1999 Windstar REM Question

A local mechanic told me that the source of battery drain in my vehicle was the Rear Electronic Module. I know these modules are vehicle specific and need to be flashed. He said they have the tools to flash them but that they need a "new" module from Ford and were having difficulty finding one. Yet I see many used ones on eBay.

Does anybody know, without a doubt, what the story is on these REM's? Can they be flashed or is the flash a one-time operation. Can these modules be repaired? Is there any service out there that will repair or replace these?

I've never heard of this problem ... that doesn't mean much, but I have heard of excessive battery drains caused by the rear window wiper not nesting properly ... and that is probably fed through the REM.

Yes, I read about that issue as well as a host of similar issues. I usually work on my own cars but as I get older, I more readily defer to local mechanics. Plus, this is my grandson's vehicle and I really don't want to get intimate with it.

Here is the situation. The alternator had an obvious on-the-road failure. I had the car towed to a local shop where they confirmed the alternator so it was replaced along with a new battery. I'll add that the shop is normally a good one. They have always diagnosed and fixed what I brought them, usually without a lot of BS and I have trusted their work through my experience with them.

After 3 days, the car was used on a 60 mile trip and then parked for 1-1/2 hours. The battery died, so I took it back in and let them check it out in case either the new alt or bat was bad. The mechanic had it for 3 days and finally pronounced that it had a drain associated with the REM but then could not get a new one from Ford for whatever reason. We needed the car back so he said as long as we disconnected the battery when not in use. Meanwhile they would look for a new REM.

When I told him I could get a used REM off eBay with the same exact serial number, he informed me that these cannot be reprogrammed. I'm not sure that passes the BS smell test. My own research indicates that these need to initialized and programmed (vehicle specific) but I cannot confirm whether we can take any old REM, re-initialize it and reprogram it for this vehicle. I am hoping somebody in the know can answer the specific question.

However, the car just returned from another 60 mile run and immediately after turning it off, we tried to start it. The battery was dead again. So I cannot rule out that the new alt or bat is not bad. I removed the positive lead off the battery and measured the current draw between the battery post and battery lead. As soon as I hook up the ammeter, I draw 2 amps, some relays in the fuse box click and the current eventually settles to 1 amp draw with everything off and doors closed. So I disconnected all the leads to the REM and nothing changes. This indicates the REM is probably NOT the source of the drain, but I don't know this car well enough (yet) to make that claim.

Thus, it looks like my work is cut out for me unless someone who is more familiar with this vehicle can point me toward another cause.

You may want to invest in an electrical diagram book for your exact model ... prob $100 or so ... and worth every penny, I think. Easy to follow.

.... as a first guess, I would pull all 4 of the power relays to see what happens with each. You can locate the relays if you have owners manual.

Thx for the info. We just finished going through the engine compartment fuse panel and confirmed that 4 fuses had some voltage drop and two of these were related to the SSP#3 and SSP#4 relays. One was a massive leak.

I found some other posts on the subject. Two top contenders are for a TSB regarding PCM reprogram and bad wiring under the carpet near the driver's seat. One other post I read on another forum mentioned that wire chaffing and corrosion on this model is a common occurrence.

I have wiring diagrams on the way.

I doubt seriously that the REM is responsible at this point, since I can completely disconnect it and the drain remains.

You are on the right path ... measuring those fuse test points can show a lot. Pulling those SSP's is a good start for dividing and conquering.
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Yes, this model does have chafing issues ... not all cars, but some, on the main engine powertrain harness ... against the firewall.

... and relay contacts can burn and get "sticky" ... not falling "out" as they should.

I am almost 100% certain both the new battery and new alternator are working.

I don't have wiring diagrams yet and don't expect to for another 4 or 5 days so I am working blind here. However, the journey has begun. I have stripped all the panels out under the steering column and have pretty good access. At least Ford made that easy to do. I did not find anything obvious except one small abraded wire that could short out but not really anything nearby that it could short to. I also found another wire that was installed post-manufacture. One of the crimp connectors had pulled out so I suspect I have another wire with a bare end sticking out somewhere that could possibly short. This looks like some DIY radio cable but it was late and I haven't found the bad splice or even what this wire goes to. A mystery to be followed up on to be sure.

