Initial-D Realism

First Off, I would like to say this is not ment to bea :angryfire FLAME :angryfire post. It's nothing like that at all, it's just a comment on what's real and what's not.

I made this thread because this topic seemed to be dissrupting other threads. So anways here I am to share my views.

First, I love Initial-D the manga is great and a good place to geta person hooked on cars, they you use very modern terms, and explain drifting very well. Also it is a very good representation of what really does go on in the Japanese mountain passes. After all Initial-D is roughly based on true mountain pass illeagal drifting.

But that is just the problem, it roughly based on it, not true. This is wehre Initial-D fails many people. Many of the things that happen are just not plausible, we would like to think they are, but some situations are just not, I don't care how good a driver you are (takumi being the one in question) But you won't head out to your first race and beat the second best racer on a team. Or learn how to control understeer in the matter of a few turns (gumtape death match). It just will not happen, I mean the kid delivers tofu, he doesn't know the first thing about racing, i understand some people will have the innate ability to drive better tahn others, but how in hell did he learn to make a pass on another car, keep pace with another car, or any techniques that has to do with head on racing (as opposed to time trials). I will continue in another post.

heh my thoughts can't be contained in one post.

I believe in the other thread the question was wether, an AE86, could beat a skyline. Now let's for get most of the specs right now, just focus on one thing, horsepower, 120hp vs. upwards of 400hp. I'm sorry but if that 400hp driver at least has a driver liscence and can see over the wheel, he will most likely win. Now the brakes get down? In one race? I don't care how much you push your car, your brakes aren't gonna be screwed up that bad. And if someone decides to say, but maybe he raced a lot before that, no Japanese driver that is serious about racing is going to go in a race without spending that whole day reviewing his/her car over and over again. Now if the 86 driver had about 30 years of experience under his belt (Bunta i guess) I would then start thinking of it to be possible that the 86 might win. Remember this is before Takumi's car was tuned.

Also another thing that Dorikin was trying to get at was that Initial-D is an anime. You diehard fans have to realize that, it's only a cartoon, i've seen some kids finish watching it and think they are experts on drifting from HEARING those techniques, (i'm not implying that anyone here is), If you read a cook book, you will cook, if you read a an instructin manual you will understand, BUT if you read a book on swimming and try to swim, you will drown man. This is what Initial-D does, you understand all these drifting techniques, but if you dare go out and try them on a mountain pass, you might as well tell your insurance company to cough up the cash ahead of time, and you may wanna call up your life insurance company too.

Sorry for making you all read so much :rolleyes:

I now some of you will disagree with what i put up here, and some of you will try to explain just how good takumi is. Well when Takumi comes and posts in this convo how good he is then I will believe him . . . oh what's that i hear "But, he's just a cartoon!"

PRECISELEY

Ill leave it at that, i want to say a couple things to finish tho, I am a fan of initial D, I've wasted loads of money on arcade stage, I have special stage on my PS2 (hahhaha had to guess what all the japanese said) tho my borther took it to his house *grrr*. I have watched all three stages and have them all on VCD, burned them so now iwatch it on my DVD player. So I am not a hater of initial-d, i love it, i just think you have to know when to draw the line between it and real racing.

Once again this is not a :angryfire FLAME :angryfire post, it is simply a comment on the realism of Initial-D

I agree with you completly. i am also an avid fan of the initial d anime and espicially the manga. I feel it is the type of thing where you have to suspend disbelief. Kind of like in the star wars movies where there is sound in space or horror movies where the killer walks a 4 sec. 100 yard dash. I realize that it is not real and accept that, but it is still fun as hell to watch. The other thing with the skyline is if this guy is so good don't you think he would realize the downfalls of his car and do something about it. Like you said he is obviusly a very exprienced driver and would know to invest in some ss brake lines to control brake fade. Good post. You have at least one person that agrees with you.

I'd like to refer to best motoring right now.

Keiichi Tsyuchiya's Truneo has 170ps which is a little under 160hp and he beats high powered vehicles quite easily on the downhill and he probably is the best driver at best motoring.

He also says Real men race downhill

Its better to beat higher powered vehicles with a lower powered car.

and let us not forget that they do take the piss out of initial D at some points only a little bit.

I wouldn't have thought that a trueno would beat Skylines and stuff but it seems to do so on the Touge.

I agree it is possible to beat a higher powered car with a lower powered one in the right conditions. I compete regularly in a local auto-x and know small relatively low power cars can be as fast or quicker than much faster veichles, however, can you really compare a man who has been racing for decades to an 18 year old kid. There really is no comparisson. I also believe we are failing to take into account that this is all occuring at night where it is much more diffucult drive simply because there is a reduced ability to see.

You must watching Keiichi Tsyuchiya's Demo video "Only FR" , to see how he drive an AE86 . (945kg)

When drifting downhill , you put yours life in to big risk , so small power car have better control over high power mechine .

PS: Sure an animetion can add some "crazy" happening to making it more actractive to watch :bloated:

Well it all comes down to the fact that it's an anime all over again, remember me saying

Now if the 86 driver had about 30 years of experience under his belt (Bunta i guess) I would then start thinking of it to be possible that the 86 might win

I know that it is possible espically for the drift king himself, Keiichi Tsyuchiya. But what I am saying is that due to the nature of the show, A CARTOON, Takumi could have turned around and use his ass cheeks to steer and he still would have won the race. It is not Takumi's skill that decides these racers, it is the writers who sit down at a desk and design the manga.

Initial-D is not real life real life. I'll say it again, sure some people have the naturaul born ability to drive better than others, i understand that. THough there is no way that an 18 year old with 160 hp, in his . . hmm i believe it was his second race, is going to beat the leader of a racing team with 400+hp (we don't know how his skyline was tuned).

The Fact inside the story.........

