Scale Auto and... modern cars.

I was about to call this thread "Scale Auto and Tuners," but I changed my mind. I think the following gripe will easily apply itself to anything that came off a 1:1 assembly line since 1985.

And I remember there being a pretty big hashing out of gripes and qualms about Scale Auto about a year ago, and the purpose of this thread is not to incense those participating members and those issues.

I went to my local hobby shop yesterday, to get the Rally Mechanic set so I could liberate a mechanic and let him go on a ski vacation. While there, I picked up the newest issue of Scale Auto. I like the magazine, it's good in my opinion, there are good how-to's (the build up of the custom Mercury is very informative) and the contest coverage is great. There is plenty of inspiring models and enough tips to keep me busy with new technique while reacting to that inspiration. So I regularly pick up copies of the magazine and read them, mostly cover to cover, and keep them to refer to later.

I understand that they are obligated by both their readership and the way consumerism works to print articles about models and cars or a certain variety. Older american cars, muscle cars, old school customs are their cake, and I appreciate them as models, as subjects, and enjoy reading about their construction regardless of my personal preference for modelling material. There are many great contributing writers that build fabulous models and write up the build very thoroughly and engagingly.

Scale Auto is also trying, diligently to keep pace with the smaller, but growing, and quickly changing import model trend. I can't fault them for their attempts, they are putting effort into it.

However, their lack of understanding of this trend is extremely frustrating. The magazine also complains, constantly, about the lack of youth in the hobby. The opening editorial is dedicated, as many previous editorials, about youth and the quandary: "How do we attract kids from video games to models?" Then, the same editorial and a later, very in depth (and good, mind you) article about a young man who built a Dodge Neon Superbee. Surely, this is the future of modelling!

No. Well, he is, but he is the exception to the rule. Just a quick show of hands, how many members of the AF modelling forum are under 17 years old? I'd guess half, easy. And, what's the most predominant type of model built here? Imports, no doubt, and what isn't a tuner is some sort of modern machine.

I'm sure Scale Auto knows this, on some level, and I am sure they are trying to make a concerted effort to address this segment of modelling. But nevertheless, there is a clear bias towards the more traditional segment of the modelling community. Again, I understand this, that's just how it works.

Where I get frustrated is when this bias creeps into their discussion of tuners. This is where we can see that they obviously missed the boat. How many times have we seen a tuner in a contest or reader's submissions section that has "Inspired by "The Fast and the Furious" in the description? I have a hard time beleiving that all these cars were, in fact, inspired by that movie, though it's certainly possible. A WRX made an appearance in the June 2002 (I think) issue's sketchpad, but it wore very obvious american muscle styling cues. Perhaps this is to attract american muscle modellers to that segment of modelling, but it flew in the face of what I figure to be the whole point of import tuners and models.

The Custom Clinic Photo Contest in the most recent featured a variety of cars. The one that won the 1st place was an "Acura S2000 Coupe" made of an S2000 and Integra graphted together (I beleive there was a thread on that model here in the past). Perhaps giving this model the nod was a concession to the tuner "craze," perhaps not. The model is very ill proportioned, I don't understand how it won, especially in the competition it was surrounded in. The model I thought should have won was a "Shelby Series I coupe." This model was criticized for having a "too theatrical" hood and that it would be "better to substitute a simpler hood with a raised scoop, highlighted by a modest GM peak..." (Gustavson, p45). Says who? The hood matches the side vents, and isn't theatrical at all when putting it in context of, I don't know, modern cars? I don't know the full story on these cars or the deciding process, but I think a single judge leaves plenty of room for personal bias. This is not the first time I've furrowed my brow in consternation to a design critique here.

Unfortunately, despite their efforts, Scale Auto is seriously behind the curve on the tuner, the modern, car scene. It's not because a lack of automotive knowledge, but because of an odd ignorance of modern styling trends, tuning interest, and just the general youth scene. And worse, they speak on the subject with a self appointed authority on the subject. This where they get my goat, they don't see how they are alienating the model building youth. They don't understand how their fickle bias toward their particular model preference.

Yes, there is a need to attract youths into the hobby, but there's a very easy way to do it that is already ongoing. Show youth that there are models of the cars they see and love on the street, TV or in movies. There is no point to patting a youth on the back because they built a model that appeals to the old timer's taste (however well thought out and well built the model is). There is no point on critiquing models or cars using a set of rules that are 30 years out of date. All this does is make the magazine seem hopelessly out of touch, and very phony. Kids can spot a phony. Kids spot Scale Auto, really, the grandest portion of the modelling community as catering to them through false smiles and feint praise.

Scale Auto needs to go one way or another, but as it is, they are halfassing their attempt to reach youths and import enthusiasts. If they want to continue downt hat path, then they need to stick with it. If they want to genuinly address that issue, they need to make a genuine change. They need to invite true import enthusiasts to provide contributions, not an old timer building a tuner. They could have a column about the import segment (like they do for commercial modelling). They could do something. But the truth is, at the moment, they are missing out on the trend, the future of modelling.

Personally, this is turning me off to the mainstream modelling community. They are blind to what is actually going on out there, sitting on their comfortable chair in their comfortable, misguided modelling world. I understand that we, as tuner builders, are in the minority, but there could be better coverage of us, and a genuine respect for it, isntead of a "how quaint" attitude toward the novelty of our modelling interests.

[/rant]

This has to be the longest post I have ever read besides the FAQ. I completely agree with everything you said.

I myself am 15 years old.

I love Scale Auto Magazine but I do have a problem with their content sometimes. I read most stuff cover to cover. I love the how to's and tips, that is why it is one of my favorite magazines all around.

