rb25det vs. 4g63

Hey guys, my friends getting a rb25det dropped into his 96 240sx and i wanna be able to kill him atleast on the straight aways. is there a possibility for me to do that and if there is what can i do. btw... i own a 97 GS-t

yes you can beat him what mods do you have and what mods will he have?
i believe a stock rb25det in a 240 will pull mid 13's with mods low 13 high 12's easily, im assuming you know the limits and capabilities of the 4663 with little mods and upgraded turbo you can see near 400hp.
good luck
1

Stock for stock he will beat you.

Well so far im stocked in my car but im lookin to start raising the psi on my turbo with a BOV exhaust intake then getting a boost controller but im not sure if thats ganna be enough.... what do u guys think?

at that rate, you have no chance again

example: I know someone with a SR20det S13
mods: fmic,fuel pump,stock turbo,afc. 1/4 Time:13.5@103

now imagine what the RB25det can do :)
so start saving $$

Ok then what do i need to start whoopin ass? Turbo up grade, NOs...? Help Please

depends on how much u wanna kick his ass? if u looking to really kick him in the toosh get a 20g turbo from Slowboys for about 1,000. next get a k&n 9" filter and replace the intake with a new one [brand doesn't matter aslong as it has k&n filter]. u can also try new cams and pulleys. im sure people will give u more suggestions later.

the rb25 isht all its cracked up 2 be
not in the 240
the traction sucks alot of hp little hp i think if he has the supporin mods (exhasut,intake,i\c boc, pips,fule and air managment) and the eclipse has the same thing with a big turbo the i think the dsm might win.
rember its just a motor it doesnt have mystical powers. the 4g63 is very capable of winning with lots of tuning.
good luck
1

The 20G is a little big for a GS-T. That would be a little bit to much lag for a FWD to handle. I would go with a G18 or smaller.

With the lag you will have to play catch up with the 240.

I think you need to start of by doing a complete service on the car. And doing a wack load of research before you go and throw mods at the car. But if you are really set on beating him just go and get a 75shot of nitrous and go that way, less hastle on your side and you can beat him for sure.

Actually, people look for laggy turbos in FWDs. You get less wheelspin. When a small turbo like a 14b/16g spools up fast it hits the tires hard and breaks them loose. A local guy had a a turbo that was siginificantly larger than a 20g on a 1g FWD talon and did quite well with it ;)

I supose that is true, but due to that fact you could end up losing anyway. But if it were me i would stick to a 18G just because it offeres a little less lag and you can make good numbers with them.

But could you not also do modifications to the suspension, and driveline to alow a smaller turbo to work to your advantage. If the car was set up properly you could get good traction out of a smaller turbo set up.

Just my thinking anyway.

18g is known to be shyte on dSMs. For whatever reasons, the 16Gs usually do better. That being said, the lag will not be an issue since after each gear shift you are well into boosting range for turbo even larger than 20g. I didnt find that lag really slowed me down until my latest turbo, a TDO6H with GT30/40 hybrid compressor wheel. Spools at 4400 rpm, and takes some time to recover after shifts. But this is a rare case, no one else on this forum as far as I know is running a turbo this large. As far as I'm concerned, and in my experience, a 20g does not lag enough to make even worth the time it takes to type the word lag. Its not an issue, unless you like to floor it at 1200 rpm.

You don't exactly need full boost on a GST in first gear, like GSXracer said. Plus, you won't be faster with a smaller turbo in any case. You wouldnt downgrade turbos to be faster because of lag. I think GSXracer and LandoAWD are the only two 20g users that I know on AF.

Im currently contimplating a 20G or bigger. But i dont know whos turbo i should go with.

Any ideas?

Be glad to help. What car, I'm assuming DSM, and what are the goals for the car. HP, ET/MPH, etc. The turbo is the ultimate factor in what the car will be capable of, so its best to size it to your goals, then ask your self if it will work in your budget, is this a daily driver, etc.

Its a 1999 Eclipse GSX, very low kms, id like to be able to make 450hp or so but without winding out the turbo to the max which would be the case of a 20G turbo.

