What is the ultimate drift car?

Please Pick One

1950 Hudson Hornet as tuned by "The Best Damn Garage in Town".

mr. yunick was into drifting?

Well, I meant it as half joking, but when you watch the way those big Hudsons careen around the old Daytona beach course then it kind of makes sense.

Quick trivia: On the Hudsons, how did Smokey Yunick deal with the NASCAR rule outlawing engine setback that said "You cannot move the engine from the factory frame mounts"?

1972 Datsun 240z...

Like mine... :icon16:

http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/12/web/288000-288999/288884_17_full.jpg

Datsun 240Z with s20SX engine and tranny(i have one but its in pieces) or a 1989 Porsche 944 Turbo(have one too) The 240Z can out drift most anything.:)

any car with a good driver can outdrift anything...

i think the ae86 has a larger cult following, and is a better "starter" car for drifting, and has been proven in most major drift events going against cars like rx7s and silvias...

i would say the Sprinter Trueno.

the AE86, bcuz it took out the RX-7s, Silvias, and the sky...so..yea

any car with a good driver can outdrift anything...



unless the car has an ff drivetrain

no one can defeat a supra

911 Gt3

no see what i ment was that no "one" could defeat a surpa
say like if you put your mom and a supra next to each other the supra wins automatically

the AE86, bcuz it took out the RX-7s, Silvias, and the sky...so..yea Initial D? Thats way too fake, with all my heart i dont think a Hachi-Roku could beat an R-32 GTR, plus the best drift car is the Corolla GT-s (Trueno) because when you start of drifting you have a big chance of smashing into somthing, even a curb will defeat your axle, so start of with a cheap but reliable car like the Sprinter, because if you crash that car it wont be a heart breaker, but a 240Sx with an SR20DET or a RB20DET would be another story!

I don't think he's talking about Initial D, it happened in the US D1 with katsuhiro's revolver 86 where he took out (like silver said) RX-7's, Silvias, and a Skyline (AWD one by the way).

And oh yeah Fuzzy, why the hell would you ever say nothing could out drift a supra where supra's are so dam heavy that they can really get their ass out there!? A supra entered in the US D1 and got it's f.uckin ass kicked!

funny, but the last drift event at irwindale was won by, a supra. rhys millen won that. hmm... anything else you have to spout about?

http://overboost.com/story.asp?id=1146

www.rmrproducts.com

yep. supras suck at drifting.

b/c nomura's big ass 4 door r34 is the lightest thing on the track. or the red toyota chaser? yep. light weight cars.

S15 SpecR

I'm surprised their aren't any European cars on the list. BMW always makes a point of having nearly 50/50 weight distribution on their cars.

I'm surprised their aren't any European cars on the list. BMW always makes a point of having nearly 50/50 weight distribution on their cars.


Yeah, but you don't want a 50/50 distribution on your car if your drifting. You want a slight weight bias to either the front or rear to help break traction to slide.

Keiichi Tsuchiya aka Drift King said that in one of the BMI videos, makes sense if you think about it.

I think it depends on the driver, not the car.

You are most certainly correct, you can't really choose an ultimate drift car because there are so many out there.

I'm surprised their aren't any European cars on the list. BMW always makes a point of having nearly 50/50 weight distribution on their cars.

Ive tried drifting my BMW 530i. A few things get in my way.

1) Automatic tranny(you dont want a Manual on anything above a 3series)
2) Its my dads car, and I cannot afford to pay for any damage
3)Electronic aids get in the way


With that said, I know someone with an E36 3-series, and despite the 50/50 balance, this thing oversteers like mad. Im sure with a less than new set of tires, you could keep with with any car at a drift event, because the I6 motors are chock full of torque at any rpm.

However, I can tell you, the advantage of 50/50 weight distribution is that you can take highway onramps at 80mph without sqeauling the tires :)

I vote for the Supra.

Flywsi were you making fun of the Toyota chaser or on its side i didnt get it because it is actually lighter than a toyota Supra MK4. If the supra used an aluminum block and was made lighter, it would kick ass, and if it had 50/50 weight. Because of the 4 wheel indapendand suspention which most S13s lack in not S14s or S15s those cars are just plain mean. Also FCs lack in them not FDs, AE86s lakc in them. But all of those are great cars despite that (im not trying to make fun of anyone.) To me the best drift car is a Mazda Miata. It is just as light as an AE86 and it has a 4 wheel indapendant suspention. It also has close to 50/50 weight, adn you can tune the engine throught Toda racing. Another car that is sweet but a little out of reach with price would be a Honda S2000. Thanks guys!