I notice they seem to cater to old-farts (Sorry 'Tonio and others). Also the "Fast and Furious" stereo typing has to go. Ninety percent of the time I see a submitted tuner and they do their right up on it I will see the words "Inspired by 'The Fast and the Furious'" When in fact the person that built the model was possibly "de-inspired" by the movie. Just because its a tuner doesnt mean its automatically "Inspired by 'The Fast and the Furious'". When somebody submits a Dodge Charger/Challenger they dont say "Inspired bt 'The Dukes of Hazard'" do they? Just a little stereo typical.

Also Scale Auto needs to venture out of their cubicles to their LHS. Look through the car modeling section and look what is mainly shown, tuners. A majority of Tamiya, Fujimi, Aoshima, and other company's models are tuners.

Then Scale Auto tries to cater to the young audience. How about you feature tuners? Look at most of the magazines out in grocery stores, tuner magazines. Fine Scale Modeller (I believe thats the magazine) has featured some of Chris' SAS stuff and those sell like hot cakes.

I noticed Willimo said something about new style models. My Hot Rods are new style Models. They are a new design of old hot rods, for instance my Hot Rod build is a modern design that's ancestor is the '32 Roadster.

Well I forgot what else I was going to say, I got a little sidetracked.

i read most of what was wrote about imports and newer cars, and FATF stuff. myself have never got that magazine or read it. but i know about how people not doing so much imports, and saying bad crap. i live in the courty and everyone is into lifted trucks and things, and they try to kick the import guys asses in races. and then in other things you see old timers building there rods and it is there generation. well the newer 15-30 year olds are into imports anf people should know.

i read most of what was wrote about imports and newer cars, and FATF stuff. myself have never got that magazine or read it. but i know about how people not doing so much imports, and saying bad crap. i live in the courty and everyone is into lifted trucks and things, and they try to kick the import guys asses in races. and then in other things you see old timers building there rods and it is there generation. well the newer 15-30 year olds are into imports anf people should know.

I love hot rods, more than imports probably, so therefore I am an oldtimer? How about we differentiate between the two by Old School and New School?

Welp I am 15 years old also. I ofcourse love imports more than american cars, but it is maybe the fact that i have only lived in the US for half of my life and started out looking at imports in my native country. I am also pretty new to this modeling world. Just started modeling July of 2003 doing little modifiers 1/43 scale which are mostly Import Tuners except for their Ford Mustangs, Escalades, etc. :disappoin :lol: And now moving up to bigger scale (1/24) i am literally a newbie to all of this, having only completed 4 (1/24 scale models). I have never read Scale Auto Mag but have seen it in my LHS and i wasn't tooo amazed by the couple of cars that i saw when i skimmed through it. I find that here on AF we have more talented people and this is one of the places where i get to see the cars which truly inspire me. For me The Fast and the Furious is not inspiring at all. Since i talk alot with my father about cars (he is 53) i think i have more of a simpler taste and am inspired really by cars which have simple looks that are not too extravagant in the outside but still show their potential. Around here i know very little people of my age into modeling. I tried to get my friend to do models but he just gave up, he claimed "pimpin girls demand less attention than models". :disappoin But since im one of those person that likes to wander around and just be a loner i guess thats why i have such a big interest in modeling other than my love for CARS! Something that also made me want to get into modeling was the fact that i started to notice how badly some Die Cast models were being made, in my room i have about 28 1/18 scale die cast cars and several other scale die cast cars. Seeing how ugly they were i thought to myself "man this junk is wack yo, i wanna have betta stuff in mah collection" that was when i started messing with my 1/43 scale modifiers and now am with 1/24 scale. I hope on doing this forever for my love of cars but my true passion is art which i have been doing more than i do models, but i take my time on that stuff. I will pick up some Scale Auto Mag now that you guys have brought it to my attention and see what they are really about.

:)

Great rant, I think you should send it to their editors and try to get the ball rolling...

Well written Willimo !! I stopped my subscription for just that reason!

*cough*letter to the editor*cough*

Actually, like half the SA staff are registered members here. I wonder if they still read this board now that they've got the SA board up and running...

I'd be glad to post it to their board! I agree with the above rant 110%!!! :sunglasse

*stands, applause*

Agree totally. Its not just 'tuners' failing to make their way onto the pages of SA, its modern cars altogether - none american cars at that. There are not many rally, GT, F1 models in their either, plenty of younger people into these sports/cars.

Gregg Hutchings, editor of Model Cars, has a better attitude and understanding as to what is happening on the model scene IMO, recently starting a tuner column as a regular feature infact. Also our very own Bob Downie is having a go at steering SA in the right direction;)

I saw Chris' SAS Celica Bodykit, which was on SA! Pretty good job. Everyone knows you!

I saw Chris' SAS Celica Bodykit, which was on SA! Pretty good job. Everyone knows you!

That's all Bob Downie's work, he gets credit for that.

There's an easy answer to this question, Import car modeling is actually a really small part of the hobby. I know I'm gonna piss alot of people here of by saying it. I go to alot of model car shows, real all the mags, know alot of people who own hobby stores. if you go to any major model car show (NNL East, GSL,........) i'll have to say 75% of the builds are 1980-older Muscle cars and Hot Rods. but I have noticed recently alot more import stuff which is great news, but the shows are still dominated by Muscle Cars and Hot Rods,

Model Cars Magazine has done a great job keeping up with this trend. they did a review of all SAS products, and have an import column regularly in the magazine.

SA does a great to job to show details of builds by some of the best modelers in the hobby (Bill Geary, and Juha Iria (SP?)..........) and most only build muscle cars,

This is the only message board I know out there which is basically import only. and I hafta say i'm more into imports then classics, but there are alot of people are age out there. who build only muscle cars. becouse there into muscle cars. Import modeling is getting bigger, and the people who build them are as good as some i've seen at shows. but its still not as mainstream as Muscle car Hot Rod building

Not to spoil the mood, but I think you've missed the point somewhat of what Scale Auto is to the hobby, and how it reflects the hobby. I've been reading it for over 20 years, I've been writing for it occasionally, and I've been both a critic and a champion of it all along.

