BMW E46 M3 vs C5 Corvette

I've been leaning to buy an M3 becos I have driven a few older (E36) models and really like the way the car feels and handles. A "cow"worker of mine keeps dissing it and says the Z06 and C5 will kill an M3 in terms of handling. I accept that the Corvette is a more powerful car but in terms of handling? Opinions anyone?

the M3 is no match for the z06 in any performance category. the Z06 out grips and out slaloms the thing. and it destroyes it straight line. the only E46 that might stand a chance would be the M3 CSL. but that is too raw of a car, cuase the trunk lid is made of plastic, the bottom of hte trunk floor is made of card board, the rear windshield is made of plastic, there is no radio, you can't drive the car in the rain or you'll kill yourself becusae its factory tires are practically slicks. and you need to sign a waiver before you buy the car. so if its a standard C5 i would take the M3 in a heartbeat. but if its a Z06, sorry but the Z06 is more for me.

Tough call b/c remember the C5's interior...I mean it's not the most important thing on my mind but it is what I will be spending my time looking at. The M3's interior has it beat my a country mile...and it's far more practical...

But if we are just going for performance numbers and such....than the ZO6 wins...

Regular C5 Vette vs. M3...M3 wins w/o a blink...

The M3 rips the standard C5 apart, that car is so flawed, it isn't funny, in every possible catagorey, might I add.


The Z06 is a different story, the performance could make up for any other short comings that it'd have against the M3, but I'd still take an M3 if I was going to drive the thing daily. A perfectly fast-enough car, with that much more practicality.

The M3 rips the standard C5 apart, that car is so flawed, it isn't funny, in every possible catagorey, might I add.

Every possible catagory, except acceleration, top speed, grip, brakes(actually, I'm unsure about this one.......but I can't find any data either way), cost...

Every possible catagory, except acceleration, top speed, grip, brakes(actually, I'm unsure about this one.......but I can't find any data either way), cost...
Accleration??? What does a Corvette C5 run, 0-100 km/h, 4.8??? I saw an M3 manual do the 0-100 in 4.9 seconds flat, with a moderately good driver, I believe they can run faster than that though. So the two cars are more or less similar, so there's no point saying that one is better than the other. It's actually disappointing, I thought the Vette with all that extra displacement and Torque'd be faster than the M3, but not so.......

Top Speed??? Remove the M3's electronic speed limiter, problem solved, not an expensive job at all.

Grip?? That's the Corvettes problem, the stock Rubber is so pathetic, that it needs to actually be cheered on to get through a Corner, while the M3 will let loose, but if you know what you're doing, you won't lose it. Remember, the Corvette is designed for America, which I swear the aim of the C5 was to design for fat, bald 40 year olds, looking for some lost youth. The M3 is designed in Germany, known for it's impeccably good standards of driving, so it can be twitchier if it wants.

Brakes, I much prefer the M3 brakes, league of thier own really.

Cost??? As in Purchase price??? Or maintenence??? What are the prices of the two cars in the States?? I'm too lazy to look them up and maintenence isn't too bad on an M3's, more and more people are becoming able to service them, but the parts are a pain, if you are in the States, but the cars are made in Germany, while the 'Vettes are made in Kentucky, hence parts'd be easier to source.

I can justify the M3's extra cost if there is one, just look at the amazing technology and advancement packed into them, add the extra luxuty equipment and it becomes more justified.



'Ysee???

I agree with that.
I would take an M3 anyday over a corvette C5.

MSRP for the C5 43,995
MSRP for the M3 (coupe) 46,500

For in the states price.

Both have a very similar price tag. For $395 extra you can upgrade the C5 with the Z51 suspension package.

An M3 would by no means rip a C5 apart. Especially considering that the M3 weights over 150lbs more, a smaller tire surface, a strut multilink suspension system vs. a C5 uneven double wishbone suspension front and back, and smaller track and width. Not to mention its a five seater.

I also wouldn't count on a M3 toping out higher than a C5. Even if to take the 155mph limiter off, it has a less hp/torque and a worse drag coefficient to push a heavier car. I couldn't see anymore than 170 or so from a stock M3. As far as brakes go, the C5 is known for their impressive stopping distances. A C5 with all that extra torque and hp will be faster than a M3. The C5 getting worse hp/liter over the M3 only explains why the M3 consumes more fuel to do so. This also makes it thermally more inefficient than the vette to produce less hp and consume more fuel.

