White's Only, others need not apply.....

Excuse my language, but its about fucking time someone took this bold step in protest of affirmative action.
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http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/nation/2404063

Associated Press

BRISTOL, R.I. -- A student group at Roger Williams University is offering a new scholarship for which only white students are eligible, a move they say is designed to protest affirmative action.

The application for the $50 award requires an essay on "why you are proud of your white heritage" and a recent picture to "confirm whiteness."

"Evidence of bleaching will disqualify applicants," says the application, issued by the university's College Republicans.

Jason Mattera, 20, who is president of the College Republicans, said the group is parodying minority scholarships.

"White kids are at a handicap," Mattera told The Providence Journal. "Handing out scholarships based on someone's color is absurd."

The stunt has angered some at the university, but the administration is staying of the fray. The school's provost said it is a student group's initiative and is not endorsed by Roger Williams.

Mattera, who is of Puerto Rican descent, is himself is a recipient of a $5,000 scholarship open only to a minority group.

"No matter what my ethnicity is, I'm making a statement that scholarships should be given out based on merit and need," he said.

It's not the first brush with controversy for the group. The school temporarily froze the Republicans' money in the fall during a fight over a series of articles published in its monthly newsletter. One article alleged that a gay-rights group indoctrinates students into homosexual sex.

Its about damn time! Affirmative Action is the most hypocritical,racist, illegal, anti-equal-rights program ever. It is exactly the opposite of its intended purpose and provides such a ridiculous double standard. It,simply put, is just a dumbass idea and a turd of a program.

Its about damn time! Affirmative Action is the most hypocritical,racist, illegal, anti-equal-rights program ever. It is exactly the opposite of its intended purpose and provides such a ridiculous double standard. It,simply put, is just a dumbass idea and a turd of a program.
pretty much how does it equal anything out if you only help a group? I mean I know a man of color who got 1000 for school yet his family makes more then mine *alot at that* and we have enough that we don't get any thing I also get better grades then him. So how does that help anyone? I mean explain this one to me.

HAHA! "White's only"! I Love it!

cripes i hate PC

Mattera, who is of Puerto Rican descent, is himself is a recipient of a $5,000 scholarship open only to a minority group.

"No matter what my ethnicity is, I'm making a statement that scholarships should be given out based on merit and need," he said.


If thats so, then shouldnt he have refused such a scholarship since it was based on race? I mean there are white people out there with just as much merit and need as him! RRR....Its hard not to blow up about things like this!

Yeah, I'm glad someone is finally doing something about this. Affirmative action could be the new slang phrase for 'hippocrasy'. I can't stand the fact that people have gotten away with it for so long and I wish a 'whites only' private college would open to further protest affirmative action! The sad thing is that 'racism' is only continuing to exist because 'minorities' continue to consider themsleves different than everyone else.

Affirmative action could be the new slang phrase for 'hippocrasy'
Instead of hypocrites that'd be "affirmative actors" :)
Affirmative action is really the most blatant, umitigated, stupidity existing today.
To promote "equality" by a giving a few people special privileges over others? How incredibly idiotic.

Let me throw this in. Is it equal that most non-minority kids go to better schools that do most minotiry groups?
Is it equal that minority schools teachers are paid less than the non-minority schools teachers therfore the non-minority schools draw the better teachers?
Is it equal that a larger percentage of minorities live below the poverty level than do non-minorities?
I'm not a big proponent of affimative action but I understand and agree with the basic concept of it.
I do believe it has been abused in recent years but the idea of giving someone who is deserving and shows promise a hand that they didn't get growing up in a bad area is a good one. That doesn't mean that that hand should only go to minorities but anyone who shows promise and is obviously working to get out of the situation they were born into.

Let me throw this in. Is it equal that most non-minority kids go to better schools that do most minotiry groups?
Is it equal that minority schools teachers are paid less than the non-minority schools teachers therfore the non-minority schools draw the better teachers?
Is it equal that a larger percentage of minorities live below the poverty level than do non-minorities?
I'm not a big proponent of affimative action but I understand and agree with the basic concept of it.
I do believe it has been abused in recent years but the idea of giving someone who is deserving and shows promise a hand that they didn't get growing up in a bad area is a good one. That doesn't mean that that hand should only go to minorities but anyone who shows promise and is obviously working to get out of the situation they were born into.

Nothing you say is inaccurate but what affirmative action does is penalize people for social inadequacies at the expense of people who had nothing to do with its cause. This is another example between the basis of liberals and conservatives. Liberals see those inadequacies and will move heaven and earth to right them regardless of the people it hurts along the way. Conservatives see the same inadequacies and will move heaven and earth to open the doors for people to make the way for themselves. The problem (as seen by liberals) is that it takes much longer and doesn’t punish the successful.













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seems like its one of those things which meets an action with a negative reaction. Not cool

It's not often I agree with the Republicans,but on this occasion I do.Racism is racism,does'nt matter how you dress it up.

The hard fact is that not everyone on this planet is born equal.I could have had a much better life if I'd been born into the family of a multi-millionaire,but that's no reason for me to go seeking 'Affirmitive action' to bring me up into the luxury launch owners club.

There are many people of all races who could do with the occasional 'hand up'.They stand less chance of making it when others are creaming off the social spending in misguided handouts.

