First time welder
artistic
08-22-2004, 12:56 AM
Hi, I'm new to welding and I have some questions. First off what is the difference between mig welding and tig? Or are those just brand names?
I'm looking to buy a welder that isnt too much money,and will be good for body work on cars,for example, If I was repairing a quarter panel that was rusty, or something car related like that. I also want it strong enough to weld a go kart frame. I'm from canada and I heard that princess auto sells welders. Can someone help me? - Andrew
I'm looking to buy a welder that isnt too much money,and will be good for body work on cars,for example, If I was repairing a quarter panel that was rusty, or something car related like that. I also want it strong enough to weld a go kart frame. I'm from canada and I heard that princess auto sells welders. Can someone help me? - Andrew
mike@af
08-22-2004, 09:18 AM
Im going to research my PM's for you. I had sent this info to someone already.
MIG a TIG welding are two different things, they both weld metal, but they both weld metal in a different way. One is easier, the other takes years of practice. One can be done quickly, the other takes a little longer. One is used to weld thicker metals, one is used to weld thinner metals. One is used to make good looking welds, one is used to make welds. Here I will describe the infinite differences.
MIG Welding/GMAW
MIG welding is a process in which there is an electrode filler wire being added to the two metals at a constant rate. MIG welding stands for Metal Inert Gas. MIG welding is also known as GMAW, Gas Metal Arc Welding. There is an arc to create the heat, the electrode is between the arc and does not melt until it touches the metal work. There is also spray MIG welding which is when tiny droplets are "sprayed" onto the piece for welding thin metals. Dont worry about spray welding, its a tricky process that I dont feel like explaining.
The basics. With MIG welding there is a "gun" in which the arc is created, the inert gas comes out, and the elctrode is dispensed. The electrode is being fed out of the gun when the trigger is pressed and is being fed at a constant rate (ipm, inches per minute). The electrode is being dispensed out of the contact tip part of the gun, the contact tip creates the arc. The inert gas is a sheilding gas, usually a 30% Argon 70% CO2 mixture. There is also a sheilding gas, described below.
Sheilding gas/electrode wire/flux cored wire.The sheilding gas does exactly what its called, sheilds. The gas sheilds the arc, electrode, and puddle to create a nice clean weld (as long as you have practiced the weld will be clean, just because you welded something with sheilding gas doesnt make it clean) hence the name, sheilding gas. When using sheilding gas you need to weld indoors, otherwise the gas can be blown away. When using sheilding gas the welding wire (electrode) is usually much thinner, .025 diameter. Thus being able to weld thinner metals, thin as 24Gage. So you dont want sheilding gas? If you dont want to use sheilding gas there is an alternative, flux cored wire. The flux cored wire has a flux in it that substitutes as sheilding gas. However there are disadvantages. The thinnest metal weldable with flux cored is 22gage. The weld wire is also thicker, usually .035-.040 diameter.
What can be welded with MIG? Steel, thats usually what MIG is used for. It can be used with Stainless Steel, alloy steels, steel, and aluminum (welding aluminum is harder than contacting Igor). Steels are partial alloys. 4130 is the most commonly used steel (4 type of steel/chromoly, 1%alloy, .30% Molybdenum). Steel is easily welded weather you making a table, or a car. Stainless is a little trickier to weld. Aluminum requires a conversion kit and is tricky to weld. There are different electrode wires for each type of metal.
MIG Welding uses. The best thing about MIG is the fact that its wire fed. You can tack weld things in a snap with just a press of the trigger. You can also run super strong (16,000+lb tensile strength) beads. With MIG welding you can do coining as well. You can build pretty much anything with a MIG welder. Most of all, MIG welding is easy to learn.
TIG Welding/GTAW
TIG Welding is also known as GTAW. TIG stands for Tungsten Inert Gas, GTAW stands for Gas Tungsten Arc Welding. TIG is very tricky, and requires years of practice to master. TIG requires the torch that create the arc in one hand, with the filler rod in the other. The arc is created with the torch, and the filler is added to the work with the other hand.
The Basics. TIG welding uses a "torch" instead of a gun, its not a gas torch, but an electric torch. The parts of the torch are the similar to MIG, nozzle in which the sheilding gas comes out, electrode is tungsten (but not added to the filler) and thats about it. Instead of being controled by a setting on the power unit and pressing a trigger, the amperage from the torch is varied with a foot pedal, just like a car.
How It Works. The torch creates an arc between the tungsten electrode and the work (which is grounded). When the arc is initiated the filler rod is added. Remember this is a two handed process. The sheilding gas is surrounding the puddle and arc, and serves the same purpose as MIG welding. The sheilding gas for TIG welding is a must, without it there is not a good weld, if a weld at all. The sheilding gas is pure Argon.
Applications. TIG welding can do almost everything MIG does, and more. However, TIG welding is a lot harder, and not something for beginners. TIG welding is used to weld thinner metals, and aluminum. However when welding thin metals make sure the TIG welder doesnt have a high amp starter, otherwise it will blow a hole right through. You can weld steels with TIG, as well as aluminum (aluminum is much harder to weld than steel).
