Best B Series engine to turbo?

Hey everyone, what engine is best to turbo? I'm going to swap either a B18 or a B16 into my Civic, but I want to Turbo the engine. I have heard because of the compression ratio on the B18c5 that turbo'ing isn't very effective, so any feedback would help. This advice would basically finalise my engine decision for my swap in March. Thanx.

Originally posted by SlowAzzCivSE
Hey everyone, what engine is best to turbo? I'm going to swap either a B18 or a B16 into my Civic, but I want to Turbo the engine. I have heard because of the compression ratio on the B18c5 that turbo'ing isn't very effective, so any feedback would help. This advice would basically finalise my engine decision for my swap in March. Thanx.

It all depends on how extensive a buildup you are doing and what the car is being used for and the amount of money that you plan on spending.

BY DISPLACEMENT THE B18 CAN HANDLE THE BOOST BETTER.

Originally posted by inferno


It all depends on how extensive a buildup you are doing and what the car is being used for and the amount of money that you plan on spending.

Well I'm getting a 5th Gen Hatchback in March, sorry i should've said that earlier.

what purpose is this car going to serve? are you building a custom kit, buying a kit? how much boost do you want to run? are you gonna rebuild the engine? whats your budget?

these are all questions you need to think about,not a lot of help can be given untill you clue us in on your situation, then we'll be glad to help........ or criticize:D

LOL, sorry, as you can tell i'm not an expert in this area. It's going to be a daily driven car, but i also want it to run as fast as possible.. like 10s, 11s, 12s, whatever.. Basically it's going to be my project car for the next 2 years, so I'll make it as fast as it can go. Money's no problem so that issue won't hinder me one bit. Thanx for the replies.

well, you can get some wicked HP#s if you put in a b18c1 with a stage 3 revhard turbo kit. Don't quote me on this but I think the #s were around 350-400HP. BUT I think they did bottom end work on the block. LS engine can handle more boost like ACCORDLVR said and the taller gears will allow more time for the turbo to acheive boost. Search the web (or AF) for clubs or what not to see what type of numbers people are getting w/TC LS engines. The possiabilities are endless but it most likely will be w/turbo unless you have a thing for all motor.

don't forget to upgrade your radiator, most people overlook that

b20 isnt bad...
go to www.ludespeed.com and see what he has goin on... tq and hp numbers are the same/close, 180ish, and he has built the fuel system to take b/n 15-25 psi on stock internals. see what he has... you can build it pretty strong, and since it is nonvtec, you have tons of tq to play with...

b16 for concerns about your r/s ratio...for pure power, there's no replacement for displacement....a stroked gsr or b20/vtec...although if I was building a monster, I would use an h22

Originally posted by pvang31019
b16 for concerns about your r/s ratio...for pure power, there's no replacement for displacement....a stroked gsr or b20/vtec...although if I was building a monster, I would use an h22


I thought about the H22a, but apparently it won't be an easy install and if it's not done right the car's front wheels will actually fly off because of the torque.. that's what some told me anyways. I need it as a daily driven vehicle so i can't have any of that happening to me :)

I don't know much about the B20, what car has the B20?

IMO i like to see the B16A turbocharged. I think the compression is prefect for turbocharging. The DRAG III on a B16A2 puts out 264.4 HP @ the wheels.

you can shoot that person beacause what they mean is that they didn't torque the lug nuts right...

the b20 came in the CR-V in the USA

i know it's been said a million times b4 but, do not put an h22 in a civic h/b, 2dr or 4dr. there is a significant weight increase which will mean excessive understeer & your handling will b @#it. but, if it's just for the strip, it might be a heck of a monster when it's done right. turbo + h22 in a civic hatch? should b able to post some good times with that. and your traction will be a tad better because of the additional weight in the front. good luck on that swap though, it's a pretty tight fit. anyways, good luck whatever u decide. hopefully you won't leave everyone hanging & you'll post some pics & timeslips when it gets the swap. -1:sun:

Originally posted by ACCORDLVR
i know it's been said a million times b4 but, do not put an h22 in a civic h/b, 2dr or 4dr. there is a significant weight increase which will mean excessive understeer & your handling will b @#it. but, if it's just for the strip, it might be a heck of a monster when it's done right. turbo + h22 in a civic hatch? should b able to post some good times with that. and your traction will be a tad better because of the additional weight in the front. good luck on that swap though, it's a pretty tight fit. anyways, good luck whatever u decide. hopefully you won't leave everyone hanging & you'll post some pics & timeslips when it gets the swap. -1:sun:

hearsay huh? Show me some real proof before you discourage a swap

The H22 weighs 80lbs more than a GSR motor...it doesn't effect the handling as much as you think. As far as a basically unlimited build-up goes, personally, I would go with one of two combinations: Semi built H22, or a semi built hybrid B16 head on a GSR block. Unless it is done right, an ls/vtec isn't the best idea and a turbo ls/vtec would be worse if not done properly. The b16/b18c1 hybrid motor has a good head and a 1.8 liter of displacement...also the better intake manifold.