The world is getting smaller,and populations are getting more and more blended.It's time to accept that the colour of your skin is not a meal ticket as repayment for wrongs against your grandparents.

It's not just America either.Even in this country,there's an unseemly rush to get a hand in the PC poorbox.And when people who are as white as I am are eligigble for consolation prizes because their mother's sisters' brother-in-laws' great grandfather was killed in the settlement wars of the 1800's,the alarm bells ring loud.

It's not often I agree with the Republicans,but on this occasion I do.Racism is racism,does'nt matter how you dress it up.

The hard fact is that not everyone on this planet is born equal.I could have had a much better life if I'd been born into the family of a multi-millionaire,but that's no reason for me to go seeking 'Affirmitive action' to bring me up into the luxury launch owners club.

There are many people of all races who could do with the occasional 'hand up'.They stand less chance of making it when others are creaming off the social spending in misguided handouts.

The world is getting smaller,and populations are getting more and more blended.It's time to accept that the colour of your skin is not a meal ticket as repayment for wrongs against your grandparents.

It's not just America either.Even in this country,there's an unseemly rush to get a hand in the PC poorbox.And when people who are as white as I am are eligigble for consolation prizes because their mother's sisters' brother-in-laws' great grandfather was killed in the settlement wars of the 1800's,the alarm bells ring loud.


DAMN MAN! I couldn't have said it better myself! It might make me feel like an ass-kisser to say so, but that was one of the best little rants against affirmative action I've ever seen! Right on!

Affirmative action to me is basically minorites saying......"White People got to be rascist to us, so now its our turn." Instead of equality, minorities are proclaiming that they should be treated specialy instead of equally. If minorities can get money for school by being of a race other than whites why can't I get college grants for being white. Yes its true that most whites make more than ethnics but hell Im poor as shit, why can't I get grants for that? Oh because Im white so I must be rich :eek7:

As I said; I am not a big proponent of affirmative action but I understand and agree with the basic concept of it. I know that there is still a lot of prejudice out there and it comes from both sides. The problem is that there isn't a representative amount of minorities in positions of power to effect an even change in hiring practices. I'm not saying to hire someone who isn't qualified to do a job but the thread is about scholarships and that is what I'm addressing. I don't see how giving scholarships to someone who is deserving and shows promise is penalizing anyone. If there were no social inadequacies then that scolarship wouldn't exist and no one would get it. So either no one gets it or a minority gets it. How does that hurt a non minority? These scholarships are usually funded but companies and private donars who believe in the good it can do for those who are deserving.
As far as having a better life being born into a rich family. You could have had it a lot worse being born into a minority family in an inner city . If you were and desperatly wanted to get out how would you do it? Wouldn't you try and take advantage of whatever assistance was offered? What if there was nothing out there? There would be reason to try. Scholarships aren't abundant enough to help all those who are deserving. In fact they help very few in comparison to the amount they leave behind. So it's not like all the poor minorities are getting a free ride while all the poor non-minorities are suffering. It's a handfull of people who are getting a hand. Scholarships aren't easy to get and only are given out to those who most likely worked their butt off dispite the discouraging conditions they were born into and dispite the odds against them. Why would you want to take that away just so no one could have it?

As I said; I am not a big proponent of affirmative action but I understand and agree with the basic concept of it. I know that there is still a lot of prejudice out there and it comes from both sides. The problem is that there isn't a representative amount of minorities in positions of power to effect an even change in hiring practices. I'm not saying to hire someone who isn't qualified to do a job but the thread is about scholarships and that is what I'm addressing. I don't see how giving scholarships to someone who is deserving and shows promise is penalizing anyone. If there were no social inadequacies then that scolarship wouldn't exist and no one would get it. So either no one gets it or a minority gets it. How does that hurt a non minority? These scholarships are usually funded but companies and private donars who believe in the good it can do for those who are deserving.
As far as having a better life being born into a rich family. You could have had it a lot worse being born into a minority family in an inner city . If you were and desperatly wanted to get out how would you do it? Wouldn't you try and take advantage of whatever assistance was offered? What if there was nothing out there? There would be reason to try. Scholarships aren't abundant enough to help all those who are deserving. In fact they help very few in comparison to the amount they leave behind. So it's not like all the poor minorities are getting a free ride while all the poor non-minorities are suffering. It's a handfull of people who are getting a hand. Scholarships aren't easy to get and only are given out to those who most likely worked their butt off dispite the discouraging conditions they were born into and dispite the odds against them. Why would you want to take that away just so no one could have it?

I see what you're saying. However, its things like affirmative action that keep fueling the fire of racism. IMO.

I don't disagree with you on that.

Ten foot pole. That's 3.2 meters, for the rest of us.

