Sienna Engine Sludge Problem

Does anyone know if Toyota has any recall or extended warranty on the engine sludge problem? The dealers always point the finger to owners for unable to prove oil change once per year and deny warranty. But I heard this problem is actually caused by a defect engine design. Does Toyota decide what to do with it yet?

Does anyone know if Toyota has any recall or extended warranty on the engine sludge problem? The dealers always point the finger to owners for unable to prove oil change once per year and deny warranty. But I heard this problem is actually caused by a defect engine design. Does Toyota decide what to do with it yet?


:screwy:
heard a lot abt this problem, i own a 1998 sienna le.
but what they said is just to maintain your car, by doing regular oil changes... use ... 100% synthetic and do it 3k or 5k miles depending on usage..

I do mine at 3k. But I don't use syn oil. The van is over 50k now, runs great.

I bought a 98 sienna with 76K. The owner changed the oil between 5 and 8 K. No special care. So with all the horror stories of sludge, I was worried, but bought it anyways.

I took off the valve covers to check valve clearances. They are clean as a whistle.

I thought Toyota did issue a TSB for the Sludge.

Dan Strong

I bought a 98 sienna with 76K. The owner changed the oil between 5 and 8 K. No special care. So with all the horror stories of sludge, I was worried, but bought it anyways.

I took off the valve covers to check valve clearances. They are clean as a whistle.

I thought Toyota did issue a TSB for the Sludge.

Dan Strong

Recently bought a 2001 Sienna with 43K miles and notice the inside of the oil cap and dip stick we covered with deposits and sludge. The engine has consumed about 4 quarts of oil in 2000 miles. Three other Toyota engines I owned never required adding oil between changes. Do you have the TSB you mentioned? is it available on line? Any one else experiencing oil consumption problems along with the sludge?

Steve Lepard

I found the TSB on the NHTSA website. But there are very few details. I dont think they list much unless it is a safety recall. Still, you can get the TSB number, and go to the dealer. Take your oil change receipts, good luck.

Dan Strong

There is NOT a TSB for the sludge (engine gelling). There is a special policy adjustment (SPA) that covers Sienna, Camry and Avalons. As a Toyota technician (8 yrs), I have NEVER EVER seen a sluged engine on a vehicle that had the oil changed at a resonable interval. Toyota, in my opinion, has really gone out of it's way to help people with the problem, even though it is poor maintainence that causes the problem in the first place. I have done many of the sludge repairs, and the majority of them have had around 1 oil change per 15,000 miles. Several engines that I have done had 2 oil changes in 60,000 miles. A lot of the customers bring in their oil change receipts, and admit that they have only done a few oil changes.
I've seen a lot of 2nd owner vehicles come in comsuming oil and smoking. The owner doesn't really know the oil change history, and Toyota occassionally denies the repair.
Bottom line, change your oil, and you won't have to worry about sludge.

No TSB for sludge? Did you look at the NHTSA website? Or is a Toyota Tech (with 8 years experience!!!!!!) too knowledgable that he just knows this info off the top of his head?

Service bullitin number TC02002 NHTSA# 628696?

It took me a whole 3 minutes to look up the TSB summary.

Dan Strong

I stand corrected. There is no recall regarding sludge, there is a TSB. With thousands and thousands of TSBs, I cannot possibly remember all of them, and to be honest the whole slugde issue has me so upset that I don't want to remember the TSB.

I have a 1998 Sienna I purchased new. It now has 105,000 miles; runs great! I have changed the oil every 4000-5000 miles with Castrol 5W30 half Synthetic; AC delco filter. I change my own oil, I trust no one, I have not seen any evidence of sludge anywhere???

I just bought a toyota sienna 99 with 101,200 miles, after drive it a couple of blocks a noticed the engine oil signal start to flicker and then goes steady, i decide to add an quarter oil, then drive it some other distance and the same thing happens, then add another quarter oil, It happens again and the same thing but I drove about 100 mi that way. long story Ha.., Some how this is related to the sludge engine build up you guys talk about in this tread? or shoul be a sensor issue, any help will be greatly appreciated.

I would definately get that engine checked for sludge. Only way to do it is to lift the valve cover and have a look-see. Signs of sludge are smokein exhaust, check engine light, heavy use of oil (more than quart per 1000 mi), and sometimes you will see thickness or chucnks on the dipstick.

I've had my 1999 Sienna XLE since 10,000 mi, currently at ~96,000 mi. This is my wife's car and she drives a lot of in-town, starting/stopping. I've routinely changed the oil every 6,000 - 7000 mi. I switched a few years ago from mineral oil to synthetic. And to tell you the truth, I switched to synthetic because I wanted to extend my drain interval.
I've changed my philosophy now. It isn't worth major engine damage just to save a few bucks on oil. At first I tried full synthetic, but full synthetic has pretty agressive chemistry and I noticed some seal leakage. I changed to Valvoline Durablend and the leaks stopped.

