Long crank before engine starts

Dear members,
I have 2000 windstar, for last 2 years it stalled after 200 - 400 Km. By hit and trail I replaced air filter, IAC, tps, twice the Fuel pump, spark plugs, fuel filter, relays to fuel pump and PCM relay, gear oil, gear filter alternator, battery, cleand the fuel inectors, but nothing worked. However, ultimately by the advice of our members I replaced the coil pack spark plugs and plug wires. since then (6 Months 5000 KM) stalling is over. But a new problem started. Not all the times, it takes long cranking to start and sometimes it takes two long cranks and the starts. It seems during this time either gas or (less likely) current is not comming. I changed gas filter and motorcraft complete fuel pump assembly in february 2012 (about 10000 Km). I have also done with the lower and upper manifold gaskets. isolators etc. Previously it took only one or two seconds at the most to start. There have never been a code
Azharj

Dear members,
I have 2000 windstar, for last 2 years it stalled after 200 - 400 Km. By hit and trail I replaced air filter, IAC, tps, twice the Fuel pump, spark plugs, fuel filter, relays to fuel pump and PCM relay, gear oil, gear filter alternator, battery, cleand the fuel inectors, but nothing worked. However, ultimately by the advice of our members I replaced the coil pack spark plugs and plug wires. since then (6 Months 5000 KM) stalling is over. But a new problem started. Not all the times, it takes long cranking to start and sometimes it takes two long cranks and the starts. It seems during this time either gas or (less likely) current is not comming. I changed gas filter and motorcraft complete fuel pump assembly in february 2012 (about 10000 Km). I have also done with the lower and upper manifold gaskets. isolators etc. Previously it took only one or two seconds at the most to start. There have never been a code
Azharj

Could be a faulty check valve in the fuel pump, not holding the pressure while not running. You could check by installing a fuel pressire tester to see if pressure disappears while engine is off.

Another thing you could try is priming the fuel pressure before starting by turning the key on for about 5 seconds then key off wait a few seconds and then turning key on again without starting. Then repeat the procdure and see if it starts quikly then. This procedure will at least elminate the fuel pump check valve as a problem. Sad part is the fuel pump needs to be replaced if this is the problem.

I agree with above plus: (in reverse order...)
... crankshaft pos sensor
... camshaft pos sensor
... fuel pump relay and PCM relay
... low system voltage caused by whatever, can be checked by voltmeter. Read tops of all fuses.

Thanks I think it may be battery which is already one or one and half year old
but I will follow the instructions and let you know

I agree with tempfixit's idea of priming the fuel pump several times before trying to start the engine.

Another possibility could be a faulty fuel pressure regulator. While priming several times the fuel pump you can look for fuel inside the vacuum line on top of it. There should be none. If you have a fuel pressure gauge tester, the pressure should raise about 10PSI after removing the vacuum line from it while engine is running.

A bad engine coolant temperature sensor or intake air temperature sensor (built into the MAF sensor) can also cause starting problems. If you have a live-data capable scanner you can take a look at the readings at ambient temperature; both should be between a few degrees from each other.

Oscar.

Given what you've done so far, you might try cleaning the MAF sensor. (Use ONLY the "MAF Sensor Cleaner" spray; simply remove the duct and spray all over and from both sides.)

Thanks for all. Scubacat I already have cleaned the MAF. I for got to tell that I was noticing very occasionally a voice only during acceleration when RPM were more than 4000. the voice became more frequent. It was like loose tappet of the old type cars. Last weekend I was just at 50 Km speed when I had a jerk and after that missing started with some sound from engine like "tuk tuk tuk", flashing CEL and failure to accelerate. code 0303 I was informed by mechanic that plugs wires every thing ok but may be valve, piston, rings or some thing in head. This is the end. Milage is 240,000 Miles. Any guess work?

asharj can you post a video of the sound the engine is making???

I would do a compression test on #3 clyinder for starters. Sounds like you may have a broken valve spring.

Are you saying you have twice dropped the tank and replaced the fuel pump? Have you tested the fuel pressure at the Schrader valve ... before starting? ... while the engine is still cold?

Thanks for all and the way you people are interested, But I do not know how to upload a video or link? Will I have to first upload it on you tube? I will give the answer in detail to all later on

Hi azharj,

Yes you will need to upload it first to youtube and post the link here.

Oscar.

Dear Friends here is the link to my uploaded video you can listen the engine noise. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJTR8nGwiLM&feature=youtu.be
I changed the fuel pump twice. First time only the pump motor (for Ford grand marquis). Last time full assembly from motorcraft. I did not checked the back pressure valve but pressure reading in fuel rail was within range. On Laptop IDS (ford) software showed zero (compression) pressure in cylinder 3. MAF sensor is OK I have cleaned one year back I could notice decreased water in water reservoir and A lot of water coming from silencer pipe

It almost sounds like an exhaust leak but since you have zero compression in cyl 3, there must be something else.

Have you removed the valve covers? Maybe a broken valve, spring, lifter is causing the noise. I'm not very good with noises, specially when it comes to internal engine components so, I really hope a more experienced user helps you.

Oscar.

I agree with Oscar that it could be a exhaust leak but I am thinking that it could be that the Spark Plug for some reason either vibrated out of the head or the head gasket completely failed and exhaust is escaping threw the gasket space bewtween head and block which I have never experienced and do not know if that is even possible.

I am not familiar with the FORD software that you are using that reads clyinder compression. I would use a compression tester and do a actual compression test of clyinder #3 just for verification.