Oh yeah, i forgot to say this. Um well see a car like a maxda miata or AE86 with a very skilled driver would walk away from any skyline GTS or GTR or a supra or any of the larger cars. I have a movie of an AE86 walking away from a skyline. Not that i think the AE86 had a TRD 20V or maby just a tuned 20V (which are just as fast or faster through toda parts) but in the end a Miata would probably walk away from an AE86 becuase of the 4 wheel indapendant suspention in such a light car. It also has superior engine power. Thanks guys!

Try again on that Miata theory.

First and foremost, the Miata roadster is saddled with a pretty heavy unibody. It took a lot of steel to make that thing stiff without a roof.

Second. Miatas are notorious for having wide spaced gear ratios. Blame the Ford parentage for that one. It wasn't until the 10th Anniversary Special that they got a good six speed.

Third. Miatas have tiny little Dunlops and roll over a ton under hard cornering. True, the AE86 isn't too much better, but its roll center is a lot lower. Plus the coil springs on the AE86 are stiff as a board. The rear axle is well tamped so there isn't any wheel hop under acceleration or excessive roll.

Oh, and by the way, both the FC and the S13 are Independant at all corners. It's not a new thing. Corvettes have been all independant since 1963.

The Miata is a little fun bucket that has good potential for cornering, but was built for nancy boys, old fogeys, and bimbos who wanted classic sports cars but couldn't live with a car that needed *gasp* MAINTENANCE and ATTENTION. Mazda engineers tore down Lotus Elans, MGB's, Austin-Healey Sprites, and other such immortal classics to try and find out what the appeal was. They tuned the exhaust so that it would have the same note under acceleration. They tried to give it the same tail out handling. They tried everything to match the Miata on paper, in schematic to the classics.

But they still didn't build a classic sports car because the Miata has no CHARACTER. It's soul-less and staid. A carbon copy. An imitation. It's the buttoned down vanilla version of true greatness. Created for mass consumption and mass disposal. You don't hear Miata owners with wild tales about rushing through backwoods roads at 1:00am, cracking jokes about goofy electrical glitches and how long it takes to put up the top. There's no romanticized image of a jaunty gentleman with his stringback gloves and silken scarf, motoring around Alpine roads with no destination in mind. No, the Miata was made so that sports car owners wouldn't be "saddled with the usual burdens" of sports car ownership. It was built so that sports cars could also be practical and useful.

In short, Mazda totally missed the point of a sports car. Sports cars are meant to be irresponsible and reckless. They're meant to be driven by people who love them and people who know them. A sports car owner is someone who grins and turns on the radio to his favorite station while he synchronizes his dual SU carburetors and changes his points, quietly humming along to a song he hears and remembers from days gone by. It's probably a song that means something to him, maybe a memory about a friend or a girl or an experience. He'll shake his head and close the hood and jump in, and then just drive off. He's not going anywhere. Just motoring. Maybe the car'll overheat, or maybe it'll shed a knockoff. Probably it'll run just fine. But he doesn't worry too much either way because he doesn't have to be anywhere. If it breaks, he'll fix it. If it doesn't, he'll drive some more. He's got a family sedan to get him to work, and to get his kids to school, and for his wife to get the groceries in. The sports car isn't for any of that.

In short, a sports car isn't about the destination. It's about the journey.

You sound like you think we dont enjoy what you enjoy, or that we dont know shit. Well you didnt see this one coming. Do you even know the point of a 4 wheel indapendant suspention? It is to keep all the wheels ont he ground. That means that the car is lighter through the corner. That means that when you go through a corner the weight transfers to the outside side, and with a 4 wheel indapendant, it lets it transfer the weight but not all of it, while keeping all 4 wheels on the ground. Second of all, you are talking about a stock miata. Have you ever seen the racing ones where it has the hugest tires on it. it isnt difficult to put wider wheels on it for wider tires. You just have to put fat fenders on it. Second of all, dont even tell me about mountain driving. I went to fucking Japan and rode up to Soni Cogan, that was the most beautiful and sweet twisting road. and tell me another car that is a drift car (FR) that has 4 wheel indapendant suspention that is as light as the Miata and is around the price. I am talking about a used B6 powered one (1.6L) and. Ok now what do you drive if I may ask? (not to be an ass)

