AWD Drifting??

i kno AWD driftin is possible, but is it possible wit a Eclipse GSX? cuz my fwen said if u drift wit a car like that, u can break the axel or somthin, jus askin to see if its possible. Wut other AWD cars can drift too (any car) ??

I'd think it would be possible (difficult because of the increased grip and weight) but possible, but it would depend on the bias of the driveline.

Cars like the Lancer EVO, Eclipse and the 3000GT/Dodge Stealth (yes, all Diamond Star products, but they were all I could name off the top of my head) have transverse engines and therefore FF oriented drivetrains. The car's natural state is FF, but power is transferred to the rear wheels for better acceleration. Cars like the Skyline GTR, Subarus in general, and Stagea have lateral engines and are thusly FR oriented drivelines. The car's natural state is FR, but power is transferred to the front wheels for better grip and more neutral handling.

Thus, in an FR oriented AWD chassis, it's a matter of defeating the AWD system (if electronic as in the Skyline ATTESA-ETS) or readjusting the center differential to have a more rearward bias which could, if done properly, potentially mean for a sound and catchable drift car though not a very astounding one.

In an FF oriented AWD chassis, the rear diff can only receive as much power as the front transaxle can take and torque steer will occur far before power-on oversteer. This is why tuned EVOs are notably easier to drive fast (but have much more understeer) than tuned Imprezas.

To make a long story short, AWD drifting can be done (watch a tarmac round of the WRC for evidence) but it depends on the car the AWD was developed from and requires a vast rethink on the setup of the differentials or electronics.

No, eclipse has a FF-biased chassis and is heaier than your obese grandmas ass.

Get a Civic

Originally posted by Dorikin
No, eclipse has a FF-biased chassis and is heaier than your obese grandmas ass.

Get a Civic

please, take one step backwards so that you're on your side of the line again. now stay there.

it is possible to drift AWD, but i've heard it's harder. on RWD cars, you can simply disconnect the AWD system, although this might affect the car's handing in negative ways since it was set up to always be an AWD car.

somehow, i don't think drifting an Eclipse will get you many fans...but hey, anything's worth trying.

It's possible didn't the Jun Super Lemon Evo6 win some drifting competition about a year or so ago?

Ya but with a VCD, you can get a rearward torque bias.

The Eclipse is an FF bias, and the 4wd system isnt as intracate as the Lancer, where it allows for a 10/90 split between F/R


Eclipse is always FWD biased

You could always try a feint

thats how they usually drift Subaru's (stock ones at any rate)

eclipses arnt meant to drift especially a gsx, a gsx is ment to bust ass down the 1\4 mile or to be a really bad ass sleeper, not a drift car, you wana drift get a 240sx and add a turbo or to a sr swap and drift:icon16:

rwd is best when it comes to drifting...

my $0.02

1

Originally posted by turbo2nr
eclipses arnt meant to drift especially a gsx, a gsx is ment to bust ass down the 1\4 mile or to be a really bad ass sleeper, not a drift car, you wana drift get a 240sx and add a turbo or to a sr swap and drift

All that grip just to go down the 1/4mile? Don't you think that's a waste? The car is a great car to be biached around....it never hurts to try to drift it.....:cool:

I have a video of a WRX drifting at Ebisu. It's quite good but the car looks very temperamental. The driver has to come into the corners at very high speed otherwise the car gets traction and straightens up halfway through, he then slides off the track. It's cool that he's giving it a go though.

Originally posted by D33A


All that grip just to go down the 1/4mile? Don't you think that's a waste? The car is a great car to be biached around....it never hurts to try to drift it.....:cool:

Its heavy and FWD biased though...

The grip is great for 1/4 because you dont break traction and get a clean start when you've got an 11 second car *cough Supra cough*

They drifted the old rally cars...evo 1,2,3s and celica st165 and st185 in tarmac, snow, mud, rain....etc.... I'm pretty sure our 1995 awd systems and suspensions are better than those pre 95s. I think with some weight reduction, light weight rims with worn tires, sway bars, maybe a little more power, and with a lot of practice...we could drift our dsms. I have faith in our cars. All it takes is PRACTICE!

Originally posted by D33A
They drifted the old rally cars...evo 1,2,3s and celica st165 and st185 in tarmac, snow, mud, rain....etc.... I'm pretty sure our 1995 awd systems and suspensions are better than those pre 95s. I think with some weight reduction, light weight rims with worn tires, sway bars, maybe a little more power, and with a lot of practice...we could drift our dsms. I have faith in our cars. All it takes is PRACTICE!

