Rear shocks blown and firmer coil springs

Well, I guess I put too much weight back there a time or two. Both rear shocks are blown and this would be my 3rd set. 1st set was OEM originals, 2nd set I think were Gabriel's from Autozone and now I'll be getting a new set of shocks, but before I do I was entertaining the thought of putting stiffer springs back there to firm up the ride a lil bit and not have so much "bounce" in the rear. Are better spring rates sold for our vans? Anyone know what the stock spring rates are or just how I'd firm up the back end "full time" without putting in those "air bags" between the coil springs that you'd use for towing etc.. ?

I see variable rate springs on rockauto.com, but I don't know if that means stiffer/firmer and if it would ruin my ride in front or altogether.

I also see the ones that have a slightly taller spring, but it still compresses down to 12" and I'd think that would be stiffer and more heavy duty too. Right?

Here's the one I think is stiffer than stock that I might want:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1028904

Here's the one I think is made to be like the OEM shock:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1029288

One says heavy duty and the other doesn't. So is the heavy duty that much more heavy duty than stock? Think I'd notice it riding better/firmer with not as much sway and bounce?

IE: I will be towing very infrequently and also very infrequently I will pile 7 or 8 people in the van with a "FULL LOAD" of luggage for trips.

Why don't you want to try spring airbags? I've had spring airbags in the back of my '00 Windstar for the past 6+ years; they've worked fine. I originally got them to prepare for towing a popup camper - but appreciate that they nicely stiffen the rear suspension of the van.

Here are some pics of my spring airbag project:

http://rides.webshots.com/album/548741257AJALLi

I also recommend the air springs.
I did not have them on the Windstar, but have them on my Sienna.
NOTE:::: They do NOT increase the load capacity of the vehicle.
They DO maintain the normal ride level under varying load levels........when you load the vehicle....you add air to restore the rear end to the normal ride level.
They "firm up" the rear end....but you do need to monitor the ride height back there......you do NOT want to jack the back end up.
I have a trailer hitch.....and with the vehicle unloaded.....I measure from the hitch to the ground........then, after the vehicle is loaded......I measure the height again....and use a bicycle pump to pump it up to the original "unloaded" level.

I installed the "Airlift 1000" brand/model and bought them on Amazon.
I ran the air line out and "T" 'ed out to each bag.....so 1 line in the cargo area went to both bags.
No need to invest in a air pump because it takes very little pumping on a bicycle pump to pump them up.
You can run a line for each bag, but I do not recommend that because having them together keeps you with the SAME ride height/charactoristics on both sides.

I used Monroe "Sensa-trak" shockes on the rear of mine.

There's another option if you want to increase load capacity. I installed the following coil-over shocks on the rear of my 98-Winnie almost two years ago.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=60659

They increased the ride height ever so slightly, and now it doesn't look like a low-rider when I'm cruising with 6 adults in the van. They're sold by the pair (~$90/pair) and they might be eligible for the rebate. Installation was real easy....like an hour or less for both.

Here is a quote from a fellow forum member that changed his Windstar rear springs.He carried 500 lbs of tools constantly and needed a heavier spring.

Well I have the ride height I was looking for. Had new springs installed and must say that I am happy. FYI the springs that were used were a variable rate coil part# RV820 (cc820). The part number may not do you any good but the springs fit (front coil) 1990-1996 Ford Bronco, 1975-1991 E150 Van, or 1980-1996 F100/150. I took a couple of pics after the springs were installed. My van is loaded down in the rear with about 500lbs. The rear height of the vehicle (road to top of wheel well) is actually only 3/4 of an inch higher in the back. The ride is still smooth, a little stiff over rough roads, but the vehicle is much more stable when turning. All in all I am very happy!!

