Turbo vs Supercharger

I'm investgating to get a new turbo or supercharger for my NA Tiburon and I wanted to be clear on some things. (Just to ease my mind)

1) What's the differance between a Turbo and Supercharger?
2) Which one gives a greater differance in horsepower
3) How is the gas mileage affected by installing either or?


Thanks for your help.

wow, you are lazy, first you don't do a search, and now the double post...

sheesh!

Man, what the hell is your problem? I just wanted to make SURE I got it on both boards so I make sure I got the majorities opinion AND make sure that it was on the right board incase it wasn't supposed to be on one.

And what does it matter if I put it on two boards?
Did you cry about it or something? j/k

dude I was just messing around.
post whatever the hell you want.
I don't care.
you are teh funny.

Sorry if I sound cranky, I just hate when people mix up lazyness with asking for assistance

tiburons are cool by the way.
new one or old one?

I have the 2003 model so the "new" one

V6?
6 speed?
I test drove one of those, just for fun.
It had surprisingly good getup.
same engine as in the SUV.
Warranty kicks ass too.
interior suck though.

no I have the 4 speed I-4 so I can tune it later, but I run just as well.

can't tune a v6 6 speed?

well you can, but because of the aluminium body, the most you can top the V-6 too is about 250 hp. The I-4 model, although is the weaker model off the showroom floor ironicly can be tuned through the roof. One has been known to be tuned over 600hp (In Korea) and in the US I've read of some that have around 300 ish HP.

So you can see why I got the I-4 lol

I think I would be satified with a little over 200hp when I'm done and since Hyundai will be building these parts, they should be covered under the warrenty,which makes it all the better :)

But don't count the I-4 out with the stock engine. It's a competitor, maybe not in the drag strip, but in the autocrosses or in the technical more manuverable courses ;)

you guys kinda got off topic hey ?

my oppionion . turbos are nice cause they are cheaper and add some high end but they take time to spool up , alot of them start kicking in at 2-3 k? superchargers are on right from the get go , they give good horsepower. and i would imagine the supercharger would be more expensive on the fuel card aswell right?

overall depending on how much money you want to spend though id try and get like a stage 4 or 5 turbo , they rip! ;)

stage 4 or 5?
who measures turbos in stages?
usually they are measured in trim size.

im not sure , maybe its a non technical term??

hmm, so on average, what have you found to be the normal prices for Turbos (ballpark numbers) for the stages for whatever.

Also I don't know if Hyundai will give the people that are covered under the warrenty a discount for the new aftermarket componets

well, for my car they are right around 3k to start. can go to 5k for a larger turbo/intercooler setup.

that's not that bad. And there is a chance that for the people covered by the warrenty, we might get a precentage off lol

I don't see what a warranty has to do with the price of an aftermarket turbocharger.
so no.

But the aftermarket parts at being sold and installed by Hyundai, and not all of there cars are covered by the warrenty

I dont see why hyundai would still let you keep your warenty after putting a turbo in ??

because, like I said before (at least I hope I did), Hyundai is selling and installing the turbo

I can't believe that Hyundai is installing turbo in their cars. :cwm27:

turbo, superchargers, lowering springs etc

toyota does the same thing under their TRD program (toyota racing department).
you can get a super charger or suspension from the dealership.
no waranty problems.
expensive, but you keep the warranty, so it's worth it.
my buddy was looking at getting a solara supercharged.

really? i always thought TRD is Toyota Racing Development??? i could be wrong

..in regards to the other stuff , its wierd though cause aftermarket parts are what cause the car to break down so it confuses me when you say they will still warenty it , there just asking to spend money on fixing your car arnt they ?

Actually I'm probably wrong about the D in TRD.
but it's a part made or liscenced by the company, and installed by their mechanics, so they are cool with it.

1) What's the differance between a Turbo and Supercharger?
2) Which one gives a greater differance in horsepower
3) How is the gas mileage affected by installing either or?

Difference between supercharger and a turbocharger.

Turbocharger uses spent exhause gas to spin an impeller blade, which is connected by a shaft to another impeller blade. The second blade compresses an fresh air charge and sends it to the intercooler via a tube. Th eintercooler cools this charge and then it is sent to the intake manifold to be combined with fuel.

A Supercharger is essentialy the same thing but it uses the engines power to drive it. Via a system of belts and pulleys, or a gear setup on some vehicles.

Which one gives a grater differance in power?