Ride comfort will favorably go to the M3, and every other ammenity it serves.

Bottom line: Get two good drivers familiar with both and let them find out. My opinion favors the C5 to outperform. Only if the interior didn't wreak on the C5, only then I would prefer it daily over an M3.

Accleration??? What does a Corvette C5 run, 0-100 km/h, 4.8??? I saw an M3 manual do the 0-100 in 4.9 seconds flat, with a moderately good driver, I believe they can run faster than that though. So the two cars are more or less similar, so there's no point saying that one is better than the other. It's actually disappointing, I thought the Vette with all that extra displacement and Torque'd be faster than the M3, but not so.......
The Vette is faster, especially after 100mph. The C5 traps at 109-110 in the 1/4.
Top Speed??? Remove the M3's electronic speed limiter, problem solved, not an expensive job at all.
The M3 can go 175mph?
Grip?? That's the Corvettes problem, the stock Rubber is so pathetic, that it needs to actually be cheered on to get through a Corner, while the M3 will let loose, but if you know what you're doing, you won't lose it. Remember, the Corvette is designed for America, which I swear the aim of the C5 was to design for fat, bald 40 year olds, looking for some lost youth. The M3 is designed in Germany, known for it's impeccably good standards of driving, so it can be twitchier if it wants.
Grip goes to the C5. This is an objective test.
Brakes, I much prefer the M3 brakes, league of thier own really.
Brakes? You do realize that the C5 and Z06 have the same brakes? There are tires/weight differences though.
Cost??? As in Purchase price??? Or maintenence??? What are the prices of the two cars in the States?? I'm too lazy to look them up and maintenence isn't too bad on an M3's, more and more people are becoming able to service them, but the parts are a pain, if you are in the States, but the cars are made in Germany, while the 'Vettes are made in Kentucky, hence parts'd be easier to source.
Cost, all would be in favor of the C5. Purchase price, maintenence, and modifications.
I can justify the M3's extra cost if there is one, just look at the amazing technology and advancement packed into them, add the extra luxuty equipment and it becomes more justified.
That's great that you can justify the extra cost, that isn't what you said earlier though..."The M3 rips the standard C5 apart, that car is so flawed, it isn't funny, in every possible catagorey, might I add."

Oh, and I forgot one.........fuel consumption.


'Ysee???

I don't.

...

The Struts work well for BMW, don't knock 'em, my 330 has one of the best suspensions I've ever driven, it's easily in the league of most Double Wishbone setups. It's all about the engineering.

And like I said anything relating to the Corvette rubber is irrelevant, if it's crap, basically you'd have to add more money to buy some decent tyres for the 'Vette as well.

Fuel Consumption???? If you can afford either of these two, then fuel is no concern.

You are obviously missing the point. The M3 does not "rip apart" the M3 in every possible category. Oh, a Z51 Vette has better grip than an M3 even with the crap rubber.

MSRP for the C5 43,995
MSRP for the M3 (coupe) 46,500

For in the states price.

Both have a very similar price tag. For $395 extra you can upgrade the C5 with the Z51 suspension package.

An M3 would by no means rip a C5 apart. Especially considering that the M3 weights over 150lbs more, a smaller tire surface, a strut multilink suspension system vs. a C5 uneven double wishbone suspension front and back, and smaller track and width. Not to mention its a five seater.

I also wouldn't count on a M3 toping out higher than a C5. Even if to take the 155mph limiter off, it has a less hp/torque and a worse drag coefficient to push a heavier car. I couldn't see anymore than 170 or so from a stock M3. As far as brakes go, the C5 is known for their impressive stopping distances. A C5 with all that extra torque and hp will be faster than a M3. The C5 getting worse hp/liter over the M3 only explains why the M3 consumes more fuel to do so. This also makes it thermally more inefficient than the vette to produce less hp and consume more fuel.

Ride comfort will favorably go to the M3, and every other ammenity it serves.