Beyond that, I was dismayed to find that the major chassis cable is routed along the left side of the vehicle by the driver's seat under a metal shield that appears to be riveted into place. Part of the cable breaks out and runs toward the center of the car just in front of the driver's seat and is very tight against the edge of the metal cover. Possible abrasion point? I don't know and don't what to start drilling out rivets until I can convince myself the issue is in that cable somewhere.

So there is not much I can do until I some detailed wiring diagrams and time to work the issue next week.

BTW, the Haynes book is totally useless as far as wiring diagrams are concerned. The are either typical circuits or not detailed enough. The post 1998 circuits don't indicate the REM as part of the circuit and the text does not even mention the REM. For that matter, none of the modules except the PCM is shown in any detail. The color coded wires don't agree with what is actually in the vehicle. Oh well, that's $26 wasted at least for the circuits.

I always post my findings when I solve a problem and this will be now different if I conclusively nail it down.

Haynes is a good book for mechanical references. The electrical diagram is too complex for such a small book ... and the circuitry may change from year to year. Haynes should just omit this section.
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The chafing I'm familiar with is under hood and influenced by engine motion. The powertrain harness, on some few units, got routed differently or something ... and can rub against the firewall. This is about a foot or so away from the PCM unit.

FYI

Motorcraft offers rental of a complete manual set. You can pay for a few days, a month, or a year. A month is less than $25 dollars. I've used them, particularly before I purchase my own hard copy, and found that it was a more complete manual (plus all TSBs) than the one I purchased for >$100.

Regarding your approach, I agree that you're taking the right path to find the problem. The only advise I can offer is (1) use a current meter if you have one. It will give clearer results. A clamp on dc meter is nice (and an expensive tool!) because you don't have to break the circuit to insert it, but you can use a regular ammeter across the fuse terminals to find out where the current is flowing. (2) If possible, use the divide-and-conqure approach. You'll home in the cause more quickly that way.

Well, tnut55, you've put a hex on me. I have recently started having the same symptoms...some heavy electrical drain during shutdown. Failed alternator ... I assume due to overload. I find SSP4 always energized ... and SSP3 never energized ... so, I suspect some heavy-current damage/insulation damage somewhere. ?? And this is all at 370+kmiles.
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Stay tuned ... I've just begun.

Well, maybe we can help each other out.

I received my Ford DVD and the wiring diagrams are excellent. I went back to basics and started pulling fuses. I found that fuses 103, 108, 109 and 114 were contributing almost equal amounts to the total drain. These feed the coils to SSP4, SSP2, SSP1 and SSP3 in that order.

The drain persists when completely removing the REM from the vehicle through all 4 relay coils. There is a splice through C180 that ties all 4 coils together. Breaking this connection removes 2 coils out of the circuit, leaving only the drain though SSP1 and SSP2 coils and this goes to the FEM. So unless there is something going on that I just don't understand, I think I can rule out the REM the technician said was bad.

However, the focus has now shifted to the FEM. I started removing things from that circuit to see if I could isolate the drain to the FEM or to one of the circuits it feeds. Then all hell broke loose with relays quickly cycling on/off when I plugged one of the connectors back in. From there, not much made any sense. BUT, I think that since I had been working on the car all afternoon, I may have run into a low battery condition and things just were not normal. So that's where I stopped for the evening and started charging the battery again. I hope the low battery condition is the culprit.

Anyway, I removed the FEM completely from the vehicle and opened it up just to see if there were any "cooked" components or other abnormalities. All looks pristine. I just LOVE working under the dash, don't you?

Tomorrow, I'll start back with the FEM. The plan was to hook the main cable that runs from the relay coils in only and see what the drain does. I am hoping I can rule out the FEM as the source and point to a different offending circuit. I hope all the crazy relay cycling does not return or I'll be lost.