You sound like you think we dont enjoy what you enjoy, or that we dont know shit. Well you didnt see this one coming. Do you even know the point of a 4 wheel indapendant suspention? It is to keep all the wheels ont he ground. That means that the car is lighter through the corner. That means that when you go through a corner the weight transfers to the outside side, and with a 4 wheel indapendant, it lets it transfer the weight but not all of it, while keeping all 4 wheels on the ground. Second of all, you are talking about a stock miata. Have you ever seen the racing ones where it has the hugest tires on it. it isnt difficult to put wider wheels on it for wider tires. You just have to put fat fenders on it. Second of all, dont even tell me about mountain driving. I went to fucking Japan and rode up to Soni Cogan, that was the most beautiful and sweet twisting road. and tell me another car that is a drift car (FR) that has 4 wheel indapendant suspention that is as light as the Miata and is around the price. I am talking about a used B6 powered one (1.6L) and. Ok now what do you drive if I may ask? (not to be an ass)


STFU dude, you dont even drive. You couldnt get shit out of the experience.

Layla's Keeper, as much as I disagree with him, knows shitloads more than any of us, and has the experience to back it up.

Come back when you have something intelligent to say.


Oh, Laylas Keeper-the target market is for people like my dad who used to drive these cars(My dad tooled around in an E-Type for a while) but are too busy/dont have the means to repair them every weekend.

That said, Id only take a Miata in British Racing Green, tan interior, and a turbo'd 1.8L engine with some Volk TE37s in Bronze, and AutoExe goodies :)

I see, you dont have anything inteligent to say? That isnt an answer, you havent answered any of my questions :nono:

Okay, an FR chassis car that is as light as a Miata, or lighter for about the same cost.

Triumph Spitfire. Lotus Seven. AC Ace (though the Aceca's are starting to get up there in value). I can go on, but it'd just embarass you.

And, you're dead wrong on the point of an independent suspension. An independent suspension is designed to maintain a certain amount of CAMBER throughout the suspension's arc of travel.

In a solid axle design, when the axle begins to tilt, the outside wheel is gaining positive camber while the inside wheel is gaining negative camber. Thus losing grip. An independent suspension allows for more body roll without change in camber and thus no reduction in grip. Take a looks at F1 and Indy cars from the 1960's when independent suspensions were just making their debut. The monocoque of the chassis would move around an incredible amount while the wheels stayed on a single plain, gripping the track. This is the key difference between suspension traction and tire traction. In a solid axle design, the car reaches its roll limit much sooner and breaks traction sooner, while the independant suspension car can have a higher roll limit.

This is also why the Mini Cooper could outrun 289 Ford Falcons in saloon racing back in the 60's.

However, when you up the grip of the tires and reduce the center of gravity, you can use the lighter and sturdier solid axle design to its fullest. With plenty of available grip and a rigid suspension that doesn't allow for roll, a solid axle is a better option. In this case, look no further than asphalt sprint cars or the SCCA Trans-Am class of road racing.

I've been around racing practically since I was born, and have had a hand in the design of the fastest pair of supermodifieds in all of Ohio. I know chassis setup and I know suspensions. Don't try to convince me about IFS or IRS superiority. IFS and IRS only work better under certain conditions and good engineering can overcome those conditions.

Triumph Spitfire. Lotus Seven. AC Ace (though the Aceca's are starting to get up there in value). I can go on, but it'd just embarass you.




Don't forget...

Datsun S30 240z
Triumph TR6
Mitsubishi Starion
Porsche 914
Mazda SA22C Rx-7 < Not IRS but does handle extremely well.

Yes but is it just me or are you talking about the lift of theory? Thats for 4WD. Yes 4 wheel indapendant suspention is paralel steering like the "famous" london taxis. But on a mountain pass, it allows you to make a high speed cleaner drift. Drifting is rarely the fastest way around a corner, but on a short mountain pass or timed event, not an endurance it can be necesarry for some corners. And next you guys are talking about cars with 2 valves per cylinder. Better yet than the triumph TR6 the GT6 its a hardtop. But those cars make like 70HP especially the 70's ones because of the smog, and all the new requirements. Im not sure if it is 4 wheel indapendantsuspensioin but it is a kick ass car of then but not in the price range would be a Lotus Elan S2 and S4.