The end...have questions, ask away.
I suggest going ahead and getting a quality MIG welder. It will cost you a little more. But spending $400USD-$600USD will save you in the long run. Also if you arent into spend a lot of money to start out get a FluxCored/MIG welder. I suggest a Lincoln Electric 135 or Lincoln Electric 175.
MIG a TIG welding are two different things, they both weld metal, but they both weld metal in a different way. One is easier, the other takes years of practice. One can be done quickly, the other takes a little longer. One is used to weld thicker metals, one is used to weld thinner metals. One is used to make good looking welds, one is used to make welds. Here I will describe the infinite differences.
MIG Welding/GMAW
MIG welding is a process in which there is an electrode filler wire being added to the two metals at a constant rate. MIG welding stands for Metal Inert Gas. MIG welding is also known as GMAW, Gas Metal Arc Welding. There is an arc to create the heat, the electrode is between the arc and does not melt until it touches the metal work. There is also spray MIG welding which is when tiny droplets are "sprayed" onto the piece for welding thin metals. Dont worry about spray welding, its a tricky process that I dont feel like explaining.
The basics. With MIG welding there is a "gun" in which the arc is created, the inert gas comes out, and the elctrode is dispensed. The electrode is being fed out of the gun when the trigger is pressed and is being fed at a constant rate (ipm, inches per minute). The electrode is being dispensed out of the contact tip part of the gun, the contact tip creates the arc. The inert gas is a sheilding gas, usually a 30% Argon 70% CO2 mixture. There is also a sheilding gas, described below.
Sheilding gas/electrode wire/flux cored wire.The sheilding gas does exactly what its called, sheilds. The gas sheilds the arc, electrode, and puddle to create a nice clean weld (as long as you have practiced the weld will be clean, just because you welded something with sheilding gas doesnt make it clean) hence the name, sheilding gas. When using sheilding gas you need to weld indoors, otherwise the gas can be blown away. When using sheilding gas the welding wire (electrode) is usually much thinner, .025 diameter. Thus being able to weld thinner metals, thin as 24Gage. So you dont want sheilding gas? If you dont want to use sheilding gas there is an alternative, flux cored wire. The flux cored wire has a flux in it that substitutes as sheilding gas. However there are disadvantages. The thinnest metal weldable with flux cored is 22gage. The weld wire is also thicker, usually .035-.040 diameter.
What can be welded with MIG? Steel, thats usually what MIG is used for. It can be used with Stainless Steel, alloy steels, steel, and aluminum (welding aluminum is harder than contacting Igor). Steels are partial alloys. 4130 is the most commonly used steel (4 type of steel/chromoly, 1%alloy, .30% Molybdenum). Steel is easily welded weather you making a table, or a car. Stainless is a little trickier to weld. Aluminum requires a conversion kit and is tricky to weld. There are different electrode wires for each type of metal.
MIG Welding uses. The best thing about MIG is the fact that its wire fed. You can tack weld things in a snap with just a press of the trigger. You can also run super strong (16,000+lb tensile strength) beads. With MIG welding you can do coining as well. You can build pretty much anything with a MIG welder. Most of all, MIG welding is easy to learn.
TIG Welding/GTAW
TIG Welding is also known as GTAW. TIG stands for Tungsten Inert Gas, GTAW stands for Gas Tungsten Arc Welding. TIG is very tricky, and requires years of practice to master. TIG requires the torch that create the arc in one hand, with the filler rod in the other. The arc is created with the torch, and the filler is added to the work with the other hand.
The Basics. TIG welding uses a "torch" instead of a gun, its not a gas torch, but an electric torch. The parts of the torch are the similar to MIG, nozzle in which the sheilding gas comes out, electrode is tungsten (but not added to the filler) and thats about it. Instead of being controled by a setting on the power unit and pressing a trigger, the amperage from the torch is varied with a foot pedal, just like a car.
How It Works. The torch creates an arc between the tungsten electrode and the work (which is grounded). When the arc is initiated the filler rod is added. Remember this is a two handed process. The sheilding gas is surrounding the puddle and arc, and serves the same purpose as MIG welding. The sheilding gas for TIG welding is a must, without it there is not a good weld, if a weld at all. The sheilding gas is pure Argon.
Applications. TIG welding can do almost everything MIG does, and more. However, TIG welding is a lot harder, and not something for beginners. TIG welding is used to weld thinner metals, and aluminum. However when welding thin metals make sure the TIG welder doesnt have a high amp starter, otherwise it will blow a hole right through. You can weld steels with TIG, as well as aluminum (aluminum is much harder to weld than steel).
The end...have questions, ask away.
I suggest going ahead and getting a quality MIG welder. It will cost you a little more. But spending $400USD-$600USD will save you in the long run. Also if you arent into spend a lot of money to start out get a FluxCored/MIG welder. I suggest a Lincoln Electric 135 or Lincoln Electric 175.