He drive downhill in the same location for 5 year (every morning) , he push him self to go fastest ,so he can get some rest before go to school.

ps: Human mind are fresh in the morning ... (easy to memo..)

after he get use to high speeding , the danger & fear is gone ...
the "traning" become his motion for every morning . it's autometic !

Now if the 86 driver had about 30 years of experience under his belt (Bunta i guess) I would then start thinking of it to be possible that the 86 might win

One must keep in mind that Takumi had been racing every day for the last five years. That's 1826 days of experience, this is more than 30 years of saturday night drifting experience. In Japan it's common to see good cars get beaten by underpowered ones on downhill races. The mountain passes there are very steep and dangerous. This makes most of the races very plausible. The skyline did crash after all.:cool:

<--- n00b to these forums but im gonna post my opinion anyway.

I find it hard to believe that anyone thinks the stuff done on initial D is real, it is a cartoon and im pretty sure anyoen over the age of 3 can see the difference between a cartoon and real life.

Initial D has a huge following because it is fun, it is enjoyable to watch and to play, noone goes around saying 'man i can drift my 86 straight past that noob in his FD' its just not right.

Remember the days of mortal combat and such? well i didnt see kids running aroudn trying to do crazy moves on adults.

In real touge battles, pretty much the WHOLE COURSE is turns. Almost NO straights. Now consider the fact that a 86 with suspension and tire mods can safely maintain a higher cornering speed than even a RX-7 FD.

If the course is 99% corners, and the 86 can corner faster than a FD, why would you say the 86 has a small chance of winning? The only problem here is the fact that initial D has portrayed the courses as having a lot of straights.

Im not saying the kind of driving in Initial D is possible. In fact that kind of drifting is actually nearly IMPOSSIBLE - to sucessfully execute a perfect drift in every corner of a course is just not reality.

Thanks i fianly got some feed back, i will give my views and reasons a bit later, but rite now i gotta go BBQ some pork chops :D so bare with me, i'll be back tonite.

An btw nomatter what is said in this thread i just hope everyone knows like the first thing i said in this thread this is not ment to flame initial D

There is something about ink and paint that makes you wonder about the reality of a series, isn't there? :iceslolan

Did the series exaggerate? Naturally. After all, if it was one-hundred percent real it wouldn't have been very entertaining to the mass public.

There is reality buried in the series. The courses are well depicted, the cars (save for the outrageousness of the tofu-shop 'Roku) are fairly accurate, and the characters are generally people you'd expect to meet in everyday life.

LanEvo, you're right. It was a bunch of screenwriters who decided when, where, and how Takumi won each race. That's television.

But you know what, I like my TV, especially my anime, and I'll gladly take a bit of fantasy over the new reality drek anyday.

MMMMMM Mighty good pork chops ;)

First off, i don't mean to degrade you Tegus, but pray tell, how do you know what happens on the underground racing in Japan.
In Japan it's common to see good cars get beaten by underpowered ones on downhill races

A down hill race certainly does even up the hp differnece, but at a max of 50 hp not much more.

Next i'll correct you on this statement.

One must keep in mind that Takumi had been racing every day for the last five years.

The point where you mention racing, makes this statement a complete fraud. Takumi has experience drifting, but he has no experience what so ever with racing. Ask anyone here who Autocrosses. A time trial when your all alone, is completley different from a race with other people on the track. I mentioned this when i first opened the thread. He has no clue about racing.

Now Fliquer, you said a tough course is composed mainly of turns. Have you watched actaul racing clips of drifting? Or even Wanga? They are not, they are typicaly composed of three to six difficult turns that will require drifting, those turns make it a drifting course, the rest of turns are impractical to use drifting on. That is why most drifting in the world (including Japan) is kept off the mountains and on the tracks where it is possible to use drifting techniques more often.

Now it's not that I am refusing to believe that it's possible for an 86 to win, it most certainly is possible, just highly unlikely. You all treat it like it's the car of god's. Well it's not. Take the anime for example, you see how people ridicule a person for using an 86 to race. Well that would happen in real life. They are outdated, an FD or FC has superior . . . everything. the only thing that the 86 tops them on is it's weight, but nowadays that no longer matters, as with proper engine management components, this is very easy to even out.

Another thing i thought of (as people bring up matters of cornering), some might bring up the topic that an NA engine will corner better than an FI engine. First tell me why? The fact is when you stop accelerating, the turbo stops spooling, making for no or very little induction. Making it an NA engine for a very short time. Espically when talking about an FD or FC, a rotary engine. Then when it comes to the straights, the turbo will leave the NA behind, note the turbo will lose some times in the corners, though it will take the corner typicaly the same way.

I'll say it on more time IT IS A CARTOON IT IS NOT REAL, IT IS ALL UP TO WRITERS AS TO WHAT HAPPENS! TAKUMI HAS NO SKILL!

If you have more thoughts post away, i'll be glad to here them i love crticsm as long as it's not constructive and doesn't put down anyone.

it's only a "racer" story .......

dosen't have anything to do with Realism..

Zz~zZ~zZ :redface:

First off, i don't mean to degrade you Tegus, but pray tell, how do you know what happens on the underground racing in Japan.

I was actually in Tokyo with my father last year's Christmas for vacation. The apartment I was staying in had a view to an intersection where many cars practiced drifting. I was able to see one road race on Rokko Island between two Rx-7s, the winner had supposedly beaten a highly tuned Skyline the week before I arrived. It was after seeing this that I got interested in drifting and started watching Initial D. I know it's just a cartoon but besides being very entertaining it gives you a very good picture of how road racing in Japan is. I could swear that the roads that are in Initial D are almost identical to some I saw over there.