Its not how advanced the system is, its the fact the Eclipse is a heavy car with an FWD Bias!!! Its just not worth it, its a HUGE double handicap

You can adjust how much power the front and rear wheels get so that means AN AWD DRIFTER!!! I heard you can put as much as 65% power to the rear wheels.

as far as i know, to drift a 4WD there would be zero counter (wheels straight ahead) and the power between front and rear would have to be equal. Like the JUN Yellow EVO.

just my opinion.

feint works.

Originally posted by ThaLegend
You can adjust how much power the front and rear wheels get so that means AN AWD DRIFTER!!! I heard you can put as much as 65% power to the rear wheels.

On the Eclipse? How so? Its an FWD-based chassis, therefore it needs an FWD-bias.

Why do you think they use the Evo for rally instead of the eclipse. Because the Lancer has its own seperate chassis for 4WD(not just the evo), and not some cobbled together AWD system.

Actually, the GSX has a 50/50 power split between the front and rear, and I've read that this is infinately variable through the central differential.
Now how's that for a "fwd bias" :lol:

A damn good FWD bias.

Im not knowledgable with regards to the DSM but ive heard that the cars have an FWD bias.

The eclipses are heavy though, and no LSD that Im aware of so its a double-handicap

If I recall correctly, the GSX until '98 weighed about 3130lbs. Heavy by my standards (a man with no car over 1900lbs.) but I happen to know that it's lighter than some other so called "sports" cars out there.
A limited slip differential was optional though for the rear.

3100 is heavy

but the 240 or AE86 or MR2 are all under 3000 pounds.

Of course, the NSX, Supra, 350Z,300Z,VR4 3kGT are all well over 3100 pounds.

Drifting in AWD cars works really well on wet, small diameter skid pads. In fact the drift world record is held by an AWD Subaru WRX. The car drifted for a couple of hours around the skid pad until it ran out of fuel.

Around dry, large radius corners, drifting proves to be more difficult in an AWD car. There are always several Mitsubishi EVO's, Subaru WRX's as well as the occasional 996 Turbo there to show that it can be done, albeit not as easily or smoothe as with a higher powered RWD car with proper balance and direct steering.

Hi, I'm a student from Japan and we have drifting team in midwest.
I'm drifting with my 91 VR4 and my friend drifting with 97 GS-T.
I would say every car can drift.

FF cars need front LSD and using e-brake continuancely.
Some professional FF drifters just use foot brake. (need good brake pad on rear)
AWD is little similar with FF drifting.
I use foot brake to slide and use accel to control sliding.
AWD cars better have front and rear LSD.
STI, EVO(Japanese spec), and R34GTR can drift like FR cars because of electronic Differential gear systems.
My VR4 is too heavy to drifting, but still possible.

Please check our drifting movies @ US drift nationals,NC
VR4 http://rocsa.org/usdrift/files/kta.AVI
GS-T http://rocsa.org/usdrift/files/koh.AVI

You can't drift a FF car,you can powerslide,but not drift.It may look like a drift,but it isn't,a drift is pushed,not pulled.And to add to the eclipse subject,it doesn't have a torque split like an R32,it is mediocre,but if your skilled enough,I'm sure you can somewhat drift,though it will be hard.The car is heavy,whic will cause a lot of load on the front,which will cause understeer,maybe a good clutch kick will beak it enough to get it going,dunno.But what I do know is this,in order to keep a steady drift with that car,you will have to break all 4 wheels,and 4w drifts are hard.If you just break the rear,their is gonna be a bias in the front,which will completely throw you off,as your car will be pulled out of it.Though I think a drift can be done,don't expect a fast one,the 4wd on that car will eitheir slow you down,or pull you out and cause (assdrag),or will just attempt to correct itself in a medicore way.

You can't drift a FF car,you can powerslide,but not drift.It may look like a drift,but it isn't,a drift is pushed,not pulled.

Hmmmm interesting. You do know that a powerslide with a FWD car would result in understeer, not oversteer - right? (in other words, an end result that looks nothing like a drift whatsoever)

Hmmmm interesting. You do know that a powerslide with a FWD car would result in understeer, not oversteer - right? (in other words, an end result that looks nothing like a drift whatsoever)

It is hard to explain,but I'm sure you know what I'm getting at.Depending on how you enter,you could face understeer,that is where the e-brake usually comes in,and it somewhat looks like a drift.

Hello everyone!

This is my first reply on Automtiveforums.com and I just want to share my knowladge.