TheSilentChamber
08-22-2004, 08:53 PM
^^^ eh i'm sure what he said is right, I didnt read it all because eh... ...
but I would start out with a fluxcore that is upgradeable to true MIG. 75/25 argon co2 "golden gas" works good for body work.
but I would start out with a fluxcore that is upgradeable to true MIG. 75/25 argon co2 "golden gas" works good for body work.
Cbass
08-22-2004, 10:52 PM
Im going to research my PM's for you. I had sent this info to someone already.
MIG a TIG welding are two different things, they both weld metal, but they both weld metal in a different way. One is easier, the other takes years of practice. One can be done quickly, the other takes a little longer. One is used to weld thicker metals, one is used to weld thinner metals. One is used to make good looking welds, one is used to make welds. Here I will describe the infinite differences.
Hey, MIG welds can be pretty too ;) MIG is used for thinner metals too, although not as thin as what TIG is good for. MIG welding is generally good for 1/4" and thinner, thicker than that is stick work for sure.
MIG Welding/GMAW
MIG welding is a process in which there is an electrode filler wire being added to the two metals at a constant rate. MIG welding stands for Metal Inert Gas. MIG welding is also known as GMAW, Gas Metal Arc Welding. There is an arc to create the heat, the electrode is between the arc and does not melt until it touches the metal work. There is also spray MIG welding which is when tiny droplets are "sprayed" onto the piece for welding thin metals. Dont worry about spray welding, its a tricky process that I dont feel like explaining.
The basics. With MIG welding there is a "gun" in which the arc is created, the inert gas comes out, and the elctrode is dispensed. The electrode is being fed out of the gun when the trigger is pressed and is being fed at a constant rate (ipm, inches per minute). The electrode is being dispensed out of the contact tip part of the gun, the contact tip creates the arc. The inert gas is a sheilding gas, usually a 30% Argon 70% CO2 mixture. There is also a sheilding gas, described below.
That's kinda a tricky way of explaining it... The contact tip provides current to the wire, and the arc is between the wire and the weld puddle. Because the wire is fed by an electric spool, you just have to move the gun along, and it will push the wire into the puddle.
Sheilding gas/electrode wire/flux cored wire.The sheilding gas does exactly what its called, sheilds. The gas sheilds the arc, electrode, and puddle to create a nice clean weld (as long as you have practiced the weld will be clean, just because you welded something with sheilding gas doesnt make it clean) hence the name, sheilding gas. When using sheilding gas you need to weld indoors, otherwise the gas can be blown away. When using sheilding gas the welding wire (electrode) is usually much thinner, .025 diameter. Thus being able to weld thinner metals, thin as 24Gage. So you dont want sheilding gas? If you dont want to use sheilding gas there is an alternative, flux cored wire. The flux cored wire has a flux in it that substitutes as sheilding gas. However there are disadvantages. The thinnest metal weldable with flux cored is 22gage. The weld wire is also thicker, usually .035-.040 diameter.
As for the shielding gas, it really depends on what you're welding. For aluminum, you usually want pure argon, although depending on the thickness of the metal, you may want to use an argon/oxy or argon/helium mix. CO2 is an excellent gas for doing thicker guage sheet, because of it's better penetration properties. It's also really cheap, which is good when you can't afford a big bottle of better gas. Probably the best gas for welding thin guage mild steel like you'll find in autobody work, or doing mild tube steel for making chassis is a low argon high CO2 mix, like a 30/70 as Mike pointed out.
Flux core is a good economical way to go, but it produces a "rougher" weld than a microwire with a gas will produce. It's hard to explain, but the fluxcore wires just don't burn as smoothly, you get more spatter, etc, and when you're done there is a lot of slag left over that you have to chip away. Flux core's true advantages lie in welding plate steel, it's faster than stick and provides good penetration.
Flux core wire would do fine for your tube steel, but I'd be wary of using it to do thing guage metal, especially as a novice, you'll tend to burn holes more often than with a microwire.
What can be welded with MIG? Steel, thats usually what MIG is used for. It can be used with Stainless Steel, alloy steels, steel, and aluminum (welding aluminum is harder than contacting Igor). Steels are partial alloys. 4130 is the most commonly used steel (4 type of steel/chromoly, 1%alloy, .30% Molybdenum). Steel is easily welded weather you making a table, or a car. Stainless is a little trickier to weld. Aluminum requires a conversion kit and is tricky to weld. There are different electrode wires for each type of metal.
I never found MIG welding aluminum all that tricky, you just have to be very careful about your travel speed and smoothness... When I first started welding the stuff, I was working with a pound gun that was havin issues feeding the wire, and at maximum wire speed the thing wouldn't feed nearly enough wire! I was tearing my hair out trying to figure out what I was doing wrong, show it to the instructor, he runs a few passes and says "that gun is fucked!". Good times :iceslolan
My advice is don't tackle aluminum or stainless until you've got MIG welding mild steel sheet downpat. Mild steel is very forgiving, aluminum and high alloy steels are not.
