BMW M3 -OR- Audi S4

I am in a bit of a toss up between these two beasts.

--2003--
BMW M3 or Audi S4

I have read reviews concerning their speed, but not much on their handling. I know audi offers superior traction control and with their quattro system, the s4 is extremely Safe in any weather condition. I am wondering if the M3 has any type of systems to match the S4 and how they compare. Any advice between these two cars is well appreciated!

:smile:

The S4’s not going to get your heart racing like an M3 will. An S4 will be quicker and safer in the wet but the M3 is more fun to drive in all weather conditions and has the edge in terms of handling, by some margin too. It will also be as easy to drive to the supermarket as a tame 316i. IMO the M3 is also the looker of the two. If you want safe, elegant, effortless speed, go for the S4. If you consider yourself a car nut, it has to be the M3 for its explosive pace and thrills.

M3. No other car on the road offers you the same amount of feedback as this car. Feels like you are directly connected to the road. After driving a few M3's, my initial impressions are that the car is so completely different in feel than any other car that its a little overwhelming just how much feedback the car gives you. No other car feels the same. I've driven cars that were faster, or had similar performance numbers, but when it all comes down to it, they're just numbers. You really have to get in and drive a car before deciding if you like it or not.

Both are so nice,
S4 looks much better to me, but you gotta go for the M3 since it's a real performance car.

How about an RS4, now we're talking:iceslolan

RS4 has good power but is even softer and more underwhelming than the S4

rs4 :biggrin2: my friend has a modded rs4 (the friend with the moded turbo :wink: )
he´s hunting his turbo with it... :p



ok but we´re talking about s4 or m3

if you want a save sporty luxury very powerfull save car go for the s4
if you have style, want to ride a very sporty luxury very powerfull car go for the m3.

the m3 is a driving machine it makes so much fun to ride it around corners when the back comes to your side mirror.:bigthumb:

Okay, i am thinking the M3... However does anybody know what kind of anti-slip or stability features the M3 has. Also, i have heard about a launch feature, whats that about? Thanks for the help guys!

:worshippy


:D

i don´t know how all these stability programs are called in america


the m3 has a 100% limitied slip differential (of couse nor in corners :D:D)
he has DSC(ESP)
and LC= launch control. (i cnanot exactly explain you how this works. but the warrenty of the clutch expires if you use it more than 10 times or so says bmw.

i think for the lc you have to switsch the DSC off press lc button, kick down, now engine speed levels off at around 4000 rpm and if you let go the lc button you start like an f1 car :smile: :iceslolan

WoW!!!

That would be very nice to have if you are at a random stoplight and feel the need, lol. Interesting features, do you by any chance know a site that would explain more about the features of the M3 (US version).
Thanks!


:sunglasse

Saw this thread and felt compelled to add some balance. (Long)

I have wanted an M3 ever since the latest model came out, but have never been able to afford one until now. But here in the UK the S4 has been getting some rave reviews so I thought I had better try both cars before shelling out circa $66,000 on an M3.

I tested the S4 first. The first thing that struck me was the build quality. It simply oozes quality. The way the doors "clunk" shut, the interior materials, the switches etc. Its first class. Then I start up the engine. What a fantastic piece of engineering that is. At any speed from idle to 7,200 rpm it sounds completely awesome. Keeping it brief, the driving experience is just unbelievable. The torque from that 4.2 V8 is absolutely incredible; it pulls like a steam train up a steep hill in 5th at 30mph, yet its equally happy revving away at 6 ~ 7,000. The cornering on this car has to be experienced to be believed. I am not a car reviewer, so words fail me, but I defy *anyone* to drive this car and not love it.

Then onto the BMW. I was sure the beemer would be better. Yes the M3 is a looker alright, and with the 19" polished rims and red leather, this one was just *beautiful*. But right from opening the door, I could tell the M3 just wasn't that "special". I have owned 3 beemers before (a 318is, a 328 coupe and most recently a 540). The M3 was just more of the same. The doors are solid enough, but nothing like the Audi. Likewise, the inside - its just OK. Really nothing to write home about. The engine sounds OK enough too. But it really doesn't set your heart racing like the Audi does. Driving the M3 really is very different from driving the Audi, and yes I can see why some people might think its better. You do feel more "connected" to the road - simply because the M3 feels so much less sophisticated. So much more raw. Its more basic; more Lotus Elise-like. The trouble is, it just doesn't "go" as well as the Audi. Put your foot down in third or fourth at (say) 2,000 rpm and there's really nothing happening. Sure if you like to drive in the 5,000 rpm power band all the time then yes, its quick. But it needs to be revved hard to get it going.