I am happy to prove all of you wrong about how a 4wd car, expeshialy the 2004 WRX, can't drif. Here in Mass my friends and I get together and go out to certain 90-180 turns and take our cars through their paces and i must say that the wrx is a machine like no other. Because the diff transfers power during acceleration to the rear wheels, up to 60%-70% i think, it handels like nothing ive ever experianced. When you enter a turn you begin and then before the apex of the turn you give the ebrake a quick jotle and then release. The tail of the car comes right out, but becaue this is 4wd there are some problems with overstear but it is ealisly fixable once you know how your car reacks.

Now given some wet asphalt things work out even better. I have been in a compleat sidways drift on dry asphalt before entering a turn. To tell you the truth the wrx is amazing in every aspeckt except i wish it had a little more power! :)

I think theres a dealer installed exhaust.

And theresd Vishnu performance stage 0

wrx drifter, the majority of AF's members read and write in english. It'd be of great help if you could too, so more of our members could understand your post.

what does FF and FR stand for?

With the right suspension setup and driving technique, ANY car can drift. A FWD car can do it just fine without using any ebrake crap if you know what you're doing. I used to do it in my Civic. Approach turn fast, flick wheel towards outside of turn and as soon as weight transfers to the inside, turn into the corner hard. Let of the gas as you do it, and possibly give it a little brake, weight snaps towards outside and off rear wheels simultaneously, and the back end rotates around.

It's almost TOO easy in my Subaru. Of course I have a 24mm rear sway bar too. :biggrin: Turn into corner fast, let off gas. It's that simple. The car will stay sideways until it skids to a complete stop, or will snap back in line almost instantly if I correct a little and stomp the gas.

Of course, drifting is slow, so I don't do it often, unless I'm bored and in a big empty area. All that's actually useful is a little rotation on a tight corner or if I enter wrong and need to point the nose in more, no more than 5-10 degrees.

The Eclipse has a viscous center differential like my car, So the amount of power transferred front to rear is simply a matter of how hot the viscous goo is. You can't control it. It's FWD biased because the engine is mounted transversly like a regular FWD car. An EVO is the same way, but with a much more sophisticated differential setup. Except of course the USDM EVO which has a viscous coupling too. A Skyline or Subaru has a RWD biased system in that the engine is mounted longways with the car.

I think there was something else I was gonna say, but damned if I can remember what it was.

edit: FF = Front engine, Front wheel drive and FR = Front engine, Rear wheel drive

Can someone please post a video of actual evidence showing a FWD car drifting and not just sliding around a corner with the driver just holding on and hoping for the best? Please include a video that has more than one corner, preferably 2,3, or more and shoing the FWD car maintaining speed and control through each turn. It would be nice to finally see some evidence of such a real world even rather than just BS rationalizations posted online.

Yes, you can drift an AWD. No one said you can't. Well, I can't drift my Skyline because I suck and my island's roads are crap.

Does Mitsubishi sell a torque splitter like for the SKyline where you can choose how much the front and rear LSD work? THis seems to me to be able to overcome any handicap in the GSX/TSi.

Can someone please post a video of actual evidence showing a FWD car drifting and not just sliding around a corner with the driver just holding on and hoping for the best? Please include a video that has more than one corner, preferably 2,3, or more and shoing the FWD car maintaining speed and control through each turn. It would be nice to finally see some evidence of such a real world even rather than just BS rationalizations posted online.

Yes, you can drift an AWD. No one said you can't. Well, I can't drift my Skyline because I suck and my island's roads are crap.

Does Mitsubishi sell a torque splitter like for the SKyline where you can choose how much the front and rear LSD work? THis seems to me to be able to overcome any handicap in the GSX/TSi.

:wave:

hi scourge!

it's driftRPS13 from Velocity, AKA the guy who bought the M30.

how goes it?

After seeing a DSM attempt to drift, the prospects look bleak. Even pro D1 drivers couldnt hang the back out :disappoin

Ill post vid once its uploaded

Can someone please post a video of actual evidence showing a FWD car drifting and not just sliding around a corner with the driver just holding on and hoping for the best? Please include a video that has more than one corner, preferably 2,3, or more and shoing the FWD car maintaining speed and control through each turn. It would be nice to finally see some evidence of such a real world even rather than just BS rationalizations posted online.