For those that don't know, I am the real Bob Downie (and being a Jr. doesn't help when I use my full name... :rolleyes: ). Thankfully I type a hell of a lot faster than I build.

Scale Auto depends on it's readers to send them articles (so does Model Cars). If you want more quality coverage of the cars you like, then by all means submit it. You never saw "inspired by TFATF" in my Kaminari Celica article, did you?! That article was almost identical to what I had sent them. Hardly a word had to be edited. I've got more import stuff and modern stuff to send them in the future. Sure would be nice to have more A/F folks submitting articles. If you want a tuner column, why not propose it? The worst they can say is no. The difference w/Model Cars is that Gregg Hutchings the editor is a hands-on modeler and he doesn't have quite the same corporate folk breathing down his neck, he has more leeway. He pretty much puts the whole thing together himself, ships the CD layout of the magazine to the publisher and it's done, and he relies on submissions by his readers. It's much more grass-roots in content and feel (and pay scale), Scale Auto is more slick and professional, as it should be. There's plenty of room for both. Neither will ever be perfect, so if you expect that, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

As for contest coverage, when a model is photographed the person who built the model submits a written form with details, and that is the heart of the description. The editors edit, but they edit the material given to them and make sure it's accurate. I've written many slide descriptions from our show. If the person wrote it down, the essence of what they said is used in the caption. And you'd be surprised how many mention the movie as inspiration for their tuners. I've seen it, first hand.

Their racing column is now written by a guy who is into GT/Prototype racing. As NA$CAR wanes in model interest, Scale Auto's competition column is now focusing more on the cars I/we like, not simply rubber-stamping of yet another "let's put some Slixx decals on this stock car" and submit an article about it.

As for being tuner-clueless or biased against them, consider this: their associate editor Andy Lilienthal is a tuner fanatic. He eats, sleeps, breathes imports. He drives a tuner Civic. He's well under the age of 30. He digs the same sort of modern stuff that is on this site every day. If you ever met the guy, you might be surprised-he is one of us...not one of "them". He's a great asset to the magazine, he's a car nut with gasoline flowing through his veins. The guys at the magazine are simply doing the best with what gets submitted, they don't have much budget for custom-written articles, most all of the articles inside are submitted by freelance writers who don't get a heck of a lot of compensation for their time and effort, but they do get some $$ and the recognition. The guys who are the most prolific writers do tend to be older, and submit more. Yes, there are a lot of old farts (some like me who refuse to grow up, and some that act like they're already soaking up to their armpits in the tarpits) in the hobby, and for your voice to be heard, you simply have to go beyond complaining or criticizing and step up and show them the money.

There are lots of guys on this site capable of writing for Scale Auto or Model Cars, if that's your favorite. If there is any bias, it's not in the magazine itself, but the individual people who submit the articles-Scale Auto only has a paid full-time staff of about 3 or 4 people. They seriously do want to be on the pulse of the hobby, and to have an idea where the future of it is. I do my part to submit stuff, now how about some of you guys doing yours? I can only do so much. You want more of what you want, get your gear together, build a kick-ass model, photograph the sequence and the finished product. Write legible captions for the pictures. If you have an idea, contact them. You want examples of what they look for in terms of quality? Compare your work with what is published. They have very public guidelines for writers. It's not hard at all to get your work into the magazine. They take digital pictures now, if your camera is 3.3mpx or higher. You'll show your models off here for free, why not try to show them off in a magazine AND get paid?! The biggest hurdle is getting them good quality photographs. If you can handle that, and plan your project out so that a reader can understand what you're doing or have done, then you're ready to steer the magazine into your neighborhood too.

As for the custom clinic contest, that contest has been embroiled in some level of controversy ever since day one, from all sides of the hobby. It's one man's design opinion (and he's a good friend of mine as well). If it weren't popular, he'd never get entries. Some of the best models I've ever seen have won that contest. Sometimes I question his sanity and decisions. Sometime I question my own :icon16: . You already know he is an expert customizer and builder himself, and naturally his era of interest is from when he was younger...or more likely the age that most of the A/F guys are now. Not every year does it succeed, it's focus is to get guys interested in doing complicated styling conversions with a lot of thought towards the total design. It may be flawed, but it's looked forward to every year by a lot of readers. More A/F people should be submitting their models to the contest. If all they get is custom Chevies, Fords, Mercuries...it's not their fault. I've seen that Honda model that won, it's decent and built by an excellent modeler. But it reminds me of my dark blue Lexus SC400 that was far easier to just throw together. I haven't gotten my issue yet, so I can't comment on the others. Only the old pharts will remember my Camarice that won the "Build a Caprice" contest about 10 years ago. It was a Caprice/Impala body w/Z-28 front and rear clips, a ZR1 engine, and Fujimi rims. Still looks pretty sharp today.

Okay, my take on the rant is over. :) I've always felt any model magazine is always going to be somewhat wishy-washy, as it has to cater to so many people with so many different tastes and areas of interest. There aren't enough people out there to buy a magazine about models of modern and tuner stuff only. With websites like this, sometimes it seems printed magazines might become obsolete. If Scale Auto swayed more predominantly towards modern/tuner stuff, you don't even want to know how irritated the crusty old dinosaurs soaking their scaly hides deep in the tarpits will get, and how much hate mail would flow in. I think Scale Auto does pretty damned well w/what they've got, I wouldn't want to be in the model car magazine business in the first place. Too many whiners out there... :rolleyes: :biggrin:

Hmmm, just like the 1:1 car world.. :biggrin:

I read the rants here and can understand most of the message, but I see other angles also, like, SA and other mags are mainly out to make a buck by appealing to the largest segment of model builders, which are hot rodders, muscle car and classic car enthusiasts (this is why I dropped them). If you doubt this, go to any model contest and see what the majority of the models are, and look at what models win the majority of the top awards at the contests. The mags are just a reflection of what is on contest tables. They dont want to 'ignore' other segments of the model car crowd, so they include articles on them from their own perspective. I dont think this is the best way to cater to enthusiasts of these other segments, but that's how it has been. I believe there is a market out there for a model tuner mag and can see someone recognizing that and jumping on it (who knows when). Now, if someone would only do a mag on classic sportscars! In the meantime, I say just keep on building what you like, complain until someone does something, and improve your building skills so that your tuner models cant be ignored on the contest tables. That concludes my rant.

