what other people think sounds good....if i was looking at doing this in a larger vehicle i woud probably tune to about 30Hz....cross it over at 60-80...and if i was looking for a truely flat responce i would tune to 28Hz and cross it over at 50-60Hz....ive done installs tuned to 25Hz and crossed over at 40Hz.... then we had a low midbass and regular mid bass...for the low midbass we used 8's crossed over at 160 and had another high pass cross over at 35Hz.....then had the normal 6.5's and tweets from 155 up....had a flat-as-a board responce but i didnt like the way it sounded....i like the boom with out the "boom"...well lol not like that but maybe you get what i mean....anyway i have a 24dB and octave active eclipse EQ that ive been waiting to use....so if i F*** up then ill build another box and/or (depending on how bad) make the corections with the EQ...even though i know EQ corrections often sound distorted....ive installed many-a-system for my age and ive herd many many a system...some of the best that i like where 3 solobaric L7 15's in 3cuft ported each enclosures tuned to 38Hz with JL componet sets...this was in a '95 silverado...and 1 alpine 8" in a 6th order bandpass 1.4cuft in each compartment in a CRX with Crystal audio componets....the CRX was amazing because usually thoes hatches (for whatever reason) amplify any port noise by like 5 times...but you could barely hear this port...i dont know what the box was tuned to because i didnt help install it but i did listen to it so i know i liked it...and i usually dont like the sound of band bass....
OBVIOUSLY you are an spl fan, admit it, don't try to push yourself off as a SQ man...

if you aint gonna listen, then don't ask a question. you dont even drive anyway......

as i quote myself

''Im pretty set on the crystal audio mids/highs...later i may upgrade the midbass woofer to DDw6.5's but that is once i become un happy with the above listed...i was thinking of going with DD3500 series but the amps that thoes puppies deserve to be fed with are way out of my pricerange at the time. I want a head unit that i can turn all the way up and spal thoes RCA cables into an ocilioscope and not see any clipping or distortion....but thoes type units are also out of my price range...if you have any questions/comments/suggestions e-mail me or just reply "

none of you have added any suggestions....just trying to make me look like i have never done any stereo work...i know what i like....when i said suggestions i ment on woofers....questions i have answeared comments have all been "your wrong" when im right when it comes to what i like

oh ya and im tired of arguing...its poinless...like running the special olympics...we're all retards... :chair: :sadwavey:

You are the only retard. I am sure a few agree.

You are the only retard. I am sure a few agree.
dude get off it

well don't call us all retards and act like you know everything.

im not acting like i know every thing....just like you dont know everything...no one knows everything....like i said get off it

If you want SQ don't tune to 40 or 45hz, it's as simple as that

not necessarily true...

<--- doesn't know jack ....... and not afraid to admit it