Regarding sludge, the only thing I've noticed is in my oil fill cap I see some slight reddish brown pasty gel. The engine probably burns about 1/2 to 1 quart per 5000 mi. So, just to be on the safe side, I've just started adding a dose of Seafoam(r) additive to the crankcase to keep the internals clean. The gel is not as noticable as it was before...just a very thin film inside the cap. I will be changing oil more frequently, probably 4000 - 5000 miles.

you should read this I found on other site:....................

The little Toyota engine that couldn't Once upon a time there was a Little Toyota V6 1-MZ engine. And the little engine was becoming weaker and weaker and finally it went to its maker and said, "I don't feel so good; I think that there is something wrong with me." And its maker said, "You would feel better if you would just change your oil regularly. Now away with you, you little not properly maintained engine!"

Now the little engine was really sad because it had its oil changed regularly and at the proper intervals. But, in spite of that, the little engine grew weaker and weaker and weaker. And then it died. The end.

A fairy tale you say; not if you are the owner of the Toyota V6 l-MZ engine that is in all of the Toyota vehicles manufactured from 1997 through 2002. These engines are defective and in spite of proper maintenance by the owners they develop sludge which caused major damage to the engine. At first, Toyota was in total denial and laid the blame for engine failure on the owners. This did not work.

So, in February of 2001, Toyota isssued a Special Program notice which essentially stated that Toyota would based on good will on their part (read Toyota was trying to cover their butt in the face of an impending class action suit) would repair or pay for the repairs if already done due to engine sludge.

Toyota called it "gelling". I have never heard of "gel" in an engine; however, I have heard of sludge. Well, in that there are approximately 3.3 million engines involved, this is a mighty huge problem for good ol' Toyota. This special program window was for a period of one year from the date of the letter. Needless to say, this offer went over like a lead balloon.

Especially for owners whose cars were fairly new. The one year window just wasn't long enough. But, what is more from the instant that this special program notice hit the street, everyone realized that it was a bandaid cover up for a more major problem. The engine was defective because Toyota in an attempt to achieve a cleaner burning engine for emission certification had narrowed the oil ports and raised the temperature in the heads to about 260 degrees - about 50 degrees higher than normal.

This resulted in the oil being cooked and turned to sludge
which clogged up the already too small oil ports. What is even worse is that there is a high fuel content in the oil in these engines which lowers the flash point in the oil and reduces the lubricating qualities of the oil. This marks the death knell for the engine; and Toyota had stonewalled these owners and denied them any relief under the normal warranty.

The plot thickens as Toyota recognizing that the one year window wasn't going over very well, Toyota decided to offer an 8 year unlimited mileage warranty against oil gelling (read sludge). This is all fine and dandy; however, what is the owner supposed to do as you nervously hover over the engine and constantly look for signs of sludging. Well, what I did was to send my oil off for any analysis. My car, a 2001 Toyota Avalon with just about 11,000 miles on it and with oil changed 4x in that time did not fare very well.

The analysis came back indicating that there was fuel and
silicon in the oil. The oil viscosity at 210 degrees was below the minimum level - and remember, the engine runs at 260 degrees, so the oil viscosity at that temperature would be grossly below the minimum level.

There is now at last a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Technical Service Bulletin #TC02002, Sequence #628, Item # SB628696 which is an investigatory effort into engine sludge in Toyota V6 engine 1-MZ. There is another NHTSA TSB #EG 001957, Sequence # 2, Item # SB 051257 which is another investigatory effort into internal engine noise at idle at normal operating temperature. They sound rather ominous, eh what. Well, they are!

And when you are in either a Lexus or Toyota dealer (both lines have the engine in question), ask the salesman about engine sludge and watch his face. HHHmmmmmm!!!! The answer will be something to the effect that "oh that! Toyota has modified the engine and it is alright now". Then ask them to take you to the service manager and ask the service manager to tell you specifically what was done to the engine to correct the problems and what testing was done to ensure that the fix was effective.

You won't get an intelligent answer because, boys and girls, Toyota will not reveal what they have done or put it in writing for it would be tantamount to a confession by them as to what was wrong with the engine in the first place and that it never was the owner's failure to maintain the vehicle properly.........................................

It seems, that the only good thing to do is to keep oil change records
By the way i take my van to the toyota dealer the find the jelling problem, but in order to fix it under this extended warranty program a oil change record must be provided to the dealer.

I have 140,000 on my 1999 sienna LE. In August, I was showing my son how to read the oil and do basic maintenance. I noticed I could not get a reading on the oil. Strange. I had just had a service done the month before at a toyota dealership here in town. Tune up, oil change, front end suspension, alignment and a few other minor things. So, I went and purchase 4 bottles of synthetic oil and figured it was just someone not putting in enough oil in my engine and that the synthetic oil was protecting my engine enough to run off of just 1 quart for the short time I drove it (200-600 mi)

Typically I go elsewhere for an oil change. But since I was having so much work done at Toyota, I decided to let them have the business. I have been using synthetic oil since about 50,000. 100% synthetic. No blends.