Well a supercharger is limited in the amount of power it can make. Unless you have a custom built blower unit. But a turbo is almost endless on what kind of power you can make. Also the turbo is much more efficent because it is using a waste product provided by the engine to make additional power. Where as the supercharger requires engine power to opperate.

Gas millage.

Well, they dont really differ greatly. If you stay out of the boost with a turbo car you may see better milage than if you drove a supercharged car. I say this because the superchager is constantly making boost which means you need to provide more fuel on an almost constant basis. And a turbo you can stay out of the boost and avoid this.


I would also sugest that you go back to Hyundia, because adding an aftermarket power adder like a turbo or supercharger will most likley void the warrantie because the engines cant suport the systems.

They mya install the part, and the part that was installed comes with a warrantee but engine internals will no longer be covered.

A warantee covers a products faults and flaws. If the component was not flawed then you will have top pay for the repairs.

there are no such stages of forced induction, unless you buy the product from one singe manufacturer.

ie. JWT, stage one turbo kit, stage two turbo kit, ...

This means that each turbo kit is a little more power. But unless the manufacturer of your turbo offeres more than one trim level for the kit then it is only a stage one, but is not refered to in that means.

You may also want to have your tranny beefed up. Cause the 4 speed auto is quite week and most likley will burn up with the additional power you want to add.

PS im suprised to see this thread go on for 2 pages without a single bit of useful information.

j/p

hyundai is not going to put a supercharger/turbo on one of their cars and not void the warranty. i don't see it happening. and how is a turbo more efficient than a supercharger?! a superchargers power is ALWAYS there with no spool or lag or anything. it's just like NA power. but turbo power takes time to build up. and on page 1 you said you'd be happy with 'a little over 200hp' yet the reason you didn't get the I6 was because the maximum power you could build on it was '250hp'? well uh, i'm not a mathemetician or some shit but I think '250' is a little over '200'. yeah just pointing out a few things.

god damn it i finally said something almost useful and it's in a dead thread.

hyundai advanced racing parts. h.a.r.d for short. and hyundai "is" doing it. the anounced that at the 2003 SEMI show in vegas.. man were were you?

PS. your racing a honda.. shut up.. ricer.

god damn it i finally said something almost useful and it's in a dead thread.

Don't worry. You didn't say anything useful. It was all wrong.

how is a turbo more efficient than a supercharger?! a superchargers power is ALWAYS there with no spool or lag or anything. it's just like NA power. but turbo power takes time to build up..

A turbo is more effcient than a sc b/c of how each gets their power. A sc requires power from the engine (ie belts and pulleys) in order to make power. Sure there is no lag in power but:

1. A supercharger can only produce as much power as the engine allows it to. Meaning that no matter what, the sc is going to plataeu(sp?) at a certain psi b/c the belts that drive it cannot move any faster.

2. The supercharger actually robs the engine of some of its power b/c the engine has turn the belts that much harder due to the sc. I think if I remember correctly the supercharger takes away 25-30% vs. a turbo which takes only 15-20% (due to the restriction in exhaust flow).

PS im suprised to see this thread go on for 2 pages without a single bit of useful information.

dido

oops,meant to write "diddo"...sigh, better get some sleep!

oh good. i thought my usefulness went unnoticed. thanks for clearing that up. and um...are you saying i race a honda and i'm a ricer? i have a stock '02 honda civic sedan and it's definately not a racecar. yeah. but i race a mustang. well..i'm going to race it as soon as i get the money for a vortech s-trim.

look everyone stop what the hell is going on?

You're all talking about efficiency when you haven't got a clue and haven't put up any percentages.
And for all to know turbocharging is - turbine power supercharging meaning it is a supercharger. Efficiency wise you measure efficiency by what you want over what you pay for.
Usually a car's engine is around 40% efficiency. Turbochargers and superchargers both increase fuel consumption in higher revs but on most applications they do not effect the fuel economy in the lower rev range.

Choosing between the two is a matter of choice. There are various different superchargers and you should probably consult a hyundai specialist on which one would be better for whatever purpose you are dreaming of.

look everyone stop what the hell is going on?

You're all talking about efficiency when you haven't got a clue and haven't put up any percentages.
And for all to know turbocharging is - turbine power supercharging meaning it is a supercharger. Efficiency wise you measure efficiency by what you want over what you pay for.


Wrong.