Originally posted by tegusdrifter
I could swear that the roads that are in Initial D are almost identical to some I saw over there.

thats cuz the animators/writers used actual roads for Initial D.
Initial D = Entertainment

Initial-D is modled after some real courses, but the writers won't relinquish the names of these mountains. At least that's some rumor i heard from a friend who is a die hard initial-d fan.

I agree that it is fun to watch, well it's definetley fun to watch, but i'm sorry that i can't comment on how much of a true idea it really gives you of Japan's underground racing. So i'll take your word for that, since you have more experience with it than me.

But i think our views are pretty much the same. Initial-D fun to watch, you get some facts out of it, but take it with a grain of salt.

"IF" it were real life - I think that if someone drove the exact same stretch of mountain road course everyday, through dry, rain, and snow, for the past five years in a hachi-roku, and he did it as FAST as he can possibly go every time without spilling a cup of water, and then out of nowhere he had to race someone on that same stretch of road, someone that has drove there only a few times, I think I would put my money on the hachi-roku, whether he had to race a 400HP Skyline or any other car on that same stretch of road. Whether or not he has never raced another car before wouldn't matter, he knows the road better than anyone else except his dad, and he hauls ass there everyday. "IF" it were real life, the Skyline or any other car wouldn't stand a chance, even if they were experienced drivers, Takumi was more experienced on that particular road. If you have ever raced on a REAL mountain pass road similar to Akina (Highland Valley Road, San Diego) then you would know. Your brakes get hot FAST especially going downhill. So whether it was real or cartoon, Takumi should win all the races in Akina (just not the WAY he wins in the cartoon) As for the OTHER tracks in the rest of the series, I don't know about that...
Since it is only a cartoon, ENTERTAINMENT is the key. Of course there are going to be alot of BS parts like 1 cm to the gaurdrail, the gutter, and drifting on mountain passes that he has never driven on before. That's just entertainment. I think that the writers of Intial D had the right idea about Takumi's driving skill, they just exaggerated too much. All it comes down to is this: Good that he won all the Akina races, but he should have lost all the races outside Akina. But who cares, it's only a cartoon, right?

I'd like to point out that none of the opponents cars are extremely high powered and at no point did he out accelerate a higher powered vehicle on a straight line. This is Touge we're talking about Large Turbo's don't help much between tight corners again I would like people to have a look at best motoring videos before shouting their mouths of that it is not realistic. I think it is pretty close. Agreed Keiichi's car has a lot of weight saving mods but the idea is pretty close to what Keiichi did with his car when he used to race on Touge's (downhill only) Before he became famous for his constant drifts.

I'm glad that you both brought up very valid points.

I'll first address sidewayseg6; you've noted what i have said about racing experience versus individual high speed experiences. Though I don't think you appreciate it, if you post in the AutoX forum and ask the difference between a time trial and a head on head. You will quickly have several people willing to educate you about the differences. If i remember correctley i believe the skyline was in front for the begging portion of the race. This skyline is the member of a racing team, i think he would know how to block, also since he has the advantage of AWD (i'm pretty sure he was AWD) he could very easily block.

Anyways i could rant more about other stuff you said but i'll leave it to two comments, one you started of your topics with "IF it were real". Well that's what this topic was all about, Initial-D realism, it simply is not real. Also you mentioned some BS that Initial-D often used, sure there is plenty of it, but i figured that you'd like to know the "gutter" is a real technique these forums may have somthying on it if not just go to www.google.ca (http://www.google.ca) and search "ditch hooking"

And NSX a thought, these people were members of racing teams you specificly go racing through mountain passes, i don't think they would install large turbos, maybe just 16G or so not 20G or anything like that. They would know what they are doing.

Keep it up guys, this is a cool topic!

Now Fliquer, you said a tough course is composed mainly of turns. Have you watched actaul racing clips of drifting? Or even Wanga? They are not, they are typicaly composed of three to six difficult turns that will require drifting, those turns make it a drifting course, the rest of turns are impractical to use drifting on. That is why most drifting in the world (including Japan) is kept off the mountains and on the tracks where it is possible to use drifting techniques more often.

Thats right, but I was talking about grip mountain racing.

BTW is "tough" a typo? because i was referring to "touge" not "tough"

Ok, the whole idea is that Takumi pushes himself as hard as he can every day on the downhill, and that he was tutored by Bunta, master drifter who used to terrify Keiichi Tsyuchiya himself with his drifting skills. After 5 years of doing this every day, his skills would be superior to anyone except Bunta. It doesn't matter whether it's on Akina or not, the control he has learned over that car can be applied anywhere.

He drives a 2100lb, 160hp hp FR. You can tell the engine has been modified, it pulls 8000rpm!

As for the "high powered cars" he beats, his opponents are

Keisuke, with a ~350hp, 2800lb FD. Pretty impressive, but he didn't know the course, and Takumi out drove him.

Nakazato, with a 380hp 3400lb GTR. Big, heavy, understeers, doesn't drift the hairpins.

These guys aren't that much more powerful, when you consider the weight, and that htey never really exceed 110 mph / 150kph.

I'm glad that you both brought up very valid points.

I'll first address sidewayseg6; you've noted what i have said about racing experience versus individual high speed experiences. Though I don't think you appreciate it, if you post in the AutoX forum and ask the difference between a time trial and a head on head. You will quickly have several people willing to educate you about the differences. If i remember correctley i believe the skyline was in front for the begging portion of the race. This skyline is the member of a racing team, i think he would know how to block, also since he has the advantage of AWD (i'm pretty sure he was AWD) he could very easily block.

Anyways i could rant more about other stuff you said but i'll leave it to two comments, one you started of your topics with "IF it were real". Well that's what this topic was all about, Initial-D realism, it simply is not real. Also you mentioned some BS that Initial-D often used, sure there is plenty of it, but i figured that you'd like to know the "gutter" is a real technique these forums may have somthying on it if not just go to www.google.ca (http://www.google.ca) and search "ditch hooking"

Keep it up guys, this is a cool topic!

