Ultimate Drift Cars!!!

Okay, you all define drifting as going around corners sideways to maintain momentum. Right? Well, then the ultimate drift cars have been doing this a lot longer than men like Keiichi Tsuchiya have been alive and they haven't been running in Japan. In fact, they're probably hot lapping every weekend at your local short track.

The cars are steel and aluminum single-seat beasts weighing less than 1400lbs and powered by methanol-fueled, mechanical fuel injected 410ci small block V8's attached to a direct drive and Halibrand-style locking quick change rear end. They're called sprint cars.

http://community-2.webtv.net/Tackyfast/AtticaOhioSpeedweek/media/captureD23.jpg

This is the fastest method of getting a sprint car around a short track's corners. Looks pretty drifty to me.

And by the way, the average 410 Sprint turns laps on a 1/2mile dirt oval in under 13seconds.

ever see ice/snow racing?

They slide alot and they turn in way ahead of the corners.

PS you need to be on a road to drift not dirt nor snow :wink:

yeah, sure, they drift to an extent...

i thought this board was dedicated to Japanese-style D1 drifting? why, all of a sudden, are we pulling every genre imaginable that "might" be considered "drifty" into it?? :confused:

we probably shoulda put D1 Driting

Originally posted by S13_Iketani
i thought this board was dedicated to Japanese-style D1 drifting?

nah...just a drift forum....

Look, I wasn't trying to create some sort of major argument here. But I have noticed that there is a tendency for many people to pigeonhole drifting as a a modern Japanese hobby that only takes place in the import world.

NSX, you say that it has to be on asphlat. Why? Doesn't it take more skill to balance throttle-on oversteer versus low-throttle traction on a slicker surface. And drifting as a competition technique is generally accepted as used in rallying and rallycrossing. How many rallycross courses or rally stages are asphalt?

Iketani, to you "D1" style drifting is all that matters. Does this discount people like Paddy Hopkirk and Tazio Nuvolari who used drifting back in the days where competition tires were narrower than your foot? Would you dare watch footage of the Mille Miglia, Tour de Corse, or Targa Florio and say that the past greats were not adept at drifting?

Drifting is admired not for its showmanship, but by the fact that it is a display of ultimate control. To be able to control a 900+horsepower, 1400lb car with a 96inch wheelbase on dirt when surrounded by 19 other such land based missles takes dare I say MORE SKILL than it does to sling a 1984 Toyota Corolla around a hairpin.

I'd like to see Keiichi Tsuchiya run with the maestros of the World of Outlaws. By the same token, I'd like to see Steve Kinser, Danny "the Dude" Lasoski, "Wild Child" Jac Haudenschild or Kenny "Mouse" Jacobs strap into a prepped Sil-80 and have at it. Credit should be given where credit is due, and D1 is not the only domain of slideways speed.

i thought the snow thing was cooler

1000hp+ cars

no tractions

spiked tires

stupid speeds

getting more sideways than either dirt or D1

no, D1 is not the only domain of drifting. that's not what i was implying. i was implying that the PRETENSE of starting this forum was in support of Japanese D1-style drifting. just look at the guy who told Igor to put it here. his user-name is WhiteBlur, and he has a Sileighty in his signature, sideways i might add, and the "K's" symbol from a Nissan Silvia as his avatar. something tells me that he wanted this forum to be about Japanese D1-style drifting. if you want a forum to talk about your precious World of Outlaws, then PM Igor and get one made.

how can you generalize that D1 style drifting is all that matters to me? sure, it's my favourite style of motorsports and the type that i plan to compete in in the future, but that doesn't mean i won't give credit where credit is due. the sheer fact is this forum was started by people who had D1 style drifting in mind when they decided they wanted a forum to talk about drifting in. i don't deny the fact that the old skool sports car guys and the Outlaw hillbillies don't use it either, but those discussions can go in the F1 forum and make a World of Outlaws forum.

maybe we should divide this forum into different sections if that would make you happy. :rolleyes:

so octagon... does the plastic tray technique counts as drifitng?:rolleyes:

Originally posted by S13_Iketani
no, D1 is not the only domain of drifting. that's not what i was implying. i was implying that the PRETENSE of starting this forum was in support of Japanese D1-style drifting. just look at the guy who told Igor to put it here. his user-name is WhiteBlur, and he has a Sileighty in his signature, sideways i might add, and the "K's" symbol from a Nissan Silvia as his avatar. something tells me that he wanted this forum to be about Japanese D1-style drifting. if you want a forum to talk about your precious World of Outlaws, then PM Igor and get one made.

how can you generalize that D1 style drifting is all that matters to me? sure, it's my favourite style of motorsports and the type that i plan to compete in in the future, but that doesn't mean i won't give credit where credit is due. the sheer fact is this forum was started by people who had D1 style drifting in mind when they decided they wanted a forum to talk about drifting in. i don't deny the fact that the old skool sports car guys and the Outlaw hillbillies don't use it either, but those discussions can go in the F1 forum and make a World of Outlaws forum.

maybe we should divide this forum into different sections if that would make you happy. :rolleyes:

I would like to start by saying that I am EXTRAORDINARILY OFFENDED by your attempt to lump in men like Mario Andretti and Gordon Johncock with the Nascar crowd. WoO, USAC, the All-Star Circuit of Champions, and the many other orginizations that sanction sprint car races are based out of Northern America and are highly professional series. USAC has routinely produced the greatest drivers this country has ever had, and they come from the 1/4mile and 1/2 mile bullrings of the midwest. Tony Stewart. Jeff Gordon. Mario Andretti. Kasey Kahne. Sarah Fisher. Boston Reid. These gentlemen (and lady) are just a sampling of the talent that sprint cars have produced. I dare you to call any one of them a "hill billy".

I didn't mean to imply that D1 is all that matters to you. That was not my intent. Moreover, it was not my intent to insult anyone. But it seems to me that there's just too much of this "that's not drifting. You can't drift that." nonsense going around. This forum obstensibly was created to discuss drifting, but it seems more centered around discussing what isn't drifting. The "FWD" argument seems to come up in each and every thread. There is so much more to this sport/hobby than that.

Overly opinionated arguments and stand-offish threads that do little more than point to a lack of tolerance for new viewpoints only kill people's interest. When I was a model railroader, my Dad and I were part of a club called "Emerald Necklace" that focused on modeling the Nickel Plate Railroad. While many of us were casual fans who loved big steam (like the NPR's famous Berkshire 2-10-4's) and their beautiful Alco diesels, there was this cult of anal-retentive spoilsports that in model-railroading circles are called "rivet counters". These guys would shriek and holler any time something "wasn't to prototype". If it was out of the era of the layout (mid 50's, steam to diesel transition period) or wasn't technically a locomotive or boxcar or whatever that would've been used during those years, they hated you for it and would take every chance to point it out. New members left quickly, especially once they moved into positions on the club staff. Now, there is no more Emerald Necklace and the grand layout that we all built is no more.

The moral, LIGHTEN UP! When someone is doing something drastically wrong, sure point it out. But if it's just a different interpretation or a new idea, then take a look at it and adapt it to your viewpoint. To quote my late great-grandfather; "A day on which nothing new is learned is a day that's been wasted." It makes everything much more worthwhile.

And Endlesskev, what's the "plastic tray" technique? :bloated:

how many americans race in F1 ? Cuz i think that is where the best drivers of the world go.

or even CART doesn't even have many american drivers and its mainly an american racing series.

As many open-wheel fans in America painfully point out, there hasn't been an American in Formula One since either (ech) Eddie Cheever or Michael Andretti. Both of which were fair disappointments who ran with second rate teams.

There hasn't been an emphasis on F1 in the states for a while. The push has just started and now drivers like Townsend Bell and Boston Reid are trying to break into the F1 ranks. (Townsend runs F3000. Boston was one of the top contestants of the Red Bull search and is trying to find a Toyota Atlantic ride while running USAC Sprint and Silver Crown events)

As for CART..... why bring it up? Yes, there aren't many American drivers in CART. It's an international series that features mostly young talent that is also trying to break into F1, but doesn't have the money to do so. That's why Bernie Ecclestone is trying to buy up the series.