Honestly I am so tried of people saying that minorities keep racism going. The fact is its everywhere and unless you’re a minority you probable don’t see it. Its called subconscious racism, at least that’s what I call it. What SR is basically is any act or reaction based on nothing other then appearance. Example would be if you where walking down the street and someone drops their things and you choose to help them but then the same thing happens to someone else but you don’t help them. Well why didn’t you help that second person? Notice I didn’t say a black person or Hispanic person because SR applies to everyone and everyone does it. It’s just it happens to some people more then others. A resent example from my life is a girl who lives up the street from me. Recently when I was on the Bus and we where talking she mentioned that she used to be afraid of me. So much so that she didn’t like to walk to her friends house because she knew that I some times biked that street. Now I asked her why and she said it was because I used to pick on her. Well I thought back and I had indeed made a joke or two about her, but nothing really to prompt her to be afraid of me. Also their were three other kids on the bus who really made fun of her all were white one was a boy the other two were girls and they harassed this girl to no end. One girl even almost attack this girl. The boy even lived down the street from this girls friend and I did not. So I asked this girl if she was afraid of the other boy who lived down the street from her friend. And she said no. I think she then realized what she said and seemed a little embarrassed. So I think this illustrates my point. This girl is not what you would picture as a racist he a little hot blond not some big red neck hick. Now think about this, what if I was a person applying for a job at her work? Its more then likely she would pick a non minority to fill the job at her work. Or since we are talking collage what if she was on the board who pick who gets in and who doesn’t? She would be more inclined to choose a non minority applicant over a minority. See this is what is happening all over America, there are millions of people just like her and they are in politics, schools, and businesses. So that is why minorities need a helping hand in things. And I admit affirmative action sucks, the system sucks and at almost 16 I can see that but what can you do? Its better then nothing being done. So next time before you say that’s not fair think about all the breaks you as a non minority get with out you probably even knowing.

Just for reference I live in CT in a fairly well off community of mostly white. I have lived in three different towns and have been lucky enough to experience many different situations. I my self am a minority.

Honestly I am so tried of people saying that minorities keep racism going. The fact is its everywhere and unless you’re a minority you probable don’t see it. Its called subconscious racism, at least that’s what I call it. What SR is basically is any act or reaction based on nothing other then appearance. Example would be if you where walking down the street and someone drops their things and you choose to help them but then the same thing happens to someone else but you don’t help them. Well why didn’t you help that second person? Notice I didn’t say a black person or Hispanic person because SR applies to everyone and everyone does it. It’s just it happens to some people more then others. A resent example from my life is a girl who lives up the street from me. Recently when I was on the Bus and we where talking she mentioned that she used to be afraid of me. So much so that she didn’t like to walk to her friends house because she knew that I some times biked that street. Now I asked her why and she said it was because I used to pick on her. Well I thought back and I had indeed made a joke or two about her, but nothing really to prompt her to be afraid of me. Also their were three other kids on the bus who really made fun of her all were white one was a boy the other two were girls and they harassed this girl to no end. One girl even almost attack this girl. The boy even lived down the street from this girls friend and I did not. So I asked this girl if she was afraid of the other boy who lived down the street from her friend. And she said no. I think she then realized what she said and seemed a little embarrassed. So I think this illustrates my point. This girl is not what you would picture as a racist he a little hot blond not some big red neck hick. Now think about this, what if I was a person applying for a job at her work? Its more then likely she would pick a non minority to fill the job at her work. Or since we are talking collage what if she was on the board who pick who gets in and who doesn’t? She would be more inclined to choose a non minority applicant over a minority. See this is what is happening all over America, there are millions of people just like her and they are in politics, schools, and businesses. So that is why minorities need a helping hand in things. And I admit affirmative action sucks, the system sucks and at almost 16 I can see that but what can you do? Its better then nothing being done. So next time before you say that’s not fair think about all the breaks you as a non minority get with out you probably even knowing.

Just for reference I live in CT in a fairly well off community of mostly white. I have lived in three different towns and have been lucky enough to experience many different situations. I my self am a minority.



How many times did you say 'minority'? What everyone is talking about when they refer to 'minorities' keeping themselves down, is how THEY seperate themselves from the rest of society in a good many ways, even reffering to themselves differently. 'The Black community', 'The Latino community', 'black leaders', 'latino leaders'. Even in congress they have a 'black caucus' where black congressmen and senators meet to discuss issues that relate to 'their community'. If you don't want to be treated different, then don't consider yourselves different and cry 'racist' for being treated differently.

As for growing up poor and being oppressed because of it, don't hand me that line of BS. It's up to every individual as to whether or not they'll make something out of their lives. Look at the WW2 generation, most of them didn't grow up in any big cities, but they sure as hell grew up poor! Did they join gangs or do drugs? Some of them did, because they chose to. Did a great many of them decide to go to school and get a job or start working for themselves? They sure did, most of the time without any aid from Uncle Sam either! Today, there are all sorts of grants and super-cheap loans that are offered to anyone wanting to go to school or start a business. If someone isn't successful or at least making a decent living, it's THEIR fault, no one elses!

How many times did you say 'minority'? What everyone is talking about when they refer to 'minorities' keeping themselves down, is how THEY seperate themselves from the rest of society in a good many ways, even reffering to themselves differently. 'The Black community', 'The Latino community', 'black leaders', 'latino leaders'. Even in congress they have a 'black caucus' where black congressmen and senators meet to discuss issues that relate to 'their community'. If you don't want to be treated different, then don't consider yourselves different and cry 'racist' for being treated differently.
What would cause the different treatment? Their race? As for growing up poor and being oppressed because of it, don't hand me that line of BS. It's up to every individual as to whether or not they'll make something out of their lives. Look at the WW2 generation, most of them didn't grow up in any big cities, but they sure as hell grew up poor! Did they join gangs or do drugs? Some of them did, because they chose to. Did a great many of them decide to go to school and get a job or start working for themselves? They sure did, most of the time without any aid from Uncle Sam either! Today, there are all sorts of grants and super-cheap loans that are offered to anyone wanting to go to school or start a business. If someone isn't successful or at least making a decent living, it's THEIR fault, no one elses!
The difference in WW2 and now is that nearly everyone was in that same position. You also mention most of them didn't grow up in big cities and that they didn't join gangs. Were there a lot of gangs in the suburbs back then? How did minorities fare during that time? You don't have to answer that question because I'll tell you. They were treated as 2nd class citizens at best.