That's pretty cool, i never knew the gutter was an actual technique. I always thought that it was something the artists' just did as an action sequence.
As for the difference between a time trial and a head on race, I only meant that (in that particular situation), where Takumi was racing on his own track, he should be unstoppable. I know there is a difference, but even if the other car was in front blocking, I'm pretty sure Takumi still would of found a way to get passed him before the end of the race, like he did with the gutter. And although Nakazato was an experienced racer, he wasn't TOO experienced because his head wasn't straight. Just like the other racers, they got too emotional. And they all had the wrong goals. Instead of setting their minds on "I need to win this race for MYSELF", they set their minds on "TAKUMI needs to lose this race." In other words, Takumi had his mind set on WINNING the race, or just plain racing because he didn't care if he won or not. The other drivers had their minds set on TAKUMI, and that Takumi must lose at all costs. And I think that played a key factor in the outcome, on top of mechanical failure. But that's on Akina. I think if Takumi raced on another mountain pass, he'd crash on the third turn. :rofl:
That's my opinion, didn't mean to upset you.

shit i love initial D, have all the stages, and even i know not to confuse that a real life hachi roku can defeat a skyline or an rx7 for that matter. sure it's fun seeing takumi race but even then you have to question the realism of the whole thing.
hence why it is a cartoon. the writers try to justify takumi's skill level by saying he would deliver tofu everyday for 5 years. driving and racing are two different subjects like LanEvo said.
shit he even repeats countless times that he loves initial d and this isn't a flame thread...yet the masses seem not to understand that...it is a cartoon, only a cartoon none of it is meant to be real, in fact they even put a disclaimer in the beginning of the anime. it isn't real. do not confuse reality with fantasy...now that that is said i will continue to watch second stage
peace...

What C-Bass said is what i was trying to say the difference isn't that huge

And best motoring's keiichi Tsyuchia uses a Trueno in the touge parts on hot version which is what Takumi does. He beats all these high powered cars including a 350hp S15 because they can't lay down the power all the time. He's also that used to driving the trueno that he's basically what Takumi would be in real life. This guy can drive folks and none of the opponents in Initial D are anywhere near as good as drivers as Takumi and they do make a point of the engine being weak and he does upgrade to the AE111 11000 rpm thing but the sounds for the engine actually come from Keiichi's Trueno and if you watch enough of the best motoring videos you'll agree (its also on the HK DVD with the Production of the Movie Documentary.)

On a track I'm not so sure a Trueno would beat a 280hp skyline but on the Touge Keiichi managed to do it.

Well, Nakazatos R32 was tuned for 380hp, if I recall.

Even so, it weighs over 3000lbs, and the Trueno is barely even 2000lbs. Most of the course is braking and handling, with a few straights in between. If you accept that with a much lighter FR, and intimate knowledge of the course, it's quite plausable that Takumi could beat more powerful cars. Their power/weight isn't that much better than his.

That being said, it is of course a cartoon :grinyes:

And to be fair, no one knows quite what Bunta has done with that Trueno.

Well, Nakazatos R32 was tuned for 380hp, if I recall.

Even so, it weighs over 3000lbs, and the Trueno is barely even 2000lbs. Most of the course is braking and handling, with a few straights in between. If you accept that with a much lighter FR, and intimate knowledge of the course, it's quite plausable that Takumi could beat more powerful cars. Their power/weight isn't that much better than his.

That being said, it is of course a cartoon :grinyes:

And to be fair, no one knows quite what Bunta has done with that Trueno.

exactly
no one knows what bunta has done to that freaking trueno for all we know he could have changed the pullies and pistons...but hey it's just a cartoon...

A stock version car

aftrer few changes
example : 1.wax the IN/EX port , you add "7 HP" minimum
2.High suction Air filter ,add another 5~10 HP
3.changing the ECU and did a fine tune add 12HP
4.changing bigger intercooler ,add 10~15 HP
5.High volume feul injector ,add about 15HP+
6.Changing yours exsauht system to a direct one ,add another5~7HP
7.lose the wight of yours fly-wheel ,possible rev higher RPM and boost the power to 10~30%
8.change to performance CAM/Pully and performance valve spring boost yours engine around 15~20% of power (NA type)

to "NSX-R-SSJ20K"

keiichi Tsyuchia AE 86 (AE 111 engine 20V) just lost the camp to a MR-S (spirit's) tuning car in the new edition of "HOT VERSION" :shakehead keiichi Tsyuchia tells those winner , you guys are stupid to set a battle with a 1600CC (170HP) and lose ...and there is no reason to lost the battle at all. *PS: the tuning specialist tune the suspension to give more stablebility to they car and win keiichi Tsyuchia AE 86 "drifting" in the downhill battle*
[QOUTE]http://images-jp.amazon.com/images/P/B000065BCN.09.MZZZZZZZ.jpg[/QUOTE]

i couldn't make much outta that sentence

I got the HK Best Motoring DVD's i have 59 -62 and just bought Hot Version 63 and The new BMI, i don't remember the Trueno losing though. But if you're talking about the heavily tuned MRS that had carbon fiber aeroparts all round and was completely striped that thing was fast and also beat teh high powered vehicles True that was the thing that went against the S15 but it was beaten by the Trueno if i remember correctly. Could you clarify your post, because i'm not able to make much sense out of it.

Sorry about my english :p

Yeah , The last ep AE86 beat the S15 (they have a few detail about last battle) . this EP AE86 beat by the Spirit's MR'S ...

Sorry I haven't been around for a while! I wasn't home.