And the handling on the M3 just can't touch the S4. Coming back on the test drive even at "moderate" speed, I could feel the back-end trying to step out into the ditch and the electronics cutting in to keep me on track. Switching the ASR etc off in this would put the average driver in the fields in about 5 minutes! The AUDI just isn't like that; its like its on rails!

Frankly I couldn't believe how disappointing the M3 was in comparison. Sure, compared to a regular 330 Coupe, or an Audi A4, then the M3 would have seemed fabulous. But not compared to the S4.

I was so amazed, I decided to take the S4 for another spin. Perhaps my imagination had got the better of me and the S4 was really going to be a disappointment after the M3. I really really really wanted an M3. I have always wanted an M3. But as soon as I drove off in the S4, I could tell the Audi was the car for me. Its just miles better. Its faster (don't believe the stats. The AUDI will do 0-60 in around 5.0 and it feels faster too.) It handles better. In the dry it beats the M3, in the wet there's no comparison. Its better built, by a mile. And its cheaper (although not by much!) and its safer too.

So I bought the S4 :-) $62,628 of my hard earning cash :-( And I pick it up tomorrow :-) Hence me reading this thread and posting here.

The M3 has a loyal following and its by no means a bad car. But I wonder how many passionate M3 owners have actually driven the new S4. Its in a different league.

Just my "2 cents"

Chip.

Hi Chip,

I appreciate your review, but I think your choice of car simply came down to what you’re really looking for, which basically is not a sports car.

You say that the S4 has superior handling in that the M3’s back-end wants to step out whereas the S4 is “on rails”. Of course the M3’s looser, 343bhp at the rear wheels will always want to step out, and the S4’s 4 wheel drive. Does this mean it handles better? You’re not differentiating between grip and handling, which are entirely different things. Once the S4 loses grip, which is likely to be at high speed, id like to see you bring it back. It’ll understeer like mad. That’s a basic fact. It’s simply not a sports car, like the pure, rwd M3. No criticism, the (also heavier) S4 simply wasn’t built for that. If someone says that an S4 is miles better than an M3, I cant help thinking that his/her priorities lean heavily towards those embodied by one of two cars he/she thought were equally suited to him/her. When you say the M3’s race bred, universally acclaimed engine doesn’t set your heart racing, 1) I die from shock, and 2) it clear that your priorities lie with a rather “lazily fast” car, one that isn’t on the edge, but easier to drive fast, more comfortable, and less dangerous to live with. Which is basically what the torquey S4 sets out to do. As for stats, Audi were so concerned with these that they tuned the power output to 344bhp, i.e. 1bhp more than the M3. A silly game to play, really, but then if they’re so concerned with the numbers game im sure they wouldn’t understate theirs to look inferior to the M3’s. So I do believe the stats. Besides, tests have shown that the M3 is faster in a straight line sprint.

I hope you don’t see this as me criticising your choice of car, far from it, the S4 is excellent, but if you think the M3’s “isn’t special” or the S4 “miles better”, then your priorities must lie firmly elsewhere. To say that the S4 is “in a different league”, well, here’s how I see it. It might have the edge in comfort, though I cant agree its interior is that much more special than the M3’s, they’re on a par to me, typical, unspectacular German interiors of high quality, admittedly the Audi’s shades it in quality. But when it comes to performance and the thrill of driving, the M3 is certainly a league above. The S4 simply wasn’t made for that purpose, just as the M3 was made to be an entertaining RWD sports car that can fight a 911. That, and the fact it can do the trip to the supermarket with no hassle puts it firmly on top for me.

My own 2 cents, and welcome to AF :)

The M3 (e46 Eurospec) has 343 hp I believe and a 0-60 in 4.8 I believe the v8 S4 to be well over 5 seconds on the sprint.

the M3 is also far more responsive and definitely infinitely more fun to drive.

But I'd take my GT3 any day :)

Note: The S4 is not a sports car, it doesn't take the corners as well, accellerate nearly as well and recover at all, and I've driven an e46 with the DSC and TCS off and I managed to drift the thing quite nicely while the Audi we tested just seemed to spin and slide sideways... so as far as true performance goes the M3 dominates in all aspects but creature comforts, which is what Audi is known for its interior.