Well, I did nothing today ... other tasks more urgent.
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Sounds like you are on the right trail. Though our damaged areas may be similar ... we have slightly different symptoms. Currently, only SSP4 has a drain in my case, and the coil feed to SSP3 is "open".
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Yeah, working under the dash is just peachy ... I'm a big boy. May remove the driver's seat as a starter.

Yes, I noted our symptoms were not exactly the same. And yes, I am big too and that seat is in the way. So far, I have not ripped it out but it is a temptation.

Supposing I need a new FEM, I know I can get one off eBay. I am concerned whether or not it needs to be programmed. The technician said it does because of the security, key fob and other issues but he also said a used one cannot be reprogrammed; that it must be new. I can't seem to find definitive answers.

There are only three items .... any of the three being replaced, that will require a reprogram at the dealer (or so I think I know!): The instrument panel, the PCM module, and the PATS (the security gizmo that reads the key transponder ... and looks like an old style hearing aid), that nest about the key tumbler.
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Nothing else.
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But if makes little sense to me that either the FEM or the REM will cause the drains. Think about it .... if the FEM or REM caused any of the relays to energize erroneously ... you should see or hear something ... some lights, some door locks, some wipers ... something ... the kinds of loads that would be noticeable and might take a good while to drain a full battery. I think we have high loads ... and perhaps on the wrong sides of the fuses ... shorts. Of course, that could happen inside the module ... but I'm doubting it.

I bit the bullet and ordered a used FEM off eBay with the same number. I'm hoping that a new box may at least cure the drain. From what I surmise, the box can be programmed with the latest updates directly from Ford and the old box does not necessarily need to be read and the old data uploaded. My neighbor says his shop has the ability to do that. I guess we will see. Stay tuned.

What do I know? ... not much!
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I finally got re-started on my repair project today, uncovered the FEM and REM modules ... each have a note on the printed, paste-on label: "This is a programmable part."
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I assume that this has to do with different trim levels and different country requirements ... but do not know for sure. I would expect if the replaced unit does not work as it should, the dealer can reprogram based just on VIN number .... but I'm guessing away!

Well, after unplugging the feeds at the FEM and the REM, SSP4 still "lifts" as soon as it is plugged in ... but none of the other power relays do this. I think I have a wiring issue at the base of the relays....

All 4 of my relays close and start draining the battery as soon as the battery connection is made and stay in that position until the battery drains to a point where it cannot hold the relays down. I can completely unplug the REM and the drain persists through all 4.

The connector just above the FEM (C180M/F) ties the 4 relay coils together. Severing that then eliminates the drain through SSPR3,4.

Pulling BJB fuse 2 (FEM VBATT1) will ultimately stop the drain. I've done a lot more things to disconnect potential exterior drains from the FEM but everything points to the FEM as the source of the drain. This is odd because it only appears to be happening when VBATT1 is provided power; almost like powering the FEM drives logic in the box to energize the 4 relay coils. I still have not figured out where all that power is going.

As I said, even with power removed from FEM and REM, the SSP4 was still lifting. So I did a check to ground on #1330 YE/LB (which happens to be connector C180!) ... I found around 10K + ohm ... enough to lift the relay, I suppose.
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So I removed the driver's seat, the knee stop plate, etc., for working room. I found a plastic harness protector, under driver's left foot, under the carpet and padding ...broken. F88B-14A099-AB. This allows unintended downward force on the large harness right where it turns to follow the top of the rocker panel toward the rear.
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Loosening and moving the relay/fuse panel would cause the ground fault to be briefly lost. I suspect I am going to find some force-damage on the connectors behind the relay/fuse panel ... but, I quit for the day.

I think we have different things going on for sure but we are both doing all the same things to find the cause.

When you say "lifting" are you saying a short is allowing the relay to energize or an open circuit is preventing the relay from energizing?

The relay is energizing... through a short, I am assuming.
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I have now removed FEM and REM and relay/fuse panel ... the short persists!
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I scanned the circuitry and found a total of eight circuits that use YE/LB insulation coloring. A chance for confusion, I suspect.
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The broken plastic harness cover is not avail through Ford ... obsolete.

