Technique forum please?

I would like to see a technique forum around here because, although I spend alot of time trying to perfect my technique and now consider myself to be pretty fast at street racing drift (FF), I still think that there is more to learn and I think a forum dedicated to this sort of thing would be pretty cool. For example I can only link some pairs of corners under braking in my 2 and I want to be able to do it everywhere, without e-brake of course and especially in pairs of faster corners. I am a deciple of race drift, especially in FF cars and I love going faster. So anyone who does this sort of stuff I'd like to talk to. Scandinavian flicks on tarmac too. Are they faster than the braking technique?

HAND BRAKING is an essential for FF... it's the best bet to get some nice 'drifts'...

You may also want to try left foot-braking in your FF... takes time to get used to though so practice in a safe area by yourself...

Don't count on a FF-DRIFT FORUM... you are practically alone on this one, buddy... g'luck though!

What kind of technique do you want to know?

Essentially for FF its either braking or e-brake drift. You need to carry a certain amount of speed on every corner so you can transfer enough weight to the front and break rear tire traction.

This is difficult when you try connecting corners because you end up loosing momentum through the series of turns. g'luck

We have a this forum already, for discussing all forms FF FR RR, whatever else you might want...
Unless you're going down hill, it'd be rather hard to link more than two corners together with FF, but downhill, simply lifting off of the throttle will produce oversteer without losing more speed than you would by going around the corner without losing rear traction (and in some cases is actually faster)

I don't just mean for FF cars. Just a driving technique forum in general.

I don't tend to do a huge amount of "show drift" so I don't bother with the hand brake, I find the small angle "fast drift" at turn in is more satisfying and probably requires more skill which is why i like challenging myself with it. I'd much prefer to be seen using a combination of braking drift and the scandinavian flick to do my drift than grabbing a whole lot of handbrake. The angle isn't important to me because I recognise that while FF cars can drift they can't maintain a drift for very long without the ability to power oversteer. So you could say I've been forced into the kind of drift that I do. My favorite FR beating move though is to get up heaps of speed then brake for a tight corner through a sweeper in the other direction. The rear will invariably slide and at the right point you release the brake and the weight will transfer across and you drift through the tight corner. However I am yet to perfect this move and I thought that I could exchange info with some other drivers of my type. Even FR drivers cos this move is the same regardless of drivetrain. My main aim in using drift when I do is to go faster on the "Downhill". I'm the quickest in my city at the moment on the Downhill but then, only two of us do it... Road racing is not very popular in Australia, everybody still thinks fast and the furious was a great movie and that drag racing is all that import cars are good for. Still I'm gonna challenge this Silvia, driving chrome wheeled, no talent, drag racer and see if he accepts after all I only drive a mazda 2 ; ) shhh... I haven't been practising that downhill every second day for two years...

Well, I can tell you all sorts of tricks you've probably never heard of that I've learned on the oval tracks.

Ever hear of diamonding a corner? How about a slidejob? And ten to one you've never tried backing it in or hanging it up on the cushion.

The "downhill", "touge", or "mountain pass" is not the end-all, be-all of courses. In fact, I have said it many a time; any racing not done on closed circuits is bunk for developing skills. You spend too much time at less than 10/10ths worrying about oncoming traffic and police "interference". You don't spend enough time at the utmost of your skills reading the car and you don't have any margin to make an error to determine your limits. You can barely push it to 100% on the street, and can rarely if ever try 110%.

A closed circuit will always help you find your limitations sooner and allow you to develop them quicker.

Unlike in the US, not every square centimetre of ground is populated so I can drive for 30mins out to my local downhill and never see a cop on any day except sunday when it is populated by crazies on GSXR1000's and R1's. That's in Australia's capital city too. Mind you there's only 300,000 people in the national capital... My downhill is somewhat of a redundant road and is on the side of a cliff so there are no farm driveways. Fortunately, there is only one corner where you are actually likely to crash if you get out of control. I used to do circuit racing, but I have to drive for more than an hour to get to the nearest track so nowadays I don't even bother with track days. To add to that, my car only makes 115bhp and is pretty boring on a racetrack. On the mountain however, it can hang with silvias and blow's away commodores (4 door pontiac gto) and falcons (ford equivalent) because I have done quite a bit of work with the local suspension place finding the right springrates and roll bar thickness etc and my car is 300kg lighter than a silvia and 700kg lighter than an Australian sedan. As a result of my car's light weight and low power, I find that I am able to challenge myself much more on a good tight mountain than on a track. The particular piece of road I use is narrow, sandy and covered in ash from the big fires that took out a few suburbs a while back. All this combines to make it a very challenging piece of road. Some things can never be replicated on a race track. Controlling a car, on the limit, when the next move of the car is completely unknown is a skill confined to only rally and street racing. Street racing is very much like tarmac rally really, so it is kinda respectable as a real motorsport even though it's illegal.