First off, NSX, you keep on bringing up Keiichi Tsyuchia. Now this man is the god of drifting, simply put not many people will be able to beat him. Now let's review the differences between a drift king, and a character in a cartoon. . . maybe you got the point, stop bringing up Tsyuchia, He has no reason to be in this thread, sure he drives an 86 and beats a shitload of people, but keiichi Tsyuchia is not a member of the Initial-D cast now is he.

Oh and sidewaysseg, glad you found ditch hooking interesting. Some of the stuff oyu seeon Initial-D is real they just use different words, i.e. Gutter technique is really ditch hooking, and Misfiring system is really Anti-Lag System.

Anyways, watch the stages again and take notes on anything that might be possible then search it on the web quite often you will find a site that mentions the term, then you can find out what it really is.

Sorry I haven't been around for a while! I wasn't home.

First off, NSX, you keep on bringing up Keiichi Tsyuchia. Now this man is the god of drifting, simply put not many people will be able to beat him. Now let's review the differences between a drift king, and a character in a cartoon. . . maybe you got the point, stop bringing up Tsyuchia, He has no reason to be in this thread, sure he drives an 86 and beats a shitload of people, but keiichi Tsyuchia is not a member of the Initial-D cast now is he.

Oh and sidewaysseg, glad you found ditch hooking interesting. Some of the stuff oyu seeon Initial-D is real they just use different words, i.e. Gutter technique is really ditch hooking, and Misfiring system is really Anti-Lag System.

Anyways, watch the stages again and take notes on anything that might be possible then search it on the web quite often you will find a site that mentions the term, then you can find out what it really is.

yea it is because it proves that you can do it in real life.

Takumi is second only to bunta in Driving skill so this means no one can come close which is basically Tsyuchiya and if realism is the question than surely someone who actually did what Takumi does in the cartoon has significant bearing on this thread and more or less proves that Initial D is highly accurate.

I cant say that I ever watched Initial D for pointers on drifting, in fact I dont drift I prefer Zero yon.

They do make sense when they talk about drifting

its a different matter as to whether or not you can pick up any pointers from the way they drive.

There is one very big unrealistic thing nobody has pointed out and that is the length of time it takes for them to get down the mountain... :D

I'd say thats more or less it.

Well, Nakazatos R32 was tuned for 380hp, if I recall.

Even so, it weighs over 3000lbs, and the Trueno is barely even 2000lbs. Most of the course is braking and handling, with a few straights in between. If you accept that with a much lighter FR, and intimate knowledge of the course, it's quite plausable that Takumi could beat more powerful cars. Their power/weight isn't that much better than his.

That being said, it is of course a cartoon :grinyes:

And to be fair, no one knows quite what Bunta has done with that Trueno.

Cool, a thread that finally discusses this subject.

Here's what I got from watching "Initial D" with regards to some miscellaneous bits and pieces. Maybe this will help clear some stuff up. :)

* "I lost because of my unfamiliarity and carelessness." Keisuke (First Stage: Ep. 2)

* "Judging by that start dash, that 86 has 150 HP at most...The reason why the shift points are quick is because it has a (close-ratio) transmission, just like a rally car. That suits Akina's hairpins perfectly." - Ryosuke (First Stage: Ep. 4)

* "You're going to race the 86, with a 32 tuned to 380 HP?" - Ryosuke (First Stage: Ep. 6)

* "The weakness of the 32 is...the weight of the body. Understeering due to the super heavy front load. Suspension tuning and driving technique can't change it's fundamental characteristics. After pushing hard on the downhill, the front tires and brakes will begin to weaken...Even if the brakes are tuned, by the time he reaches the base of the mountain, he has to cope with understeering at the corners' entrances." - Bunta/Ryosuke (First Stage: Ep. 8)

* "I changed the suspension's setting on the 86 a little...(to allow for) heavy understeering when the throttle is open." - Bunta (First Stage: Ep. 8)

* "That GT-R driver isn't flooring it. Is he waiting for me?" - Takumi

"It wouldn't be fair for me to get a lead on the straightaway. I want a battle." - Takeshi (First Stage, Ep. 9)

* "I've been steering hard, keeping the ABS on, so the load to the front tires is greater than I expected!" - Takeshi (First Stage, Ep. 9)

* "I lost...the 32 and I still lost...No, that's wrong. The car didn't lose, I did." - Takeshi (First Stage, Ep. 10)

* "Nakazoto is good at holding down the accelerator as long as possible. He's not concerned with anything else other than going as fast as possible. But his weakness is his impatience and that (he tends to choke under high-pressure situations). (Keisuke) would have lost the race against him if he were a more relaxed driver." - Ryosuke (Second Stage, Ep. 2)

So with regards to the 86 vs. 32 race, Takeshi didn't seem too good of a driver in comparison to the other main drivers of the series, so bad driver skill definitely was a factor in the 86 vs. 32 race...not to mention Takeshi's rather overzealous intentions and arrogance. Also keep in mind how the Night Kids got rocked by the LanEvo team Emperor, and Shingo makes a reference to the Night Kids' recent loss to "Usui's fastest, Impact Blue" in Initial D: Extra Stage. This alone makes you question the skill of the Night Kids team in general.

Plus, it makes sense that tire wear was a factor in that race too. If you combine the fact that you have a 4WD car (engine + 1/2 the drivetrain located at the front of the car), then gravity playing another role in tire wear, by forcing more of the car's weight towards the front (as they are driving downhill), in addition to the driver going as fast as he can, then slamming on the brakes (he puts quite a bit of strain on the brakes as you can hear and see in First Stage, Eps. 9-10), of course the front tires are going to wear out faster because of the extra friction all these factors create, which all contribute to premature tire and brake wear, and loss of grip! Combine all this with Takeshi's inability to cope with a high-pressure situation, and his inability to take the best line possible due to Takumi constantly trying to overtake him, Takeshi eventually chokes. As Takumi "jukes" with the 86, Takeshi begins to panic and slams the gas while failing to realize the dangers of a turbo spike while the car isn't straight.