Last week I noticed my oil light came on. I checked the oil and it was fine and clear. I did notice that under the oil cap I had sludge built up on the cap itself and I could see some inside the engine when the cap was removed. So, I thought I would just go get an oil change and maybe a flush. On the way to a regular oil changing location, the car stalled. First time ever stalling. So, I got it started again with our problems but I noticed a performance problem and it wanted to stall more. Straight to Toyota I go for them to look at it. After an hour, the service manager handling my account had me look at the engine. Sludge everywhere. Turns out the filter had clogged and this is a known problem for Toyota's that use this engine block he told me. He then told me that Toyota will take care of everything including a rental. Cleaning of the engine, new valve covers, filters, sending parts of the engine out for re-machining, the works.

Now, I am happy with Toyota taking this stance with out any problems with out me having to beg.

I have since have heard that a new engine is being installed. Not a rebuilt/cleaned version of my engine.

Question is for anyone out there, what work should I check for before accepting the car back.

I did have the transmission fluid changed in April 2004, new belts put on and front end work done for the suspension.

I did plan on having the timing belt and waterpump replaced when it was suppose to be a "rebuilt" engine. But now with it being brand new, I am looking for what else I should be concerned about. My car never ran hot and the temperature never went up when the car stalled. I assume they will put new engine mounts in with the new engine. I also assume that the engine they are sending is not just a block, but an engine with pre-installed parts. I will find out on Monday I am sure.

Just want to make sure that I cover every base before I accept the car back from Toyota in a week or so.

While I am on a budget, now is the best time to have this work done at a "reduced price" toyota.

just brought my 2001 siennna with 54,000 miles on it tot he dealer wher i was informed I have engine sludge. I get my oil changed every 3,000 miles with the occasional lapse - but only twice and that was at 5,000 miles -they are taking care of it for free and gave me a 2004 sienna loaner care (really nice!) how can i avoid this in the future?

Is this something that I need to worry about? I am a proud owner of 04' LE FWD.

I always replace engine oil at 3000 miles (yes, I do it myself) although the manual say 7500. So far there is no sign of any deposit observed. I would say it's important to replace engine oil before it gets saturated with dirty stuff related to combustion.

Since the major cause of this problem is now known to be Toyota's redesign of the engine breathing system which causes insufficient breathing and leaves more than expected dirty stuff in the engine, I believe Toyota incorrectly estimated the mileage to replace the engine oil.

...MY moms '99 Sienna XLE I think may have this so called "sludge" I'm stupid so can some please tell me what this is?? I just know she can't drive it cause it throws too much smoke from the exhaust systems smells like oil burning..tho my dad has tried to fix it over and over... he hasn't been able too..and right now it's not being driven cause of this problem what could it be?? please help guys...this sienna only has 70K MILES Motor still nice and quiet but throws too much OIL Y???? my parents got this van with only 50k now has 70k and I think only chance the oil once maybe twice!! guys HELP..

I mean throws too much smoke (smoke smells like oil burning)

I'm not sure what I'm doing, so this may go through, or not. I was reading about the experiences you guys were having with your toyotas and I'm just furious about ours. We bought our avalon brand new and at about 44 thousand miles, the engine oil gelled. We took it in to our toyota dealer and they replaced the engine, since we had the documentation for the last oil change we had (it was less than one month before the gelling). So, they replaced the engine and said they fixed the problem. Then at about 88 thousand miles the light came on again, and same thing!!! We took it into our same dealer, but because we didn't have the documentation, they refused to take any responsibility and told us it would be over $4,000 to fix. We immediately took it to our favorite mechanic, who took off the engine top and cleaned out the sludge as best he could and directed us to change the oil every 1500 miles for awhile, then go to 3,000. We have done this, but I'm very concerned about the long-term viability of this engine. it still smells a little when it's running, but so far, the oil seems okay.

I figured this is a problem that seems to occur at about 40,000 miles. The first engine we had pretty regular oil changes. We didn't do as well on the second, but they both gelled up at about the same mileage.

Eva Andersen

Does anyone know if Toyota has any recall or extended warranty on the engine sludge problem? The dealers always point the finger to owners for unable to prove oil change once per year and deny warranty. But I heard this problem is actually caused by a defect engine design. Does Toyota decide what to do with it yet?

There is "Special Policy Adjustment" from Toyota to replace the engines that are damaged from Sludge providing you have changed the oil at least once per year. They just put a new engine in my 2002 Sienna and paid for everything! This special adjustment policy is effective for one year.

Does anyone know if Toyota has any recall or extended warranty on the engine sludge problem? The dealers always point the finger to owners for unable to prove oil change once per year and deny warranty. But I heard this problem is actually caused by a defect engine design. Does Toyota decide what to do with it yet?


Take it back to the dealer and mention the "special policy adjustment" that Toyota just issued on the Sienna sludge problem. My car had 80,000 miles on it and they replaced the engine last week at no charge. You only have to have one oil change per year to qualify. I assume that if Avalon owners are having the same engine problem, it might cover them too.

A good friend of mine drives a 2001 Sienna that developed a sludge problem at 71Kmiles, and is now in the shop getting a new engine.