Good points all around.

Let me also say that I complain about SA's contents whilst also being asked twice if I would be interested in submitting articles.

I wouldn't mind it so much but I don't currently have a suitable camera to do so.

Anyway, in SA's defense I have spent a good deal of time on their site and they do pay attention to the suggestions, and challenge complainers to submit articles as well as challenge their ideas.

The short answer is SA realizes their magazine can never be what a modeling forum web site can be, that's why they now have one.

It is nice to have articles in print but there is no way a magazine can keep pace with a living breathing web site where ideas are exchanged at lightning speed, and 'articles' are submitted several times a day.

Brian :smile:

Zoomzoom and others who don't agree with me:

First, let it be clear that I don't desire any hard feelings. It was just a feeling that has been growing with each magazine I put down, and it culminated in this one. I will be the first to admit my ignorance about how magazines are put together and about who does it.

I'm not for a second, not for a single one, saying that the magazine should shift gears and cater to tuners. I completely understand the demographic of car modellers out there. In 30 years, there will be model kits and extensive coverage of every individual year of Skylines, that's just how it goes.

The real point to my rant was the weirdness that they surround tuners and modern cars with, and the the ambivalence they have toward younger modellers. More than a few times I've seen "We want the younger crowd in modelling. Here, young man, build this '32 Ford." or something to that effect. Why do the older modellers build older cars? Because that's what was around when they were big eyed kids who were just discovering automobiles. What's around for the younger kids who are now big eyed and full of discover? Hondas, Toyotas and whatnot.

I'm not really asking for great change, notice I didn't really offer any solution. It was just fingers on the keyboard what I was feeling at that moment (and of course, still do). I have often actually considered submitting articles, but my skills in both modelling and photography aren't quite what I'd expect to find in a magazine.

Anyway, I'm not trying to shake the pot very much, it was just something I feel kind of strongly about and wanted to get ya'll's thoughts on; there are a lot of modellers here who I respect enormously, who know much more than I, and who I expect to put me in my place.

Interesting to hear ya'll's thoughts, and thanks Zoomzoom, for your reply as there were many things there that I did not know.

And knowing's have the battle....

You nailed it in the head! I'm glad someone wrote a piece of my mind. But I'm not really complaining about that, you see...

The constant impression that I have formed in my mind after having been browsing only the past few copies of Scale Auto is that it is more of an "American" kind of a model car hobby magazine (Not that I am complaining, it's a US based magazine after all). The main focus seems to be about Mustangs, Plymouths, NASCARs and the sorts. I was a little surprised when a Toyota Celica was featured as a building article in its 25th Anniversary issue. And that was the only article I read completely! :lol:

Anyway, the "trend" of Scale Auto doesn't seems to run parallel to the general "tastes" of the AF community. For example, at AF, "Skyline" (a.k.a. imports) are pretty mainstream. While at Scale Auto, the muscle cars are one of its main flavours. Perhaps because AF Car Modeling Forum is truly global in its tastes?

I also guess its a fine balance of resource limits and readership segments. If given the financial freedom, I believe the Scale Auto Editors would have liked to have 2 versions of its magazine - Scale Auto USA and Scale Auto International - you should get what I'm trying to say. Either this or else Scale Auto is just comprised of a bunch of cowboys from the John Wayne era. :lol:

Again, not that I am complaining :p it's just that Scale Auto is the only dedicated scale model car magazine that I can get to read over here in Singapore.

If I know how to read Japanese, I would have been reading the "Model Cars" and "HobbyJapan" magazines regularly, which in my opinion are waaaaay above in quality and photo coverage.

its not only older people who build Muscle cars. alot of younger people build them, and alot more then you think, its hard for a magazine like SA keep up with trends becouse most of the material they get is for muscle cars, but read them. you can get alot outa them which can pertain to Tuners, I know detailing a flathead V8 to put into a Honda Civic sounds retarded, but there alot of painting tips, and costom detailing stuff to be which can be put into tuner builds, yea, 20 years from now you gonna see alot more Tuners, but your still gonna see alot of muscle cars and Hot Rods, becouse there are alot of younger people who are into it.

BTW, most people who read scale auto are into muscle cars and hot rods. of course, most of there content is going into that magazine. also remember, its just a magazine, Of you want a magazine just about tuners, then get off you ass and make one. if Rosie Odonald can mess one up, anyone can

Actually, Scale Auto's problems run far deeper than poor import modeling scene coverage. Like rats deserting a sinking ship (which is really an inglorious way of describing some phenomeonal builders and authors), the BACKBONE of the writing talent at Scale Auto Enthusiast (the real magazine as opposed to Kalmbach's Scale Auto) has fled the staff.

Look at some of the guys to go:

Larry Greenberg, chief reviewer in the famous "Strictly Stock" column. This man gave us the bad and the good in a straight-forward, no nonsense style. In fact, I model my Rivet Counter reviews after his fierce attention to detail and accuracy. Greenberg left after the diecasts started flooding into his office and now writes for Model Cars magazine.

Terry Jessee, "Light Commercial" and "Resin Kits & Parts" columnist. Besides being a truly swell guy, Terry was a fair and fun reviewer who also passed on a ton of neat tips. He was also one of the most diverse builders on the staff, building everything from panel trucks to LMP Panoz's in the name of the hobby.