So, if the driver of the 32 was actually decent, and if he didn't use such low-quality tires, he would have easily crushed the 86.

I guess it's true: It's 50% car, 50% driver, and even that, it comes down to who can push the car to its full potential/limit without going over, although there's always exceptions to the rule from time to time.

Just my 2 cents. :)



By the way, did anyone catch the preview of First Stage: Ep. 9 at the end of Ep. 8, where they interview Takeshi? Comedy gold. :o

Nice synopsis Laser.
but keiichi Tsyuchia is not a member of the Initial-D cast now is he.
Keiichi Tsyuchia does make an appearance in the first stage in the episodes before the AE86 vs. FC3S battle.

woah nyce place, way to talk my interests.

newayz, he did? i've been tryin to download all the initial D episodes. got all from 1-15...can't get 16 but i have 17-26...but i know the storyline.

didn't he call bunta in that one episode?

yeah and that's right before he changes the suspension settings on the 86 and than asks the manager of the gas station to accompany him and there we see only a fraction of the awesomeness that is bunta
a drift with no hands!!!!
hahaahhahahahaaha
:evillol:

haha

What are you doing!?!?!?!

I wanna smoke...

haha i wish i could drive like that :iceslolan

thanks!
:naughty: Cool, a thread that finally discusses this subject.

Here's what I got from watching "Initial D" with regards to some miscellaneous bits and pieces. Maybe this will help clear some stuff up. :)

* "I lost because of my unfamiliarity and carelessness." Keisuke (First Stage: Ep. 2)

* "Judging by that start dash, that 86 has 150 HP at most...The reason why the shift points are quick is because it has a (close-ratio) transmission, just like a rally car. That suits Akina's hairpins perfectly." - Ryosuke (First Stage: Ep. 4)

* "You're going to race the 86, with a 32 tuned to 380 HP?" - Ryosuke (First Stage: Ep. 6)

* "The weakness of the 32 is...the weight of the body. Understeering due to the super heavy front load. Suspension tuning and driving technique can't change it's fundamental characteristics. After pushing hard on the downhill, the front tires and brakes will begin to weaken...Even if the brakes are tuned, by the time he reaches the base of the mountain, he has to cope with understeering at the corners' entrances." - Bunta/Ryosuke (First Stage: Ep. 8)

* "I changed the suspension's setting on the 86 a little...(to allow for) heavy understeering when the throttle is open." - Bunta (First Stage: Ep. 8)

* "That GT-R driver isn't flooring it. Is he waiting for me?" - Takumi

"It wouldn't be fair for me to get a lead on the straightaway. I want a battle." - Takeshi (First Stage, Ep. 9)

* "I've been steering hard, keeping the ABS on, so the load to the front tires is greater than I expected!" - Takeshi (First Stage, Ep. 9)

* "I lost...the 32 and I still lost...No, that's wrong. The car didn't lose, I did." - Takeshi (First Stage, Ep. 10)

* "Nakazoto is good at holding down the accelerator as long as possible. He's not concerned with anything else other than going as fast as possible. But his weakness is his impatience and that (he tends to choke under high-pressure situations). (Keisuke) would have lost the race against him if he were a more relaxed driver." - Ryosuke (Second Stage, Ep. 2)

So with regards to the 86 vs. 32 race, Takeshi didn't seem too good of a driver in comparison to the other main drivers of the series, so bad driver skill definitely was a factor in the 86 vs. 32 race...not to mention Takeshi's rather overzealous intentions and arrogance. Also keep in mind how the Night Kids got rocked by the LanEvo team Emperor, and Shingo makes a reference to the Night Kids' recent loss to "Usui's fastest, Impact Blue" in Initial D: Extra Stage. This alone makes you question the skill of the Night Kids team in general.

Plus, it makes sense that tire wear was a factor in that race too. If you combine the fact that you have a 4WD car (engine + 1/2 the drivetrain located at the front of the car), then gravity playing another role in tire wear, by forcing more of the car's weight towards the front (as they are driving downhill), in addition to the driver going as fast as he can, then slamming on the brakes (he puts quite a bit of strain on the brakes as you can hear and see in First Stage, Eps. 9-10), of course the front tires are going to wear out faster because of the extra friction all these factors create, which all contribute to premature tire and brake wear, and loss of grip! Combine all this with Takeshi's inability to cope with a high-pressure situation, and his inability to take the best line possible due to Takumi constantly trying to overtake him, Takeshi eventually chokes. As Takumi "jukes" with the 86, Takeshi begins to panic and slams the gas while failing to realize the dangers of a turbo spike while the car isn't straight.

So, if the driver of the 32 was actually decent, and if he didn't use such low-quality tires, he would have easily crushed the 86.

I guess it's true: It's 50% car, 50% driver, and even that, it comes down to who can push the car to its full potential/limit without going over, although there's always exceptions to the rule from time to time.

Just my 2 cents. :)



By the way, did anyone catch the preview of First Stage: Ep. 9 at the end of Ep. 8, where they interview Takeshi? Comedy gold. :o

I totally agree with you lanevo i would of said that but i just dont like to type.

And is that a video?! where can i get it....i cant beleive he lost.

People actually arguing about a friggen cartoon like its real?!?!?!?! :lol: :screwy: :shakehead

yeah and that's right before he changes the suspension settings on the 86 and than asks the manager of the gas station to accompany him and there we see only a fraction of the awesomeness that is bunta
a drift with no hands!!!!
hahaahhahahahaaha
:evillol:

Now watch somebody say a no hands drift is unrealistic.I have seen Chunky Bai pull one off,amazing to see.And Initial D is realistic for the most part.People are saying Takumi's skill is way too good,well have you ever seen Kenshiro Gushi.He is 16,in D1,and can drift better than most of the people you look up to.He is also extremely fast.