The dealer tried to tell her the problem appears to be from "neglect" since his computer records showed a lack of oil changes. Maybe he was trying to get her to pay for the repair. Anyway, after producing records that she had oil changes (at a local lube shop) at least every 5Kmiles, the dealer then stated that maybe the shop wasn't using the "right" oil. Eventually, he got Toyota to pay for the repair.

Here's what bugs me the most.....why does Consumer-Reports give this vehicle such high ratings when so many owners are having engine problems. A guy at work has a late-90's Sienna that also developed sludge. In his case, they caught it early and did some type of flush....which he had to pay for. We personally own a 98 Windstar (with 87Kmiles) which CR says is junk and haven't had any problems yet. Someone isn't collecting data properly if you ask me.

A good friend of mine drives a 2001 Sienna that developed a sludge problem at 71Kmiles, and is now in the shop getting a new engine.

The dealer tried to tell her the problem appears to be from "neglect" since his computer records showed a lack of oil changes. Maybe he was trying to get her to pay for the repair. Anyway, after producing records that she had oil changes (at a local lube shop) at least every 5Kmiles, the dealer then stated that maybe the shop wasn't using the "right" oil. Eventually, he got Toyota to pay for the repair.

Here's what bugs me the most.....why does Consumer-Reports give this vehicle such high ratings when so many owners are having engine problems. A guy at work has a late-90's Sienna that also developed sludge. In his case, they caught it early and did some type of flush....which he had to pay for. We personally own a 98 Windstar (with 87Kmiles) which CR says is junk and haven't had any problems yet. Someone isn't collecting data properly if you ask me.

Lord_Kelvin;

Funny you should mention the Windstar. As a previous owner of a 95 and currently watching my brother in-law struggle with his 98, all I can say to you is good luck in the future with this thing and maybe you should buy a lottery ticket.

The Windstar has to be the biggest POC out there. I bought a 98 Sienna a year ago with 100K Km with all service records. The only problem I have had is the rear door won't open, which I am about to fix with help from this site. My previous van was the 95 Windstar and after 1 engine and 1 transmission, a host of other problems were starting to mount. I said enough is enough. I was worried about the sludge problem so I bought a Sienna with all service records and get my oil changes done regularly. Every 5000 Kms. So Far So Good.

Just found out this. Looks like it's been there for a while already. Maybe a little bit late. But I think you can still sign the petition if appropriate.

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?TMC2003

Here's the Sludge Zone:

http://yotarepair.com/Sludge_Zone.html

and a cleaning method:

http://www.cleftltd.com/

I just saw an article in Consumer's Report, Toyota extends the engine warranty to 8 years/unlimited mileage, to cover the sludge issue. Anyone heard anything about this yet?

It says that Toyota will still ask the owner to show proof of oil change once/year! Keep your receipt for oil/filter, etc. if you do it yourself.

Don't resurrect old threads. Start a new one if you figure you have something to contribute.

Read the FAQ, the warrant extension is discussed in there.

I have the same question! I own a 99 Sienna and it seems to have every single problem listed in the vast amount of service bulletins out there. I will be writing to Consumer Reports and recommending that they NOT make the Sienna a recommended vehicle. Not only are there numerous problems with the Sienna, but Toyota makes the customer out to be the criminal when we expect the company to act in good faith. Sludge problem - HAD IT - despite changing my own oil every 3,000 miles faithfully. Transmission problem - HAD IT - now fighting to have Toyota cover the repairs. Auto Door Problem - HAVE IT - scared to take it to my dealer for fear of having to pay for that repair or never getting my van back. I've been a loyal Toyota customer for the past 10 years owning 3 and was ready to purchase my 4th when the transmission problems arose on the Sienna.

Do you think it is because these vehicles are made in the US and not Japan?

A good friend of mine drives a 2001 Sienna that developed a sludge problem at 71Kmiles, and is now in the shop getting a new engine.

The dealer tried to tell her the problem appears to be from "neglect" since his computer records showed a lack of oil changes. Maybe he was trying to get her to pay for the repair. Anyway, after producing records that she had oil changes (at a local lube shop) at least every 5Kmiles, the dealer then stated that maybe the shop wasn't using the "right" oil. Eventually, he got Toyota to pay for the repair.

Here's what bugs me the most.....why does Consumer-Reports give this vehicle such high ratings when so many owners are having engine problems. A guy at work has a late-90's Sienna that also developed sludge. In his case, they caught it early and did some type of flush....which he had to pay for. We personally own a 98 Windstar (with 87Kmiles) which CR says is junk and haven't had any problems yet. Someone isn't collecting data properly if you ask me.

We have a 98 Sienna with 115K miles on it. Runs like new. We use regular 10W30 changed every 3K or so. Never had any problems.