Pat Covert, "Tips and Tech" guru. How ANYONE could replace Covert, one of the authorities in the hobby, in this column is beyond me.

(unconfirmed, but damn likely) Drew Hierwater, crotchety but lovable "Bench Racer" columnist. This man stood for two things: excellence in information and the production of quality kits. When Revell released it's NASCAR Intrepid kit, while the ass-kissing new staff applauded its pre-painted window unit and crisp driver figure, Hierwater went off on a tirade against the kit. Pointing out its totally inaccurate engine, overly thick body, incorrect and out of date roll cage, screw on chassis, incorrect body proportions, and several other major flaws. He flat out said to readers "DO NOT BUY THIS KIT!" I respect him for that.

Gary Schmidt, magazine founder. Gary went off to start Galaxie Limited, the model kit company (which does the finest trailer kits ever and two SWEET 1948 Chevies) then, seeing the mess that was Scale Auto (and te fact that they removed "Enthusiast" from the cover) he started Model Cars magazine.

When you gut a magazine staff like that, and then replace the staff with hacks like Loren Bussewitz, you get a crap magazine. Loren doesn't know how to review a kit to save his life, and his facts are usually dead wrong (I point to the August 2002 review of the Revell 1929 3n1 Rat Rod kit as evidence). Mark Melchiori is strong but a rare contributor. Mike Dowd is a kiss-ass. And Patrick Mulligan needs to get off the diecast kick.

Kalmbach won't be getting a cent of my money (except for the occasional issue of Model Railroader) until they pull their heads out of their asses and give us back Scale Auto ENTHUSIAST!

And as usual the more people whinge about the problem, the more it gets blown out of proportion and the less people will buy the Magazine leading to no magazine at all.
And what happens then - the same people start whining again about why doesn't someone start up a magazine that no one wants to write for.
Just like running a club!
I build all sorts of models and I have about 40 Tuners to build compared to about 20+ Rods/musclecars but I have lost interest in the tuners for the moment because of this Forum and its (for lack of a better word only) bias towards tuners and yet more tuners. I love Skylines but to be honest I am sick of seeing them on here despite how beautifuly they are built.
People build one and it gets picked to pieces for not having this right or something is a wrong colour.WHO CARES! That is why a lot of people build rods because a rod is a bit of this car and a bit of that car in a 32 body or whatever and its your car. People cant pick it to bits for that reason as who is to say what you can or cant have.
I thought that would be the way the Tuner scene would be seen but not here on this forum. The models are all clones of a real car not what someone would like to have if they had the funds and equipment to build it.
In the real Tuner world nothing is concrete as to what should go with what just like the rod scene, it is all down to the builders vision of how his car should look.
There is some real radical tuners out in the real world but I doubt we will see a model of them here because they don't conform to the Veilside etc, etc, etc, look. The last I saw was the Astra showcar that someone was building about 12 months ago. And it stopped halfway through its progress.

I have been reading Scale Auto since 84 when I discovered it. I liked it for all the Muscle Cars that people were building. The how to articles were great and very helpful. It made me a better builder. They then dropped the enthuist off the name and added more diecast stuff. Then some of the staff started to leave and so on. I then found Model Cars and it was a breath of fresh air to me. Then Gregg added a Tuner section and that sparked my interest. I have just started getting import models and I can't wait to have one finished. I feel Scale Auto should add a Tuner section. It would be very informative and open some eyes. Here in the Detroit area most people model Muscle cars. Most contests don't have a tuner class, just an import class for stock and that is usually a Porsche or something like that. One contest had a Hot Hatch class for Tuners and only two were in the class. I also think that maybe it is also a geographical thing on what is being built. Like I said here in Detroit you see muscle cars but in the West coast you see more imports it could all be from what you see on the road that inspires you on what to build. I don't see many cool imports here so I have to look else where to find them. If I want to build Muscle cars there are pleanty of examples here in Detroit. I hope this made sence to somebody.

Charlie

Can we all just build and get along? I think some of you are being a little insane on the subject. Zoom said it all, and he knows whats up. If you think about it, you do not need a mag for tuners. Thats pretty much what everybody builds here! Go through the post and see for yourself! I know alot of you here are not into my style of building. And the way I can prove that is when I finished my '37 Ford rat, I posted it as a '37 Ford rat completed. Well about 2 hours went by and maybe 10 people looked at it. Well I then changed the post to "Finally completed" and about 10 people hit on it in 10 minutes. No one needs to down what others are building, atleast they are building and helping keep the hobby alive. Dennis

You guys should just be glad you can even get a copy of it. Trying to get one in Australia now is a joke, they are usually 2 or 3 months late and even trying to get my newsagent to order one in is no better, it is very frustrating. More frustrating than another die cast article or how to get more kids into the hobby editorial in fact!

Perhaps the AF members represent what the mainstream model scene would look like in 5 - 10 years. But for now, muscle/classic cars are still the subject of most models. I have following reasons why I think imports will become more popular in modelling world.

I'm sorry to say this but young(teens to 30's) Americans do not want Chevys and Fords. They want Hondas and Toyotas, VW's and BMW's... anything but American. This is probably more true in big cities, west coast, especially among upper-middle to upper class folks.

I also think that many people who buy Japanese cars changed their taste in cars. They actually think Hondas and Toyotas look better than Chevys and Fords, contrary to the belief that ppl buy them for their quality.

I think imports will slowly replace American cars in modelling world, *IF* enough young people keep building models. I also think that Scale Auto will shift their focus to more tuners/imports over time.

I still support the magazine because I'm grateful to have it. I still agree with my own signature; there's no need for anyone getting upset as long as we can respect one another's opinions.:)

I still support the magazine because I'm grateful to have it. I still agree with my own signature; there's no need for anyone getting upset as long as we can respect one another's opinions.:)
Exactly right Tonio. I build for me and don't bother to post pics here anymore for that reason.