I feel for you man!

Having received the new (recycled) FEM from eBay, the wrong number I might add, I plugged it in anyway and the drain persists. I guess some of those eBay vendors don't read their own ads as they were selling a box beginning with XFT and actually shipped a YFT box. The rest of the numbers are the same. The new box has the same verbage regarding programming whereas my old boxes do not.

I am now thinking short in the power circuits somewhere before the FEM. I guess all be running the same YE/LB wire...lol.

I'm about convinced that I've started chasing "ghosts"! By pulling SSP1 and SSP2, (remember, SSP3, SSP4, FEM, REM, and the inside fuse/relay panel are removed.) I can find no more "shorts" ... of any degree on #1330 YE/LB.
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Whatever short I had, I cannot find anymore ... so I'm "going back together" tomorrow and see what happens. But I have done some cleaning and lubricating of electrical connections, ... fuse and relay bases. So some good was done I suppose.

12Ounce...did you get your car back together?

I gave up on mine, put it all back together and took it to my neighbor's shop. Before I left for the shop, I checked once again to make sure the drain was still there and it was.

Wouldn't you know it, they said they can't find any problem nor excessive load. They do see about 700ma drain instead of the 5.5amps I was seeing.

So we reviewed the sequence of symptoms from the start and they are questioning the new battery since nothing was wrong with the car until the alternator failed and was replaced along with the battery. I don't think I convinced them that the 5.5amps was real. It even had me second guessing myself until I remembered that the test leads were getting warm when I measured the ground return circuit to the battery through the ammeter.

They still have the car so we shall see what they find.

No, not back together yet ... too many distractions. The last I saw of the 10K "short" on conductor #1330 ... was only on the harness that went through the firewall to the battery fuse panel. There was no short of any degree on the same conductor on the cabin harness ... this was a big surprise. Then I lost it altogether ... but if it ever shows again, I kinda know what area it is in.
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Keep in mind that there are some loads that are kept on for several seconds after ignition shut off ... so you don't want to measure loads during that period. Keep in mind also, that the FEM has loads that may not be switched ... such as temperature sensors, etc. ... so as long as a SSP relay's contact conducts ... there is a load. Also.... there may be a drain that is not being switched by the relay .... it may be internal to the relay itself!

As the promised follow-up to my original problem, I reassembled all that I had taken apart and verified that the drain (5.5amps) was still present.

After driving the car to the shop, the problem went away and has yet to return. In the end, the only addition is a battery jump pack, just in case.

Interesting! So are you back on the original FEM? Are the four SSP's still being energized without the key being on?
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I still chasing, but not very energetically.

I just posted in an old revived thread (regarding battery drain) so you may see that response since you posted to that thread as well.

I can't answer about the relays since I have not gone back and checked them since the car "healed" itself for the past 5 days. The second shop could not find anything wrong. The car repaired itself on the drive there after I had given up. They could only see a 70ma drain max and after 3 days gave it back to me no charge. They were suspicious about the new battery although they admitted that it would not cause the drain I was seeing.

It failed again yesterday after my grandson stopped to get gas. Somebody gave him a jump and he drove it home, where it has started OK by itself ever since. It sat idle overnight and started fine again this morning. I do know the new alternator is working since we did not do any charging and the drive from the gas station was a short one.

So I'd rather not chase phantoms again. The last shop offered a loaner battery to rule out the new battery. I have not taken them up on this offer yet. With exception of the battery drain I consistently measured while I was troubleshooting the car, a battery with intermittent internal shorts would explain the problem. But a lot of other things would as well.

We have purchased a jump box and I am taking a wait and see attitude, noting the precise symptoms when the problems occur to see if there is a common thread.

Regarding the FEM and REM, I purchased the FEM off eBay and the sent me the wrong serial number. The tag on the new box says something about programming whereas the old one does not. They are going to replace it with the right box but I don't believe either box is an issue. I did put the new box in just to see if it cured the drain which it did not. Nothing changed. The SSPR's activated as usual and the current draw was the same. So as it is, I am running the original boxes.