I have the same question! I own a 99 Sienna and it seems to have every single problem listed in the vast amount of service bulletins out there. I will be writing to Consumer Reports and recommending that they NOT make the Sienna a recommended vehicle. Not only are there numerous problems with the Sienna, but Toyota makes the customer out to be the criminal when we expect the company to act in good faith. Sludge problem - HAD IT - despite changing my own oil every 3,000 miles faithfully. Transmission problem - HAD IT - now fighting to have Toyota cover the repairs. Auto Door Problem - HAVE IT - scared to take it to my dealer for fear of having to pay for that repair or never getting my van back. I've been a loyal Toyota customer for the past 10 years owning 3 and was ready to purchase my 4th when the transmission problems arose on the Sienna.

Do you think it is because these vehicles are made in the US and not Japan?

Although some people think so, I doubt it. Many Toyotas are only made in the US (for this market) and have excellent overall reliability records. No manufacturer is perfect. There will always be a percentage of vehicles that are not as good as the others. Can't get around it.

I have a 2000 Sienna with 113k miles. I have not had any engine sludge problems (yet). Since it was new I've been using full synthetic oil, (first Castrol Syntec, and now Mobil 1) keeping to a 5,000 mile change interval as best as I could. The engine burns zero oil. I do notice the oil is pretty dark when I change it, but no evidence of gelled oil exists. It seems to me Toyota really should have required synthetic be used in this engine, but probably was afraid of how a significantly more costly oil change would have been received by critics and the public. If what I read is true that Toyota raised the operating temp. as high as 260 degrees F, then it was irresponsible to not require a synlube.

My pristine '98 that I bought 3 weeks ago blew the engine. I had changed the oil before a 400 mile trip to Mobil 1 full synthetic. I have Volvo Turbowagons, and I love the stuff-'cus it doesn't coke like the dino oil... I get 400 miles from home, the oil light came on, and I pulled over. I check the oil level (it was fine), start her up, and the knock started... Took Amtrak home, got my truck and car trailer, and trudged up to get her. The dealer where I bought her, says he will give me $350. for my trouble...this is better than a kick in the teeth, but less than the $2,000 or so it is going to be, to get a used engine and have it installed... Toyota says to tow it in, and they will have someone "from the company" decide if they will do anything... The P.O. has receipts for oil changes every 3,000 miles (but he was the 2nd owner). I pulled about a fist-full of hard, crunchy sludge out of the oil drainback area under the front valve cover... I feel that my changing to full synthetic probably cleaned this engine out too well, and clogged the oil pickup... I have a 200,000+ mile Toyota 4wd that I have had no trouble with...I expected the same with this. Unfortunately, it wasn't until my engine trouble that I researched the problems associated with this particular engine. If I wanted a vehicle that would kick me in the a## I would have bought the used Land Rover I looked at right before the Sienna... :evillol: Tony B

I am sorry to hear of your troubl, but I read on a website that Toyota has offered a warranty for this problem. 8 years unlimited mileage. Your van goes to 9 years old in a few months as it is still 2006 for now. You can read about it here: http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/reliability.aspx?year=1998&make=Toyota&model=Sienna

I just finished getting my 98 Sienna cleared up, but all I had to do was clean the throttle body and the injectors. Engine light no longer comes onand performance is good again. The engine code was P304 which meany misfire on cyclinder 4. Repair cost was under $200 CDN.

Good luck and let us know if Toyota comes through with this.

-Thanks for the reply. I gave up trying to fight with Toyota over this... I ordered an engine out of a crashed Sienna with 50,000 miles today, and it is being delivered to a local shop that will install it. I am out the cost the engine ($1,000 delivered), and the installation ($700). but in the long-run, I think I am getting by on the cheap-side... I have heard of a lot of Sienna owners, paying a whole lot more money to get their vans back on the road. I am going to pull the valve covers and pan on this engine prior to it going into my van. If it is sludged, I'll have it cleaned out prior to installation. (Also a good time to have them install a new timing belt...) Wish me luck. -Tony B. :uhoh:

I received a document concerning a class action settlement. It came with a document with discription of my van and vin #. It also had a web site to go on.
www.oilgelsettlement.com.

So we're in the market for a used minivan. We currently own an '01 Villager Sport-very nice van, bit it's got 92,000 miles and we're ready for something a little newer. We went to the local Toyota dealer and looked at a 2003 Sienna with 38,000 miles. I made sure to take off the oil fill cap and check inside the valve cover. Sure enough, there was a crusty, gritty black layer of burnt oil on the baffle. So needless to say, we didn't buy that van. We are now looking at the Mazda MPV.

I received too a letter of class auction against toyota by this time ,already paid myself for the motor replacement because toyota refuse to issue a warranty on my 1999 sienna , I hope at this time be able to recover some of the spent money for the motor replacement.
asotovx

