Blindspot/BGE Sideview mirror Issues

I have employed the blind-spot glare elimination (BGE) method of setting car side-view mirrors now for over twenty years. It is the prevailing mirror-setting technique in Europe, and is making some inroads here in North America. Here are several sources on how to achieve it:

From a well-respected driving enthusiast magazine:

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15131074/how-to-adjust-your-mirrors-to-avoid-blind-spots/

And from NHTSA themselves:

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/blindzoneglaremirrormethod.pdf

I am quite used to it by now, but occasionally, I do "lose" a vehicle from the combined mirrors. I'm not talking about a Harley or a Schwinn - I'm talking a ten-wheel box truck(think Penske) in one instance, and most recently, a 2010-ish Honda Pilot!

I followed, to the letter, the technique outlined in the links to both above sources. Yet at least once per month, I find myself either honked at from the adjacent lane on an interstate, or, glancing left in the nick of time to see a rather large vehicle in the lane I am attempting to merge into, and have to yank the wheel evasively to avoid swapping paint.

My wife, a relatively conservative driver as am I, uses the traditional/American? mirror method: "three
rear-views" essentially, and told me she has never had an issue with changing lanes or merging on highways.

Please review the BGE setting methods outlined in both links above, and provide some insight as to why, occasionally, I "lose" vehicles many times the size of a two wheeler while merging or changing lanes!

Alright - weekend's up! :D

You've had plenty of time to read and think about my problem with the side mirrors, lol!

Is it something I missed, or is it some other factors?

What'd I do...?

Did I offend somebody?

....

I can't believe a simple question about mirror setting got no response on a forum about CARS.

Maybe I'll share my question on a forum about gardening!

My only comment was going to be it sounds like either you should go back to the "traditional" way or let your wife do all the driving. Those don't feel like value-added comments though.

I have a system that works for me when daily driving and when towing my camper so I didn't even bother to look at the links provided.

-Rod

My only comment was going to be it sounds like either you should go back to the "traditional"
way or let your wife do all the driving. Those don't feel like value-added comments though.

I have a system that works for me when daily driving and when towing my
camper so I didn't even bother to look at the links provided.

-Rod

Well, the links provided were legit, and included the two most common ways drivers set their side view mirrors.

In the attached image, I have my mirrors set as on the right - the "BGE". And somehow, I still did not notice a 2010 Honda Pilot - a relatively large and long vehicle - until the last split second, and yanked my steering wheel and car back into the merge lane until they had passed me.

The diagram shows by doing it "the right way" you create a blind spot.

Being the design came off of reddit it's not surprising if it is some kind of troll post. The reason people do it the common way, is because it works. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The diagram shows by doing it "the right way" you create a blind spot.

Being the design came off of reddit it's not surprising if it is some kind of
troll post. The reason people do it the common way, is because it works.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Then hundreds of millions of people who use the BGE method - people in Europe, Asia, and South America - must be "trolls" also! The Porsche 911s, Honda Accords, and Mercedes S-classes they drive over there must be totally different than the same model years of those cars sold here, if most Americans set their mirrors up for 3x rear-view.

The blindspot created via BGE is much smaller than the total blindspot created by American-style mirror adjustment.

Fellow Americans: open your minds, and open the link above from the National Highway Transportation and Safety Admin. itself.

The correct method worked best, as I recall, in cars I drove from the 1990s(my 1996 Ford Contour(Mondeo in Europe)), and 2000s(my wife's Toyota Corolla). With my 2008 Kia Optima and newer vehicles, it has become more difficult to achieve BGE, owing probably to the positioning of the side view mirrors on those newer cars.

From the NHTSA link:

Yet you are losing entire vehicles using this method?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Yet you are losing entire vehicles using this method?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


Again: In more recent vehicles, such as my 2010 Accord.

It's the placement of the mirrors on that car. Several inches more outboard of the door sheetmetal than they might have been on my 1996 Contour or the 2004 Corolla.