Now you see where this mis-information is everywhere.

According to BMW, the M3 does 0-60 in 5.2, not 4.8 I accept that yes, it might in reality be faster than 5.2. But Audi quote their time as 5.6 and in reality, it *is* faster than 5.6 Motortrend.com benched the S4 at 4.9

But none of this matters really. The fact is the Audi is faster in all "normal" circumstances. Put your foot down in an M3 at 1,500 rpm and nothing happens. Contrast the Audi: do the same and its off like a rocket. The beemer just needs to be driven so much harder to get it to go fast.

Then there's the handling. Most people would think that the Audi might beat the M3 in the wet, right? But not the dry? Well BBC's "Top Gear" - the UK's highest-rated car programme tested the M3 vs the S4 on the track in test conditions. In the dry. And guess what, the Audi is *faster* on the track than the M3. So all this stuff about "the M3 handles better" is just pure myth.

Cheers,

Chip.

5.2-5.3 is for the North American model (which has 10 hp less than the Eurospec, which is the one I specifically mentioned). And "Top Gear" is not their number one mag'... ever hear of "Car" Magazine.

Also, there is a production model of the M3 that is significantly faster, M3 GTR... which dusts the S4 in any situation...

5.2-5.3 is for the North American model (which has 10 hp less than the Eurospec, which is the one I specifically mentioned). And "Top Gear" is not their number one mag'... ever hear of "Car" Magazine.

Also, there is a production model of the M3 that is significantly faster, M3 GTR... which dusts the S4 in any situation...

BMW gmbh and BMW UK both quote 5.2 as the 0-60 time.

Yes, I have heard of "Car" mag. Presumably they have something good to say about the M3?

I know about the M3 GTR; more money for less car.... well less weight anyway. But frankly this is a bit irrelevant to me. If you want a bare bones go kart, then but a Lotus Elise. Its faster and better handling than an M3 or an S4 and about half the price.

The S4 would be even quicker if I take the seats out ;-)

The issue we are debating is that both the M3 and the S4 are genuinely every-day useable cars and which one is faster/better. I say the S4 is faster. Others may disagree. But either way its close. Very close. Anyone saying the M3 is way faster are just plain wrong. It just isn't.

Chip.

crayzayjay

Sorry I only just saw your post; must have missed it earlier.

You make some interesting and valid points and I can agree with much of it. Yes the M3 and S4 are aimed at different target markets - you can tell that as soon as you sit in them.

And I don't disagree that the M3 is probably faster on a 0-60 dash in test conditions. But not by much. In test conditions, the M3 perhaps manages 4.8s~4.9s and the S4 maybe ~5.0s. i.e. no difference at all really. And that's with a damned good driver who knows what he's doing. In real-world driving, I doubt if anyone could tell the difference and if anything the Audi's greater torque at low revs will make it quicker for the average driver.

With respect to the handling, it really does depend what you want. If you want to go track-day racing then I would think the M3 would be a better blast. You do get more "feel", I agree. But you'd have to laugh at the M3 drivers for all their "feel" being lapped by S4 owners cruising past. LOL.

Don't get me wrong - I am not on some sort of M3-bashing exercise. I really did want to buy an M3 and who knows, maybe I will one day. (The itch thats got to be scratched?) But I get a bit sick of people crooning about how wonderful the M3 is, and that it blows everything away. The reality is far from that. Unless you *like* feeling like you are "on the edge" and that you might be in the ditch at any moment. That's not for me.

Cheers & thanks for an interesting debate.

Chip.

PS. I notice the poll stands at 15:3 in favour of the M3. That's very interesting. I wonder:

What is the average age of the readers here? (i.e. how many 15~30's are there vs 30~45's)? You can guess at the distribution of votes, can't you.

I also wonder how many of the 18 voters have actually driver *both* cars? 0? 1? 2?

Interesting.

I've personally raced (On track) a M3 against a S4 both I and the other driver are competent and fairly well trained drivers and in both races the M3 was a second to a second and a half faster.

We raced 10 laps on a mile (3 turn) track, then switched cars and repeated.
Light Mist, 10 Celsius, both on slicks.

I don't have the times on me, but I'll post them up tomorrow.

E46 M3 vs S4 V8

as a joke we then put a porsche GT3 and a Dinan E46 against the stock M3 and S4.

suffice it to say, the GT3 posted the best times by a lot!