Oh yeah I have a question, do you guys know if the Toyota 1G-FE is alluminum block. Its the straight six that you would get in an Altezza AS200. Because the RS200 uses a 3SG and I know that is iron block. And also where I might be able to get some performance parts for the AS200? Thanks

ooooh yeah also you mentions Mitsubishi Starion, well my friend has one and it weighs more than my supra, Starion weighs in at the low 3000 ILBs

914 is MR? I am talking about an FR car

just for banning sake when I say that, I am not like trying to offend you just saying. K? :biggrin:

Again, you prove your ignorance.

The Triumph Spitfire was powered by a little 1100cc OHV engine that made 63bhp before smog. The GT6 (which, by the way, was produced from 1968 to 1973, before smog choked these cars) had a 104bhp straight six, the same engine as the TR6.

As always, bolt-on tuning and head work could boost these figures reliably by up to 50% without going to forced induction.

The Lotus Elans (save for the most recent generation, an FF version powered by an Isuzu four) were all wheel independent and used quite a sophisticated multilink setup to boot. You'd be surprised at how reasonable the price is on a Lotus Elan, or for that matter the Europa. Elans can be had for around 15K for a well restored example, to 8K for a runner. The Europa is a bit more sketchy, because they're very year and option dependent. All cars being well-restored examples, a base car with the steel wheels, no decal package, and the 1470cc OHV Renault engine is usually a 9K-12K car. A top of the line newer model with the Lotus alloys, John Player Special decal package (especially if the car is finished in black), and the "Big Valve" Lotus Twin Cam engine is usually a 15K-20K car.

http://www.lotuseuropa.org/images/Pictures/JohnWhite/Europa2.jpg

I should know. Here in Parma there's a very dedicated Europa owner. That's not his car, though.

And, why, might I ask, is it so important to have more than two valves per cylinder? Why, might I ask, are you so het up about EFI, DOHC, and ECM's? Why is it you want to adorn your car with all sorts of unneccessary bits of kitsch? Take a look at SCCA GT5. The dominant cars, up against all sorts of new Nissan 200SX's, and Toyota Teercelss, are old Austin Healey Sprites and MG Midgets. Old pushrod engines in straight axle roadster chassis running 15inch knock-off Minilite wheels shod with bias-ply Dunlops.

Get over yourself. The classics, so long as someone with knowledge and maturity are tuning them, can usually be made faster than most modern cars.

I should know, I've got a 170hp MGB GT that absolutely devours Civic SI's in the straights and in the corners, and I haven't even swapped to fluid shocks yet.

ooooh yeah also you mentions Mitsubishi Starion, well my friend has one and it weighs more than my supra, Starion weighs in at the low 3000 ILBs


The Starion is also significantly more powerful and has low end grunt than a Supra, thereby cancelling out the weight difference.

Whoever posts a Lotus Europa in a drifting thread is a FUCKING GOD!

Yeah, I voted for the Evo, but that's cheating. The lotus elise is the greatest drift car that I know of (THANKS GT3). I got to see one go through it's paces at SIR, while riding in a Super Seven. I don't know which car I'd rather have, since the elise is truly a neat car.

Hell, I'll probably just buy an Elite (Mk2). As ugly as they are I hear they drive great.

Layla's Keeper is a god (little 'g', little 'g!'). Although, I'd put a 4-AG in my MGB GT. I took a GT apart for a day once, they are really cool cars.

Yes, the drift kings may drift their new machinery, because they deserve it (better). Us underlings should be happy with a Datsun B210. Really, start small guys. Chicks dig inner strength (sleepers).

I have a BMW Bavaria that is waiting for me to get my priorities straight. That car is serious. Bavarias are a man's machine. I drive my 2002 because I'm still only a lad, and I know what I deserve (less). You want lift-off oversteer? Try a 2002. 320i's are worse still.