Someone on another forum said it might be the difference of our heights: he was well over 6 feet tall and sits further back than I do, at just 5' 7". So this issue might be a combination of me being a relatively short guy, combined with modern - mostly folding - mirrors which by necessity must be positioned further out from the car body to accommodate the folding feature(manual or electric).

I don't know if I shared this here, but there is a reason why Jaguar(and other overseas car makers) mounted the side
view mirrors where they did on this car:

https://ccmarketplace.azureedge.net/cc-temp/listing/87/6342/1283501-1960-jaguar-xk150-std.jpg

I didn't click on the links. How about using common sense to set mirrors?

Rear view centered to rear.

Side views set so that an overtaking vehicle transitions from the rear view to the side view then to peripheral vision. When passing another vehicle the same in reverse.

If you're "losing" a 10-wheel box truck your mirrors ain't even close to where they need to be. So until you have them set right, try taking a look over your shoulder.

I didn't click on the links. How about using common sense to set mirrors?

Rear view centered to rear.

Side views set so that an overtaking vehicle transitions from the rear view to the
side view then to peripheral vision. When passing another vehicle the same in reverse.

If you're "losing" a 10-wheel box truck your mirrors ain't even close to where they need
to be. So until you have them set right, try taking a look over your shoulder.

Not even a link from NHTSA, a federal agency?

What you describe is what Blindspot-glare elimination is supposed to achieve:

From the drivers seat, lean left until your head touches side glass(while parked of course). Turn the left mirror outward until you see a sliver of the side of your vehicle.

Next, lean right until your head is over your armrest/center console. Turn the right side mirror outward until it also shows just a sliver of your vehicle's side.

Now, seated normally in the drivers seat, you should see none of your own vehicle in the side view mirrors.

Vehicles passing you on either side should transition from rear view to either side view, in the manner you described.

Do you realize what you are saying? You are saying this is "the right way" but I lose large trucks, you all are crazy for not following it, even though it doesn't work.

Are you trying to convince us its great? Or are you trying to convince yourself its great because it's different?

Do you realize what you are saying? You are saying this is "the right way" but I lose large trucks, you all are crazy for not following it, even though it doesn't work.

Are you trying to convince us its great? Or are you trying to convince yourself its great because it's different?

Neither.

I'm trying to find out why I'M having trouble with a mirror setting technique - used by most people around the world - in cars from model year 2010 to present.

So in other words you're trying to convince yourself it's great even though it obviously doesn't work.

So in other words you're trying to convince yourself
it's great even though it obviously doesn't work.

For ME.

I cannot speak for the millions of drivers in Europe, Asia, and yes, in America, for whom it does work.

Listen, I'm not one of the spam bots who I dutifully report and clog your inboxes with.

I think we are just talking past each other here: using different terminology to describe, and achieve, exactly the same side-view mirror configuration as each other.

I don't know what BGE("blindspot-glare elimination") is called in other parts of this world, but that's what it's called here, in North America. And I have provided links and images from those links describing how it is done, and approximately what the view through said mirror setup should approximate, which you and others have willfully refused to look at.

Fundamentally, unless you drive a truck or coach, with multiple mirrors on each side of it, you should not see any part of your own car in your SIDE-view mirrors when they are set correctly. From a drivers perspective, vehicles of most any size or shape, should transition between one side view mirror or the other, and the rearview, just as you yourself described in post #11.

I think our conversation is being bogged down in semantics, choice of word usage here. I would have nothing to gain, nor would sense any joy, in jerking your's or anyone's chain here, even if you choose to believe that's what I'm doing.

There's no semantics. It clearly doesn't work, so work with what works.

I spend a fair amount of time towing either my camper or my enclosed trailer. I would certainly argue that having my mirrors set so that I can't see any of the sides of my vehicle would NOT be "correct." There would be many opportunities for cutting corners too sharp and catching curbs or objects close to me when making turns in tight spaces. And the fancy wheels on my car mean a lot to me and I want to be able to tell where there are at when turning corners or parking. With the way I choose to set my mirrors, I have yet to damage a wheel, hit a pole or building, or nearly run others (bicyclists, motorcyclists, cars, or medium-class SUVs) off the roads. So I'm going to stick what works for me, and apparently for those I share the roads with.