Thanks to everyone who responded. Good to see you guys (you know who ya are) still here. :)

I don't want to increase load capacity per say, but if I load it up with 7 people and luggage I think the van shouldn't need air bags or stiffer/stronger springs etc... to keep it from bottoming out. What wiswind said... I'm more interested in keeping it the normal "unloaded" ride height and keep it from bottoming, but also..... 50% of what I want is a firmer and less wobbly ride... more responsiveness in the springs I guess is what I'm looking for.

grog - Thanks for that post about those variable rate springs.

lord Kelvin - those adjusted Monroe's look kinda cool. Wiswind - is that the kind of Sensa-Trac's you have or are yours non-adjustable?

No comments on the heavy duty variable rate springs in our Winnie's?

Also, if I change the back springs, should I consider also changing the fronts too to match?

I guess its too hard to find out, but I was hoping someone else had tried the heavy duty variable rate springs and could comment on a comparison of those and the OEM's.

I guess its too hard to find out, but I was hoping someone else had tried the heavy duty variable rate springs and could comment on a comparison of those and the OEM's.

You should perhaps consider ordering the springs that came with the Cargo Winnie, it rides like a pickup truck, a comfortable pickup. I don't know if it requires different shocks though.

You should perhaps consider ordering the springs that came with the Cargo Winnie, it rides like a pickup truck, a comfortable pickup. I don't know if it requires different shocks though.

The cargo model has the same suspension springs, and shocks.

Coil springs can be tested to height specifications and load capacity by any good spring shop. Your old springs may be relaxing and causing your problem with bottoming out with a heavy load. You may want to just get new springs and shocks. I am betting that will solve your problem. Remember shocks only dampen the coil springs action.

You should perhaps consider ordering the springs that came with the Cargo Winnie, it rides like a pickup truck, a comfortable pickup. I don't know if it requires different shocks though.

On the rockauto link I cited (I think) they list different springs for the Windstar cargo van/truck for upgrading to heavy duty..... so you have Windstar minivan heavy duty variable rate spring upgrades and you have Windstar cargo van/truck ones you could go with too, but those increase the ride height a whole inch too, where the ones listed as "heavy duty" upgrades for the minivan model say 12" and the cargo ones say 13" (load height is what i'm saying is ride height here).... I wonder what the OEM load/ride height is and how you measure that?

lord Kelvin - How do those coilovers ride? Did you keep the stock springs on as well when putting on those coilovers, so that you would've ended up having the 2 coilovers + 2 stock coil springs in the rear full time?

Windstartled - Like the name. LOL - Umm... Does it cause the van to ride too high IN your HUMBLE OPINION?

To comment on the air bags - wouldn't I have to maintain air pressure in them just like you do the tires? Aren't they gonna lose pressure over time?

Windstartled - Like the name. LOL - Umm... Does it cause the van to ride too high IN your HUMBLE OPINION?

To comment on the air bags - wouldn't I have to maintain air pressure in them just like you do the tires? Aren't they gonna lose pressure over time?

In my humble opinion riding an inch higher is not enough to induce vertigo :)

To comment on the air bags - wouldn't I have to maintain air pressure in them just like you do the tires? Aren't they gonna lose pressure over time?

I typically keep 10-15 psi in my airbags. I only check the pressure in the airbags once or twice a year, and haven't noticed a loss in pressure.

I'll be the FIRST to say that I'm CHEAP.......
I just looked up the Air Lift 1000 on Amazon.....$87.00 for the 1995 Windstar.
It is Air Lift 1000 60799

Again, I did not have them on my Windstar, but I have them on my Sienna....and the rear spring / shock setup is the same.

What I like about this item is that you can ADJUST it for varying conditions.

The minimum listed pressure is 15 psi........and the maxium is 35 psi.
So...when is is just you......and not much else in the vehicle....you would most likely tool around with around 15psi.....then when you load up.....you would add air to restore the rear end to the "normal" level.
A few pumps on my bicycle pump is all it takes.

The might squeak a bit at first...but they should quiet down in short order.

A heavier spring would most likely cost more (gets my attention) and give you a stiff rear end when it is only you in the vehicle.
Whereas.......the air lift bag will enable you to adjust for the load conditions......and COST LESS (and be easier to install than changing the springs).