-So far, mine has been a pretty happy ending. I changed the oil in the "new" engine before driving up North for Thanksgiving. Now that I have another 700+ miles on the first oil change, I am going to change it again-but this time to Mobil 1 full-synthetic. I feel that any gunk present in the engine (the valve train looked like new) hopefully will have been flushed out with these two oil changes.
My total was $1,000 for the engine, as I previously posted-but my installation was a bit higher. When my engine was out, they noticed the steering rack was leaking fluid heavily. I had them install a new rack, a new water pump, new timing belt, change the plugs, and change the belts and hoses. The total on the install and rack came to $1,300. With the $2,300 repair cost, and the original cost of the van-I am still well-below the blue book value on the van. It was just a lot of aggrevation. The ASC supplementary insurance that was provided by the dealership at the time of sale (although I found out it was only $500. coverage...), couldn't have been better. I was skeptical as to whether I would ever see a check-but they were polite, helpful, and really took care of me. I had the $500. check in hand within a week.
I have contacted Toyota re: any possible reimbursement, and have registered my van with them in regards to the class-action suit. They want to inspect the old engine, which I will happily dump out of the back of my truck for them to inspect to their hearts desire...
Driving on the tollway, and in downtown Chicago-the van could not have performed better! It is quick, quiet, and used no oil in the 700 miles. _This_ is finally the van that I was expecting, when I bought a Toyota! -Tony B.

Fresh oil doesn't normally clean out sludge. Try AutoRX at auto-rx.com. That treatment has been reported as useful by alot of people on this forum.

-Thanks for the tip! My van now has over 8,000 miles on the "new" engine, with nary a problem. It has performed beautifully, and is really a blast to drive. My Yoko ice/snow tires have really been an asset this winter, and the Solara rims brighten up the whole package. Hopefully, this van will continue to provide the excellent service that I expect from Toyota products. (I finally dumped the original engine at the back of my garage yesterday...) Even with all of the repairs and upgrades, I'm still well below book value, so I guess it eventually worked out for the best. -Tony

Has anyone used Seafoam on their Sienna? Mine is due an oil change next month and I thought about putting so seafoam in the crankcase before the oil change. On the S10 forum, people put it in the oil and drive 20-50 miles and then change the oil.

Did a Seafoam oil change and put Mobil 1 synthetic 5w30 and it seem smoother and quieter. But a week later, I traded my 01 Sienna for a 02 Infiniti I35 sport. Seafoam really clean her out. I put half a can of seafoam in oil and drove for 50 miles and then changed oil and filter. Poured the other half in the gas tank to clean injectors. It made a difference.

I agree. Any idiot who does 2 oilchanges for 60,000 miles deserves a burned engine. I think their problem is brain-sludge. I personally always do Synthetic oil-changes every 2000 miles, I right-away change sparkplugs with NGK Irridium and wires with Borg-Warner wires and my cars keep running better by age and gas mileage goes up by 5-7mpg.
Plus, I've owned a 3.0Liter Camry that has the same engine as Sienna and after 270,000 miles it still ran like new.
All of people's problems come from their own mistakes.

I purchased a 99 Sienna XLE (used) about 3 weeks ago with 150K miles. The van ran smoothly. Everything with the exception of CD player and Driver side window, is in good working condition. I took it to delaer to get it checked for sludge build up. Dealer asked me to get the oil change receipts, one per year, for the last 4 years, required by Toyota. I collected the receipt and took the van to let them have a look at it. They took the valve cover out and inspected all around there. The mechanic then called me to have a look at it. There was no sludge build up any where. Dealer had told me that if the sludge build up is found, they would work with Toyota to do what ever is required to fix the problem. Since no sludge build up was found I had to pay $80 for their labor. Dealer did say though that "A customer has to ask for them to do sludge check" . Dealer on their own, would not run the test. It is only when a customer asks for it.

The mechanic also told me that most of the sludge problem is associated with owners not changing the oil, as required. Therefore after a long period, the oil starts to turn into sludge. In my case, the van was well taken care of. All of the fluid had been changed when required.

So keep in mind to change the oil on the required intervals to keep the van running strong and smooth for years to come.:)

There is more to it than just changing your oil regularly. There have been many engines replaced for sludging that have had regular and adequate oil changes. Some engines are just more prone to sludge than others. Maybe they get deposits in the head in the coolant passages and run hotter. Or maybe their PCV system doesn't work as well and there are alot more volatiles in the oil that cause it to sludge faster (acid/water).

The vast majority of engines don't sludge. A small percentage do and some of those are from something other than lack of oil changes. If sludge formation was simply a matter of not changing your oil regularly, Toyota would never have taken responsibility for changing all those engines free of charge.

Read the first post in the Camry FAQ thread.

I have a 2003 Sienna xle with ~75000 miles. My early 2003 is idential to the 2002. Is it covered under the sludge settlement?
The dealer or WalMart (with synthetic blend) does the oil changes every 3500 4000 mile with the exception on one a 5000 miles. I just changed the oil myself to "full synetic" Pennoil (likely group IV oil) and in the oil filler region saw some sludge. I scrapped and removed the crusty sludge.

The car doesn't burn oil, but the oil looks very dirty and thick at 4000 miles. After the oil change, the oil look very clean until 3000 to 3500 miles. Any way to test for sludge without removing the oil pan and valve covers?

The sensors in the thottle body gets dirty. Was replaced at 65000 and now is getting a similar symptom.

Dave

I've got a 98 Sienna, 142,000 miles. I change the oil every 3 to 4 K miles and have always used 10W40 dino oil. Never had any problems and she still runs like new (knock on wood).