You are right that there are a lot of cheap loans and grants out there and a few of them are directed towards minorities. So if a non minority can't find one without crying about not being able to get the few that are directed towards minorities then it's THEIR fault, no one elses.

How many times did you say 'minority'? What everyone is talking about when they refer to 'minorities' keeping themselves down, is how THEY seperate themselves from the rest of society in a good many ways, even reffering to themselves differently. 'The Black community', 'The Latino community', 'black leaders', 'latino leaders'. Even in congress they have a 'black caucus' where black congressmen and senators meet to discuss issues that relate to 'their community'. If you don't want to be treated different, then don't consider yourselves different and cry 'racist' for being treated differently.


We separate our selves? Well when you live in a society that tells you you are inferior. WE tend to band together with each other for support. I mean really we get a few advantages and everyone else is up in arms because "That’s not far."


As for growing up poor and being oppressed because of it, don't hand me that line of BS. It's up to every individual as to whether or not they'll make something out of their lives. Look at the WW2 generation, most of them didn't grow up in any big cities, but they sure as hell grew up poor! Did they join gangs or do drugs? Some of them did, because they chose to. Did a great many of them decide to go to school and get a job or start working for themselves? They sure did, most of the time without any aid from Uncle Sam either! Today, there are all sorts of grants and super-cheap loans that are offered to anyone wanting to go to school or start a business. If someone isn't successful or at least making a decent living, it's THEIR fault, no one elses!


The point is we shouldn’t have to! When my grandfather came to this country he worked everyday to take care of his nine kids and wife. When he died at forty my father was maybe nineteen and he and his older brothers worked to help support the family and take care of the younger children when my grandmother died at forty-one. When my father married my mother he had almost no money and a job that wouldn’t support a family. So he found a better job and worked his way up so that now we live in a big home in a nice shoreline town with good schools. So yes he worked through oppression to get where he is at but people shouldn’t have to go through the things my father went through. He was turned down for jobs he was more then qualified for because he was a minority and forced to work 3 times as hard to get up the ladder of his line of work even though he was passed over for promotions many times in favor of less qualified people how weren’t minorities. And that is what many minorities are facing so no we don’t have the same chances you have or if we do we have to work for them twice as hard!

Not trying to attack you personally just putting in my :2cents:

How many times did you say 'minority'? What everyone is talking about when they refer to 'minorities' keeping themselves down, is how THEY seperate themselves from the rest of society in a good many ways, even reffering to themselves differently. 'The Black community', 'The Latino community', 'black leaders', 'latino leaders'. Even in congress they have a 'black caucus' where black congressmen and senators meet to discuss issues that relate to 'their community'. If you don't want to be treated different, then don't consider yourselves different and cry 'racist' for being treated differently.

As for growing up poor and being oppressed because of it, don't hand me that line of BS. It's up to every individual as to whether or not they'll make something out of their lives. Look at the WW2 generation, most of them didn't grow up in any big cities, but they sure as hell grew up poor! Did they join gangs or do drugs? Some of them did, because they chose to. Did a great many of them decide to go to school and get a job or start working for themselves? They sure did, most of the time without any aid from Uncle Sam either! Today, there are all sorts of grants and super-cheap loans that are offered to anyone wanting to go to school or start a business. If someone isn't successful or at least making a decent living, it's THEIR fault, no one elses!

Nice post.

Yes racism will still be around no matter what. However, if these ridiculous race -led lobby groups were dismembered it would be a lot different. No one deserve any more or any less preferential treatment than each other. I mean think about their is BET(Black Entertainment Television), nothing is really said about it. But if CET(Caucasion Entertainment Television) were to be released it would be as though the whole world ended.

What would cause the different treatment? Their race?


Lets face facts of how people are. No matter what it is, whether it be the way you dress, act, etc. If you decide to NOT be part of the crowd, the crowd will treat you differently. People who happen to be of non-european background insist on classifying themsleves differently from everyone else around them to 'maintain their identity', when seperating themselves in fact makes 'the crowd' or everyone else in this case, treat them differently, in thought if not in deed. Then because of the way it was in the past, they insist that it's because of 'racial hatred'.


The difference in WW2 and now is that nearly everyone was in that same position. You also mention most of them didn't grow up in big cities and that they didn't join gangs. Were there a lot of gangs in the suburbs back then? How did minorities fare during that time? You don't have to answer that question because I'll tell you. They were treated as 2nd class citizens at best.

Don't forget that there WERE big cities then too dude... The few who did join gangs were the ones in the big cities. Yes 'minorities' were treated badly back then, so what? That was then, this is now. Learn about it in history so the mistakes won't be repeated, but it's in the past, the 'minorities' need to stop browbeating people who had no part in it for what their grandparents or parents went through.