Turbocharger efficiency and supercharger efficiency is measured by the delta t (change in air temp). Turbos are more efficient than superchargers.

oops,meant to write "diddo"...sigh, better get some sleep!

I think you mean ditto.

from what i know turbos are more efficent than super chargers. super chargers have a hot intake charge turbos usually have intercoolers. and because they run off exhuast gases they are even more efficent becuase they use energy that is other wise wasted on just being dmped out the rear pipes. super chargers low end drag racing turbos more for autocrossing. this is my opinion. either way they both make a shit load of power.

Not all turbos take time to build power. Put like a t25 on the 2.0 and it will spool fast. You will lack in the high end. The main question you have to ask yourself is where you want to make power. Turbos work great for drag racing if sized proplerly. Centrifugal superchargers will make high end power. Turbos are only efficient at certian engine speeds depending on size. Small turbos are efficient at low engine speeds. Great low end torque. Large turbos are efficient at high engine speeds. They make great high end power. Superchargers can have intercoolers too. They both create heat because compressing air creates heat. Turbos are pretty much infinitely upgradable while a supercharger can only be upgraded to a point. The best part is turbos sound cooler.

the reason a turbo usually gets hotter boost is because the turbo is driven by exaust, which is really hot. this heats up the turbo, which heats the boost, already adding to what nissanfanatic said about compressed air. thus, adding a cooler boost via intercooler is a good idea.
I love my turbo, so i recomend that you get one over a supercharger. but it really depends on what end you want your power to be, but it is adjustable with size. hence the twin turbo, a smaller turbo backed by a larger one. the smaller turbos turbine has less inerta than a larger one so it provides power at a low end. this in-turn helps spool up the larger turbo, which provides boost to the high end.
so to answer your question, better gas milage, more efficent, more power avalibilty, and a cool sound? GET A TURBO.

well superchargers have no lag, so they would be better for autocross IMO, but turbo's can have more power...

super's u will lose alot of gas with them since they are working all the time, turbo not really at all... since they dont kick in in low speed areas (like driving around town).

also i hear superchargers are easier to install... but yes more pricy...
turbo is good for top numbers...

but like i said, i think if ur goal isn't all out power, and u dont care about losing to much money... supercharger is where i think u want to go....

the supercharger will lose power cus its pully driven (plz dear god dont get a Centrifugal Supercharger, if ur planning on that, turbo is definately a better option.

roots blowers are good :) but run pretty hot.

is that a mustang with wings and fangs or should we just call it a "RICESTANG"

If I may I'd like to clear up some statements made hear that are some true, some false and others old wives tales. I have been personally been involved in supercharging and nitrous for many years, before some of your parents were born. I have a degree in metallurgy and aero. engineering. I have or have had a few world records on the Salt flats. Made a few record passes at different 1/4 tracks, and at present have the 3rd recorded fastest street 300Z and in the top 10 last year in the Pro Import class. With that lets get to the subject matter. And please no pissing contest. Lets deal with facts and not personal tastes.

Both turbo's and root or screw compressors are superchargers, the difference being one is exhaust driven and the other engine driven. From this point on both well be refered to as superchargers. Both have been around longer than me. Both have good points and weak points, but both do one thing, stuff more air into the engine, whereas increasing the compression ratio and increasing the VE (volumemetric effinicy) of the engine. In the begining both were very crude but engineers spent more time on development of the turbo's than the root's so the turbo's become more advanced than the root's.
A few years after the computers came out all that started to change. You as the comsumers demanded better cars with more efficient engines so the engineers were back at the drawing boards working on new designs and the screw type supercharger was born. Today we have turbo's with new designed compressor blades beyond anything ever dreamed of a few years ago. Screw type compressors that weren't even born yet, and engines begging to have one installed on them.
Some things you need to do before installing one is to do some research and deside which one best fits your needs. One thing to look for is the Delta Temp. of the unit and its installation. I'm not going to list everything here for space reasons, but well list a few good and bad points.
Turbo's run extreamly hot, whereas screwtype's don't.

http://www.chimera.co.nz/300zx/

Turbo's use less engine power than engine driven superchargers.
screwtype superchargers don't have turbo lag.
Engine driven superchargers are easer to install than turbo's.
Now this is just a small list and I'm sure you all can add more to it, but we need to move on.