Wow, it's been more than 4 years for this thread. Amazing.

Mine is 2000 LE. Around 75000 miles now. I change the oil every 3000 miles although the manual says 7500 miles. I only use dino oil, 5W-30 as specified in the manual. The car is still happy so far and I will keep doing this 3k oil change (I have done this to all my cars for the past 10 years).

I never bother checking under the valve cover to see if there is any sludge, but the engine doesn't burn oil, I believe that's the best indication.

To make a long story short, I bought a 2003 Sienna at the end of July 2003. It developed a sludge problem at 32K in 2005. Because I had oil change documentation they fixed it all at their cost.

I found evidence that Toyota had sent letters to previous owners about this problem warning to change oil more frequently. Because of the time I bought, I never received the letter. But I have been changing the oil religiously myself.

Now at 111,000 miles the oil light comes on. I had just checked the oil the day before and all looked good. In the end, the dealership found that the seal in the back was gushing oil. The dipstick always showed that a good amount of oil, so maybe gushing is a relative thing. I had smelled burning when the oil light came on though it it smelled more electrical than oil. They did say that in removing the valve cover, everything was as clean as a whistle there.

Anyway, they wanted to drop the transmission and do the seal, timing belt, etc. to the tune of $3000.00. When they were done, the oil light still came on and they wanted to check the bearings to the tune of another $2500.00. I put the brakes on at that point.

So they offered to cut my repair costs thus far in half if I agreed to buy another Sienna from them at a reduced cost and a few grand for my current Sienna.

I did my homework and found that what they were offering up front did not include all incentives. I stated that I did not want to haggle and if they would just provide me with their bottom line offer, I'd shop around (including looking at Odysseys). Before I left the dealership, they had given me two other bottom line offers :smooch: It's a bummer that they did not do that right away when knowing my situation.

Anyway, I'm still thinking that the first overhaul at 32K may have contributed to this situation.

Any comments from owners of 2004-2009 Sienna owners about your experiences?

Wow! This is a long running thread!!

Thanks.

Auto-rx will clean out the sludge thats killing your engine.
www.auto-rx.com (http://www.auto-rx.com)

In my opinion, oil light comes on while the oil level is ok means oil pressure switch or wiring problem. The $3000 thing was a rip off. Since the seal, timing belt, etc. are by far even remotely related to the oil light. Well, I believe the dealer learned from your agreeing to do these unrelated stuff that you probably don't know too much about cars, it's easy money for them. So they try again with the $2500 to see if you will fall for it again.

As to why it happen again after the engine overhaul, I can only say, yes, it definitely contributed to the problem. But, it really doesn't matter. No body will admit it.

I had my tranny replaced 2 times under warranty, neither time the dealer did the whole job right the first time. I had to go back for some issues right after the repair. I was lucky it's all paid by warranty.

So, I am glad you stopped the bleeding. I would suggest you to get some opinions from local shops, especially if you know some honest and dependable mechanics. Good luck and let us know what's going on.

Am second owner of 1999 Sienna with 176K. This car never had this problem.
Previus owner said he changed oil every 4,000(ish) miles and they always use Reg. 5-30 or 10-30 oil.
I got car in late 2006 with 138k on it and I've used Regular Castrol 10-30 High Mileage oil and a frame Tough Guard or K&N Preium filters. My oil changes also range around ever 4K. But the last two have been at 5.5K and 6K respectively.
But toyota does recommend an oil change at every 3K for this car in this model year. I don't think they even diffenenate between 7,000 oil change and a 3,000 for "harsh condition driving". So I think every 3,000 is the standard for this car.

To make a long story short, I bought a 2003 Sienna at the end of July 2003. It developed a sludge problem at 32K in 2005. Because I had oil change documentation they fixed it all at their cost.

I found evidence that Toyota had sent letters to previous owners about this problem warning to change oil more frequently. Because of the time I bought, I never received the letter. But I have been changing the oil religiously myself.

Now at 111,000 miles the oil light comes on. I had just checked the oil the day before and all looked good. In the end, the dealership found that the seal in the back was gushing oil. The dipstick always showed that a good amount of oil, so maybe gushing is a relative thing. I had smelled burning when the oil light came on though it it smelled more electrical than oil. They did say that in removing the valve cover, everything was as clean as a whistle there.

Anyway, they wanted to drop the transmission and do the seal, timing belt, etc. to the tune of $3000.00. When they were done, the oil light still came on and they wanted to check the bearings to the tune of another $2500.00. I put the brakes on at that point.

So they offered to cut my repair costs thus far in half if I agreed to buy another Sienna from them at a reduced cost and a few grand for my current Sienna.

I did my homework and found that what they were offering up front did not include all incentives. I stated that I did not want to haggle and if they would just provide me with their bottom line offer, I'd shop around (including looking at Odysseys). Before I left the dealership, they had given me two other bottom line offers :smooch: It's a bummer that they did not do that right away when knowing my situation.

Anyway, I'm still thinking that the first overhaul at 32K may have contributed to this situation.