You are right that there are a lot of cheap loans and grants out there and a few of them are directed towards minorities. So if a non minority can't find one without crying about not being able to get the few that are directed towards minorities then it's THEIR fault, no one elses.

So you really wouldn't care if they started busting out 'whites only' loans and private schools huh? You believe in the old 'seperate but equal' BS that the south was into? That's all that affirmative action is after all, an extension of the seperate but equal ideal...

We separate our selves? Well when you live in a society that tells you you are inferior. WE tend to band together with each other for support. I mean really we get a few advantages and everyone else is up in arms because "That’s not far."

How does 'society' tell you you're inferior? Here's a perfect definition of hippocrasy for you, "People discriminate against me because of the color of my skin! It's horrible that I'm treated differently because of my skin color! But give me money because of it anyways...." Yeah....


The point is we shouldn’t have to! When my grandfather came to this country he worked everyday to take care of his nine kids and wife. When he died at forty my father was maybe nineteen and he and his older brothers worked to help support the family and take care of the younger children when my grandmother died at forty-one. When my father married my mother he had almost no money and a job that wouldn’t support a family. So he found a better job and worked his way up so that now we live in a big home in a nice shoreline town with good schools. So yes he worked through oppression to get where he is at but people shouldn’t have to go through the things my father went through. He was turned down for jobs he was more then qualified for because he was a minority and forced to work 3 times as hard to get up the ladder of his line of work even though he was passed over for promotions many times in favor of less qualified people how weren’t minorities. And that is what many minorities are facing so no we don’t have the same chances you have or if we do we have to work for them twice as hard!

EXCELLENT! I was hoping you'd use a story like that! Good for your grandfather! Guess what though? MY grandparents went through the same shit! Even though they're white! As for being turned down for jobs... this is too perfect! Story time children!

Late 70's, right smack in the middle of the Carter administration, my dad got out of college with a Bachelors degree. Keep in mind that his tuition money came from his, (volunteered specifically for college money), service in vietnam, so that would be a plus in this case. He started hunting for jobs and one of the places he really wanted to work at was PG&E, the big west coast gas & power company. Well, considering he had a degree, was an aviation electrician during his service term AND had damn good references, he was a shoe-in for the job right? WRONG! When the man interviewing him finished telling him the 'I'm sorry but you don't have what we need right now' spiel, my dad asked him, "Well then what do I need?" The man replied, "Darker skin." BAMMO! Affirmative action at work people! So don't EVER tell me about being rejected due to skin color!

Lets face facts of how people are. No matter what it is, whether it be the way you dress, act, etc. If you decide to NOT be part of the crowd, the crowd will treat you differently. People who happen to be of non-european background insist on classifying themsleves differently from everyone else around them to 'maintain their identity', when seperating themselves in fact makes 'the crowd' or everyone else in this case, treat them differently, in thought if not in deed. Then because of the way it was in the past, they insist that it's because of 'racial hatred'.
When you say "the crowd" Are you refering to Caucasian people? Don't forget that there WERE big cities then too dude... The few who did join gangs were the ones in the big cities.
I know that there were cities back then. I was just trying to understand what you meant when you said "most of them didn't grow up in any big cities, but they sure as hell grew up poor! Did they join gangs or do drugs?"
So, if most of them didn't grow up in big cities and your question was did they join gangs then I would have to assume that gangs were prevalent outside the cities back then.


Yes 'minorities' were treated badly back then, so what? That was then, this is now. Learn about it in history so the mistakes won't be repeated, but it's in the past, the 'minorities' need to stop browbeating people who had no part in it for what their grandparents or parents went through.
You brought up the past with the story of how poor people in WW2 worked themselves out of the gutters. Hey...that was then and this is now.
So you really wouldn't care if they started busting out 'whites only' loans and private schools huh? You believe in the old 'seperate but equal' BS that the south was into? That's all that affirmative action is after all, an extension of the seperate but equal ideal...
Started busting out white only loans? You mean rename them white only loans?

Let me give everyone a good example of why affiormative action isn't such a "good" idea. It starts with my Sophomore year at the University of Tennessee where I majored in business.

To give you a rundown at that point in my college career I was a 4.0 student (both at the beginning and end of that year and the next one too), and I was both working and attending school full time. Between taking 15-18 credit hours a semester and working 40-45 hours every week I had begun to grow a bit tired, but I felt the sacrifice was worth it.

The UT Business School decides during my sophomore year that I am one of the ten best business students in my class, and offers me a seat on the Dean's Student Advisory Council. (according to UT, this is the highest academic honor they bestow upon a student prior to graduation) I could go on, but I think I have made my point.

Now, here is where the problem comes in. As a non-resident student, I realized that my tuition would be higher and that I would be ineligible for state funded loans. However, I had hoped that my hard work and academic achievments would make the difference and provide me with the monetary means to stay and finish at UT. At this point in my life I was gullible enough to believe that academia must be the primary purpose and focus of any good University. (you can stop laughing now)

What I found was that my non-resident status was going to make it very hard for me to get some sholarships I had my eye on. Also, the fact that I had actually worked and made some money the previous year was apparently a bad thing. (lets promote sloth folks, great way to improve America)

Here is the rub, sitting next to me in an accounting class is a young black man I eventually became good friends with. Great guy, very smart, good character........IMHO a credit to the Business School in every way.