We have a auto magazine in sweden that ofthen have reportages with models... BUT they also do like scale auto magazine just have old blokes building their boring models almost box stock with some minor mods. but they never have tuner cars like a skyline r 33 with engine and sow on... and i think that sucks! but i am writing a letter to them that they must start showing modern cars if they want the younger people reading ther magazine for the hoby part. but i am not reading ther mag cause of their model reportages. and thats because i can get sow mutch better information and sow on here on AF. sorry for my bad englich my gramatichs have ben mutch worse sinc i got a new teatcher.

Jiminee64, I live in Argentina and I've got my SAE 2 weeks before Americans, If you subscribe yourself in SAE's page you can get your copies

You guys should just be glad you can even get a copy of it. Trying to get one in Australia now is a joke, they are usually 2 or 3 months late and even trying to get my newsagent to order one in is no better, it is very frustrating. More frustrating than another die cast article or how to get more kids into the hobby editorial in fact!
HI jiminee;
The newsagents on the Gold coast have all had the April issue since mid April surprisingly.
The February issue I finally got last week of March.
CHeers
Tony

who needs a magazine when you've got this awesome forum!

Perhaps the AF members represent what the mainstream model scene would look like in 5 - 10 years. But for now, muscle/classic cars are still the subject of most models. I have following reasons why I think imports will become more popular in modelling world.

I'm sorry to say this but young(teens to 30's) Americans do not want Chevys and Fords. They want Hondas and Toyotas, VW's and BMW's... anything but American. This is probably more true in big cities, west coast, especially among upper-middle to upper class folks.

I also think that many people who buy Japanese cars changed their taste in cars. They actually think Hondas and Toyotas look better than Chevys and Fords, contrary to the belief that ppl buy them for their quality.

I think imports will slowly replace American cars in modelling world, *IF* enough young people keep building models. I also think that Scale Auto will shift their focus to more tuners/imports over time.

I respectfully disagree, there are young people who are into Fords and Chevys and Classic cars, our newest club member is 15 and thats waht he builds

I respectfully disagree, there are young people who are into Fords and Chevys and Classic cars, our newest club member is 15 and thats waht he builds

Exactly. What car am I looking to get this summer? '51-'54 Chevy Bel Air.

hopefully this may help, i manage a hobby shop and have all types of kits and have some of my kits on display. and most of the younger generation ( i can say that as i'm 40 but still 17 inside) love the rod and muscle cars probable a little more than imports. And everyone that asks for a tuner allways refers to fast and furious which has had a lot of influence in thr tuner scene.and i sell more muscle car kits than import kits. but i do agree as i love rods,muscle and imports and hopfully scale auto will notice

i agree with everything said bout that FATF stereo typing and everything srounding that i mean we could get older ppl in 2 our sport.my dad is 56 and drives a 656rwhp 94 supra hes loves it and this guy use 2 have mustangs and camaros and stuff.we could try 2 convert them. not saying u can but we could try u never know maybe some will like it and sell their rust bucket of a mullet mobile and buy a tuner lol j/k bout the rust bucket part.but u never know until u try and i think we should send that 2 the editors at scale auto they should know what their readers think right?

p.s. my dad builds import models 2 he has a 10ft by 8ft room filled with built models ill try 2 get him 2 take pics for us. :evillol:

i agree with everything said bout that FATF stereo typing and everything srounding that i mean we could get older ppl in 2 our sport.my dad is 56 and drives a 656rwhp 94 supra hes loves it and this guy use 2 have mustangs and camaros and stuff.we could try 2 convert them. not saying u can but we could try u never know maybe some will like it and sell their rust bucket of a mullet mobile and buy a tuner lol j/k bout the rust bucket part.but u never know until u try and i think we should send that 2 the editors at scale auto they should know what their readers think right?

p.s. my dad builds import models 2 he has a 10ft by 8ft room filled with built models ill try 2 get him 2 take pics for us. :evillol:
Dude your posts are difficult to read! Is it to hard to type out the words to, two , too and you? A capital letter denotes the beginning of a sentence as well. Don't be so lazy you have good things to contribute so make it easy to read and use proper english.

Exactly. What car am I looking to get this summer? '51-'54 Chevy Bel Air.
Oh man I am jealous. I had a 54 for a short period in High School. It was white with blue fade flames and 5 spoke american mags. Had the old blue flame six.
They used to call me greased lightining when I drove it to softball games that summer.
Post us a pic if you get one!

Exactly. What car am I looking to get this summer? '51-'54 Chevy Bel Air.


Damn! i am jealous!

i want a camaro... and i thnk me and my dad are going to buy one after the summer... i think it will be a '73 or '74

Damn! i am jealous!

i want a camaro... and i thnk me and my dad are going to buy one after the summer... i think it will be a '73 or '74
IMHO the 70 1/ 2 is the best looking one of you can find one. I ahd 71 Firebird, these are fun cars

Edit: My posts are long. If you want to just read the important part, read the bold bit.

I regret that my orignal post was so long, as it seems many people didn't read the whole thing. I just want to clarify that I'm not saying anyone needs to switch gears, as I realize that the majority of the modelling scene right now is rods and customs. Hell, don't get me wrong, I enjoy those models and those cars! And I never said that all kids like only tuners. What I was saying, and responding to (here's the concise bit: ) is that the tuner scene seems to be the bastard child of the American model scene, is regarded and as a novelty and isn't garnered the respect that other modelling subjects are (in certain venues). What I'm trying to say is that these little Japanese models are here, and are here for the long haul regardless of the "trendy" treatment they are subject to. I'm not saying they are the driving force, far from it, but I'm saying that modern cars, Japanese and American alike, deserve more respect in the modelling spotlight than they have been getting. That's all.