-Rod

I spend a fair amount of time towing either my camper or my
enclosed trailer. I would certainly argue that having my
mirrors set so that I can't see any of the sides of my vehicle would
NOT be "correct." There would be many opportunities for cutting
corners too sharp and catching curbs or objects close to me when
making turns in tight spaces. And the fancy wheels on my car
mean a lot to me and I want to be able to tell where there are at
when turning corners or parking. With the way I choose to set my
mirrors, I have yet to damage a wheel, hit a pole or building, or
nearly run others (bicyclists, motorcyclists, cars, or medium-class
SUVs) off the roads. So I'm going to stick what works for me,
and apparently for those I share the roads with.

-Rod

Well, I did mention in #16 that if one drives a long vehicle, a combo or semi or such, then both wide and inward angled mirrors would be necessary.

But for most vehicles smaller than a Suburban or Expedition, the technique of setting them so no part of the vehicle appears in the side view mirrors is correct, or at minimum, recommended.

They are called SIDE-VIEW for a reason - to be able to see vehicles alongside yours, not for seeing the sides of your own car. If you prefer your own sheetmetal to occupy the inboard thirds of your side mirrors, then prepare to do a lot of neck craning and head turning to make sure nobody is in the lane you wish to move into, unless you have Dale Earnhardt-level peripheral vision.

But hey, if "three-rear-views" rocks your world, more power to ya. I'll be able to tell your mirrors are such if you almost merge into the side of my car, and I honk at you.

The only reason I started this thread was because I was having issues with it in newer cars. It could be my shorter than average stature, or how far out the mirrors are on newer cars.

And since the day I started this thread, I haven't lost any vehicles between inside and outside mirrors. Like I said, it happens maybe 3-4 times per year to me, and ironically, not involving something as small as a motorcycle or bicycle. Fortunately, my reflexes are good, and I'm able to swerve clear in those rare cases.

They are called SIDE-VIEW for a reason - to be able to see vehicles alongside yours, not for seeing the sides of your own car. If you prefer your own sheetmetal to occupy the inboard thirds of your side mirrors, then prepare to do a lot of neck craning and head turning to make sure nobody is in the lane you wish to move into

I don't have them set to where 1/3 of my side-mirror, but I do have them set to where I can just see the side of my vehicle and still see if there are vehicles beside me. I was taught during Driver's Education that a responsible driver should ALWAYS glance beside them before changing lanes anyway, which I still do to this day. So between being able to see what's directly beside me, checking my BLIS LED in my side mirror, and taking a quick look over my shoulder before changing lanes, I feel I've got things pretty well covered. I also maintain a reasonably safe following distance from the vehicle in front of me which provides time to take a quick look over the shoulder.

I'll be able to tell your mirrors are such if you almost merge into the side of my car, and I honk at you.

Based on your own admission, it sounds like setting the mirrors to this "recommended" method is likely to cause someone (in a vehicle the size of a Honda Pilot even) to earn a honk when changing lanes. In my 32 years of driving I don't recall EVER having someone honk at me when changing lanes. And while the roads are never all that congested where I live, I've also driving in large, busy areas while on business travel and vacations. I was also taught in Driver's Education to continually scan the mirrors to know where the vehicles are around me and to always leave myself an out. I think that helps offset the chances of trying to change lanes into one that's already occupied. Of course many younger driver's seem to spend more time scanning their phones than their mirrors....

Speaking of big cities, one more reason to NOT set your mirrors to where none of the side of your vehicle appears in them would be so you can see if someone is coming up along side your vehicle on foot while at a stop. I'd prefer to have a pedestrian catch the attention of my peripheral vision from a side-view mirror, especially since I prefer to drive with my windows down when the weather permits rather than closed up with the A/C on.

The only reason I started this thread was because I was having issues with it in newer cars. It could be my shorter than average stature, or how far out the mirrors are on newer cars.