Bottom line: Get two good drivers familiar with both and let them find out. My opinion favors the C5 to outperform. Only if the interior didn't wreak on the C5, only then I would prefer it daily over an M3.

i agree with you, but add in gear ratios, and drag for that good gas mileage for the c5, especially on the highway. there are more to it, and some of it may not sound like much, but they all add up.

The Struts work well for BMW, don't knock 'em, my 330 has one of the best suspensions I've ever driven, it's easily in the league of most Double Wishbone setups. It's all about the engineering.

And like I said anything relating to the Corvette rubber is irrelevant, if it's crap, basically you'd have to add more money to buy some decent tyres for the 'Vette as well.

Fuel Consumption???? If you can afford either of these two, then fuel is no concern.

like mr payne said, the m3 does not rip the c5 apart, are you kidding me jimster? i think that the c5 actually has a little better performance than the m3, and it also has more room for improvement. to make it more fair, the z51 version of the c5 should be compared to the m3, since it would be closer to the m3 higher price, and i bet that would beat the m3 in every category for sure. last time i checked, the base c5 got 0-60 in like 4.5 sec, and the quarter at around 13.1, oh yea and that was the convertible vette in car and driver. im sure that the c5 would beat the m3 in a straight line with equal drivers. for the track, im not sure, but i think that the base c5 will beat the m3, and the z51 will beat it for sure. just add on better rubber for the base c5, or z51, and it should improve its performance even more.

The Struts work well for BMW, don't knock 'em, my 330 has one of the best suspensions I've ever driven, it's easily in the league of most Double Wishbone setups. It's all about the engineering.

And like I said anything relating to the Corvette rubber is irrelevant, if it's crap, basically you'd have to add more money to buy some decent tyres for the 'Vette as well.

Fuel Consumption???? If you can afford either of these two, then fuel is no concern.

I never meant to knock the BMW struts setup (though it somwhat sounds like it), and I'm sorry bout that. I was just pointing out that a strut/multilink setup isn't as ideal for track like a double wishbone setup. Strut/multilink setups allow for a smaller width which can help for weight, but IMO it doesn't add up enough to a double wishbone. And as far as tires go, if anything can hold over a .9g skidpad then their pretty good street tires if you ask me. Remember a Vette has 100+ lb-ft torque over the M3, if you don't know how to handle it, then you can be in some trouble when it comes to cornering.

like mr payne said, the m3 does not rip the c5 apart, are you kidding me jimster? i think that the c5 actually has a little better performance than the m3, and it also has more room for improvement. to make it more fair, the z51 version of the c5 should be compared to the m3, since it would be closer to the m3 higher price, and i bet that would beat the m3 in every category for sure. last time i checked, the base c5 got 0-60 in like 4.5 sec, and the quarter at around 13.1, oh yea and that was the convertible vette in car and driver. im sure that the c5 would beat the m3 in a straight line with equal drivers. for the track, im not sure, but i think that the base c5 will beat the m3, and the z51 will beat it for sure. just add on better rubber for the base c5, or z51, and it should improve its performance even more.
I"ve never tested a Z51 Corvette, but I took a standard Corvette around a track and sorry, but I honestly can't imagine that thing taking out an M3.

Could somebody shed some light as to what the Z51 pack consists of??? (And anyone who says suspension gets banned, I want the specifics)

Like I said, this isn't just a performance test, it's an ownership proposition, if you care to re-read what the thread starter wrote up. So lets look at the Corvette as a practical car, shall we??

Firstly, it is wide, as a matter of fact, I can think of few wider cars, if you parked it in a European parking space, the Corvette would be loaded with parking dings, it'd have an easier time in a Seppo parking space, but fuck, it's still too wide to be practical IMHO.

The M3 has many a creature comfort as well, all enveloped in a masterpiece of interior build quality, the Corvette has Aircon and a Radio put into a dashboard made out of melted Jelly-babies, the ergonomics are also terrible. Space is no concern in either, but the M3 does have two useable seats in the back, in case you want to carry some more people, under 6 foot tall.

How do you know a Z51 will beat an M3 for sure, have you taken both around a race track???? I haven't, hence I don't make silly statements such as that.

I"ve never tested a Z51 Corvette, but I took a standard Corvette around a track and sorry, but I honestly can't imagine that thing taking out an M3.