Hmmm... i've heard the H22 is a bit of a squeeze into a Civic engine bay, and that's withOUT a turbo bolted to the exhaust manifold. I'm not claiming to know anything about H22 turbo's I was just thinking that since that engine is kinda massive by itself... mounting a turbo, intercooler, charge piping, etc might be kind of tricky if possible at all.

Originally posted by PFCfutrell
Hmmm... i've heard the H22 is a bit of a squeeze into a Civic engine bay, and that's withOUT a turbo bolted to the exhaust manifold. I'm not claiming to know anything about H22 turbo's I was just thinking that since that engine is kinda massive by itself... mounting a turbo, intercooler, charge piping, etc might be kind of tricky if possible at all.

it's not too bad, the civic radiator is pretty small already, so what I've seen done is to position the larger compressor side on the driver's side of the motor

I mentioned the topic to a friend of mine tonight and it turns out he has a friend with a turbo H22 civic hatch. I guess it is possible, not as easy as putting a turbo on a D16 i'll bet :)

I'd go with either Drag or FMAX man.

FMAX is really good but it's hella expensive.

Drag is nice and a good value but comes with a so-so wastegate, manifold and fuel system.

GReddy, I've heard is alright but is way too expensive.

RevHard, don't even waste your time. Way too fucking expensive.

No question. The B16 is way better for turbo applications. The rod/stroke ratio is perfect for turbo. Then again it all depends on how much you are willing to build the engine. A bolt on turbo for a B18C will give you higher Tq and HP but if you build the B16 it will post better numbers and be more reliable because of the affore-mentioned rod/stroke. It all depends on how much you want to spend.

Originally posted by SuperGreen95EX
No question. The B16 is way better for turbo applications. The rod/stroke ratio is perfect for turbo. Then again it all depends on how much you are willing to build the engine. A bolt on turbo for a B18C will give you higher Tq and HP but if you build the B16 it will post better numbers and be more reliable because of the affore-mentioned rod/stroke. It all depends on how much you want to spend.

i thought that the b18's were the best engines to turbo out of the honda line up.:confused:

Originally posted by Neutrino


i thought that the b18's were the best engines to turbo out of the honda line up.:confused:

The B18B1 is the best engine to turbo in terms of able to run the most PSI. The B16 is better because of R/S ratio, but you can't run as much boost cuz of the high CR. If you changed the compression to the same as the B18B1, then the B16 would the best.

Originally posted by SuperGreen95EX
No question. The B16 is way better for turbo applications. The rod/stroke ratio is perfect for turbo. Then again it all depends on how much you are willing to build the engine. A bolt on turbo for a B18C will give you higher Tq and HP but if you build the B16 it will post better numbers and be more reliable because of the affore-mentioned rod/stroke. It all depends on how much you want to spend.

HAHA the ls is better than the b16 sorrrryyyyy. the b16 is MADE for highreving all motor power on track not 1/4 mile.

Originally posted by Brice
I'd go with either Drag or FMAX man.

FMAX is really good but it's hella expensive.

Drag is nice and a good value but comes with a so-so wastegate, manifold and fuel system.

GReddy, I've heard is alright but is way too expensive.

RevHard, don't even waste your time. Way too fucking expensive.

WHAT!. revhard is by FAR the best kit you just listed. that is just ignorant. drag sucks ass. they sell small dirty manifolds that flow like ass. fmax is decent but revhard is still the best out of those.