No hands drift in the mountain? I'd say thats impossible....or rather possible for a few seconds and then.... :banghead:

No hands drift in the mountain? I'd say thats impossible....or rather possible for a few seconds and then.... :banghead:
I dont think he meant on mountain, more like the parking lots that the US drift scene is all about :uhoh:

I just wanted to point out too, that many in the very first part of the movie Vol1 of Initial D it states that the places and and characters are fictional so I must agree with you, ... any one who can walk a way from this movie and suddenly feel like a professional street racer, especially a kid, is insane, for example my first car was a small but very quick little Nissan (until I ruined cylinders 2and 4) but my lack of respect for the vehicle ended up killing it many of those tricks you see in the movie I tried (after the movie Fast and the Furious came out) and I remember one of you pointed out that that kind of thing is dangerous, and dangerous as it may be for the person it is devastating to the car .

I remember one of you pointed out that that kind of thing is dangerous, and dangerous as it may be for the person it is devastating to the car .

Oh come on, if guys didn't mess up their cars they wouldn't need to buy new ones and car companies would go out of business.

I went to the bookstore the other day and picked up an InitialD comic just to see what the big deal was about. Its the chapter where there's a white RX7 looking car drives around at night and then some car is catching up, and then the car passes him, and then the guy can't believe that some 86 econo car just passed him, then he wonders if its a ghost. Its so redundant and monotonous, no imagination at all. InitialD is the sorriest excuse for a manga series. Its so boring and lame, just a bunch of ghetto kids driving around in their cars. Their cars don't even transform or fly through the air (if its not realistic, might as well make it interesting).

Oh come on, if guys didn't mess up their cars they wouldn't need to buy new ones and car companies would go out of business.

I went to the bookstore the other day and picked up an InitialD comic just to see what the big deal was about. Its the chapter where there's a white RX7 looking car drives around at night and then some car is catching up, and then the car passes him, and then the guy can't believe that some 86 econo car just passed him, then he wonders if its a ghost. Its so redundant and monotonous, no imagination at all. InitialD is the sorriest excuse for a manga series. Its so boring and lame, just a bunch of ghetto kids driving around in their cars. Their cars don't even transform or fly through the air (if its not realistic, might as well make it interesting).
Wonderful, another poor guy who came in knowing nothing about the original anime and only Tokyopops butchered version :disappoin
Its a yellow RX7 driven by Keisuke Takahashi (oh wait, is that just KT in Tokyopops version? :mad: ) and this so called "econo 86" would be a AE86, Toyota Sprinter Trueno GT Apex, one of Japans beloved cars that dominate the drift world (Revolver AE86 won D1GP USA) and one is driven by Keiichi Tsuchiya (drift king). Its not exactly econo (it revs to 8k rpm, not way in hell is that stock for a 13+ year old car) and its driven by the main character of Initial D
Now what exactly were you doing in this forum if you dont like Initial D?

THe locations are real,the characters are fictional as in their is no real Takumi Fujiwara.THeir techniques are "real" race techniques.You actually think something the drift king oversaw would be all fake.

LanEvo, have you ever driven a car hard for an extended period of time? A 1500kg GTR VS. a 950kg sprinter down a mountain? If the sprinter driver has any skill hell win every time. Under consistent heavy braking the rotors/pads will exceed their useful temperature range and fade badly and the rubber lines will swell when the pedal is depressed causing spongy feel and loss of power. The tires on the front of a 1500kg GTR will also exceed their useful temperature range rapidly on a downhill because they are doing 75% of the gripping for braking 50% for accelerating and all the steering as well as being loaded up excessively by the transfer of the 1500kg kerb weight. Takumi's drifting puts less empasis on the front tires and also helps scrub speed thus reducing the need for brakes.

In the Gumtape deathmatch Takumi simply realises after the first corner that you dont need opposite lock to correct drift just the accelerator pedal:
lifitng off straightens the line while applying more power tightens the line (neutral drift). Sprint Cars use this method more often than not for example.

Also a turbocharger brings with it an inherent disadvantage: lag.

The drifting that takumi uses isnt the drifting that you see on videos the difference being:

Takumi uses a scandinavian flick on entry while pro drifters brake in a straight line until they are going slower than they otherwise would. then they use their 500bhp to kick the car sideways and hold it there for the duration of the corner. Hence the tire smoke. Takumi meanwhile loads up the outside rear causing the car to lose grip and drift then careful throttle balance keeps the car just beyond its grip limit without powersliding.

And please "Autocross" is not the correct term: Gymkahna is what the more enlightened countries in the world call it. (i.e. England, Europe, Australia, New Zealand). On a tangent of minor cultural abuse: Did you know that the name of "Harry Potter and the Sourcerers stone" is in fact "Harry Potter and the Philosophers stone" but the name was changed for the american market because american kids dont know what a Philosopher is?!?

Oh and the move the 86 beat the FC with I've used 100 times in karts so theres some more realism for you.

ok so you don't have a licence fair enough.

Also I might add that RWD professional drift is not too hard to acheive. It's the last 5% that separates the D1 drivers from good amateurs. Linking corners in D1 is all about BHP.

And as a clarification i mean the overtaking move itself not the slingshot off the gutters, you can't do that in a kart, even if the tracks had gutters...

Cultural differences hit hard here in the states, many things are marketed to kids, and everything ends up being butchered (main example : Initial D) I never understood autocrossing, I dont find that much excitement in missing a cone by a inch or two, Ive watched gymkhana events before and they were a bit more interesting than a simple "autocross". I never did know it was called the Philisophers stone, you learn something new everyday dont you? :p
ok so you don't have a licence fair enough.
You know that in the D1GP USA, a 16 year old boy named Kenshiro Gushi placed 7th overall? He doesnt have a license...what would you say to him? That he doesnt have a license, so he doesnt know how to drive?