Hope you find your drain. Remember, it can also be internal to the alternator ... had one of those cause me some miseries once.
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My Winny is somewhat back together and running. Could be my biggest/single problem was the failing alternator (changed) all along. I kept separating the harness and trying to isolate the "ground" ... the engine box harness was totally clear. The cabin harness, totally unloaded, got down to 140K ohm ... not clean, but probably good enough. I've decided to see if it gets worse as time goes by (probably will!).
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I wonder where that connector is that folks were having corrosion issues with? My wiring diagram book is pre-double-sliding doors .... so it shows no connector in front of the seats. I took a quick peak under the carpet and I did not see it. ??

Remove the relays from their sockets, if possible. Also, if the relays are interdependent, (i.e one can trigger another) try removing them in patterns that can help isolate the problem. When relay has been removed, try to find the root cause that would energize the coil.

In my '96 there is only a "GEM" (Generic Electronic Module). It is not programmable. Several years ago I had an intermittent issue where the power windows would not work and the door locks would spontaneously switch. I traced the problem to a specific pin on one of the integrated circuits in the GEM. I re-flowed the solder on each pin on that circuit and it has worked fine ever since. I presume a solder joint was defective.

Another possibility is bad ground connections. If the modules are not properly grounded (connected back to the battery negative), then the electronics will misbehave. Because the circuits are sensitive, a small voltage error in the ground can go a long way to causing unexpected behavior.

Yes, 12ounce. We have new symptoms today. On a long drive, the BAT light faded in and out. It has bothered me that the brand new alternator was only producing 13.5v max. So we'll discount what we have done so far and go back to basics and not assume that because they are new, the alternator or battery are good.

In any case, I took the car back to the shop again today. I hope it has not magically "healed" itself again. Hmmm...maybe an exorcism???

Well, at least you may be finding the final/real problem. I asked in the other string if you had had the new alternator bench-tested. I have learned the hard lesson that this is a good practice.

The second shop replaced both the alternator and battery on a trial basis. They are going to let me drive around in it until I (my grandson) feels comfortable with it or until it fails again.

They had it 3 more days trying to get it to fail which it would not (after the replacement). So we are going to see what happens.

BTW, I have seen a recurring theme about the high brake light bulbs being included in the battery drain issue so I replaced them. What came out was not pretty. All 3 bulbs had acquired a mirrored finish internally . Two for sure had burned out. Now, I cannot understand in any way why these would cause a battery drain but they needed to be replaced anyway.

Remember that all exterior lamps get a constant 12 volt supply ... and are switched on by the negative/body-ground side. So all you have to have is a shorted lamp base to have constant leakage. The lamp does not have to be "visibly on" ... you can have leakage through the base bypassing the lamp filament.

That might make sense. It appears these bulbs are subjected to extreme heat. One was physically deformed making it hard to pull back through the plastic fixture. All were shiny with the tungsten filament being redeposited inside the glass envelope. The bases themselves looked fine as did the wiring.

We did not have any issues Day 1 after the second alt/bat have been installed. Just waiting for the shoe to drop.

Tomorrow will be one week since I put our '99 back together. My kids then immediately borrowed it for a 1700 mile vacation trip. They still have it. So far, no problems.

I'm on day two with the second alternator. So far, no problems.

Not to hijack this thread but now I have to fix the power window so my grandson can roll down at least the driver window. The passenger window is out too but both these were out long before the current problems. I think there are enough resources to describe how to repair this.

The A/C is low on freon as well. The discharge hose that runs at the bottom and just behind the radiator (with the high pressure switch) is covered with oily grime so I think there may be a leak there. Fortunately, I have a local company that can swedge new hoses for a fraction of the cost (if I could even find one) of a new hose assembly. I am hoping any leaks are minor because I have enough on my plate already.

There is also some ticking at about 1 sec intervals that sounds like a relay clicking behind the center console. I can feel its vibration at the A/C plenum. I can't find any evidence of a relay in that area, I hope it is just some manifestation of the A/C cycling on and off.