MIG Welding uses. The best thing about MIG is the fact that its wire fed. You can tack weld things in a snap with just a press of the trigger. You can also run super strong (16,000+lb tensile strength) beads. With MIG welding you can do coining as well. You can build pretty much anything with a MIG welder. Most of all, MIG welding is easy to learn.
I can't agree with you enough on this one :D
MIG is definately the best way to go for what you want, I'd steer clear of flux core and just spend the extra bucks on the MIG machine to start with.
MIG a TIG welding are two different things, they both weld metal, but they both weld metal in a different way. One is easier, the other takes years of practice. One can be done quickly, the other takes a little longer. One is used to weld thicker metals, one is used to weld thinner metals. One is used to make good looking welds, one is used to make welds. Here I will describe the infinite differences.
Hey, MIG welds can be pretty too ;) MIG is used for thinner metals too, although not as thin as what TIG is good for. MIG welding is generally good for 1/4" and thinner, thicker than that is stick work for sure.
MIG Welding/GMAW
MIG welding is a process in which there is an electrode filler wire being added to the two metals at a constant rate. MIG welding stands for Metal Inert Gas. MIG welding is also known as GMAW, Gas Metal Arc Welding. There is an arc to create the heat, the electrode is between the arc and does not melt until it touches the metal work. There is also spray MIG welding which is when tiny droplets are "sprayed" onto the piece for welding thin metals. Dont worry about spray welding, its a tricky process that I dont feel like explaining.
The basics. With MIG welding there is a "gun" in which the arc is created, the inert gas comes out, and the elctrode is dispensed. The electrode is being fed out of the gun when the trigger is pressed and is being fed at a constant rate (ipm, inches per minute). The electrode is being dispensed out of the contact tip part of the gun, the contact tip creates the arc. The inert gas is a sheilding gas, usually a 30% Argon 70% CO2 mixture. There is also a sheilding gas, described below.
That's kinda a tricky way of explaining it... The contact tip provides current to the wire, and the arc is between the wire and the weld puddle. Because the wire is fed by an electric spool, you just have to move the gun along, and it will push the wire into the puddle.
Sheilding gas/electrode wire/flux cored wire.The sheilding gas does exactly what its called, sheilds. The gas sheilds the arc, electrode, and puddle to create a nice clean weld (as long as you have practiced the weld will be clean, just because you welded something with sheilding gas doesnt make it clean) hence the name, sheilding gas. When using sheilding gas you need to weld indoors, otherwise the gas can be blown away. When using sheilding gas the welding wire (electrode) is usually much thinner, .025 diameter. Thus being able to weld thinner metals, thin as 24Gage. So you dont want sheilding gas? If you dont want to use sheilding gas there is an alternative, flux cored wire. The flux cored wire has a flux in it that substitutes as sheilding gas. However there are disadvantages. The thinnest metal weldable with flux cored is 22gage. The weld wire is also thicker, usually .035-.040 diameter.
As for the shielding gas, it really depends on what you're welding. For aluminum, you usually want pure argon, although depending on the thickness of the metal, you may want to use an argon/oxy or argon/helium mix. CO2 is an excellent gas for doing thicker guage sheet, because of it's better penetration properties. It's also really cheap, which is good when you can't afford a big bottle of better gas. Probably the best gas for welding thin guage mild steel like you'll find in autobody work, or doing mild tube steel for making chassis is a low argon high CO2 mix, like a 30/70 as Mike pointed out.
Flux core is a good economical way to go, but it produces a "rougher" weld than a microwire with a gas will produce. It's hard to explain, but the fluxcore wires just don't burn as smoothly, you get more spatter, etc, and when you're done there is a lot of slag left over that you have to chip away. Flux core's true advantages lie in welding plate steel, it's faster than stick and provides good penetration.
Flux core wire would do fine for your tube steel, but I'd be wary of using it to do thing guage metal, especially as a novice, you'll tend to burn holes more often than with a microwire.
What can be welded with MIG? Steel, thats usually what MIG is used for. It can be used with Stainless Steel, alloy steels, steel, and aluminum (welding aluminum is harder than contacting Igor). Steels are partial alloys. 4130 is the most commonly used steel (4 type of steel/chromoly, 1%alloy, .30% Molybdenum). Steel is easily welded weather you making a table, or a car. Stainless is a little trickier to weld. Aluminum requires a conversion kit and is tricky to weld. There are different electrode wires for each type of metal.
I never found MIG welding aluminum all that tricky, you just have to be very careful about your travel speed and smoothness... When I first started welding the stuff, I was working with a pound gun that was havin issues feeding the wire, and at maximum wire speed the thing wouldn't feed nearly enough wire! I was tearing my hair out trying to figure out what I was doing wrong, show it to the instructor, he runs a few passes and says "that gun is fucked!". Good times :iceslolan
My advice is don't tackle aluminum or stainless until you've got MIG welding mild steel sheet downpat. Mild steel is very forgiving, aluminum and high alloy steels are not.