Be nice Layla's Keeper. 86's are just an Alfa that doesn't rust and doesn't look so hot. Oh yeah, and no aluminum diff housing or cool triangular locating link... Miata? Same thing almost. You could own a "miada." Just hook up a can of olive oil with a small hole in it by the front crossmember. It'll be just like old times. Oh yeah, don't forget to mount the muffler with chicken wire and replace the electric pop-up headlamps with a vacum actuated system. We'll be "motoring" in no time. Your Diety title shall be "Layla Princess of Darkness."

Never said I like EFI, I realy like carbs and mechanical fuel injection, but EFI is ok if you have ITBs. But a four banger or a straight six with some mikuni side draft carbs is fine with me anyday. But I must admit, I have been looking at some stuff. My idea of a drift car changes pretty much everyday. I am currently looking at a 2AZ-FE a 2.4L aluminum block I4 by toyota. You may find it in the current camrys. Dont laugh, I would like to drop one into a 1985 Toyota Celica Supra, like mine, but RHD. I have emailed some header maker guy that makes headers, I have also emailed Jun about making some cams, crankshaft, heads, valves, valve springs, pistons, and rods. I know sounds a bit far fetched but I bet it could pull off some serious N/A power along with either ITBs or liek 4 motorcycle race carbs. The Motorcycle race carbs would be cool, because it would be like a tommy kaira then. Well kinda. The motorcycle carbs would make it sound cool especialy with some hot cams. Thanks Guys!

Never said I like EFI, I realy like carbs and mechanical fuel injection, but EFI is ok if you have ITBs. But a four banger or a straight six with some mikuni side draft carbs is fine with me anyday. But I must admit, I have been looking at some stuff. My idea of a drift car changes pretty much everyday. I am currently looking at a 2AZ-FE a 2.4L aluminum block I4 by toyota. You may find it in the current camrys. Dont laugh, I would like to drop one into a 1985 Toyota Celica Supra, like mine, but RHD. I have emailed some header maker guy that makes headers, I have also emailed Jun about making some cams, crankshaft, heads, valves, valve springs, pistons, and rods. I know sounds a bit far fetched but I bet it could pull off some serious N/A power along with either ITBs or liek 4 motorcycle race carbs. The Motorcycle race carbs would be cool, because it would be like a tommy kaira then. Well kinda. The motorcycle carbs would make it sound cool especialy with some hot cams. Thanks Guys!

Why not use a Tundra engine. At Least thats made for RWD

I dont really like V style engines.

Has anyone else though about putting a motorcycle muffer on their car, like a yoshimura? I though one would sound cool on my MKII Supra, if I could fit it. Or is this just stupid? :screwy:

Oh yeah, do you guys have any ideas of what I could do with the extra space under the hood with that 2AZ-FE in my supra? Becaue the 5MGE thats in it (2.8L I6) leaves alought of extra space. So what could I put up there to take up the space and improve the performance besides turbos or a supercharger (I want to go N/A). Thanks Guys!

Has anyone else though about putting a motorcycle muffer on their car, like a yoshimura? I though one would sound cool on my MKII Supra, if I could fit it. Or is this just stupid? :screwy:

Ive seen AE86s with bike mufflers on them. I guess just a muffler may work.

Well Bunta, can I spoil you day by pointing out I'm a guy? :grinno: A bit of a fop, as Redneck383 can point out. But still male.

Layla is my MGB GT's nickname, given to her after I electrocuted myself trying to fix her turn signals. It just so happened that the song Layla by Derek & the Dominos was playing on the radio at the time. The name just kind of stuck.

Yeah, I figured you were some old guy that wanted to say that he was the fourth guy in that Clapton/Harrison love triangle. I just said princess because there's already a prince sooo...

I kid I kid. But I knew you were a guy. I would be a lot more excited than this if I thought a girl was posting Tazio and Lotus stuff. ROFF!!! That would be

HOTT!!!

I think our friend MkIISupra has some genuine grey matter, but it doesn't come out in type too well. He's on the right track but he's facing the wrong direction, or something.

Oh yeah, do you guys have any ideas of what I could do with the extra space under the hood with that 2AZ-FE in my supra? Becaue the 5MGE thats in it (2.8L I6) leaves alought of extra space. So what could I put up there to take up the space and improve the performance besides turbos or a supercharger (I want to go N/A). Thanks Guys!

How about nice fresh cool air? It doesn't weigh anything and it makes your car run better.