Any comments from owners of 2004-2009 Sienna owners about your experiences?

Wow! This is a long running thread!!

Thanks.

I have a 2004 Sienna with 125k. It started puffing smoke and burning oil like crazy two weeks ago. The dealer tells me I need a new motor at 4k. I just spoke to Toyota and they say this is year is not part of the problem. I am going to picket the dealer. I will be certain to cost Toyota at least 4k in sales.

In my opinion, oil light comes on while the oil level is ok means oil pressure switch or wiring problem. The $3000 thing was a rip off. Since the seal, timing belt, etc. are by far even remotely related to the oil light. Well, I believe the dealer learned from your agreeing to do these unrelated stuff that you probably don't know too much about cars, it's easy money for them. So they try again with the $2500 to see if you will fall for it again.

As to why it happen again after the engine overhaul, I can only say, yes, it definitely contributed to the problem. But, it really doesn't matter. No body will admit it.

I had my tranny replaced 2 times under warranty, neither time the dealer did the whole job right the first time. I had to go back for some issues right after the repair. I was lucky it's all paid by warranty.

So, I am glad you stopped the bleeding. I would suggest you to get some opinions from local shops, especially if you know some honest and dependable mechanics. Good luck and let us know what's going on.


Proman,

I had forgotten about this, and keeping you up to date until someone else sent a message asking if Toyota had done anything to help me.

Oh, I certainly agree about the $3000 repair (they know that I know nothing about cars beyond putting gas in and driving :)

I did end up purchasing a 2009 Sienna. I did this because the dealership offered the free oil replacement for the life of the vehicle and guaranteed the engine for the life of the vehicle. I'm not sure how much of that is really free, but they did end up giving me a really good price on the new one (given all the things that had happened to me in the past).

I DO still feel wronged because I should still be driving the first vehicle I bought from Toyota!!

Interesting to hear that some issues are still popping up beyond 2003.

One thing that I had not noted was that I did happen to know the president of the dealership that I was going to this last time, so I'm sure that his influence helped some in the price that they finally gave for the new one. Even with that, I still feel like I came out on the short end.

Good luck, Tim!!

Congratulations on the new van. It sounds a very good deal to have lifetime oil change and the engine graranteed for the life of the vehicle. Is the oil chnage only good at that dealership? And the engine guarantee sounds too good to be true. Hope you have it on the paper. Let us know (maybe in couple years) how things going.

I've got 154K miles on a 98 sienna. I change the oil between 4 and 5K miles. No problems. Just change the oil and go on with your life!

Our 2001 Sienna has 305,000 miles on the engine with no problems. Until it hit 200,000 miles, we did oil changes at 3,000 miles. After 200,000 miles, we went to 5,000 mile oil change intervals.

We usually do oil changes at the Toyota dealer. If I use Jiffy Lube, I watch the techs to make sure they are doing the job correctly, and verify the oil level after leaving.

I check the oil level once a week and add oil when the oil is down half a quart. Many folks show up for their oil changes with their oil level a quart low, or even two quarts low...I don't ever let the oil level go down more than half a quart.

The sludge problem involved less than 1% of the listed engines. The most common pattern with owners is that they were mostly driving short trips of less than five miles, driving where the temperature was less than 50 degrees, and changing their oil every 7,000 or 8,000 miles. Short trips of less than five miles in cold temperatures are most likely to cause sludge and gelling problems, and drivers with that pattern need to change their oil every 3,000 miles.

I am very disappointed to read in this thread that Toyota is still having sludge issues with their engines as late as 2004. I am in the market for a preowned minvan and have looked at the Sienna along with an Odyssey and Caravan.

Makes me think I better stay away from the Sienna. If I were buying new it would be a different story since I don't have to be concerned about how the vehicle was cared for. But it sounds like The toyota engines are prone to this problem.

The sludge problem occured with LESS than 1% of Toyota engines built between 1997 and 2001. There have been ZERO documented and proven cases of a Toyota engine built after 2001 that was PROPERLY maintained having a sludge problem...precisely ZERO.

According to the massive Consumer Reports data base of surveys of vehicle owners, the Toyota's built between 1997 and 2001 match Honda as being the MOST reliable vehicles built in that era...no American built van or mini-van comes close.

If you are buying any used vehicle, you should have it inspected by a good technician. A fifteen minute inspection will easily discern whether or not a vehicle has any sort of sludge problem.

The vehicles of any brand that are most likely to have engine problems are those with one particular usage pattern: used ONLY for trips of less than five miles, especially in cold temperatures. Such vehicles never get fully warmed up and so engine blow-by products built up in the oil and begin to destroy the engine. If an engine is fully warmed up, such by-products are burned off.

So, ironically, a used vehicle with 100,000 miles that was used exclusively for highway driving will have an engine in MUCH better condition than a vehicle with just 20,000 miles that was used exclusively for trips of just one or two miles each...the "grandma driving to church" vehicle.

The grandma who drives her car ONLY one or two miles a day needs very frequent oil changes...every 2,000 or 3,000 miles at the outside.