MIG Welding uses. The best thing about MIG is the fact that its wire fed. You can tack weld things in a snap with just a press of the trigger. You can also run super strong (16,000+lb tensile strength) beads. With MIG welding you can do coining as well. You can build pretty much anything with a MIG welder. Most of all, MIG welding is easy to learn.
I can't agree with you enough on this one :D
MIG is definately the best way to go for what you want, I'd steer clear of flux core and just spend the extra bucks on the MIG machine to start with.
duplox
08-23-2004, 01:28 AM
:iagree:
artistic
08-23-2004, 01:33 AM
Thanks for the help guys, I guess im gonna go with a mig.
artistic
08-31-2004, 06:47 PM
I was looking at mig welders for sale online at princessauto, and there's one for 399. It says gas only, so does this mean I have to buy it, and a gas tank too?
mike@af
08-31-2004, 06:52 PM
Yes. Gas only means its not capable of flux cored. Some areas will require that you have one tank for Argon/CO2 and another tank for Argon. Check with your local welding supply for the mandates.
You will have to buy the tank. They range any where from $80USD-$300USD.
You will have to buy the tank. They range any where from $80USD-$300USD.
TheSilentChamber
09-01-2004, 01:23 AM
most places let you rent tanks insted of buying them.
mike@af
09-01-2004, 04:49 PM
most places let you rent tanks insted of buying them.
Correct, but you still have to put a down payment of roughly $100USD (pending on place and tank size, and type of gas) usually.
Correct, but you still have to put a down payment of roughly $100USD (pending on place and tank size, and type of gas) usually.
TheSilentChamber
09-01-2004, 06:41 PM
true.
CBFryman
09-04-2004, 02:11 PM
What about Heli Arc welding and Oxygen Actelene Welding...Im not sure about heli arc welding...my dad has a heli arc weldind machen in the agarage that nither of us ever uses...we have a crappy 70amp MIG welder...i normally use flux core wire simply because i have nowhere to weld where there isnt at least a slight breeze strong nough to blow the sheild gas away....we have everything to Oxygen actelene weld with but my dad never uses it and i just use it as a torch when we run out of butane...lol...on top of oxygen acelene welding is not as strong as Mig, Tig, or heli arc welding....what im wondering about is Plasma Cutters...why hte hell are they so expensive...im getting tired of trying to make precice cuts with a Jig saw or saw zaw....im also wondering about metal fabrication "kits" we have the basic bapien hammer and all do to basic auto body work...but im looking to start a chopper project...i know im going to need more than just a baulpien hammer and blocks....also...what is a good price for a bead roller???
mike@af
09-04-2004, 02:44 PM
Oxy-Acetylene welding, is very hard to do, not strong, unequal penetration, ugly, and brings up a lot of slag/impurities. Oxy-Acetylene can definately ruin the chemical composition of a steel.
Heli-arc is alright, better than Oxy-Acetylene.
You want precise cuts with a plasma cutter? Plasma cuts are often very rough and still require shaping with a cutting wheel, its just easier and quicker.
There are not many fabrication kits out there. Most of them are sold seperately.
If you are highly intrested in building a chopper I suggest you take some classes on welding, and also get an apprenticeship with a body shop.
Bead-rollers usually start around $300USD. I think you need other tools more importantly though. I have a roller that I barely use.
Heli-arc is alright, better than Oxy-Acetylene.
You want precise cuts with a plasma cutter? Plasma cuts are often very rough and still require shaping with a cutting wheel, its just easier and quicker.
There are not many fabrication kits out there. Most of them are sold seperately.
If you are highly intrested in building a chopper I suggest you take some classes on welding, and also get an apprenticeship with a body shop.
Bead-rollers usually start around $300USD. I think you need other tools more importantly though. I have a roller that I barely use.
CBFryman
09-04-2004, 03:54 PM
I am actually working at a shop called One Stop that does minor body work, bolt on performance, and car audio.... and i have started messin around with 22awg sheet steel from Lowes just to get a feel for it...ive actually made and riveted a gas tank...its a lil rough and hasnt been soldered or welded or sealed in anyway at all....just riveted...it would actualyl look kinda nice leaded an placed on an old skool bike...as for the bead roller i was J/W because i was looking at an early 2nd generation Rx-7 and the floor boards are rusted...
CBFryman
09-04-2004, 03:59 PM
oh ya and plasma cutters are alot cleaner than me trying to C-notch a frame with a sawzaw to install some bags...but i got it done....lol...sorry if i sound stupid...yesterday i had a pep rally, one of hte hardest cross country practices this season, a foot ball game, went to eat out at Beef'o'Brady's after the game, then went to a party....so ya your fon figure im pretty tired...just sitting here waiting for the hurricane
TheSilentChamber
09-04-2004, 04:06 PM
plasma arcs are very percise if you know how to use then and require very little or no dressing for a finished product.