Originally posted by PWMAN

The B18B1 is the best engine to turbo in terms of able to run the most PSI. The B16 is better because of R/S ratio, but you can't run as much boost cuz of the high CR. If you changed the compression to the same as the B18B1, then the B16 would the best.
you actually shouldnt worry to much about rod to stroke ratio unless your running stock internals...unless your running alot of boost (which the stock motor cant handle anyways)
about the b16 compression....i completely disagree
if you lower the compression in the b16 you take away its advantage... it has no displacment therefor it needs all the air it can get to make power. if you lower the compression on that motor you pull almost ALL of the power out of the lower end of your rpm band (which you need to spool up that snail you have under the hood) if you have less compression then your going to have turbolag like crazy. bottom line....you need a crazy good setup to get great numbers out of a b16.
ps...with more compression it takes less boost to get good numbers. the best honda drag car builders in the world run highcompression turbo. it just takes more knowledge and tuning to do it this way. less margin for error

Originally posted by Rgacke
don't forget to upgrade your radiator, most people overlook that

really?What happens if you dont?

you people really need to evaluate what you read some more. why are you all so concerned with the r/s ratio? yah its nice to have a perfect ratio when reving to 10k rpm but who does that? not many of us. also, the b18b is in no way BETTER for turbocharging. its not stronger then the others and it cant handle any more boost, the only reason people THINK its good for turbo is because it starts with a lower compression then the rest of the b series engines which means it can handle maybe 2 or 3 more psi without blowing the head gasket on stock internals. but when the internals are replaced it negates the advantage of the b18b and remember that it does not have vtec which is proven to add hp even in turbo motors. if you cant decide what to buy as far as your engine goes, then do some of your own research, take the opinions of the people here (if they are correct, which doesnt happen often) and form your own conclusion as to which fits your needs and your budget the best.

personally i have a fully built ls/vtec motor and all i have to say is screw the r/s ratio. i dont have to rev past 7500 to smoke half the people out there and i dont even have a turbo. if you need a perfect r/s ratio and you have to have an engine that can rev to 10k rpm, then go get a motorcycle.

i love my all motor car because it is different and more of a challenge then just slapping on a turbo. but thats just me. turbos are great and if you want to build a turbo car then go ahead, just make sure you get all the CORRECT facts.

Originally posted by edman24
personally i have a fully built ls/vtec motor and all i have to say is screw the r/s ratio. i dont have to rev past 7500 to smoke half the people out there and i dont even have a turbo. if you need a perfect r/s ratio and you have to have an engine that can rev to 10k rpm, then go get a motorcycle.

i love my all motor car because it is different and more of a challenge then just slapping on a turbo. but thats just me. turbos are great and if you want to build a turbo car then go ahead, just make sure you get all the CORRECT facts.

i revd my lsvtec to 8500 and made a best 12.50 time on that motor before i tore it down and built it back up for turbo without the b16 head and i ran a whole second faster with shitty tuning and a bad tranny. you should go lsvtec turbo. you would be ALOT faster. later this week im pulling my motor again and putting my new b16 head which ive been working on for the past month. after tuning im expecting mid-high 10's or lower 11's.

Originally posted by edman24
the b18b is in no way BETTER for turbocharging. its not stronger then the others and it cant handle any more boost, the only reason people THINK its good for turbo is because it starts with a lower compression then the rest of the b series engines which means it can handle maybe 2 or 3 more psi without blowing the head gasket on stock internals. but when the internals are replaced it negates the advantage of the b18b and remember that it does not have vtec which is proven to add hp even in turbo motors.

Yes it is better for turboing. I didn't say it was stronger, all the B series are about the same strength wise. And unless you are running racing gas, you can't put 12 PSI to a B16 in STOCK FORM, you can to a B18B1. That is what I said, the B18B1 is the best to turbo with STOCK INTERNALS. Sure if you replace the B16 internals its going to be better, but thats more work you have to do, more down time, and more expensive. And you have to sleeve every B series if you are going to boost more than 14, and that gets into mega bucks to do.
And VTEC is NOT better for turboing. Big cams are NOT good for FI. It has been proven that the stock LS cams are better than stock GSR cams for turbo. Why do you think that drag racers do not use VTEC???

Originally posted by PWMAN

It has been proven that the stock LS cams are better than stock GSR cams for turbo. Why do you think that drag racers do not use VTEC???

i heard something similar about FI and Vtec. is it because you get too much overlap? or they stay open too much and you lose compresion?