I'm not a FF apologist. I'm not too into FF for performance, though they do some amazing things these days. I remember having a 1/10th scale Yokomo FF touring car way back when, and it had terribly translated directions. Either though a fault of my own or a fault of the manual, I constructed the car so that the rear had nearly no clearance (i.e. ~.050"). That car performed in a way that looked quite like drifting. I even turned in decent times against the heavier plastic cars. The attitude was a little different than a RWD drift, but it was tail out all the same. It was less like driving a car and more like dragging a shovel with a Segway. It really just went wherever the fronts were pointed regardless of the direction the car was pointed in. You have to take massive weight and traction out the back of the car, and I seriously doubt it would be simple to do with a actual car, but if an FF car could be built with a massive front weight bias and an almost total lack of traction in the back, you'll get some drifty performance.

So, my guess on the FF drift issue: Purpose-built machine + crazy driver = Driftyness with FF accent. Anyone care to build a fiberglass-bodied, tube-frame Prelude with bike tires in the back, Hoosiers in the front, and a really fast steering box?

Geeks have a word for it: hack value. It's a term they use when they get a graphical browser running on a C=64. They throw it around when they plug a webcam equipped fridge into their home network. Some also call it the geek factor. To do something "for the hack value" generally means putting effort into some project, despite the limited value/usefulness of the final product, just for bragging rights.

If you want to become the next D1GP champ, get a 240SX, or a Silvia, or a FD3S, FC3S, Soarer, or whatever. If you want to impress the hell out of your friends, or just be able to claim you were the pioneer of FF drift, good luck.

I decided that I wanted to see what would have to happen to get a FF car sideways, I decided to try a little experiment. Keeping in mind that I haven't much FF performance driving in my past (my fast driving has been done in MR or FR cars) I tried a Feint in my Protege5 last week in a clearing, and I just couldn't get the back end out. I tried it with varying amounts of brake in an attempt to unload the rear, to no avail. Understeer could be had, but without the handbrake, I couldn't make the back come out. More speed or a better driver may help, but in my comfort zone for this car, it wasn't happening. In fact, the chassis wasn't all that easy to upset, unless I wanted it to push.

Gave it a shot, sorry.

A Skyline or Subaru has a RWD biased system in that the engine is mounted longways with the car.


That's not exactly about to make perfect sense, since almost every early FF car used an engine mounted longitudinally (like FR) except for DKW (and SAAB's tail happy 92) but then again, these early cars were the ones that'd go sideways if you lifted off the gas (or used the brakes) midturn.
My own Toyota uses such a setup (a bizzare transmission is used where the differential is located under the engine) this and the stiff anti-roll bar which these first FF Toyota's use combine to make one fun car. I've got a great photo of a Car and Driver road tester getting one sideways - but alas... it can't be considered a drift, because some people who have no idea whatsoever say it isn't. :p

scourge2u: the best evidence comes from experience, why don't you go out and try it for yourself? Do you not know how to drive? Is it too hard for you to find a front wheel drive vehicle, and a couple of turns? :rofl:

hi scourge!

it's driftRPS13 from Velocity, AKA the guy who bought the M30.

how goes it?

Dooing good. Still looking for an M30 and trying to sell my Skyline. It looks like I'm going to have to ship it to Matsuyama and try to sell it there while I'm in the US. But, the GF's family is getting upset. Sorta thinking I'm "kidnapping" her to the US and the US is a very dangerous place and all that. Man, I don't want to have two cars especially when I'm not even in the country!

How goes it with the M30? I asked Nissan NA about compliancing the Leopard, but they said I would have to ask the DOT for specifics about the differences between the two cars. I think I'm just gonna get the M30 and ship it to Japan when I come back here. I'll swap the dash over the RHD and that way I can still bring it back because the M30 is already a US street legal car.

I'm just having a bit of fun, but do you see FWD cars trying to drift near you? Its been said by some that FWD cars aren't used in Japan because they lack the style points of RWD. Haha. I can only laugh at that. I see the new drifting fad in the US as the new bandwagon that posers want to get on so they will make up anything to make others think they can be a part of it. If you're going to do something, you need to have the right equipment. :2cents:

Ah, the "bandwagon jumpers" Those "cookie-cutter" enthusiasts in on a fad, who refuse to try anything different or new, afterall, if it wasn't exactly as the fad mold created it, then they wouldn't be on quite the same bandwagon would they?
People these days are stuborn and uncreative, that's the whole problem with the automotive hobby, everbody copies everybody else, and they're mostly all too feeble minded to try something different. "It can't be done" they turn a blind eye.
Afterall, it's comfortable to be the same isn't it?

How do you tell if an AWD car is Fwd or Rwd orientated?