And, by the way, Mario was running USAC races at dirt tracks like Langhorne and the Milwaukee Mile long before he strapped into a Ferrari 312B. I'd dare anyone to discount Andretti as a product of the American short tracks.

ok octagon, we can all see your viewpoint and where you're coming from. now how about you trying seeing things from our perspective? in every sport, there will always be purists who want everything perfectly defined, with clear boundaries and limits set. im not saying that's how everyone in this forum is, but there are probably a few like that here.

it's the same as constitutional interpretation. you have narrow interpretation where everything is exactly how it says and there is no reading between the lines. for the most part that catagory is us, the people that want this forum to be about D1-style drifting. obviously you are the opposite. in this case, you're for broad interpretation where there is reading between the lines and you go by what was intended along with what is actually said. your way (please don't think im trying to say you're the only one who thinks this way and im singling you out) things like sprint car racing, ice racing, and basically anything where you throw your back end out is including in what is called drifting. our way, it's mostly about the rwd and awd asphalt sliding or in other words, D1-style. it's not that we don't respect ice racing, sprint cars, rallying, it's just that most of the people here (i think we're a majority) would PREFER it was about D1 and not include much else. we have huge amounts of respect for rally racers, ice racers, and all that, but it's what we thought this forum was intended for that matters to us.

and yes, we do want to drive some people away. it's been reiterated many times in the 240sx forum that there are lots of people we want to stay away from this sport: ignorant dumbasses who'll probably end up killing innocent bystanders, ricers, bandwagon jumpers, COPS (if things get out of hand and the police crack down on drifting like they have with street racing, we're all fucked) and the people that have no idea where drifting comes from, the culture (and drifting pretty much is a lifestyle), what drifting is (huge one!), and just plain don't give a shit if they completely ruin the sport cuz they'll just move on to the next big thing. in a way, we're all purists. i mean, with how much you obviously like sprint racing, surely you don't want to hear about someone on the news that ran over three kids in his/her family's grocery-getter and in their defence said "i was training to become a sprint car racer". we don't want plastic tray sliders (i think the thread was named something like "these guys are serious about what they do") and people that think "hey, drifting. sounds cool. i'll go learn how to do it in the '03 accord that daddy bought me" and things of that nature lumped in with the sport we love.

to sum all that up, we see your point. now it's only fair that you try to see ours.

Originally posted by endlesskev86
so octagon... does the plastic tray technique counts as drifitng?:rolleyes:

LMFAO!

D Money, you I can agree with on who should be kept out. Posers, ricers, and wannabe punkesses in general do NOT belong in any situation where skill and common sense/knowledge are necessary.

When people's safety or the livelihood of a hobby is jeopardized because people value "the image" (few terms are more prone to making me vomit uncontrollably than image) it royally pisses me off. I can't begin to tell you how much F&F posers have ruined the good name of the few true import rodders at my school (all of whom, including me, graduated this year; an S13 guy who was saving for a SR20DET and intent on going into SCCA Improved Touring competition, a dude with a autocross tuned Mirage, my BGT, a stout early Civic also for autocrossing, and a first gen MR2). We who have cars we poured blood, sweat, and tears into and actually did fabricating on couldn't get any respect simply because we were into something remotely similar to the posers.

(Mr. Koubal, thanks for letting us use up so much of the stuff for the MIG welder on Derek's old Storm)

The same applies here and I agree. Some kid thinking he's true slideways will slam into a parked car, or a porch, or a person, and tarnish the name of a hobby/sport that is actually pretty well respected amongst knowledgable fans. I don't want that to happen in the least, because it would ruin a lot for a lot of people. Including me and my B! I drift her myself and with some measure of true success.

I'll concede the point about keeping out posers and riff-raff by trying to keep a tight focus on things. I'd just like it not to be at the narrow exclusion of APPLICABLE techniques and ideas.

Some kid wondering how he can pull off Initial D stuff in his Accord = Not needed

Sharing ideas amongst the different worlds of motorsport where common ground is found to better understanding and improve techniques = Very needed.