Originally posted by PWMAN

And VTEC is NOT better for turboing. Big cams are NOT good for FI. It has been proven that the stock LS cams are better than stock GSR cams for turbo. Why do you think that drag racers do not use VTEC???

in stock for stock i agree.....the ls cams are better. MOST of the best drag racers still use vtec heads tho because with work they are the best way to make power. but you must remember....they use cams that have crazy numbers and have nasty overlap which you wouldnt ever want to drive on street.

pwman you should get to a track and look at some of the racers engines. almost all pro drag racers do use vtec heads. they may have cams that kill the vtec but that is only for race purposes. vtec is not bad for turbo at all. it is only bad when you use cams other then stock or cams that are not designated for turbo use. yes overlap is bad for a FI engine but the stock cams work perfect because they do not overlap very much. ive seen gsr's turboed to over 450hp and type r's with over 500hp using stock cams so saying the ls head is better is totally wrong. and about the b18b being better again. all i heard was "the b18b is better for turbocharging" without any explanation as to why. so i explained why some people think that. and dont go on talking about how you can boost 12 psi on a b18b but not on the rest of the vtec engines because 9 psi on a vtec engine would feel like 12 psi on an ls engine. the extra compression makes up for lack in boost.

about tubrocharging my car, yes im sure i would be a lot faster, but i like my NA engine and i think its cool when people i smoke always come by and ask "man, wheres your intercooler, that things got to be turbocharged" so i just laugh and while driving away tell them its a stock 1.5 liter sohc engine;)

Originally posted by edman24
pwman you should get to a track and look at some of the racers engines. almost all pro drag racers do use vtec heads. they may have cams that kill the vtec but that is only for race purposes. vtec is not bad for turbo at all. it is only bad when you use cams other then stock or cams that are not designated for turbo use. yes overlap is bad for a FI engine but the stock cams work perfect because they do not overlap very much.

how many pro drag racers do u kno that are running stock cams? u say it urself, that they use cams that KILL the vtec...why is this? BECAUSE VTEC w/ aftermarket cams cause over-lap.

i think that was the point that pwman was trying to make. he's not saying stock vs stock, that u don't need vtec still, he's saying that the SERIOUS fully' built drag' cars have eliminated vtec.

im not arguing with the point if u leave the stock cams' in, because that is tru, but seriously, how many of the 8-10 second civics runnin b series motors still rely on stock cams? i think that was wut pwman was tryin to get across to u.

so really...u don't make any real points...u say the pro's use vtec heads, but have cams that eliminate the vtec? they have cam's that kill vtec, but that is for race purposes only? uh...plz explain...

Originally posted by edman24
saying the ls head is better is totally wrong. and about the b18b being better again. all i heard was "the b18b is better for turbocharging" without any explanation as to why. so i explained why some people think that. and dont go on talking about how you can boost 12 psi on a b18b but not on the rest of the vtec engines because 9 psi on a vtec engine would feel like 12 psi on an ls engine. the extra compression makes up for lack in boost.


Dude you are way off base with what I'm sayin. I said the cams are better, not the head.
And NO NO NO NO NO does extra compression make up for lack in boost. Why do you think drag racers run extremely low compression? Because lower compression with more boost equals more power than higher compression with less boost. For example-if you have 2 of the exact same engine, but one with 8:1 compression running 20 PSI boost, and one with 10:1 compression running 10 PSI boost. You think they are going to make the same power? 10 PSI is going to get you like 70 HP gain on the one engine, and the extra 2:1 compression is going to get you about 20 HP. And those boost numbers are for the running of 93 octane pump gas, they are about the max's you can run(20 PSI with 8:1, and 10 PSI with 10:1 CR) on pump gas.

Yeah the pros use VTEC HEADS, but I'm talking for the street. With only running about 10 PSI, the LS cams will spool a turbo much faster than any VTEC cams.

you guys are both missing my points too. is this guys planning on building an 8 second civic? i dont think so. we were talking about street motors and killing the vtec in a street motor would be absolutely stupid. and i said some not all drag racers kill vtec, some still use it. and about the compression, when turbocharging a street motor, youd want ti to have some kind of power down low. thats where your compression comes in. if you drop the compression below 8.5:1 you lose all your low end power and have nothing until the turbo spools. yah youll run more boost, and higher PEAK hp but in street motor, peak hp does you no good. so stop goin off into the pro drag racing world and keep the discussion on a street car level. you guys go ahead with your turbo ls engines and ill stick with my vtec.