Ahhhh, 2strokebloke, you still don't get it. Its not about trying something different. Look, FWD simply cannot drift. Its a fact. It cannot be done. They can slide, but they cannot drift. Its only Americans who get all defensive about this reality. Its not surprising since the majority of Americans own FWD cars. They want to play but they don't want to pay. There is no other way. If you want to drift, you will need the right equipment.

Will someone just call webster and tell them to write in the definition of a drift:disappoin

I liked what someone said earlier, that in a drift you push the car through it. Not pull it like what happens with Fwd cars.

Ahhhh, 2strokebloke, you still don't get it. Its not about trying something different. Look, FWD simply cannot drift. Its a fact. It cannot be done. They can slide, but they cannot drift. Its only Americans who get all defensive about this reality. Its not surprising since the majority of Americans own FWD cars. They want to play but they don't want to pay. There is no other way. If you want to drift, you will need the right equipment.


Why? Why does which wheels are driven even matter. Sure, a FWD car can't hit the gas and make the rear tires come loose by breaking traction with power, but that's more like a simple powerslide anyways and not very impressive. Drifting is as simple as loading the weight of the car on the right corners. Make the front end have traction, and the rear end not. Turn fast enough that the back tires with little traction break free, but not fast enough that the front tires with a lot of traction does. That's it. Why does being FWD or RWD have anything to do with this? You're not pushing OR pulling. You're drifting. "Pushing" the car through the turn as you say is just a powerslide. Any 15 year old in a Chevy truck can do that, so is he drifting now?

Does Mitsubishi sell a torque splitter like for the SKyline where you can choose how much the front and rear LSD work? THis seems to me to be able to overcome any handicap in the GSX/TSi.

Yes, the diff that comes in JDM EVO's. That's not the problem. DSM's almost invariably handle like crap due to their weight and craptastic suspension.

I liked what someone said earlier, that in a drift you push the car through it. Not pull it like what happens with Fwd cars.

that's a great quote, never heard it before. thanks!

Yes, the diff that comes in JDM EVO's. That's not the problem. DSM's almost invariably handle like crap due to their weight and craptastic suspension.


Take out things to lighten the car and get a set of coilovers. Won't this take care of the problems then? As for a definition of drifting, I have seen it referred to as controlled sliding. With a FWD car, there is no control. The driver is merely holding on and there is definately no controlled sliding when a FWD car has to navigate more than one corner, especially when these corners face oppostie directions.

I've said before, where is video evidence of a FWD car doing this. I have seen many many OPTION videos and they all fail in the hands of professional drivers. Now, I'm not saying such evidence doesn't exist, only that it has not been shown...ever.

Look, FWD simply cannot drift. Its a fact. It cannot be done. They can slide, but they cannot drift.

I dare you to back that up with facts. Everytime somebody gives a good logical explanation, somebody simply says "No, it can't be done" without giving any real explanation as to why not. When you actually have REAL FACTS, come back with a REAL ANSWER. Until then don't pretend like you know anything.

"they can slide" Duh! What the hell do you think a drift is?

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck it's a duck. Of course somebody like you may say that's a hippo, and then fail to give any logical explanation, but hey, we're not all perfect.

Bring some real info, some actual logical thoughts into your defense, and perhaps we just might believe you, but for right now simply stating "FF can't drift" isn't going to work. :2cents:

I have seen it referred to as controlled sliding. With a FWD car, there is no control.
Guess you've never heard of lift-throttle oversteer? (steering with the throttle? ever heard of such a thing?)http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/rofl.gif

they can slide" Duh! What the hell do you think a drift is? Now I have to disagree, a "Drift" is not a slide persay. A slide slows you down (for the most part), but a drift is suspost to keep up your speed or even some times speed you up through a turn. Not sure if that all made sence or not?

Now I have to disagree, a "Drift" is not a slide persay. A slide slows you down (for the most part), but a drift is suspost to keep up your speed or even some times speed you up through a turn. Not sure if that all made sence or not?

Well if you know of a drift where the wheels do not lose traction and "slide" then please, enlighten me on the subject.

I know I was thinking of that when I was typing. It all just comes down to definitions and thats why this debait will never end. So I guess if D1 accepts FF drifters I will to...for now at least. And when someone tells me they just did a drift in their Fwd car I will just smile and nod.

Anyways back on subject, yes I think a Awd car can drift. If Fwd cars can than why not Awd too.

You can adjust how much power the front and rear wheels get so that means AN AWD DRIFTER!!! I heard you can put as much as 65% power to the rear wheels.