The 1/4 mile is no big deal for me. But i supose a mid to low 12. And ultimate speed, well the faster the better. Mu buget is , to say the least, unlimited. My shopp that i work at is a performance shop and they are suplying me with whatever parts i want. And it will be a daily driver.

I have looked into many turbos but i just can not decide and i would realy appreciate someones input who actualy has a large turbo.

I was thinking maby the Buschur Racing BR580. But i think that it has an internal wastegate and i do not want that.

Also maby a Forced Performance FP3065.

But i did a bit more research and discouvered that a Mitsu. 20G is good for almost 500hp with appropriate mods. It requires an external wastegate.

But it said it is a direct bolt on and i dont wnat that. If i buy an aftermarket exhaust manifold will it fit properly and do aftermarket manufacturers offer there maniflods with the proper flange to fit the 20G?

That sould be good for now. As of now im leaning towards the 20G

The only thing I would like to say is try to avoid the name brand parts. I much prefer the DSM specific shops, wether its turbos, exhausts, etc. But obviously it doesntmatter where you get off the shelf parts like AFC, etc. That being said...

The 20g will make that power, butlike oyu said that will be about its limit. A 50 trim isnt much larger, so I would be looking for even more than that. I'm thinking GT13 from SBR, or one of the FP turbos like the 3065 etc, for bolt on solutions. If you want to get a turbonetics or cast manifold and go full t3/t4 then the stage 3/60-1 is comparable and will fit the bill. Either of these turbos will lag more than a 20g though. I got 25 psi at ~3700 rpm on the TDO6H 20g, and I get 4400 on the current turbo but that is bigger than either of the two I mentioned above. I dont mind it, just keep it in mind. You'd be looking at something around 4000 rpm to 25 psi on the above mentioned turbos. Persuse the SBR and FP websites, they are the only two turbo vendors I really trust. You can get an idea of what is out there for conventional turbos and the bolt on hybrids. If anything catches your eye and you have questions about it, let me know.

www.slowboyracing.com
www.forcedperformance.net.

You replied while I was posting, but you read mymind on the 3065 apparently. BRis another turbo vendor I would trust, forgot about them. FYI, any turbo that comes with an internal can be setup for an external. For a manifold mounted external, weld the internal flapper shut and shitcan the actuator. For an O2 housing mounted gate, remove the flapper and hog it out witha die grinder.

I dont know of any AFM manifold that has a mitsu flange, aside from the shyte Pacesetter one. They are all going to be flanged for t3 or t4 turbine housings, which also requires you pay for a matching O2 housing. The 2g exhaust manifold has run 9s/10s, and the EVO is nice as well.

If you do go 20g, it may be worthwhile to ask SBR about the TDO6H version, the one I ran. That turbo was one of my favorite I have ever run. I damn near ran 11s on it on pump gas (12.0 at 117)b with a less than perfect launch (I ran the 11.84 in my sig at the same 117). That requires about 430 whp according to other poeples times/dyno numbers. If you ar esure thats the most you want from your car, it may be a god option. I believe its 999 setup for external gate. A 2g or EVO mani will be more than aequate for it. Stock O2 housing with some porting, or tubular if you must, will also be plenty of flow. So the cost to get into it is lower.

A 20G will suit you fine. There are 20g's deep into 11's. I believe there are at least a few big 16g's also in 11's. At least 12.2, so keep that in mind.

You can get an externally gated 16G and 20G, as well as internal.
Why do you not want a bolt-on?

EDIT>> If I said anything repetitive it's because there were 2 posts made while I was typing :) Took a long look at a times list.

95 GSXracer i PMd you but you just answered muy question. :D

Well i dont want a direct bolt on because i do not trust OEM manifolds. I have had instances where there have been manifolds that have literly welded themselves to the turbo flange. So id like to go aftermarket. But i supose i could just get an EVO one and have it acusticly honed.