CBFryman
09-04-2004, 04:22 PM
I beleive, from what i have gathered, that a plsama cutter doesnt even have an arc...its basicly a super concentrated Oxygen acetelene welder with an electrode in the acetelene gas flow to excite the atoms superheating it to a plasma state of matter.....but then agian my chemistry teacher could be wrong...
TheSilentChamber
09-04-2004, 05:52 PM
no theres an arc that melts the metal, the compressed air blows the molten metal away. If there was no arc you wouldnt have to wear a hood. Plasma also doesnt use acetelene it uses compressed air.
CBFryman
09-04-2004, 10:06 PM
LMAO...ok ya...the sun is mostly hydrogen and helium plasmas...you go ahead and stare at it for a few munites from 1 AU (atranomical unit) away....then see how well your rods and cones in your eyes are working....and i re-read how plasma cutters work....it is an arc...but the arc isnt what cuts the metal...its the heating of an inert gas...usually oxygen, nitrogen, or argon through a controlled channel...the gas is superheated to 30,000+ degrese at which point it is no longer considered a gas. it is considered a plasma...a fluid solid... http://science.howstuffworks.com/plasma-cutter.htm this link will explain everything...and if you dont beleive me about the plasma cutting the metal and not the arc go out and get a plasma cutter but dont use the gas...then hold the gun near the metal and push the trigger...a small spark will begin to arc fro mthe gun to the metal...almost like one of thoes static balls or a tesla coil...but hte metal doesnt mealt at all...it barely heats up...you need a gas to trun to plasma...
TheSilentChamber
09-04-2004, 10:53 PM
Where the fuck do these people come from...
CBFryman
09-05-2004, 09:52 AM
Florida...bored...damn hurricane needs to hurry up and flood here....the sun is shining right now...lol...but in about 5 mine we will get real havy rain then it will stop agian...hurricanes are pission me off....charley didnt een hit us at all, missed us by like 30 miles...but did you even read how plasma cutters work...the arc isnt what melts the metal...and it isnt compressed air...it has to be a nearly pure gas...if you used air the arc would form Ozone (i think ozone is 02N3 but im notabsolutely sure) instead of plasma because the oxygen would react with the nitrogen...trust me...i know my chemistry...
TheSilentChamber
09-05-2004, 05:13 PM
Plasma cutters use compressed air (from an air compressor), I dont have to read how they work because I the shop I used to work at had one that I used on a regular basis. Book learning isnt everything kid, you only know enough to look like a jackass that is repeating stuff he heard.
96TSi
09-05-2004, 05:56 PM
plasma cutters are for rich people anyways! :D whatever happened to the good ol cuttin torch that you always seemed to burn yourself even thought you wear all that protective shit.
mig/wire feed welding is my favorite, i have been welding for a couple years now and id say ive just about mastered the mig.
Im not sure where the guy in the first page came up with "mig is only good for thinner metals" but i will totally have to dissagree. i have welded anything from aluminum to cast with my mig, just gotta be carefull on your wire speed and your arc power
mig/wire feed welding is my favorite, i have been welding for a couple years now and id say ive just about mastered the mig.
Im not sure where the guy in the first page came up with "mig is only good for thinner metals" but i will totally have to dissagree. i have welded anything from aluminum to cast with my mig, just gotta be carefull on your wire speed and your arc power
mike@af
09-05-2004, 08:22 PM
plasma cutters are for rich people anyways! :D whatever happened to the good ol cuttin torch that you always seemed to burn yourself even thought you wear all that protective shit.
mig/wire feed welding is my favorite, i have been welding for a couple years now and id say ive just about mastered the mig.
Im not sure where the guy in the first page came up with "mig is only good for thinner metals" but i will totally have to dissagree. i have welded anything from aluminum to cast with my mig, just gotta be carefull on your wire speed and your arc power
I just searched the whole first page. Who said that? I thought you might have been talking about me, but I didnt see anything that said that.
mig/wire feed welding is my favorite, i have been welding for a couple years now and id say ive just about mastered the mig.
Im not sure where the guy in the first page came up with "mig is only good for thinner metals" but i will totally have to dissagree. i have welded anything from aluminum to cast with my mig, just gotta be carefull on your wire speed and your arc power
I just searched the whole first page. Who said that? I thought you might have been talking about me, but I didnt see anything that said that.
96TSi
09-06-2004, 02:49 AM
4th post from the top on the 1st page
TheSilentChamber
09-06-2004, 04:31 AM
Post was made by Cbass
96TSi
09-06-2004, 04:37 AM
^^what he said :D
Cbass
09-06-2004, 05:25 PM
MIG is best for metal from 20 gauge to 1/4", above 1/4" plate you should really be using stick or a heavy flux core wire, since you tend to get better penetration.