Yeah you put 65% to the rear wheels in the wrx sti.

This reminded me of this thread, gotta bump...

Check out this usdrift.com feature car - http://www.usdrift.com/feature.htm

Click here for a REALLY BIG pic of a Civic drifting. I mean REALLY BIG! (http://www.usdrift.com/images/featurecar/dsc_0027.JPG)

USD: First off let me say that you deserve some mad love, in the pits before the contest there was a lot of talk about why there were FWD cars in the contest. You shut a lot of people up and opened a lot of eyes.

Marc Rosso (MR): Everyone is a hater till you show 'em what you've got…Then they become your new best friend after you out drift them. I find it funny, it just shows how blind most people are, they only know what they see in magazines and videos.

USD: A FWD car drifting is almost unheard of what got you started?

MR: FWD drifting is unheard of here in the States, in Japan there are FWD drifters like Hata Keyama.

that is officially the biggest picture ever. please downsize it or change it to a link or it will be removed.


i have one thing to say:

discuss the picture and quote at will, BUT if this thread turns into another thread like the last 2 that were recently closed, i will personally put in a request to Igor himself (AF President) to have this forum closed completely. those 2 threads were bullshit enough, and i saw alot of immature behaviour and discussion. this is just a warning, if it happens again in this thread, DRASTIC CONSEQUENCES WILL RESULT!

carry on.

That is huge picture, I cropped and downsized it, and put it as an attachment of this post for quicker downloading of this thread, so if you'd be so kind as to remove it from your post.

I find it interesting that he drives a Civic, since so far as FF cars go, it's not one that is very sensitive to how the driver plays with the throttle going through curves - no doubt that makes cars safer, but alot less fun to play with (and almost all FF cars being made these days act like that)
I drove a friend's civic recently ('90) and it wasn't as fun to throw around as either the Toyota, or even the Yugo (though it does hold the road better, and has alot more power)

I find it interesting that he drives a Civic, since so far as FF cars go, it's not one that is very sensitive to how the driver plays with the throttle going through curves -


Not true at all!
Well it is for some models of Civic, but you forget that Honda has been building race cars longer than even you have been alive, and when they want to build a responsive chassis they know how to.
While most models of Civic are a bit vauge and lethargic, its only becuase thats what the market demands, and its not idicative of all Civic models. Go and drive an old 70s EB civic, and I think you will be surprised (you may end up owning one), or if the US was luckey enough to get tuned suspension on the Si models drive an Si from any year. If set up the same as the Japanese models they are one of the most balanced cars Iv ever driven.
My SiR (a step up again in the handling department) was the second best balanced, and responsive car Iv ever driven, second only to a Lotus Elise. And I would have to say, that mid corner, the SiR was far far more controlable with the throttle.
This of course means that with the right parts its very easy to turn even a base model sloppy Civic into a very tight and responsive car, certianly far more so than even a Toymota corrola.

Well the old civics are a completely different beast all together than the newer generations (and I haven't seen one of the old tiny Civics on the road for a long time) By the end of the eighties, fun to drive FF cars were practically history. But the past Hondas even the 600 could be made to handle very well (simply cutting two coils out of the front springs and fitting wider wheels to a N600 gave skidpad results as high as a Ferrari of the same period!) but I'm not too much of a Honda guy, I haven't driven many.

but I'm not too much of a Honda guy, I haven't driven many.

Then don't jump to such false conculsions and offer such opionated judgments, or I shall be forced to judge all Subaru 360s but the cobweb filled example that sat in a friends garage. :smokin:

I haven't driven many...

recently... http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/icon16.gif

Well the old civics are a completely different beast all together than the newer generations (and I haven't seen one of the old tiny Civics on the road for a long time) By the end of the eighties, fun to drive FF cars were practically history. But the past Hondas even the 600 could be made to handle very well (simply cutting two coils out of the front springs and fitting wider wheels to a N600 gave skidpad results as high as a Ferrari of the same period!) but I'm not too much of a Honda guy, I haven't driven many.

I have an N600 :iceslolan It doesn't run though. Someday I'm gonna get a cheap Civic or CRX donor car, and swap the entire drivetrain, most of the suspension and some of the interior.

I have an N600 :iceslolan It doesn't run though. Someday I'm gonna get a cheap Civic or CRX donor car, and swap the entire drivetrain, most of the suspension and some of the interior.

You'll ruin the handling, but it should be fast in a straight line (and put those muscle cars in their place!)