Could somebody shed some light as to what the Z51 pack consists of??? (And anyone who says suspension gets banned, I want the specifics)

Like I said, this isn't just a performance test, it's an ownership proposition, if you care to re-read what the thread starter wrote up. So lets look at the Corvette as a practical car, shall we??

Firstly, it is wide, as a matter of fact, I can think of few wider cars, if you parked it in a European parking space, the Corvette would be loaded with parking dings, it'd have an easier time in a Seppo parking space, but fuck, it's still too wide to be practical IMHO.

The M3 has many a creature comfort as well, all enveloped in a masterpiece of interior build quality, the Corvette has Aircon and a Radio put into a dashboard made out of melted Jelly-babies, the ergonomics are also terrible. Space is no concern in either, but the M3 does have two useable seats in the back, in case you want to carry some more people, under 6 foot tall.

How do you know a Z51 will beat an M3 for sure, have you taken both around a race track???? I haven't, hence I don't make silly statements such as that.

A Z51 suspension package consist of.....damn I don't want to type all this. Here is a site with each Vette option (including Z06) and test results with standard vette tires and Z06 tires to get a better idea.
http://corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/2004/suspcomp.html

And you are right, this is an ownership proposition meaning more than just "which is faster" talk. Thats why I would take the M3, its more practial. I find the 'Corvette being wide' comment hillarious cause its the honest truth LOL.

I"ve never tested a Z51 Corvette, but I took a standard Corvette around a track and sorry, but I honestly can't imagine that thing taking out an M3.
Well, the imagination is a powerful thing.
Could somebody shed some light as to what the Z51 pack consists of??? (And anyone who says suspension gets banned, I want the specifics)
Stuff.
Like I said, this isn't just a performance test, it's an ownership proposition, if you care to re-read what the thread starter wrote up. So lets look at the Corvette as a practical car, shall we??
Well, if that's the case lets just compare a 35K used Z06.
Firstly, it is wide, as a matter of fact, I can think of few wider cars, if you parked it in a European parking space, the Corvette would be loaded with parking dings, it'd have an easier time in a Seppo parking space, but fuck, it's still too wide to be practical IMHO.
Umm, it's 3.6 inches more wide than an M3. You make it seem like it's a Hummer or something.
The M3 has many a creature comfort as well, all enveloped in a masterpiece of interior build quality, the Corvette has Aircon and a Radio put into a dashboard made out of melted Jelly-babies, the ergonomics are also terrible. Space is no concern in either, but the M3 does have two useable seats in the back, in case you want to carry some more people, under 6 foot tall.
Ergonomics on a Corvette are terrible? "Right."
How do you know a Z51 will beat an M3 for sure, have you taken both around a race track???? I haven't, hence I don't make silly statements such as that.
Actually, you did make a silly statement like that. You said the M3 rips the standard C5 apart in every possible category(which means the M3 rips a standard C5 apart on the track). It obviously doesn't.
...

I"ve never tested a Z51 Corvette, but I took a standard Corvette around a track and sorry, but I honestly can't imagine that thing taking out an M3.

Could somebody shed some light as to what the Z51 pack consists of??? (And anyone who says suspension gets banned, I want the specifics)

Like I said, this isn't just a performance test, it's an ownership proposition, if you care to re-read what the thread starter wrote up. So lets look at the Corvette as a practical car, shall we??

Firstly, it is wide, as a matter of fact, I can think of few wider cars, if you parked it in a European parking space, the Corvette would be loaded with parking dings, it'd have an easier time in a Seppo parking space, but fuck, it's still too wide to be practical IMHO.

The M3 has many a creature comfort as well, all enveloped in a masterpiece of interior build quality, the Corvette has Aircon and a Radio put into a dashboard made out of melted Jelly-babies, the ergonomics are also terrible. Space is no concern in either, but the M3 does have two useable seats in the back, in case you want to carry some more people, under 6 foot tall.

How do you know a Z51 will beat an M3 for sure, have you taken both around a race track???? I haven't, hence I don't make silly statements such as that.

it might of seemed like that, but i meant that i think the z51 can beat it for sure, and it looks like your the one that says silly statements like that. another thing, im not trying to be mean to you, but from reading all your posts, you seem to be in my opinion, really biased.