Without getting into cams, porting, exhaust systems, nitrous and the likes, compression is one of the most important things in making power in your engine. A 16:1 compression ratio is just about the limits we have for the fuels we have today. With the computers we have now this is easy to do on a street car.
Why is this compression so important, well it's the amount of compression placed on the fuel/air mixture at top dead center, and the amount of force placed on the piston pushing it down making power.
Now were giong to take 3 engines and the only difference is compression ratio.
engine #1 16:1
engine #2 10:1 with 10# boost
engine #3 8:1 with 16# boost
What is the different of these 3 engines flywheel HP? None. There all running about 16:1 compression ratio and have aprox. the same HP

http://www.goodvibesracing.com/Compression%20Ratio.htm

Now most high performance cars have 8:1 pistons and turbo's with 8-10# boost so in reality the engine is a 12.5:1 engine, and everyone trys to get rid of the turbo lag. Sorry, no such thing turbo lag.
A 8:1 CR engine just don't have any power at low RPM till the turbo puts enough air into the engine to raise the CR to 12.5:1, then power is there.
The screwtype supercharge being a postive displacement compressor keeps the 8:1 CR engine at 12.5:1 all the time and don't have the so called turbo lag. Thats why people say screwtype superchargers don't have turbo lag.

Now if you really want to have fun, but I warn you be careful and go in small steps, play with more boost and your timing with some fuel that can handle a CR of 25:1. To do this you'll need to have a engine strong enough to handle it, but you can make somewhere in the area of 1000HP per liter.

http://performanceolds307.tripod.com/id9.html

If you think I'm full of shit, lets talk about it and make me prove it, but please before you beat me go to the sites and read them.

Albert

the reason a turbo usually gets hotter boost is because the turbo is driven by exaust, which is really hot. this heats up the turbo, which heats the boost, already adding to what nissanfanatic said about compressed air.

Geez.

Turbos heat up the compressed air less than a supercharger.

Once again, efficiency is defined as the delta t (temp) between the inlet and the outlet of the compressor. Turbos are more efficient.

For those who actually want to learn something about this subject, read Mike Kojima's "Suck, Squish, Bang, Blow" series of articles in Sport Compact Car (back when that magazine actually had high quality tech articles).

Both have good points and weak points, but both do one thing, stuff more air into the engine, whereas increasing the compression ratio and increasing the VE (volumemetric effinicy) of the engine.

Turbos and superchargers DO NOT do anything to the compression ratio of an engine. Compression ratio is a static measure regardless of VE. Internal cylinder pressures are changed with changes in VE but compression ratio always remains constant.

And for those who may want to talk about dynamic compression ratio, this does not exist either. What we're really talking about is changes in VE.


Turbo's run extreamly hot, whereas screwtype's don't.

I guess that depends upon what you define as hot. The housing may run hot on a turbo, but, properly sized, a turbo is more efficient than any supercharger, and by definition, the delta t is lower with a turbo.

Zgringo-I'd love to see back to back dyno pulls of a non-intercooled screwtype blower. 2nd pull is going to be way down on power. Those things get VERY hot. Intercool or water/alcohol inject them, and it's a different story.

Also....my engine has 8.2:1 compression, and makes PLENTY of low end power. It's going to make more once the blower is on *evil grin*

How can a supercharger have turbo lag? :p

well superchargers have no lag, so they would be better for autocross IMO, but turbo's can have more power...

super's u will lose alot of gas with them since they are working all the time, turbo not really at all... since they dont kick in in low speed areas (like driving around town).

also i hear superchargers are easier to install... but yes more pricy...
turbo is good for top numbers...

but like i said, i think if ur goal isn't all out power, and u dont care about losing to much money... supercharger is where i think u want to go....

the supercharger will lose power cus its pully driven (plz dear god dont get a Centrifugal Supercharger, if ur planning on that, turbo is definately a better option.

roots blowers are good :) but run pretty hot.

Centrifugal superchargers are not always making a drastic amount of boost. It's not going to waste gas (unless you're a lead foot or have a really wild combo). Why are superchargers bad for auto cross? Do you auto cross? Have you ever? The only time I'm at idle is at the start. Other than that, my motor is revving above idle. Properly set up combos will NOT be turds for their specific application, or any aplication. Properly sized turbo(s) for your application can make power from idle to redline, no lag time. I think you need to stop thinking of dyno-queen Supras when you hear the term "turbo." I've yet to see a supercharged vehicle make more power NA than it did boosted. Yes, it does take power to turn the S/C but it responds by making MORE power.