Or, if you're actually going to do all this like you say, you could double up your front shock tower sheet metal and make it swell into the engine bay for a cleaner look. If you don't understand what I'm saying, google a company called Jaymic (UK) and look at their customized engine bays on BMW 2002's. Stiffens the unibody and looks hotrod. I don't think the celica supras have Mac struts, do they? I don't think so.

What about the original Celicas? Why don't you just get one of those? They look like miniature Dodge Challengers. Put in a 4-ag with throttle bodies and call it good.

Ha Ha, I would love to see a "Mako" on this board. LOL!

Well actually the Celcia Supra is Just a Celica GT-S with a differant nose and a EFI 6 not a carbed 4. LOL.The brake rotors and everything are the same. Maby the Supra has some chassis mods to take the heavier weight.

By the way you just gave me a great idea, how about 2 of the celica GT-S carbs on my curent supra (5MGE not 2AZ-FE). I would post pics of my car but I dont have a webpage for them. If you want pics IM me I already have them just cant put em up.

For me #1 (http://12.224.118.250:8884/files/datsun/Daruis-Video/DARIUS-1.MPG)
and #2 (http://12.224.118.250:8884/files/datsun/Daruis-Video/CrazyAssSupra.mpeg) :2cents:

No no. It's a straight six. You need THREE sidedraft carburetors. There has got to be a manifold out there for triple side drafts on your motor.

I was talking about the first generation Celicas. I think from '74. Coronas are cool too, and the seventies corollas.

Yeah, I figured you were some old guy that wanted to say that he was the fourth guy in that Clapton/Harrison love triangle. I just said princess because there's already a prince sooo...

I kid I kid. But I knew you were a guy. I would be a lot more excited than this if I thought a girl was posting Tazio and Lotus stuff. ROFF!!! That would be

HOTT!!!


Old guy? I'm 19. That's not that old. I mean. I'm arthritic, half-deaf, and methanol fumes have corroded my sinuses to the point where I have only 20% of my sense of smell, but I'm not old.

But I'll agree with you. If I ever met a girl who could spot the difference between an Austin-Healey Sprite MkII and an MG Midget from twenty paces, and was a cutie, I'd be all like :boink: :boink: :boink: :boink: :boink: :boink: :boink: :boink:

And then I'd be tired.

And yeah, triple Solex/Mikuni/Weber DCOE's (probably 45mm) are the solution. They're always the solution.

I know a machine shoppest, you think he could like make an adapter? I what do i do about linking the carbs? and the fuel lines? and the engine wouldent start without the ECU? But it would be worth a try. I could hook up like some holy 4 barrel, or would that be too rich for my 2.8?

carguyinok Nice datsun, I have seen it before. Supercharged 350 right? Your movies are on Kazaa. he he

There are 2 of them here, would 3 be good on my car http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2451757109&category=33550
My 5MGEs intake manifold is like a datsuns. It is like this 0-0--0-0--0-0. heres a pic of one http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2450080557&category=36474 now back to those mikunis, would 3 of those be too rich, to lean, or just perfect.

by the way i also found webers.

carguyinok Nice datsun, I have seen it before. Supercharged 350 right? Your movies are on Kazaa. he he I am working on the clone of that car. With a few less pounds :naughty: I just use that for a good kick in the butt when I feel swamped on my project :p
This is the clip with motor shots & other road shots (http://12.224.118.250:8884/files/datsun/Daruis-Video/DARIUS-2.MPG)
The car in the clips is or was made & owned by a guy named Darius.

Oh cool, what do you think of the carb idea, as i said would it be to lean or to rich this way. Or will it just be fine? Also isnt my engine ECU hooked up to my ignition thus sont I not get a spark?

Lean or rich is more about jetting and balance. I have had to deal with multi carb cars for what feel like forever. I have always had a true love for the Z & there twin carb stock on the 240's. But most people went or go the road your talking. @ the same time I dont want to highjack this thread. http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/data/530/1098032-016s-med.jpg

Bet some of you guys read The Last open road, and the other 2. Those are damn good books!

since this is about drift cars...
and i know that mustangs were brought up, and shot down for having solid axles, not IRS, it's funny to me, simply b/c i'm watcing a vid for the buildup of an ae86, and it's got a *gasp* live axle...
hmm... there goes that one...