How about track performance? On Top Gear they test cars on their Lotus designed test track...here are some track times:

Zonda 1:23
Konenigsegg 1:24
M3 CSL 1:28
Mitsubishi Evo8 1:29
Lamborghini Murcielago 1:29
Alpina Z8 1:29
Aston Martin DB7 GT 1:30
E46 M3 1:31
Wrx Impreza Sti 1:31
Lotus Espirit 1:32
SL55 AMG 1:33
Ferarri 575 1:35
Aston Martin Vanquish 1:36

So how fast do you think the stig can drive a corvette on that track? =D

Something about those times does not work. The Z06 can decimate a Z8, but struggles with a Murcielago. And those cars somehow got the same time? I'd guess 1:29 for the Z06 based on those times...and the relatively slow speed nature of that test track.

Note the word Alpina in the front of Z8???

in this comparison i'd take the BMW for every day commuting and stuff, but the vette for when i wanted to have fun/show off a bit. as for the top gear times i have never taken them too seriously. I have a feeling stig had an offday with the Murcielago cause i figure it should be faster than the EVO. it is impossible for him to take every corner perfectly with every car so the numbers vary on how the conditions were/how well he actually drove. I remember that it was pretty slick with the Murcielago.

well i know that the 350z track edition or whichever version it is, is a little faster than the e46 m3 on a track with lots of turns, i dont know if this helps any.

The stig did both the Pagani Zonda (1:23) and the Murcielago (1:29) on the same day. They did mention that its hard to launch with the Murcielago coz of clutch slippage of you go full throttle from launch..

The Zonda ran a 1:23.8, and the Koenigsegg ran a 1:23.9, so techinically they should be both 1:24. I've always rounded by the five rule, not the 8 rule hehe. However; i do agree with Lamborsari in acknowledging the human error that can never be unexpected. Some cars were also tested in wet conditions (as I watched one comparing a S2000/Z4/Boxster).

Anyways, I cannot take those for gospel is pretty much what I'm relating to. I'm still going to stick with the C5 having the advantage over the E46 until furthermore.

If the Stig had launched the Murcie- it's be almost as fast as the Zonda- but the danger to the transimission was probably too much for theStig (and the BBC) to risk ;)

by that measure anything on that list is almost as fast as the Zonda =P

1:23.8 to 1:29+ is over 5 seconds, you can't make that up from launch alone, coz 5 seconds at 80 or 90 miles per hour is like freakin 1/7 of a mile =P

well ill tell you what i know - the z51 vette is a c5 is a bit more heavy duty sway bar thats about it - the corvettes stock tires doo kinda suck witch is why i switched (lol) ok stock c5 vs m3 - iv seen them go at in a auto x ------- cones in a big parking lot they are pretty much the same i think both got the same time almost the m3 was like a second faster- but the track was in favor for the m3 -- the track was too small for the vette to get into its power band - were it really starts too pull- and in a straight line the vette wins i dont care if its a pro driver that car has no tq and is why i dont like it too much- i raced a one on the streets not even a week ago 50 to 100 pull about 2 cars on him and pulling harder on him till he stoped - has for the vette interior i like it i think its confy sure its not has fancy has teh m3's but the vette is a real sports car not a car to goo have a picnic in ---- and i donno i read a comment about how the c5 is too wide -- whats that all about? the c5 is fine i never had one promblem with that - i remmber it took a little getting used to when i frist got the car the hoods big and at first your kinda worried about it while you goign through traffic but you get used to it real fast -- the vette is the funnest car i have been in - all the power you want when you want you dont need to go to high rpm's like in the m3- - - and about modding! teh c5 wins that hands down its a chevy small block i mean come on what dont they have for it - adn if you wanna handle better get some sway bars adn you can run with z06's for about 500$ bpp has a good sway bar kit and if you care about speed well in auto put some good sticky tires a torqe converter some 3;73 gears and your in the low 12's for about 1 g - (car has to be auto of corse) add a 100 shot on top of that and you can kill almost anything on the road --- here its what some guy did to his wifes transam( same motor ) http://www.thunderracing.com/projects/?action=read&pgid=69 -- - has for the m3's modding its really price and you wont get too far

don't revive year old threads.

see here.
http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=162405