I would remove the cowl and do some investegating of the head and exhaust.

it could be that the Spark Plug

That too! I didn't think about it; good one man!

Some Ford engines are known for "spitting" out spark plugs when not torqued properly, the 4.6L is one of them. I don't know if the 3.8 is one of those but it's surely worth to check those spark plugs.

Oscar.

Hi Dears,
Spark plugs is Ok. IDS (Integrated Diagnostic System or software) uses to modules VCM and VMM almost checks almost everything, re flash PCM and even readjust PCM . It is designed by ford and only for ford vehicles. It updates on subscription. You can check on Google any body can buy it and use it. but it is expensiveabout 400$. It is not I, who is using, but one workshop is using it. Today or tomorrow I will get open the heads and see. What about if we replace Head and cover gaskets when we replace any thing for cooling system. My problem started with coolant reservoir after one week the Y pipe then left side "quick convertor" then next month lower intake gasket and fifth month head gasket. This is a strange phenomenon when leakage of one part is repaired the whole system will be leaking one by one. Same happened with my power steering system

My dears,
All engine disassembled. Found broaken No. three valve. Mechanic has disassembled the cylinder crank etc. According to him cylinder piston ok crankshaft bearing are abraded. He advised to change the crank shaft bearing, grind the shaft; change all intake and exhaust valves and the standered piston rings. The concern is that Motorcraft are too expensive, he advised me to use the Federal Mogul (Sealed power) Products. I have not heard this name. Is it ok to try this product?
Azhar Jawaid

When I replaced my rings, I believe Federal Mogul was the brand ... they now have over 200k miles on them. I have used this brand often. However, I also believe it is OK to reuse rings that pass a visual inspection ... if they are used on the very same piston. Don't worry about having them radially positioned ... they will "find" where they want to be. Be sure to remove all hardened build-up from ring-grooves and piston tops.

Yes, if the crank requires grinding ... you will have to use undersize brgs. Definitely rebuild the heads and valves ... most important.

I recommend if available in your area is to get the block and heads magnafulxed to make sure there are not any cracks before going to far into rebuild or consider a rebuilt short block.

Hate to see doing all the work then find out after either block or head is damaged.

I have also used Federal Mogul parts many times in the past, never had any problem with them.

Hi all members,
Thank you for nice information. I checked on wiki pedia fedral mogul is big brand has made history of engines, starting from the steam engines and also the metallurgy.
But is what is "magnafulxed"? One question should mechanic disassemble all, when he had seen the problem? Should he have not let the remainder engine ramaine as such? Will it give me any advantage except burdon on my pocket? Now I think all the problems of hesitaion, occasional missing, stalling was due to this valve problem. I changed all the parts i.e., fuel pump, tps, IAC, coil, relays etc.
Azhar Jawaid

Magnafluxing videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-yXb5nO_Kg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye4zZ3XG1eY&feature=endscreen&NR=1

If the crankshaft needs to be machined the engine will need to be remved from vehicle to remove crankshaft.

Can you post some pictures of crankshaft and bearing???

Dear Tempfixit
I could not get the pictures. Now my mechanic showed me the crank there was about half mm groov at the site of the crank thirst bearing. He will have to put a new crankshaft from the junk yard. New is expansive. I have been changing OIl and filter (motor craft SWG 10-30 and motorcraft filter) every 3000 KM. Don't know why this happened. He will repair the oil pump do'nt know why. Tomorrow he will assemble all the engine. He advised me to swap with engine from junk yard. I donot agree with him. I fear I dont know how much KM this jukyard engine, what is inside and my be incmpatible with may computor, so I opted to rapair my old engine
Azhar Jawaid

Dear Tempfixit
I could not get the pictures. Now my mechanic showed me the crank there was about half mm groov at the site of the crank thirst bearing. He will have to put a new crankshaft from the junk yard. New is expansive. I have been changing OIl and filter (Mercon V and motorcraft filter) every 3000 KM. Don't know why this happened. He will repair the oil pump do'nt know why. Tomorrow he will assemble all the engine. He advised me to swap with engine from junk yard. I donot agree with him. I fear I dont know how much KM this jukyard engine, what is inside and my be incmpatible with may computor, so I opted to rapair my old engine
Azhar Jawaid

Engine swap on the Windstar is a pretty routine procedure but I would be hesitant to have it done outside North America where the supply of Essex engines is meager and the expertise pertaining to it much less common as a result. You would have to ask for some form of warranty at the very least

You might be better off paying for the shipping, but buying a complete overhauled engine from North America. Possible suppliers: Jasper Engines, Rock Auto, Advance Auto, NAPA, etc, etc .... or even Ford.

Thanks for all,
I got my "beloved". Now running great, no missing, no long crank, no abnormal sound. I think all the problems (see my all previous posts) oil consumption, ocassional missing and stalling all were due to this valve problem or head gaseket. Probably, changed the fuel pump and the IAC TPS and coil pack unnecessarily.
Azharj

Thanks for all,
I got my "beloved". Now running great, no missing, no long crank, no abnormal sound. I think all the problems (see my all previous posts) oil consumption, ocassional missing and stalling all were due to this valve problem or head gaseket. Probably, changed the fuel pump and the IAC TPS and coil pack unnecessarily.
Azharj

Glad it is running great know.

Is it harmful to use SWG 20-50 oil instead of 10-30 where environmental temperature is about 0 to 49C?
Azhar Jawaid