It's not something that can easily be solved, either, with a few articles featuring newer cars (though the ones I've read were quite good), or a column dedicated to it (thought that would be cool in the right hands). It's more of a general attitude that I've been feeling, and wanted to respond to.

Edit: My posts are long. If you want to just read the important part, read the bold bit.

I regret that my orignal post was so long, as it seems many people didn't read the whole thing. I just want to clarify that I'm not saying anyone needs to switch gears, as I realize that the majority of the modelling scene right now is rods and customs. Hell, don't get me wrong, I enjoy those models and those cars! And I never said that all kids like only tuners. What I was saying, and responding to (here's the concise bit: ) is that the tuner scene seems to be the bastard child of the American model scene, is regarded and as a noveltly and isn't garnered the respect that other modelling subjects are (in certain venues). What I'm trying to say is that these little Japanese models are here, and are here for the long haul regardless of the "trendy" treatment they are subject to. I'm not saying they are the driving force, far from it, but I'm saying that modern cars, Japanese and American alike, deserve more respect in the modelling spotlight than they have been getting. That's all.

It's not something that can easily be solved, either, with a few articles featuring newer cars (though the ones I've read were quite good), or a column dedicated to it (thought that would be cool in the right hands). It's more of a general attitude that I've been feeling, and wanted to respond to.
Thats Americana for you , we embrace all things American. Baseball is our national sport, we love Rock and Roll, Hot Rods and Classic cars. How di dthat commersil go , Apple Pie and Cheverolet?
Anyhow I see your point but things aren't apt to change quickly, the import scen is in its infancy here, like hot rods in the 30s, 40s and 50s was.
Don't get me wron I like imports too, I drive a tuned Golf SPort to work daily and wouldn't trade it for anything less than an R-32 :naughty: , but my real passion is muscle cars and old Ford Hot Rods and I would have garage full if I could.

Maybe its time for one of you younger guys to step up to the plate and present Jim and Andy with a new import/tuner section for SA. Not to generalize or hurt anyones feelings but the younger generation could do less complaining and critisizing and go out and do something to change things. Otherwise its just :banghead: and more :banghead: and then some :banghead:
Or maybe you all think this old guy is just :screwy: :screwy:
:icon16:
Peace, I look forward to seeing one of you published in SA with your own column

As a relatively young (25 yrs old) model builder who has read SAE for the last ten years, I have to say that SAE puts out an excellent resource for any modeller looking to gain inspiration, ideas, and hone their building skills. SAE has given me so much over the years.....
That being said, I think the originator of this thread is on to something.... SAE needs to follow through with actions to ensure that younger modellers feel included and their interests are met with the magazine. I beleive this can be done by including more tuner and exotic/modern car coverage in the magazine. Today's builders are still very much into nostalgia/street rods/old school though, and their needs must still be met: they are the bread and butter of magazines like SAE.
I think a realistic solution would be to start an import/tuner column in SAE to attract the fast growing, tuner-crazy segment of builders. (It could replace the controversial 1:1 car spotlight. Let's face it; if I want reference material, I will find it myself. That's what books/internet are for!) To keep it inline with the true tuner crowd, though, I beleive it is up to people such as ourselves to steer the direction of the magazine by participation. Nothing is solved by just doing a lot of complaining; particularily to a magazine such as SAE which relies heavily on reader-submitted articles. It is up to us to submit new articles, tips, etc. to promote this part of the model building spectrum.
I have yet to submit an article to SAE, but I am planning on doing this in the future. Sorry if this sounded preachy, but it is just my 2 pennies worth.....

One more year of college and I'm up to it... perhaps. But like I said, my skills aren't really up to standards. I can't write, build, or photograph well enough to do anything like that. Eventually, I will try submitting an article, but it's a ways off.

Yeah I hear you there. Its a time thing for me, full time job, new house that needs landscaping........
I have managed to get an article or two out and got some contest coverage published in Model Cars Mag.
I bet you are up to it Willmo, ou wil be published one day

I called Scale Auto yesterday and talked to Andy, he said that they have talked about a section but not in the next issue. First there needs to be more articles submitted. He also said that NNL east 2005 will also tell what the hobby reflects. The theme is Tuners :sunglasse . So it sounds like they are game to the idea, just need people to step up and do the articles so if you want to see a Tuner section start working on a article and submit it and see what happens. Also to note Andy was a real nice guy and answered all my questions and listened to my input.

Charlie

I'm impressed by the thoughtful comments on this subject, and the generally level-headed responses.

Only one response in this entire thread would I consider disappointing. It contained far too much negativity, heresay, and several instances of completely fabricated "truths" (in other words, total BS). That's not what this hobby is about. Thankfully others have stepped up, and even made contact w/Scale Auto. If they are to truly reflect the hobby and the direction that it is taking, they will listen. They must to survive, and I think that is in their game plan. :)

There where alot of Tuners at this years NNL East, alot more then I've see at other shows, tuner modeling is deffinently becomeing more main stream, I'm already working on my import for next years show

also happy too see SA has interest in doing a Tuner section, hopefully it'll be very informative

I'm impressed by the thoughtful comments on this subject, and the generally level-headed responses.

Only one response in this entire thread would I consider disappointing. It contained far too much negativity, heresay, and several instances of completely fabricated "truths" (in other words, total BS). That's not what this hobby is about. Thankfully others have stepped up, and even made contact w/Scale Auto. If they are to truly reflect the hobby and the direction that it is taking, they will listen. They must to survive, and I think that is in their game plan. :)

:worshippy Well said!

Well Bob, I didn't see a reply more negative than mine, so I'll take the brunt of this one.

I was an avid reader of Scale Auto Enthusiast from 1989 up until a year or so after the Kalmbach purchase. After that, I noticed a lack of the pressure SAE put on the manufacturers to continue improving their releases. I noticed fewer feature models. Fewer poor reviews telling us what kits not to buy. Fewer articles on aftermarket parts. But I did notice more ads and diecast.