By the way, why exactly do you like drifting? If you think that the mountains are useless? They're the origin of drift. Drift is just a show of the fast drift skills that you learn ON THE DOWNHILL.

People who drive downhill have got a bad reputation in the US as far as I can gather, and I can only assume that's because people think that they're just jumping on the Initial D bandwagon. Over here nobody knows what Initial D is and they take our downhill driving as what it is. And before you ask, yes I have been doing this for longer than I've known about Initial D.

And wow your bet has payed off! I do "back it in". Your other techniques, be they oval racing ones or US names for them, I haven't heard of. Even during my time spent racing and karting. It's like the Scandinavian flick, Aussies and the euros call it that and the japanese and you guys call it "Inertia Drift". Unless you explain it, it's unlikely that I'll know what you're on about.

I think drift competitions are fun and a welcome brake from competitive driving. And I'm familiar with the techniques and the feel of drifting because of my background in sprint cars and the like.

Here's the terms I described

Backing it in: You over rotate the car at high speed so that it starts to slide backwards as it goes around the corner. This is used in tight cambered corners as it provides for a bit of a springboard effect as you gun it out of the corner.

Slidejob: (used in double apex corners) moving your line away from the first apex to slide up, hook high in the corner, and then blast down to the second apex where your much more diagonal line throws up a block upon exiting the corner.

Diamonding: (used in double apex corner) clipping the first apex, shooting to the outermost edge of the corner and then holding that outside line. (so called because when you do it at both ends of the track it resembles a diamond)

Hanging it up on the cushion: A dirt track exclusive. When running a dirt oval, a thick ridge of topsoil, rubber, and clay builds up at the very top edge of the track. This is the fastest line around the track as you can park your right rear right up on that thing and just about flat foot it around the whole track. But it has its tricks. First of all, you're usually no more than a foot away from the wall, so a bobble will catch you out and cost you time and/or machinery. Secondly, as the race goes on, the cushion gets smaller and moves even closer to the wall.

Ah, now you see, I have never raced speedway and have only been to watch a few times. Our local speedway closed down about 8 years ago because it's not a very big sport in australia. "Backing it in" seems to have numerous different meanings, for example for motorbike riders it meansbraking especially hard with the front brake so that the rear wheel lifts a little and swings to the outside then dropping the wheel as you turn in so that the bike is already pointing into the corner. This is often coupled with clutchless downshifting. Similarly from where I live, on tarmac, it refers to a similar procedure where the car is sliding before turn in, especially at hairpins where it is like pulling the handbrake and you kind of slide backwards into the corner in hairpins but not as severe as in speedway. I've seen what you're talking about though and it's based on the same thing.

What should you do if your in a RWD car and you start to over turn? So much so that you are afraid you might spin out. I know in a Fwd car you step on the gas but what abput RWD cars?

It's ironic how you have a FWD car yet you try to concentrate on Drifting a FWD car yet you want to RACE.

If i were you, i would invest my time in learning how to drive fast via GRIP. Yes, utilize your knowledge in drift to rotate or position your car for the best possible exit, but in a FWD format you will be more competetive as a Grip Driver.

If you are really serious about drift i would then consider a RWD car.

Also, if you are again SERIOUS about any kind of motorsport, may it be drift or grip i would definitely consider some track time. This is the only way you can truly test your skills and knowledge. But if your only in it for fun then you can stick to what you're doing right now.

Touge is fun and all but like many before us have said, if you cannot master your skills on the track, your skills mean nothing.

Well, D12, it depends a lot on why the car is oversteering.

If the tail is stepping out under braking, then ease up on the brakes and open up your steering.

If the tail is stepping out when you're on the throttle, then let up on the throttle and feed in a bit of countersteer.

So are we gonna have a technique forum or what?

I've encountered some problems drifting, and i need some help. Seems like the only way i can drift at high-speed is braking, and the only way I can drift at slower speeds is with the throttle. If i want to drift better in higher gears do I necessarily need more horsepower? I'd like to be able to drift without using any brakes at all. Its probable that the harsh reality is 135bhp wont drift perfectly without some more get-up. I don't get alot of info on technique, I'm used to just sliding sideways around turns without really knowing why. Its all based on skills I learned on gravel roads in West Virginia. I'm trying to do alot of the same things on tarmac, but its very difficult. Somebody help me.