I was just using 8:1 as an extreme example. For the street 9:1 is ideal, to be able to run about 14 PSI. And if you are going to change internals, yes a VTEC engine is better to turbo. But stock for stock, a B18B1 boosted to max will be more powerful than a B18C1 boosted to max. And stock LS cams spool a turbo quicker than stock GSR cams.

wheres a good place to buy a b18c1? Im looking around online before i go to the local shops is the average price for this around $3500?
I dont really see any that are any less than that. :(

Originally posted by V00D00
wheres a good place to buy a b18c1? Im looking around online before i go to the local shops is the average price for this around $3500?
I dont really see any that are any less than that. :(

A JDM B18C1?
www.jspecauto.com has the JDM B18C1 complete swap for 3100. But you can find cheaper than that too. I've seen 2800, but I forget where.

This thread is full of so much bullshit it isn't even funny.Vtec's are EXCELLENT for boost,the heads flow SO MUCH better than the LS,and compression,give me a break,HELLO HAVE YOU HEARD OF TUNING,holy shit overlap?FUCK,get some damn cam gears and dyno time.vtec heads rev higher,hmmmm...fuck that,who wants to stay within the powerband,not anyone running an LS motor,that's for sure.Learn a thing or two about TUNING your motor,and then post,stop spitting out bullshit you've read on the fucking iNtRaw3B.

i hope you werent referring to me jcrx. everything i said backed up the statement you just made. i think you are right and that some people on here should go do some real research.

yes JDM i wouldnt mind a used engine with under 30k miles if it hacked the price down a bit.Right now im kinda strapped thoughmy fiancee just got out of surgery :(

Originally posted by V00D00
yes JDM i wouldnt mind a used engine with under 30k miles if it hacked the price down a bit.Right now im kinda strapped thoughmy fiancee just got out of surgery :(


sorry to hear that. hope she recovers fast:)

I think the LS engine is good to turbo charge because of the low compression ratio. Plus I heard that the LS connecting rods can handle up to 300-325 HP before they bend.

Originally posted by super_man_3179
I think the LS engine is good to turbo charge because of the low compression ratio. Plus I heard that the LS connecting rods can handle up to 300-325 HP before they bend.

somehow i doubt that the rods can handle that much.......

Originally posted by Neutrino


somehow i doubt that the rods can handle that much.......

I know shotpeened and with ARP bolts added you can run atleast 350, some people run 400.

Originally posted by PWMAN


I know shotpeened and with ARP bolts added you can run atleast 350, some people run 400.

reliable?

I know a man at honda told me that LS rods can handle 300-325 hp. stock. Because some people swap LS rods into civic engines as an alternative to expensive aftermarket rods. Maybe the guy at honda is exagerating, but you can run 255 WHP saftly on the stock engine internals..which is about what...270-280 HP at the crank...so that's about right..I guess.

jesus christ people....the ls doesnt have that low of compression. low compression is like 8 to 1.

it's low compared to the other B-Series engines. That's all we are talking about. 9.2:1 is good and decent for a turbo. Turthfully I'd rather have a higher compression and lower boost than low compression and high boost...because on a higher compression the turbo spools fatster reducing turbo lag.

Originally posted by super_man_3179
it's low compared to the other B-Series engines. That's all we are talking about. 9.2:1 is good and decent for a turbo. Turthfully I'd rather have a higher compression and lower boost than low compression and high boost...because on a higher compression the turbo spools fatster reducing turbo lag.


wth turbo's nowadays tubo lag is not what it used to be....a t25 or a t28 will spoll so fast now you won't even notice if set up that way...

Originally posted by super_man_3179
Turthfully I'd rather have a higher compression and lower boost than low compression and high boost...because on a higher compression the turbo spools fatster reducing turbo lag.

no shit....but when the low compression car is spooling 17-18 psi (on a hefty turbo) at 6000 and your still maybe spiking 11....that low compression car will reel your in and beat it all around the road. i agree that higher compression spools turbo faster.....but there's easier ways to spool a turbo. mines 9:1 compression right now and i spool 10 psi at 4000 rpms.

Originally posted by jcrx
This thread is full of so much bullshit it isn't even funny.Vtec's are EXCELLENT for boost,the heads flow SO MUCH better than the LS,and compression,give me a break,HELLO HAVE YOU HEARD OF TUNING,holy shit overlap?FUCK,get some damn cam gears and dyno time.vtec heads rev higher,hmmmm...fuck that,who wants to stay within the powerband,not anyone running an LS motor,that's for sure.Learn a thing or two about TUNING your motor,and then post,stop spitting out bullshit you've read on the fucking iNtRaw3B.