I have never seen or heard of that happening on DSMs, I wuldnt worry about it. The 2g manifod is very good. The EVO is slightly better, but it takes less porting ot match a 7cm turbine housing. The 2g also doesnt crack, while the 1g is usually a mess

I will have to consider that option. Maby i will just have teh manifold honed out properly.

O im excited, i go to work in the morning and ill let him know what my plans are:) Should have the turbo by the end of the month if i decide tonight.

Whats the diff between the regular 20g and the TDO6H 20G??

Will the TDO6H 20G suport a max hp of 500?? I checked it out a SBR but it said for people looking for 400hp.

Ok then say im able to get that 20G turbo is that ganna be enough to whoop him and my enginee is really high milage so im thinkin of doin a swap to a 1G 4g63 could i just swap the turbo over to the new engine?

On DSM tuners it says it will work with a set up around 500hp.

Im thinking of a max boost level of 35psi. At that level i could push the 500 mark could i not? With an upgraded fuel system, intercoler, BOV, engine electronics, cams, and such.

I did 400 whp on pump gas on the same boost/flow I had with the TDO6H 20g. So that is clearly a low estimate. Maybe to make the larger turbos more appealing. ;) Who knows. 500 would be possible IMO, on race gas.

The difference with the tod6h is that it is the largest mitsubishi turnine wheel we use. SOme poeple put it on a TDo5h setup (think 14b, 16g, 18g, etc) for quick spooling. This turbo has actually run 10s on Tim Switzers car (bushur). The TDO6 is the next size up, and the 06H is the largest. Its used on the FP Green and Red if you are familiar with those. The Red has gone 9s. THe benefit is more exhaust flow/less exhaust manifold pressure nd less reversion. The offset is slightly more lag. But like i said, I had 25 psi at 3700 rpm or so. Harldy lag at all. 16g sized turbos will do about 3400 rpm for comparison.

Ok im going to go with the TDO6H 20G:)

Now on to 3 threads worth of which boost controller i should go with. I will start a new thread with this in it. Please post your opinions.

18g is known to be shyte on dSMs. For whatever reasons, the 16Gs usually do better.
dont mean to sound like a dick, but the reason the 16g does better is because the 18g is an over priced 16g with more lagg, but on the good side the 18g works better on honda's for some odd reason

alot of turbo's are capable

here's a link to show what some of these turbo's and with proper TUNING are capable of on a DSM

http://www.dsmtimes.org/

dont mean to sound like a dick, but the reason the 16g does better is because the 18g is an over priced 16g with more lagg, but on the good side the 18g works better on honda's for some odd reason

So if I read this right, there are no benfits to running it on a DSM, but its good on a honda, and this is the DSM forum... I dont think you sound like a dick, I'm just not sure I understand your post :)

Ok well the mitsubishi 20G is in my price range and the lag isnt bad as long as i can play catch up. if not NOs is ganna be the answer go get up to that boost RPM range. How does that sound to whoop the floor of that rb25det?

With my experiance with the 20g i really dont have to play catch up. I now run a 16g just to try it out. Planning on running the 20g again.

I agree, I dont think the 20g has enough lag to even make an arguement about it. Even the turbo I have now that spools at 4400 doesnt bother me. Because when it does spool up, it just runs down anything I am up against. And you never go below 5000 when racing anyway, unless you're a big pussy that shifts at 6k rpm or something :D

So if I read this right, there are no benfits to running it on a DSM, but its good on a honda, and this is the DSM forum... I dont think you sound like a dick, I'm just not sure I understand your post :)

just from other forum sites that i have been on, most of the people that use 18g's are honda's, from what i have seen they are no diffrent from a 16g but the little stuff. Most people say that they are a over priced 16g

Ok then with ur guys experience with turbos and my experience with turbos whats the better turbo? what should i go for?

20g is a great turbo. If you cant afford that get a 16g. They are both well worth the money the 20g will just give alittle more.

awsome tanx guys i appreciate this help a lot. ill see waht i can afford and ill post it up as soon as i get it. rb25 eat my dust!

Good luck