His grades were good enough, but in all honesty his gpa was at no point in time a 4.0 or anything like it. He worked hard in the classroom, (I helped him quite a bit with both his school-work and his studying btw) but he held neither a full time or part time job at any point that I knew him. I thought nothing of this until he mentioned one day that, like me, he was a non-resident student. I asked him how he managed and well.......

Seems that his schooling was very, very "paid for" when compared to my own. This was not based on his academic prowess, but simply on the color of his skin. His family was no poorer than mine, he was simply black.

And, his "funding" was largely independent of performance in the classroom both good and bad. He pointed out that a buddy of his who I was not familiar with was getting as much money as he was, and had been a C student from day one.

Of note IMO is that while I got a real lesson in the "fairness" of affirmative action and other ways in which we give minorities a "boost", it began changing my black friends mind on these issues as well. I well remember him basically telling me "I never thought what was helping me could be hurting guys like you" And yes, they are robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I start at VUL (Vanderbilt University Law) next fall and plan to tear that up just like I did my undergrad. I am both wiser and more skeptical now, so I am no longer surprised or angered as much when I am screwed in the name of "fairness".

But, considering that it is relatively likely that I will succeed both before and after graduation. I will leave you with another thought from my friend at UT. It's not word for word, but the point is still appropriate. He told me more than once that he believed I would succeed both in law school and after just as I had at UT. He then wondered out loud if the "unfairness" in the rewarding of some funds and all the resulting hard work that it had caused me to endure would make guys like me bitter because "guys with grades like his end up working for guys like me".

As much as I hate to say it......yes, I am still bitter. And, while I had no doubt that all my fellow students were equally capable and worthy before I entered UT, now I sometimes have to stop myself from wondering if minority students around me have earned their spot or been given it. IMO, that is the saddest thing of all. And ultimately, most unfair to those minorities who do earn their spot, like my friend.

It's either time for real efforts to bring about as much equality as a government can help foster, or stop bitching about inequality unless it helps the group you support..

DGB 454, I like you and find most of your posts informative. But, if you SERIOUSLY believe that there are any real number of "white-only loans or scholarships. Or, that somehow minorities students don't get money thrown at them in comparison to white male students......then you are smoking something illegal grown with great care and skill my friend.

This has turned stupid. I have to agree with the idea that "minorities" are the ones who are preserving "racism" for their own benefit.
It's easy for somebody to say "they didn't hire me because of the color of my skin" rather than have to believe, that yes, somebody with better qualifications than yourself does, indeed exist.
It's also easy to say "that old person looked at me funny, because of the color of my skin" old people give everybody dirty looks, that's who they are get used to it.
For every time a black person has been insulted by a white person, a white person has been insulted by a black person.
I myself spent several of my youngest years in North Carolina, where many of my friends were black.
When I moved to Colorado, if I tried to be friendly to anybody who was black, they'd look at me funny, just because I was white. The trouble is, that there are so few black people here, that there color does give them a reason to set themselves apart from the majority - if for no other reason than to make themselves feel special.
In NC, there were plenty of black people, too many that you could make yourself feel special just because you were born with a different skin color, so they didn't mind having white friends. They were "normal" so far as they were concerned.
But it's interesting to note that down there, there was plenty more true racism going on, than here - were it's mostly imagined so minorities can continue to have an easy scapegoat to blame for their problems.
Gangs are stupid, for the sole reason that gang members are stupid. They want to feel accepted, well, maybe if they were willing to accept others, they wouldn't have to exclude everybody, and form a gang - after all if everybody was in on something, it wouldn't be a club, or gang, or whatever other BS that's based on exclusion.

Let me give everyone a good example of why affiormative action isn't such a "good" idea. It starts with my Sophomore year at the University of Tennessee where I majored in business.

......

As much as I hate to say it......yes, I am still bitter. And, while I had no doubt that all my fellow students were equally capable and worthy before I entered UT, now I sometimes have to stop myself from wondering if minority students around me have earned their spot or been given it. IMO, that is the saddest thing of all. And ultimately, most unfair to those minorities who do earn their spot, like my friend.

It's either time for real efforts to bring about as much equality as a government can help foster, or stop bitching about inequality unless it helps the group you support..

This was a fantastic post, well written and informative. Kudos to you for working like you are to put yourself through school.

When you say "the crowd" Are you refering to Caucasian people?

Actually it's people who don't really give a shit about a persons skin color, but unfortunately it's mostly 'caucasian' people nowadays.

I know that there were cities back then. I was just trying to understand what you meant when you said "most of them didn't grow up in any big cities, but they sure as hell grew up poor! Did they join gangs or do drugs?"
So, if most of them didn't grow up in big cities and your question was did they join gangs then I would have to assume that gangs were prevalent outside the cities back then.

Yeah... either you're confused or I said it wrong. Lets get this straight and I'll spell it out for you. Ahem...

In the depression/WW2 era, nearly everyone was poor, no matter who it was. I was probably wrong to say that most of them DIDN'T live in a city, because when the original wave of immigrants came in, they mostly stayed in the big cities. These are where gangs turned up. HOWEVER, were gangs as prevalent then as they are now? Not really and members usually didn't stay in them for as long as they do now. Was drug use, (other than drinking of course), prevalent? Again, NO, it was looked down upon, especially since most of them had been around when Cocaine and Heroin were legal and sold over the counter, so they remembered the affects.