CBFryman is right, plasma cutters cut using superheated gas heated by an arc inside of the gun. The arc to the metal travels through the same orifice as the gas, superheating the gas along the way. Some plasma cutters conduct the electricity through the gun itself, like the one I've used. When I was going to school for my welding ticket, the instructor made a point of showing every student this. He'd ask for your glove, put the gun to it, and blow a nice little hole through the gauntlet.
The big advantage to a plasma cutter over a torch is that plasma cutting can be performed on non ferrous metals, especially stainless steel and aluminum that are impossible to cut with an oxy-fuel torch.
The Silent Chamber is right as well, plasma cutters are capable of some really sweet cuts if you get good enough with them. My guided cuts are pretty good, but I'm not as good with freehand yet. Then again, most of my cutting is done with oxy-fuel, although on the last job I worked on I had to cut a 20" 1/4" wall pipe that was coated on the inside, while laying in a big muddy hole. Because it was coated on the inside, there was no way to cut it with a torch, it would just spit back the melted slag, so I had to cut it with a 1/8th 6010 rod with 240 amps current... It took a while, but I managed to get it done, even though I only had about 4" of clearance underneath the pipe.
CBFryman is right, plasma cutters cut using superheated gas heated by an arc inside of the gun. The arc to the metal travels through the same orifice as the gas, superheating the gas along the way. Some plasma cutters conduct the electricity through the gun itself, like the one I've used. When I was going to school for my welding ticket, the instructor made a point of showing every student this. He'd ask for your glove, put the gun to it, and blow a nice little hole through the gauntlet.
The big advantage to a plasma cutter over a torch is that plasma cutting can be performed on non ferrous metals, especially stainless steel and aluminum that are impossible to cut with an oxy-fuel torch.
The Silent Chamber is right as well, plasma cutters are capable of some really sweet cuts if you get good enough with them. My guided cuts are pretty good, but I'm not as good with freehand yet. Then again, most of my cutting is done with oxy-fuel, although on the last job I worked on I had to cut a 20" 1/4" wall pipe that was coated on the inside, while laying in a big muddy hole. Because it was coated on the inside, there was no way to cut it with a torch, it would just spit back the melted slag, so I had to cut it with a 1/8th 6010 rod with 240 amps current... It took a while, but I managed to get it done, even though I only had about 4" of clearance underneath the pipe.
TheSilentChamber
09-06-2004, 07:48 PM
what kind of work did you used to do? I know a guy that used to do welding on live gas lines... He was telling me how they did it and stuff, he said its illegal to do it the way the used to when he did it (guess its against OSHA regulations or something). Cant believe hes still alive.
Cbass
09-08-2004, 03:26 AM
Right now I'm doing pipefitting, the last job I was on was a chlorination plant. There were two real parts to the pipe work involved, there was building with all the plumbing for the chlorine gas, that was all done with mechanical joints. The other part was about three hundred meters/yards of 42" and 30" pipe, all of which was welded. I got to learn a great deal about pipelining from the guy who was in charge of it all, he was a veteran of the nothern British Columbia and Albertan oil patch up here in Canada.
It was pretty simple welding really, pipe that big is fairly easy. Most of the joints were bell style fittings with one end of the pipe flared and fitting over an unflared end, because the bell allows greater flexibility of the pipe, you can adjust it back and forth a few degrees and get a lot of play to work with. It also means you can run a multibead fillet weld inside and out, which makes each joint go faster. Also, it leaves a gap in between the welds on the inside and the outside of the weld, which you can then pressure test, to see if the weld holds. If it doesn't, soapy water finds the leak easily enough, a quick weld repair and you're done.
By comparison, a butt weld takes forever!
I ended up having to cut that 20" pipe because we were going to lay the 30" pipe right through where it was running, so we had to remove a six meter chunk of it. The worst thing was, nobody had drained the pipe ahead of time, so we had to wait while it drained something to the order of ten thousand gallons of water, out into the hole we had dug around it, resulting in the mudpool. The B ticket pipeline welder tries cutting it for about five minutes, then looks at me, "you go cut it."
Good times :lol:
It was pretty simple welding really, pipe that big is fairly easy. Most of the joints were bell style fittings with one end of the pipe flared and fitting over an unflared end, because the bell allows greater flexibility of the pipe, you can adjust it back and forth a few degrees and get a lot of play to work with. It also means you can run a multibead fillet weld inside and out, which makes each joint go faster. Also, it leaves a gap in between the welds on the inside and the outside of the weld, which you can then pressure test, to see if the weld holds. If it doesn't, soapy water finds the leak easily enough, a quick weld repair and you're done.
By comparison, a butt weld takes forever!
I ended up having to cut that 20" pipe because we were going to lay the 30" pipe right through where it was running, so we had to remove a six meter chunk of it. The worst thing was, nobody had drained the pipe ahead of time, so we had to wait while it drained something to the order of ten thousand gallons of water, out into the hole we had dug around it, resulting in the mudpool. The B ticket pipeline welder tries cutting it for about five minutes, then looks at me, "you go cut it."