Heck, maybe there'd be some way for one of you guys to rig up a "Jacob's Ladder" on an S13's rear suspension. It's this neat little parallel link on a sprint car's rear suspension that counteracts centrifugal force to jack weight off of the right rear and onto the left rear to sustain the drift.

alright. i'm not saying much more then this: i and many other people were under the impression (and rightfully so) that this forum was started for the sole purpose of talking about Japanese D1-Style drifting. i do not discount the skill of ice-racers, sprint car drivers, old skool F1 drivers, or anyone else who tosses out their back end. but that's not the drifting we want to talk about. the Japanese drifting is all about style and skill. how well you can hold the drift, how long, how many you can link up without fucking up etc. that's what the sport is. they're not trying to get fast lap times or anything else. we're not talking about powersliding sprint cars that are trying to get a fast lap-time on a dirt track oval.

we want to talk about drifting: the sport. not drifting: the word.

btw, i admit my "hillbilly" comment was out of line.

ok, now we're getting somewhere. sounds to me like we're finally getting things all straightened out so everyone in this forum can cooperate and actually have something worthwhile to gain by coming here. with everyone seemingly on good terms with eachother, can we get back to the subject at hand? namely, drifting.

it's about time we start enjoying talking here about drifting as much as we enjoy actually drifting.

Drifting is admired not for its showmanship, but by the fact that it is a display of ultimate control. To be able to control a 900+horsepower, 1400lb car with a 96inch wheelbase on dirt when surrounded by 19 other such land based missles takes dare I say MORE SKILL than it does to sling a 1984 Toyota Corolla around a hairpin.

Hey, Octagon, no need to bring Corollas into this, they didn't do anything wrong to you did they? :smile:

circle track and nascar are LAME!!! It's the same thing for a hundred laps or more all left hand turns most of the time . I do have to say that the nascar and other drivers are very skilled to take a car around a track at 180mph+ and keep it steady, but the reason we all like D1 style drifting is because it's interesting to watch and you never know what will happen D1 is just as cool as rally. the tracks are always cool. Nrrow ass roads cars going insane speeds wipin the car around a hair pin apex with great skill thats what it's all about , right

I am just getting so pissed off with this. Why can't you people understand that THIS IS A FORUM DEDICATED TO JAPANESE STYLE DRIFT? We don't want to hear about how well Civic's can Drift or how good F1 and Nascar is. If you want to talk about that stuff then talk about it in the proper forums. I come into this forum to talk about real Drift and so far there has not been a lot posted on this subject. It's time to start the good stuff going and in future lets not reply to any of these kinds of posts, if we don't reply then maybe they will learn not to post them here. Just my 2c.

*sighs* And we'd had this sorted out before.

Nope, Corollas did nothing to me and I happen to like the AE86 a lot. I just used it as an example, but you knew that right?

Drfthis, however, you've obviously never even seen a sprint car race. It's about thirty laps of going around left hand turns while steering right and feathering the throttle to keep two massive unequally staggered rear wheels spinning so that momentum is maitained but what little control you have isn't lost.

And there's 21 other guys swarmed around you doing the exact same thing on an ever changing track surface that pitches and tosses the cars and loses available grip as the race wears on.

But, in any case. We'd solved this argument before. There was no need to drag it back up.

And I made no mention of NASCAR, only USAC, the World of Outlaws, and Formula One.

i hate ovals

the only experience is on GT3 with ovals and its boring and hard and annoying and my front right wears out (diff is set wrong)

But watching NASCAR is one of the most boring things ever. Simpsons proved this its dull unless theres a car crash and that isn't a good thing.

Yes, superspeedways are boring as hell and I avoid them at all costs. It's the short dirt ovals that sprint cars, Silver Crown, late models, modifieds, and midgets race on that are interesting and require actual skill.

The closest thing in England I could liken them to is a rallycross course. So, just picture weird open wheel cars turning left, but with the competition and fury of a rallycross grid for spectacle.

For the rest of you, short tracks are located around the country and have racing almost every Friday through Sunday night. Speed TV carries the World of Outlaws and Xtreme Dirt Car latemodels, and ESPN2 carries USAC Silver Crown, USAC Midgets, and USAC wingless sprints.

Heck, there are over twenty dirt ovals in Ohio alone.

i remember watchin banger racing once that was crap low performance cars

They also had open (to the elements) vehicles that had larger power and slid round the dirt course.

It really isn't as impressive as a car sliding sideways with a load of smoke on a road circuit

we SAID that we have no dis-respect for dirt-track racers. i realize that it takes skill to do what they do. i never once said that they weren't skilled. what remains is that this is a drifting forum that was started with the intentions of being a Japanese-style drifting forum. you are the ones who came in here claiming that "it's a general forum, it's a general forum". it is not. i'm done with this thread now.

as i said before. we want to talk about drifting the motorsport itself, not drifting that's used in ANOTHER motorsport.