What do you consider a "newer car?" My newest car is a 2018 so maybe you're referring to something much newer than that. The only times I drive something newer than that is when on business travel and I have a rental. But there there is some much that's different and distracting (vehicle, traffic, not knowing where I'm going) that I likely wouldn't notice the impact from smaller or oddly placed side-view mirrors. But if anything, I'd say the mirrors on my 2018 might even be wider than the mirrors on the 2013 that it replaced and on my son's 2004. My daughter has an SUV so that's not really a fair comparison, and my 2014 Ram has factory towing mirrors with the extra convex portion so I'm not considering those either.

And since the day I started this thread, I haven't lost any vehicles between inside and outside mirrors. Like I said, it happens maybe 3-4 times per year to me, and ironically, not involving something as small as a motorcycle or bicycle. Fortunately, my reflexes are good, and I'm able to swerve clear in those rare cases.
I think it's safe to say that if your research and Google haven't helped you figure out if you're missing a nuance to the "recommended" settings, the folks who have so far responded here are not going to be able to point it out either. Stick with what you feel works for you and I'll do the same.

-Rod

I don't have them set to where 1/3 of my side-mirror, but I do have them set to where I can just see the side of my vehicle and still see if there are vehicles beside me. I was taught during Driver's Education that a responsible driver should ALWAYS glance beside them before changing lanes anyway, which I still do to this day. So between being able to see what's directly beside me, checking my BLIS LED in my side mirror, and taking a quick look over my shoulder before changing lanes, I feel I've got things pretty well covered. I also maintain a reasonably safe following distance from the vehicle in front of me which provides time to take a quick look over the shoulder.



Based on your own admission, it sounds like setting the mirrors to this "recommended" method is likely to cause someone (in a vehicle the size of a Honda Pilot even) to earn a honk when changing lanes. In my 32 years of driving I don't recall EVER having someone honk at me when changing lanes. And while the roads are never all that congested where I live, I've also driving in large, busy areas while on business travel and vacations. I was also taught in Driver's Education to continually scan the mirrors to know where the vehicles are around me and to always leave myself an out. I think that helps offset the chances of trying to change lanes into one that's already occupied. Of course many younger driver's seem to spend more time scanning their phones than their mirrors....

Speaking of big cities, one more reason to NOT set your mirrors to where none of the side of your vehicle appears in them would be so you can see if someone is coming up along side your vehicle on foot while at a stop. I'd prefer to have a pedestrian catch the attention of my peripheral vision from a side-view mirror, especially since I prefer to drive with my windows down when the weather permits rather than closed up with the A/C on.



What do you consider a "newer car?" My newest car is a 2018 so maybe you're referring to something much newer than that. The only times I drive something newer than that is when on business travel and I have a rental. But there there is some much that's different and distracting (vehicle, traffic, not knowing where I'm going) that I likely wouldn't notice the impact from smaller or oddly placed side-view mirrors. But if anything, I'd say the mirrors on my 2018 might even be wider than the mirrors on the 2013 that it replaced and on my son's 2004. My daughter has an SUV so that's not really a fair comparison, and my 2014 Ram has factory towing mirrors with the extra convex portion so I'm not considering those either.


I think it's safe to say that if your research and Google haven't helped you figure out if you're missing a nuance to the "recommended" settings, the folks who have so far responded here are not going to be able to point it out either. Stick with what you feel works for you and I'll do the same.

-Rod

Newer/more recent: 2010 to present model year I suppose.

Although I did start to have trouble with the method that two-thirds of world drivers use to set mirrors with my 2008 Kia Optima. That's when most car sideview mirrors were of the folding variety, and were positioned the length of a basketball court out from the driver and front passenger side windows..! (not quite that far out, but you got your own mind!)

And as I repeatedly said, I don't "lose" vehicles every time with the setup, just maybe once per month or a few times per year.

It might just be that I'm not seeing the vehicle until just after it has transitioned through all of my mirrors, and admittedly I don't have the best peripheral vision out there, like the aforementioned late great Dale Earnhardt.