You brought up the past with the story of how poor people in WW2 worked themselves out of the gutters. Hey...that was then and this is now.

Because it was a good example, but it still holds affect. You can still work your way up from the gutter just like they did. However, RACIAL matters have most definitely changed from then and now, which is why on racial matters, 'that was then, this is now'.

Started busting out white only loans? You mean rename them white only loans?

So you're saying that all loans are 'white only' huh? Someone seems to think 'white people' are born with a golden spoon in their fuckin mouths.

I needed a co-signer to get a bank loan, just like anyone else would have, no matter their skin color. I didn't walk into the bank and say, 'Yes, I'd like a loan please' then have the bank manager himself come up saying, 'why of course! You meet our criteria of being white, so you MUST be trustworthy!' It was, 'Do you have a cosigner? Without a credit rating, we can't give you anything.' Yeah... all loans are for 'white people'.... nice imagination.

are there any people here that do not support afirmative action, and are a minority?

as far as AA. goes I think it is one of those things that will never be solved. If it is taken away then something simillar to it will be reinstated because I asume that there will be big riots and protests in the months following the take down of afirm. action.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/EDUCATION/02/18/whites.only.scholars/index.html

If you can get money for college based solely on the fact that you're Hispanic, Black, Native American, Polish, Jewish, Muslim, Arabian or fucking purple, why is this and only this considered racist?

DGB 454, I like you and find most of your posts informative. But, if you SERIOUSLY believe that there are any real number of "white-only loans or scholarships. Or, that somehow minorities students don't get money thrown at them in comparison to white male students......then you are smoking something illegal grown with great care and skill my friend.
First off...Excellent post you made above. This is what I was hoping for from some of the others that are against these types of scholalships. I didn't want to hear prejudice but logic or at least an example of someone who had been through it.

Do minority students get money thrown at them? I don't know about thrown but they are able to secure some of the more scarce non athletic scholarships easier than non minorities. Is that fair? I guess it depends a lot on what conditions they were raised in and how well they did with what they had. My honest opinion is that there should remain certain minority scholarships but the recipients should be looked at a little deeper than just their skin color. Also as you eluded in your post they should have to mantain a certain GPA in order to continue this funding once it is granted.

Lastly..I don't get high but I appreciate that you think if I did it would have been with something I grew with great care and skill.:smile:

Later

uhh.. what's an "Arabian"? :screwy:

Actually it's people who don't really give a shit about a persons skin color, but unfortunately it's mostly 'caucasian' people nowadays.


Thank you for clearing that up. I don't however agree with you on grouping a whole race as more tolerant than another.


Yeah... either you're confused or I said it wrong. Lets get this straight and I'll spell it out for you. Ahem... In the depression/WW2 era, nearly everyone was poor, no matter who it was. I was probably wrong to say that most of them DIDN'T live in a city, because when the original wave of immigrants came in, they mostly stayed in the big cities. These are where gangs turned up. HOWEVER, were gangs as prevalent then as they are now? Not really and members usually didn't stay in them for as long as they do now. Was drug use, (other than drinking of course), prevalent? Again, NO, it was looked down upon, especially since most of them had been around when Cocaine and Heroin were legal and sold over the counter, so they remembered the affects.

Again, thanks for clearing that up.



Because it was a good example, but it still holds affect. You can still work your way up from the gutter just like they did. However, RACIAL matters have most definitely changed from then and now, which is why on racial matters, 'that was then, this is now'.

I agree it was a good example of how it is possible to pull yourself out of the gutter but keep in mind that most people during that time were in that position whereas today most people aren't. There is a big difference in all of society going through rough times and a group of people going through rough times.



So you're saying that all loans are 'white only' huh? Someone seems to think 'white people' are born with a golden spoon in their fuckin mouths.

I needed a co-signer to get a bank loan, just like anyone else would have, no matter their skin color. I didn't walk into the bank and say, 'Yes, I'd like a loan please' then have the bank manager himself come up saying, 'why of course! You meet our criteria of being white, so you MUST be trustworthy!' It was, 'Do you have a cosigner? Without a credit rating, we can't give you anything.' Yeah... all loans are for 'white people'.... nice imagination.

I'm not saying that we are born with a gold spoon in our mouths but it is a fact that people are judged by the color of their skin when it comes to bank, car and housing loans. Minorities are able to get those loans but it's usually at a higher interest rate than non minorities. The recipients of loans and grants should "not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

Why a coffee bean of course.

Oh i see, i thought you meant an Arab. I didnt know coffee beans went to college ;)

thats fucked up

This is being discussed in the politics forum. http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=189758
And if you think that this is being done by a white student. Nope. He's hispanic and receieved a scholarship to college b/c he is hispanic. It's about damn time someone stepped forward to move this fucked up politically correct worthless society in the right direction. I'm not going on b/c I've already expressed my view several times in the other board.