Good times :lol:
CBFryman
09-08-2004, 10:26 AM
:ylsuper:
artistic
09-19-2004, 07:04 PM
Have you guys heard of a welding brand called Deca? Princess auto carries them and they are from itally. They have also had 30 years of experience. The mig welder im looking at is 375 bucks. Are these any good?
artistic
09-28-2004, 08:46 PM
:feedback:
TheSilentChamber
10-02-2004, 10:35 PM
Never heard of them artistic.
I went and priced MIGs today. Found a lincon I'm thinking of getting for $400. Its pretty nice, comes with all regulators and hoses, just gotta buy/rent a tank.
I went and priced MIGs today. Found a lincon I'm thinking of getting for $400. Its pretty nice, comes with all regulators and hoses, just gotta buy/rent a tank.
artistic
10-04-2004, 09:12 PM
400 american or canadian?
TheSilentChamber
10-06-2004, 10:11 PM
USD american
RandomTask
10-09-2004, 10:28 PM
I actually learned to TIG weld first, takes a little but once you get the hang of it its pretty easy. After learning to TIG, I tried MIG and it was a piece of cake. I do think you forgot to mention that TIG is a stronger weld then MIG... just FYI
CBFryman
10-10-2004, 12:59 PM
a properly done tig weld also looks better ;) :iceslolan
mike@af
10-10-2004, 03:42 PM
a properly done tig weld also looks better ;) :iceslolan
I have friends that can coin with MIG pefectly. It also depends on the material you're welding.
I have friends that can coin with MIG pefectly. It also depends on the material you're welding.
duplox
10-10-2004, 07:00 PM
I have friends that can coin with MIG pefectly. It also depends on the material you're welding.
Coining with a mig if rediculously simple... Just keep tacking, space it out right and it looks perfect except for the last one which has the 'dimple' from tacking. It won't be as strong as one bead, but most of the time you don't need 100% strength.
Coining with a mig if rediculously simple... Just keep tacking, space it out right and it looks perfect except for the last one which has the 'dimple' from tacking. It won't be as strong as one bead, but most of the time you don't need 100% strength.
mike@af
10-11-2004, 10:27 AM
Coining with a mig if rediculously simple... Just keep tacking, space it out right and it looks perfect except for the last one which has the 'dimple' from tacking. It won't be as strong as one bead, but most of the time you don't need 100% strength.
I agree. Just aim, shoot, and drag. TIG is a little more tedious.
I agree. Just aim, shoot, and drag. TIG is a little more tedious.
MadMac56
12-16-2004, 01:20 AM
I think I've learned more about welding in this one thread than in 48 years of life...This thread should be stickied!
Wondering which type of welding is best for exhaust stuff, cats, mufflers, pipe???
Wondering which type of welding is best for exhaust stuff, cats, mufflers, pipe???
mike@af
12-16-2004, 08:17 AM
I think I've learned more about welding in this one thread than in 48 years of life...This thread should be stickied!
Wondering which type of welding is best for exhaust stuff, cats, mufflers, pipe???
Glad to help out man! I may just have to sticky it.
For exhaust systems I prefer TIG just because I can make it look better. However, currently Im welding up a Techtonics exhaust system for a friends VW, using a MIG welder. I'd prefer to use TIG but we're doing it at a location that doesnt have a TIG. So the MIG just needs to be adjusted properly. If you have some extra tubing from the exhaust system adjusting the heat and wirespeed on that scrap to check for penetration.
Wondering which type of welding is best for exhaust stuff, cats, mufflers, pipe???
Glad to help out man! I may just have to sticky it.
For exhaust systems I prefer TIG just because I can make it look better. However, currently Im welding up a Techtonics exhaust system for a friends VW, using a MIG welder. I'd prefer to use TIG but we're doing it at a location that doesnt have a TIG. So the MIG just needs to be adjusted properly. If you have some extra tubing from the exhaust system adjusting the heat and wirespeed on that scrap to check for penetration.
Cbass
12-27-2004, 01:01 AM
TIG would be preferrable for the absolute best weld on thin guage exhaust tube, especially if it's stainless. MIG will do the job quite handily though, although it won't look as pretty, and in theory you might get a little more weld metal poking through on teh other side of the joint.
MIG is much easier, and is what I'd recommend. It's what muffler shops use after all. It all depends what you want to do with it too, if you're just welding on a hanger, MIG is superior simply because it's faster. If you're joining square cut tube to a flange, MIG is once again faster and makes just as good a weld. If you're getting into custom fabrication of headers involving complex welds between two thin tube walls, TIG is a superior process hands down.
MIG is much easier, and is what I'd recommend. It's what muffler shops use after all. It all depends what you want to do with it too, if you're just welding on a hanger, MIG is superior simply because it's faster. If you're joining square cut tube to a flange, MIG is once again faster and makes just as good a weld. If you're getting into custom fabrication of headers involving complex welds between two thin tube walls, TIG is a superior process hands down.
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