P.S. I'm 19, and I've driven everything from a 92' Mazda 929 Serenia (my very first car) to a Ferrari 360 Challenge. And even a lotus elise once, which I loved. Currently I've got a 1987 Porsche 928 S4 (black on black in mint condition).

I've personally raced (On track) a M3 against a S4 both I and the other driver are competent and fairly well trained drivers and in both races the M3 was a second to a second and a half faster.

Whereas I have no reason to doubt what you say Noah, equally I have no way of knowing if its complete BS. I could just as easily say I have tested both the M3 and the S4 on a track and I found that the S4 beat the M3 by 1.4 secs per lap on average. This is untrue - I haven't tested them - but I could easily say it.

But what I can state as fact is that the UK's top driving programme ("Top Gear") watched by 10+ million of viewers had their professional racing driver do the same objective test. To everyone's surprise they found that the S4 was 1 second quicker. Unlike your claim or mine, this is published fact.

Chip.

This forum is based around people sharing expressing their opinions and personal experiences. If we immediately call into question someone’s experience because it doesn’t agree with what we believe, well, lets just say that’s a very negative approach...
I also watched TG and did see the S4 lap one second quicker than the M3 and (this you did not mention) also saw the M3 outsprint the S4, backing up the slightly superior M3 numbers published in magazines. 4.7s plays 4.9, I believe. Now the numbers I don’t really care about, but let’s just put the facts in the open. So, to the handling issue. The S4 lapped a second quicker around the TG track. Fact. No one’s arguing there. This leads to your comment about the “M3’s superior handling being a myth”. But this doesn’t stand up. Does a second advantage mean the S4 handles better? No. Again you haven’t differentiated between grip and handling. The S4’s superior traction and torque have to be taken into account. You could say the M3 made up for having less traction and torque by lapping only a second off the S4. It’s more complicated than “faster time, better handling”. As for being “on edge”, well, the M3 is more “reactive” when being pushed because it has a harder character than the S4. It’s still predictable, and balanced at the limit. And that’s what you look for in a sports car. I cant claim to have driven an S4, but every road test ive seen or read has left the driving honours firmly with the M3, then a good deal of the testers saying they’d rather have the S4 because its easier to live with. You’re right, anyone saying the M3 is much faster is plain wrong. But the handling issue, well, like we said these cars are significantly different. One of these is an all-about-the-thrill-of-driving sports car and the other a very fast sports saloon. The M3’s superior handling is far from a myth, it’s a well deserved tribute

What is this, the M3 owners' club? Anyone would think I had raped to Pope, let alone *dare* to suggest that the S4 might actually be a better car than the we're-not-worthy we're-not-worthy M3.

In your earlier post, you made some balanced, reasoned arguments that I could respect. But this dogmatic attitude has irritated me enough to not want to visit here any more. Your loss.

BTW, I didn't say the Top Gear tested the M3 as being faster in a straight line because there was no point. If you can be bothered to read the thread you will notice I had already accepted this to be the case. Unlike you, who couldn't accept the S4 was better if it did 0-60 in 3 seconds and cornered like glue. The M3 is better, by definition, because its an M3, right?

Goodbye.

Chip.

Yes, it’s all a conspiracy. Everyone in the world is taking part, plotting against S4 owners :rolleyes: I could sense your annoyance from the start that the M3 is seen as the better drivers’ car and I tried to tiptoe around it. But if you get “irritated” when you read something you disagree with, it’s not my problem. You should be able to deal with that. Two people have respectfully disagreed with you on this thread and you chose to discredit them. "I couldnt accept that the S4 is better if it 0-60'd in 3 and cornered like glue"? Newsflash. These things dont add up to a better car. If youre incapable of holding a debate without someone having to nurse your feelings (how many times do you want me to tell you the S4 is an excellent car?), then no, your leaving is not AF’s loss.

Now, if youre still interested in being rational, because I never stopped
=>
You said it yourself, the S4 and M3 are different in character. So surely each has a different emphasis. The M3’s more of a handful, it’s a more engaging and challenging car to drive fast. The emphasis is more on driver enjoyment than in the S4. It’s a simple fact.

But I doubt that will sway you. So let me leave you with this. You seem to rate TG, so consider this. Clarkson and the other presenters said they’d choose to take the M3 around a track. Why take a worse-handling car on a track? That's a huge contradiction. Remember, they’re not M3 diehards, because like you, they plumped for the S4 overall, quoting the easy ownership proposition. As did many journalists, yet they still choose the M3 for a blast around a track. So ill correct your last statement. We were debating which one handles better, not which is better full stop. The M3 is not better handler because its an M3, its better because it was made to be.