I wish I had my 2000 Isuzu Rodeo still (wife totaled it 6 months ago). It had similar functionality as this Windstar but was engineered much better, had very few failures and was a lot easier to troubleshoot. I stopped buying Fords since the 80's after I had my fill. This Windstar seems highly over-egineered. And don't even get me started on GM products. NEVER AGAIN!

I'm about to replace that hose assembly, that you are referring too, but on a '97 Tracer. I had filled the system with refrigerant ... then to notice oil dripping out of the hose at the "can". I bought an entire hose assembly .... not too bad in price... from Advance Auto on line. They often run discount specials that help to reduce costs.

The saga continues. The BAT light started fading in/out as the car is driven although we went almost a week this time. It seems like there may be a correlation between wet weather and the symptoms appearing although the correlation is not a close one.

Now that the power windows and A/C are fixed, it would be a pretty good car if we could just find a definitive solution to the bat/alt issue.

I am going to take it back to the "pro's" again while there are symptoms present.

After a few weeks of letting me drive the car with their alternator/battery (second set), the BAT light continued to fade on/off randomly. However, the battery never completely let us down; we were always able to start the car. The shop decided we should change the voltage regulator. I don't know how they did this since the regulator is internal to the alternator from model years after 1999.

Whatever they did, it messed everything up and I am almost back to square one. I no longer think I have a short that keeps SSPR1,2,3,4 energized. Although I thought that in the beginning (and can't completely rule it out) the current situation is that battery drain drops to acceptable levels if the car is left alone long enough for the computers to turn off. So I am treating all this as phantom issues brought on by my unfamiliarity with the vehicle.

Now I am focusing in on the charging circuit. The best voltage I have seen out of new alternator 1 was 13.2 volts. New alternator 2 would produce up to 13.8 volts but drop to 13.2 volts after the car warmed up. After they "said" they replaced the VR in new alternator 2, I could only muster 11.5 volts and I can watch that drop as the battery drains while the car is running, faster if the headlights are turned on. In short, I don't believe this alternator is charging at all since they last worked on it last.

Fortunately, I still have new alternator 1 if needed.

If that alternator #1 could be bench tested and cleared, I would be inclined to change it out ... I get very concerned if I ever see less than 13.75 volts across battery while engine runs.

I have seen as high as 13.8v but it never lasts. I do not believe either new alternator or new battery was bad.

I see the charging voltage continually fall as the car warms up. I think something in the Smart Charge system is driving the regulator lower.

I have checked all the appropriate wires from the PCM to the regulator as well as the B+ circuit and have good insulation/continuity.

Both alternators have bench tested GOOD. I did not expect otherwise. I still have no solution but am waiting on some parts and diagnostic tool on order to arrive before I can proceed.

I am convinced that the issue is not some unusual current drain that was suspected after "professional" shop 1 diagnosed the REM. I do have a .7amp drain for 30 minutes until the computers shut down and then it is less than 50 milliamps.

Everything I observe points to the Smart Charge system which is described in detail in another thread. I have done basic insulation and continuity tests on suspect wiring but these were good. The A, I voltages I read on the 3 pin alternator connector are suspect, according to the Haynes book I have but these are pulse modulated waveforms not DC voltages so I don't completely believe the Haynes manual. I'll have to scope this out when the tool arrives.

My last post on the subject.

Decided to replace the starter motor because all through these weeks of travail, it seemed like only a fully charged battery could spin the starter motor. That just didn't seem right.

Serendipitous I'll admit, since I did not expect the starter motor to also be the cause of the "drain" or failure of the alternator to provide a suitable charging voltage.

Be that as it may, I now have 14.5v on cold start and 14.2v nominally at idle. After fully warmed up with a full load (max A/C, headlights, etc.) I still get 13.5v to 14v.

I suppose that maybe there was a drain through the motor or solenoid in STAR or RUN key positions. I didn't catch it and neither did the two "professional" shops I took the car to. Since many people have had the same symptoms with no solution, I'll post this solution anew under a different title.