I noticed that the writers I'd come to respect and admire were leaving the magazine. I'd noticed that the niche columns were disappearing. I noticed a general lack of focus on building models and the models that have been built.

Look at the '99-'00 Contest Annual compared to the '01 Contest Annual. '01 replaced multi-page features on models that stomped on their competition and raised the bar for all of us with "Model Contest Basics", "Model Building Tips from Don Theune", and "How to better photograph your models."

No feature on Dennis Koebler's 100% scratchbuilt 1:12th scale GT40 MkIV or Pat Dunnivan's Jaguar powered T-bucket or Van Butler's "Ala Altered" or Greg Nichols's "VW 2000 GT1". C'mon guys. Did we all turn into novices overnight?

I want Scale Auto Enthusiast back. Plain and simple. I want the Enthusiast's magazine that catered to hardcore builders who valued accuracy, creativity, and quality instead of the, quite frankly, panty-waisted marketing tool that Scale Auto has become.

Due your posts are difficult to read! Is it to hard to type out the words to, two , too and you? A capital letter denotes the beginning of a sentence as well. Don't be so lazy you have goof things to contribute so make it easy to read and use proper english.
if u dont like the way i write my posts dont read them im not gonna change the way i write because one person cant read it cuz its not proper if u dont like the way i write them dont read them simple as that im sorry that was mean but thats how i think it is in my head

Well, that was an ugly sentance.

For sure.

I can't read what you write either. You'd be amazed what punctuation, grammar, and spelling can all do as far as facilitating communication. Personally, I don't care how you write, but don't expect anyone to read it and respect you or your opinion. Writing how you think is easy, it takes a moment and a little thought to write in a way other people can read. This may sound like a cheap flame, but c'mon, seriously, we're trying to raise the bar around here, especially with threads like this one....

if u dont like the way i write my posts dont read them im not gonna change the way i write because one person cant read it cuz its not proper if u dont like the way i write them dont read them simple as that im sorry that was mean but thats how i think it is in my head
Then you run the risk of someone (me) getting sick of reading jibberish and banning you. Your choice. Education is too precious to let pass you by. Get one and use it wisely. Thank you.

Then you run the risk of someone (me) getting sick of reading jibberish and banning you. Your choice. Education is too precious to let pass you by. Get one and use it wisely. Thank you.
its BS if your gonna ban me for my opinion but whatever do what u gotta do

Not for your opinion, for your refusal to write like you have some sense.

Not for your opinion, for your refusal to write like you have some sense.
the way i see it is this is my keyboard connected 2 my computer if i want 2 type like this in my house i will all u had 2 do was ask insed of putting me down about schooling and intellagence. all u had 2 do was ask nicely like willimo did and i woulda changed the way i type ive done it once here already all u had 2 do was ask and ill start typing with some "sense" from now on

Well Bob, I didn't see a reply more negative than mine, so I'll take the brunt of this one.

I want Scale Auto Enthusiast back. Plain and simple. I want the Enthusiast's magazine that catered to hardcore builders who valued accuracy, creativity, and quality instead of the, quite frankly, panty-waisted marketing tool that Scale Auto has become.

I'm not trying to pick on you for what you feel, but I think you're missing the point in some ways. I don't heap praise where it's not deserved, and IMHO Scale Auto is doing a much better job these days-you may not have noticed if you haven't read it. Further, you still have the "old" Scale Auto Enthusiast in spirit at least, in the pages of Model Cars Magazine, which itself is a far cry from it's crude beginnings as The Plastic Fanatic. Scale Auto is trying to polish their act, in look/feel and content, and a polished magazine requires advertising-so yes, they will be a marketing tool-it's what's required for a magazine like that to survive. I don't like that they killed off Car Modeler, but if it had been paying for itself, don't you think it would still be around? It's a business, plain and simple. It has to make a profit to survive and shareholders to satisfy. This hobby is changing, has changed, and the magazine reflects it. I still enjoy it as much as I ever have, and a lot of naysayers are also in agreement that it has been improving. They still get decent quality stuff submitted, so the sky hasn't completely fallen. It's not perfect for me, it never will be-my tastes are too eclectic and too subject to change on a whim. Cheer up, your prayers have been answered already (Model Cars), but you're letting yourself be blinded by previous disappointments. Many of the writers who left Scale Auto have set up shop w/Model Cars, with fewer restrictions than previously. What's not to like about that?

I wish the original "Automobile Magazine" would come back. It's sucked royally since it's founder left. I love their editor, but for some reason as soon as she got that job, the quality of the magazine and it's credo "no boring cars" went to hell in a handbasket-I could care less if I ever see another road test or buyer's guide for SUV's. Yet I don't harbor animosity..it's the ebb and flow of business, I took my business elsewhere and didn't look back. You've done the same w/Scale Auto, that's your right, but it's time to let it go...know what I mean?

the way i see it is this is my keyboard connected 2 my computer if i want 2 type like this in my house i will all u had 2 do was ask insed of putting me down about schooling and intellagence. all u had 2 do was ask nicely like willimo did and i woulda changed the way i type ive done it once here already all u had 2 do was ask and ill start typing with some "sense" from now on
No one has put you down, in fact I said you had some good comments to make but your posts are difficult to read.

I called Scale Auto yesterday and talked to Andy, he said that they have talked about a section but not in the next issue. First there needs to be more articles submitted. He also said that NNL east 2005 will also tell what the hobby reflects. The theme is Tuners :sunglasse . So it sounds like they are game to the idea, just need people to step up and do the articles so if you want to see a Tuner section start working on a article and submit it and see what happens. Also to note Andy was a real nice guy and answered all my questions and listened to my input.

Charlie
Thats taking action, way to go Charlie