Feel free to come back

Oh alright, I'll stop sulking. Apologies for getting so hot under the collar. I was not going to even look at this forum again, but now I've cooled off a bit, maybe I should stick around.

You have no idea how irritating it is to hear the monologue of M3-worship though. The trouble is, whereas there are a lot of knowledgeable people about, there are such a lot of dockheads who wouldn't know a Porsche from a Passat. The M3 is such a desireable car and I reckon a good 50% of the +ve posts come from people who have never even sat in one, let alone let rip behind the wheel.

By way of further evidence for my (imho not so outlandish) claim that the S4 is more than a match for the M3, I offer this:

"Out on the twisty roads, the S4 quickly became the favorite. The firm Recaro bucket keeps the driver in place without straining. The stability control is so subtle in its operation that you never feel it intrude (unless you’ve made a big mistake). Chassis dynamics are simply superb. As you brake deep into a turn, the S4 puts its belly to the ground and maintains amazing stability as you pick up the arc toward the exit and squeeze on the power. Roll angles are tightly controlled. The shocks keep body motions on a short leash. You can feel the tires scratching and straining for grip as the front and rear electronic differential locks respond to the V-8 torque. The Quattro’s stern discipline keeps redistributing the driving forces, allowing you to get the throttle open early yet cling confidently to your intended line. This is a car that’ll work with you! Few sporting cars are this open in their communication, and so disinclined to mischief. Of this trio, the S4 is in a class by itself, scoring the full 10 points in our handling rating, two above the M3 and three above the C32. It also earned a 10 in fun to drive, decisively above the others. Would the throaty motor music be worth a point all by itself? It might."

Thank you http://www.caranddriver.com, May 2003.

Chip.

Edit. Oh and another thing: Clarkson and co. said nothing about preferring the M3 on the track either. I just watched the programme again to check. Yet another example of M3 worship getting the better of people's judgement/memory.

My mistake, but im convinced he said something to that effect. Anyhow, before we both start quoting journos left right and centre, lets just say theyre both good cars and leave it at that :)

the S4 comes with a non-turbo V8 3.2L 340hp, and the 03 E46 M3 has a 3.2L I6 333hp, not much difference, but I do agree, the M3 is much funner to drive than the S4, but the S4 is nice because its luxurious, I am more of a bimmer fan than an Audi fan.

the S4's have a bigger engine 3.2L V8 with 340 hp, and the M3 have a 3.2L I6 engine, the cornering on the M3 is better than the S4, the power overall is better on the S4, but the S4 was made for more lux than performance, if you want a car for total performance, go for the M.

Oh alright, I'll stop sulking. Apologies for getting so hot under the collar. I was not going to even look at this forum again, but now I've cooled off a bit, maybe I should stick around.

You have no idea how irritating it is to hear the monologue of M3-worship though. The trouble is, whereas there are a lot of knowledgeable people about, there are such a lot of dockheads who wouldn't know a Porsche from a Passat. The M3 is such a desireable car and I reckon a good 50% of the +ve posts come from people who have never even sat in one, let alone let rip behind the wheel.

By way of further evidence for my (imho not so outlandish) claim that the S4 is more than a match for the M3, I offer this:

"Out on the twisty roads, the S4 quickly became the favorite. The firm Recaro bucket keeps the driver in place without straining. The stability control is so subtle in its operation that you never feel it intrude (unless you’ve made a big mistake). Chassis dynamics are simply superb. As you brake deep into a turn, the S4 puts its belly to the ground and maintains amazing stability as you pick up the arc toward the exit and squeeze on the power. Roll angles are tightly controlled. The shocks keep body motions on a short leash. You can feel the tires scratching and straining for grip as the front and rear electronic differential locks respond to the V-8 torque. The Quattro’s stern discipline keeps redistributing the driving forces, allowing you to get the throttle open early yet cling confidently to your intended line. This is a car that’ll work with you! Few sporting cars are this open in their communication, and so disinclined to mischief. Of this trio, the S4 is in a class by itself, scoring the full 10 points in our handling rating, two above the M3 and three above the C32. It also earned a 10 in fun to drive, decisively above the others. Would the throaty motor music be worth a point all by itself? It might."

Thank you http://www.caranddriver.com, May 2003.

Chip.