Stop with the USA bashing or we might think Australia has weapons of mass destruction next. But seriously, who cares if a factory worker doesn't know what philospher means, he goes home to his wife and kids and dies happy anyways, while doing his job. Let people do what they want to do and do what they're best at. Seems to be working for us retarded Americans.

That workers son may not know what philospher means either, but he'll probably find his own small town wife and grow up and die happy working in the same job as his dad. He also has the choice to make a software company and be a billionaire. Now the mayor's son may grow up to President, it's in his blood and thats what he knows. Seems to work out well, which brings me to my next point.

Tak's father drifts, he does, so he already has a natural gift from his father along with teaching and LOTS of practice. And it makes all the difference.

I drive one part of road maybe 5-20 times a day. A very bump curvy PoS in the desert. I've left behind many lowered imports because I know that road well, even in the dark I know just after the dip is a sharp left as you go up and then a nice leaning right. I know the pothole in were your left tire should be at the top of that dip so I take the turn going up the hill playing monorail with the dividing lines.

AND I DRIVE A GEO METRO~

Experience and practice make all the difference, every saturday is nice. But every day two times is sickening in the repetiveness that will never leave your brain. You WILL know that road and you will know your car VERY well.

Ohh.. I sound almost mean and stuff! SCARY! RAWR~ I DRIFT GUDE!

Dont forget, we had to change the names of fries and toast to FREEDOM fries and FREEDOM toast... :p
Its Takumi, Takumi. That TokyoPop is all BS, and just because your parents drive well dont mean you drive well. And if you drive a Metro, you arent much of a "drift gude" (wtf is that?)

LanEvo, have you ever driven a car hard for an extended period of time? A 1500kg GTR VS. a 950kg sprinter down a mountain? If the sprinter driver has any skill hell win every time. Under consistent heavy braking the rotors/pads will exceed their useful temperature range and fade badly and the rubber lines will swell when the pedal is depressed causing spongy feel and loss of power. The tires on the front of a 1500kg GTR will also exceed their useful temperature range rapidly on a downhill because they are doing 75% of the gripping for braking 50% for accelerating and all the steering as well as being loaded up excessively by the transfer of the 1500kg kerb weight. Takumi's drifting puts less empasis on the front tires and also helps scrub speed thus reducing the need for brakes.

In the Gumtape deathmatch Takumi simply realises after the first corner that you dont need opposite lock to correct drift just the accelerator pedal:
lifitng off straightens the line while applying more power tightens the line (neutral drift). Sprint Cars use this method more often than not for example.



The drifting that takumi uses isnt the drifting that you see on videos the difference being:

Takumi uses a scandinavian flick on entry while pro drifters brake in a straight line until they are going slower than they otherwise would. then they use their 500bhp to kick the car sideways and hold it there for the duration of the corner. Hence the tire smoke. Takumi meanwhile loads up the outside rear causing the car to lose grip and drift then careful throttle balance keeps the car just beyond its grip limit without powersliding.

And please "Autocross" is not the correct term: Gymkahna is what the more enlightened countries in the world call it. (i.e. England, Europe, Australia, New Zealand). On a tangent of minor cultural abuse: Did you know that the name of "Harry Potter and the Sourcerers stone" is in fact "Harry Potter and the Philosophers stone" but the name was changed for the american market because american kids dont know what a Philosopher is?!?

Oh and the move the 86 beat the FC with I've used 100 times in karts so theres some more realism for you.


Fanboy ALERT!!


Dont gimme that whole brakign BS. When you have 13" brembos, your brakes dont fade. Im suprised the stock shitty AE86 brakes didnt fade.

Gumtape deathmatch is BS. Lets analyze the name. Ok, it sounds BS.

Who drives, down a mountain pass, with a manual car, with 1 hand taped to the wheel?? Fucking suicide.
Then again, he raced a Civic, so i belive takumi could have won IRL.

Autocross is the correct term, genius. Gymkhana is the trendy JDM name countries use to sound cool.

Never mind the gymkahana, you go round a few turns more than once during your run, and you need to incorporate some drift into your driving techniques.

Lets analyze your SN. Drift AE92..as far as Im concerned, youre a wannabe FF drift. I may not have my own car, but at least my dads car is RWD, so I have somewhat more credibility.

Im no pro drifter, but at least I dont claim to be a freakin expert from watching a cartoon.

In short, Initial D as entertainment= :)
Initial D as a guide to drifting= :(

Now watch somebody say a no hands drift is unrealistic.I have seen Chunky Bai pull one off,amazing to see.And Initial D is realistic for the most part.People are saying Takumi's skill is way too good,well have you ever seen Kenshiro Gushi.He is 16,in D1,and can drift better than most of the people you look up to.He is also extremely fast.


Ive seen chunky bai do that. I have video of it. But its a p-lot not a mountain pass!!

Also, Ken gushi drives an S13. Thats waaaaay different than an AE86. Ask anyone whos driven and drifter both, sucessfully. Theyll tell ya drifting an AE86 is 10x more diffucult than an S13.

AE86 has a short wheelbase, no power and twitchy handling. You gotta ebrake, and clutch kick to get the back out, which can get hairy.

S13 has a nice looooong wheelbase, so the thing just sliiides right through, and the KA has plenty of torque to get the back out.

Why are we even debating this!?! Some people will refuse to belive its not real, but theyll prob. die while trying to imitate it, in which Ill nominate them for a darwin award.

If we all tried imittaing Superman, we would die from leaping off skycrapers and dodging bullets right.