I'm not tuner, but I've seen dyno graphs from LS engines and GSR and typer R turbocharged engines....And from what I've seen...The LS proves top have the most TORQUE in a useable power range for the street. Who wants to rev to 8500 RPMS all day to get power? That will ruin your engine....The LS can smoke and peak torque is around 6000 RPMS.....I seen a DRAG gen III kit on a 96 integra LS with only a block guard put down 255 WHP and 216 ft-lbs on only 6 PSi..and around 4000 RPMS you have about 200 ft-lbs of torque...!!! The DRAG gen III on a GSR was slightly lower and much lower torque.....I also heard the LS rods can handle more and the LS block can handle more boost.....so I would go LS for turbo and the gears and cams are perfect for a turbo.

Originally posted by super_man_3179



I'm not tuner, but I've seen dyno graphs from LS engines and GSR and typer R turbocharged engines....And from what I've seen...The LS proves top have the most TORQUE in a useable power range for the street. Who wants to rev to 8500 RPMS all day to get power? That will ruin your engine....The LS can smoke and peak torque is around 6000 RPMS.....I seen a DRAG gen III kit on a 96 integra LS with only a block guard put down 255 WHP and 216 ft-lbs on only 6 PSi..and around 4000 RPMS you have about 200 ft-lbs of torque...!!! The DRAG gen III on a GSR was slightly lower and much lower torque.....I also heard the LS rods can handle more and the LS block can handle more boost.....so I would go LS for turbo and the gears and cams are perfect for a turbo.

seriosuly not calling bs or anything but i would like to see the charts that rate the drag3 kit on an ls at 255wheelpower at only 6 psi... thats almost 20 horsepower gain per pound of boost. for a turbo KIT and an unbuilt ls...that sounds fishy.
everything else you stated is true as far as stock form is concerned.

Originally posted by ssshhhh (_burn_)


seriosuly not calling bs or anything but i would like to see the charts that rate the drag3 kit on an ls at 255wheelpower at only 6 psi... thats almost 20 horsepower gain per pound of boost. for a turbo KIT and an unbuilt ls...that sounds fishy.
everything else you stated is true as far as stock form is concerned.

Not fishy just the truth.....

http://www.overboost.com/story.asp?id=57

http://www.geocities.com/dynocenter/turbo.html

The LS is the shiznit!!!!

haha good deal man. i wasnt saying that it was bs. i just said that with a "kit" it would be tough. haha and i know that ls's are the shit. mine dyno'd 480 (give or take a few because it was on a mustang dyno):rolleyes: before i started building it strictly for the track

Originally posted by super_man_3179



I'm not tuner, but I've seen dyno graphs from LS engines and GSR and typer R turbocharged engines....And from what I've seen...The LS proves top have the most TORQUE in a useable power range for the street. Who wants to rev to 8500 RPMS all day to get power? That will ruin your engine....The LS can smoke and peak torque is around 6000 RPMS.....I seen a DRAG gen III kit on a 96 integra LS with only a block guard put down 255 WHP and 216 ft-lbs on only 6 PSi..and around 4000 RPMS you have about 200 ft-lbs of torque...!!! The DRAG gen III on a GSR was slightly lower and much lower torque.....I also heard the LS rods can handle more and the LS block can handle more boost.....so I would go LS for turbo and the gears and cams are perfect for a turbo.
That must be why some of the fastest drag civics are using GSR's and/or GSR bottom ends.

Originally posted by jcrx

That must be why some of the fastest drag civics are using GSR's and/or GSR bottom ends.

but theyre opened up for more displacement....like ls's

Yeah but the GSR head flows alot better and the GSR cams are perfect for T/C. With a built GSR and a built LS/GS you will be better off with the GSR. Add the Skunk Type R knock-off intake MF and you are all set for a badazz T/C motor! Thats why I got the GSR with the LSD. Should be adding a Drag gen 3 kit in the next few months.

Yes of course if you build the GSR it's going to be better. But stock for stock, the LS is better for turbo. The cams spool the turbo faster, and the low 9.2:1 CR lets you run 12-14 PSI boost. Also, the LS's gearing is better too. All you guys that say ''well, 8 PSI on a VTEC is like the equivalent of 12 PSI on an non-VTEC'' are wrong, but lets take everything else into consideration too. OK, you can run about 8-9 PSI on a GSR, 12-14 PSI on an LS. They will both probably make like 275 HP to the crank. Then, once you factor is the faster spooling, and better gearing, and more torque, guess which one is going to be at the finish line first?:iceslolan