Edit. Oh and another thing: Clarkson and co. said nothing about preferring the M3 on the track either. I just watched the programme again to check. Yet another example of M3 worship getting the better of people's judgement/memory.

Just my 2 cents
fun to drive is subjective - what's fun for one person may be boring to another.
In that article the BMW M3 is faster to 60, 100 & 150 mph 'albeit you have to work the gearbox to stay ahead'
It had a shorter stopping distance, better skidpad number (measurement of grip) and faster lane change manuever (gauge of handling ability) than the S4 and C32 it was being compared to. Better numbers don't mean a better car, I agree, but if the S4 did inspire more confidence to drive it fast like the author says in the article perhaps the 'limits' of the S4 fall short of the M3. In other words the setup of the audi makes it easier to drive it at its limits whereas it will take a more accomplished driver to take the M3 to its limits --- and this is what makes it a more exciting & perhaps satisfying, experience for some. Oh, and in that Topgear video you all were referring to - Clarkson and his buddy did say that they'll take the M3 over the S4 for a day at the track.

PS.
Checkout http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0309scc_evogermany/
Evo VIII vs. Porsche C4S, BMW M3 and Audi S4
Topgear in one of it's earlier articles compared the M3, S4 and Volvo S60R --- they preferred the M3 in that one (Angus Frazer was the author and Paul Debois was the photographer)
Autocar also did a comparo M3 vs S4 --- the editors there also gave the nod to the M3

I'm NOT dissing the S4. I'm trying to say that the reviews are subjective. What may be important to them may not be important to you and vice versa. The bottom line is --- it's your hard earned cash buy what makes you happy.

maybe chip just doesnt know how to drive a higher revving car? * no offense intended * maybe instead of downshifting he'd rather just stay in the same gear and have "imediate results". Or maybe he just didnt really get to drive it hard because he had a salesmen sitting in the passenger's seat. i think the best opinion would be from someone who's owned both or has driven both to the max on a windy country road and not necessarily on a track... i d k... thats my .02 cents (or maybe its not even worth that much LOL). this is just what all came to mind when i was reading the post...

Wow. This has been one hot steamed topic. I believe forums (even AF) are subject to hearing the opinions of their members, and by reading these 2 pages I can very well tell you who likes the S4 vs. the M3. It just sounds like to me that some people may be taking others opinions, posted on this forum, a little bit to personal. Please try not to let somthing so little as a simple discussion between two cars get turned into a defensive battle.
I honestly haven't gotten head to toe with the M3, but I do know a little about the S4. From what I know the S4 is one hell of a production made by audi. A 4.2 liter 4cam 40valve (wow), V8 rated at 340hp (whew). When I think of a 40valve V8, for some reason, the first thing that comes to mind is a ferrari. They are very popular for using 5valve per cylinders. Thats not usually the first thing that comes to mind when your talking about basically a five seater sedan. 40 valve cylinder heads make use for lots of torque, which is by no doubt, a very distinguishable feature of the S4. Equiped with its quarttro AWD system, accompanied by its Torsen center differential, makes this car one sophisticated machine. Although I wouldn't doubt an M3 is more than capable to compete against an S4, I just don't know as much about this "ultimate driving machine". I'm sure their is a reason that backs the name. Does anyone have information about the M3. What makes people so crazy about them?

If we have to go into what makes "people crazy about M3's" we'd be starting all over again. As has been said many times in this thread, they are cars of very different character.

The M3 is born to a grandfather of racing heritage - the E30 M3 - and whilst the E46 M3 wasn't designed to race, it does adhere to many of the E30 M3's engineering principles. High powered and RWD for sporty, adjustable handling.

The S4 is high powered but AWD and in all truth is designed to be a (very) fast sports saloon that grips for all it's worth, but not a sports car experience like the M3. It's safer and has a more relaxed character than the M3, and doesnt need to be worked as hard as an M3 to extract the performance. Some prefer this, but it's a less intimate driving experience and definitely not what makes a sports car.

If you still dont know why people are crazy about M3's drive any M car from the last 10 years and you'll see exactly why people rave about them. Ive been up close and personal with an E34 M5 (340bhp), E36 M3 (321bhp euro-spec) and most recently an E39 M5 (400bhp) and they totally blew my mind with a great balance of power and handling, the E34 in particular.

Ok, so if im getting this right if you want a sports car out of the 2, go for the M3. If you want a sporty sedan, go for the S4
:cheers:

You hit the nail on the head