I think what people need to do is look at the big picture. In this country most of the people below the poverty level are minorities. So in an effort to change this AA has been put in place. Now I agree with everyone AA is NOT fair but look at the big picture and what its trying to do. AA is trying to pull minorities as a whole out of poverty and even things out some. When things even then I think AA should be done away with. However until then it has its place. I mean you cant win a war with out losing a few lives. And that’s what AA is doing, fighting a war against poverty. I think if non-minorities could just understand what its trying to do and just deal with it for a time it would go by much faster. I mean if we could deal with slavery for all that time I think everyone else could deal with AA for like what 20 more years maybe. I mean think of the goal people. I think this is a case of the end justifying the means.

I think what people need to do is look at the big picture. In this country most of the people below the poverty level are minorities. So in an effort to change this AA has been put in place. Now I agree with everyone AA is NOT fair but look at the big picture and what its trying to do. AA is trying to pull minorities as a whole out of poverty and even things out some. When things even then I think AA should be done away with. However until then it has its place. I mean you cant win a war with out losing a few lives. And that’s what AA is doing, fighting a war against poverty. I think if non-minorities could just understand what its trying to do and just deal with it for a time it would go by much faster. I mean if we could deal with slavery for all that time I think everyone else could deal with AA for like what 20 more years maybe. I mean think of the goal people. I think this is a case of the end justifying the means.

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Teach him to fish, and he eats for a lifetime.....

One of the big problems with AA is that now, the good, hardworking minority students are lowered to the level of the lazy ones, because everyone assumes that they have taken a handout too.

Actually I prefer...
"Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, Teach a man to fish and he'll waste the whole day in a boat drinking rum..."

The only observation that I would make is that advocating non-preference assumes that everyone has the same opportunities and access to benefits. In this world, that ain't necessarily so - socio-economic, geographical, demographic and other factors mean that opportunities will always vary between individuals.

A more subtle example is to consider why students are selected on the basis of academic grading - is this fair? Is there any evidence to prove there is a causal link between pre-tertiary gpa and the ability for instance to be a good doctor, business leader or contributor to the community? Possibly, but I've seen enough spoon fed kids out of good schools with amazing gpas go off the rails in their first year of college to know perhaps that isn't the full picture.

I actually think that AA is a tool but a pretty blunt one - whereas we probably need to address the education levels in the 7-10th decile schools (ie the ones in the areas where the 30% of the poorest folk live). These schools often have far higher pupil to teacher ratios, don't get resourced as well (no donations and community sponsorship for facilities, books, computers), there's evidence that the kids are under-nourished and have problems recruiting the best teachers to work there. Those schools are often over-represented in truancy, expulsions etc and usually have the poorest average gpas (which can be manipulated -some schools counsel kids out of taking exams if they think they will fail to maintain the school's reputation.)

We could go on forever about anecdotes about how life is a bitch and unfair - and we know someone disadvantaged because of AA... then again I could also discuss why it's unjust that some folk in the UK will never be managers because their accent betrays where they were born and raised - thus excluding them from consideration for management or how justice may be blind but seems to discern the wealthy from the poor...

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Teach him to fish, and he eats for a lifetime.....

One of the big problems with AA is that now, the good, hardworking minority students are lowered to the level of the lazy ones, because everyone assumes that they have taken a handout too.


True but again when I said "you cant win a war with out losing a few lives" I wasn’t just talking that non-minorities. Yes it is lower the standards for those higher achieving minorities but its all about the bigger picture... the greater good. However I don’t think everyone just assumes they took a hand out, but I understand what your saying.

First off...Excellent post you made above. This is what I was hoping for from some of the others that are against these types of scholalships. I didn't want to hear prejudice but logic or at least an example of someone who had been through it.

I hope you aren't referring to me as being prejudiced...

Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day.
Teach him to fish, and he eats for a lifetime.....

One of the big problems with AA is that now, the good, hardworking minority students are lowered to the level of the lazy ones, because everyone assumes that they have taken a handout too.

Damn straight. This is also a major reason why productivity has taken a nosedive in American business, not as much as it did when AA was first introduced, but it's still there. Think about it. You give people college money based on their skin, but more importantly, you give them JOBS based on their skin... so what happens if it's a position that needs to be filled immediatly but you don't have any 'minorities' who are qualified applying? (This is why it isn't as bad now, there are more qualified 'minorities' out there than there were 20 years ago) Why you hire the next 'minority' through the door folks! Whether they're qualified for the job or not. So what happens? The quality of work goes downhill...

I think what people need to do is look at the big picture. In this country most of the people below the poverty level are minorities. So in an effort to change this AA has been put in place. Now I agree with everyone AA is NOT fair but look at the big picture and what its trying to do. AA is trying to pull minorities as a whole out of poverty and even things out some. When things even then I think AA should be done away with. However until then it has its place. I mean you cant win a war with out losing a few lives. And that’s what AA is doing, fighting a war against poverty. I think if non-minorities could just understand what its trying to do and just deal with it for a time it would go by much faster. I mean if we could deal with slavery for all that time I think everyone else could deal with AA for like what 20 more years maybe. I mean think of the goal people. I think this is a case of the end justifying the means.

Problem is, it's been more than 20 years now already and when 'the time is up' in your eyes, the idea of 'minorities' getting government hand outs because of who they happened to be born to will be so entrenched into the minds of the public, that when someone argues against it being morally right they're called racist or 'prejudiced'....wait... that's already happening...