Well you could do a Scandinavian flick. Which is where you steer the opposite way you want go and quickly flick it back causing the car overseer. This might be a little sketchy at high speed though.

When I try the scandanavian flick on tarmac do I keep the throttle on the whole time, if not, at what point should I take the throttle off? I also would like to know where an american could purchase good rally videos, I dont have SPEED channel.

what kind of car do you have bmw drifeter?

1997 318i

well right before the flick is where you let off the throttle then as you slide you get back on the throttle. At least I think that is how its suppose to go. Not sure because I have never done it.

If your 318i is an automatic... then get one that isn't. That is all I can say about that.

When I flick my 2002 into a tail slide, I usually just downshift into second at the crucial moment. I never try to get the tail out with lift off oversteer. If I'm lifting off in a high speed corner, it either means it's decreasing radius or there's a bee in my eye (and I'm about to meet Mr. Roadside Hedge).

Ah, old cars rock...

My 318i is a manual, second gear is the best to get the tail out, but it only works if i'm going 25mph, and the turn is really small. What about a braking drift in 3rd gear? Explain to me the best way to accomplish this. I also want to know the best tires for losing traction on purpose

Scandinavian flick works like so: turn car the wrong way approaching the corner while lifting off if you're approaching relatively slowly or braking if you're more confident and going faster, then right as the car loads up on that side fully release the brake and nail the throttle, or just nail the throttle if you are lifting off.

Braking drift is an extention of trail braking (braking in towards the apex to enhance turn in) but you enter faster, brake harder and steer more. Basically, you unload the rear tires then load the car up hard enough to make it slide. Once again you then nail the throttle. The better you get the less steering work you will require to make the car slide.

For drift tires, you can go to a scrapyard or buy cheap no name style tires with the minimum tread width that fits your rims. Running too much pressure in the rears helps as well if your purpose is just going sideways, obviously this will cause them to wear quickly and in the centre.

Sorry that should say this:

Scandinavian flick works like so: turn car the wrong way approaching the corner while lifting off if you're approaching relatively slowly or braking if you're more confident and going faster, then right as the car loads up on that side turn into the corner, and once the weight is shifting across to the other side fully release the brake and nail the throttle, or just nail the throttle if you are lifting off.

Does anybody here try drifting on dirt and gravel roads. (Not necessarily drifting but tail-out driving). and if so whats the easiest way not to hit a tree when your understeering, and the steering wheels at full lock in the direction you want to go, -shift down , drop the clutch and floor it? I also want to know why people are caught up on things like "downhill", and "streetracing", illegitimate gravel rally is by far the funnest thing I've ever done. If you want to leave the drifting forum, and go to the rally forum I will, the problem is that all the threads in the rally forum are by people who dont participate in the actual execution of the sport.

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Here's the terms I described
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Slidejob: (used in double apex corners) moving your line away from the first apex to slide up, hook high in the corner, and then blast down to the second apex where your much more diagonal line throws up a block upon exiting the corner.

Diamonding: (used in double apex corner) clipping the first apex, shooting to the outermost edge of the corner and then holding that outside line. (so called because when you do it at both ends of the track it resembles a diamond)
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I'm surprised no one caught this sooner...I believe the terms and descriptions here are reversed. A slide job is an increasing radius line, usually this line is used on an oval passing someone on corner entry, then sliding up to block the car on the higher line. Most common on dirt ovals where running on the cushion is the faster overall line, or on tracks where the high line is faster (Indianapolis Raceway Park comes to mind as an example), but needed to pass someone.

Diamonding is usually used in high powered cars where increased corner entry speed and getting on the throttle sooner is exchanged for a slightly lower mid corner speed. The Nextel Cup cars at Bristol are a good example, where mid-corner the cars are 5-10 feet off the bottom of the track in the center of the corner, but are right on the bottom in corner entry and corner exit. Another example on a road courde is Big Bend (turn 1) at Lime Rock Park, where the next SPEED World Challenge race is from. Here the diamonding is due to other factors (the corner is decreasing radius), and works in low powered cars as well.

Does anybody here try drifting on dirt and gravel roads. (Not necessarily drifting but tail-out driving). and if so whats the easiest way not to hit a tree when your understeering, and the steering wheels at full lock...

Don't turn the wheel so much. Agh, I can't imagine thrashing an E36 like that. They're really not meant for that (no matter how well they perform) type of thing. BMW never intended their cars to be out in the woods with ten sets of driving lights on the roof and gravel eating away at the floorpan. E36's are such nice looking cars. :nono:

Get a 320i to trash, or a datsun B210.