One note: The minimum recommended pressure for Airlift 1000 spring airbags is 5 psi (see page 8 here):

http://www.airliftcompany.com/manuals/MN-126_60769.pdf

In my Windstar, I find 10-15 psi about right. I've tried 20 psi - it makes for a noticeably harsh ride. I suspect that 35 psi (the max) would be very uncomfortable.

Thanks for the correction.......makes the point....ALWAYS read the instructions that come with the product......they may differ from an old guy's memory.
However, it does not change my point in that I recommend this product over changing to stiffer springs in most cases.

Shrug and sigh... I dunno. I just try not to add things that I will have to maintain and it just seems with that methodology that getting springs would be good. I just wish I somehow could get the spring rates for the OEM rear coils. I got my CD to run the other day and I couldn't find the info in it. Arrggh... still debating.

I understand where you're coming from - but I also get that minivan springs aren't the sort of thing that generate much interest in the marketplace. I'm not surprised getting detail info on the OEM springs is difficult - and that there aren't many options in the aftermarket.

Meanwhile: Spring info for a Mustang - or performance aftermarket upgrades? No problem...

Exactly.

Once installed (not hard) the air bags are not a high maintenance item.......
The nice thing about them.....you can adjust to what you are using the vehicle for.
I stressed that they do not increase the load capacity of the vehicle because one can really put a lot of weight back there and pump the back end up to the normal ride level........I'm guilty of doing that for VERY short trip between a local Home Depot and my house at low speeds (35mph max speed limit).
It gives you normal ride charactoristics under varying load levels (within rated load levels for the vehicle) so you don't have to worry about the front end performance.
Again, I did not have them on the Windstar, but they work wonders on my Sienna....and I would not hesitate to install them on a Windstar, as the rear end shocks/springs setup is the same.
Phil has even more experience with this than I do.

Hey Searcherrr,

I just tuned into this conversation and I will give you a view from both sides of this discussion.

My wife runs a 98 Windstar Limited. It came factory equipped with air ride suspension in the back. This means it came with self levelling hardware (sensors and compressor) and software that automatically did all the work to level out the rear and adjust the ride based on the load in the back. And there is NO DEBATING IT, this was THE most comfortable and fun ride system. I can totally relate to what wiswind is saying. Once you have enjoyed the benefits of an air ride system, anything else is a step down.

Notice how the above comments were made in the past tense? The compressor for our air ride system failed about a year ago. (Approx 12 years and 150,000 Kms of service). We searched long and hard for a new replacement, but none were available, only rebuilds. Also, we realized that the air lines, the airbags, the solenoids etc would also each eventually reach the end of their service lives, causing further down times, expenses, inconveniences etc.

So, we had the Winnie converted to variable coil springs and matching shocks. Unfortunately, I don't have technicals on the parts as we have an awesome mechanic, and we left all that up to him.

Now, unloaded, the Winnie sits maybe a half inch higher (only noticeable if you look for it) and rides slightly bouncier unloaded. Loaded with four to seven passengers, it sits like any other loaded Windstar GL, but rides almost, almost as well as before.

The coils do allow a little more body roll in the turns, when I push the limits. The wife's driving is more normal, and she doesn't notice any additional body roll.

The things I want to point out from our experience are:
- Nothing compares to the comfort and utility of the air ride.
- Our OE system started failing after 12 years. (How long do you plan on keeping your winnie? I love our winnie, and plan to enjoy it as a collector!)
- Variable rate coils are a great compromise between the air ride and the regular coils. We are very happy with our conversion. Almost as happy as we would have been if we had had the air ride again.
- If you can, go for the air spring conversion or assist, ideally with the on-board compressor. (Check out Airlift as well as Firestone.)
- If you can't, or don't want to go for the air system, then variable rate coils are your answer.

Searcherrr, I hope this is helpful. Do keep us posted on on your thoughts and decisions.

Wishing you happy motoring in your Winnie!

I will post back guys. I welcome further input too and thank ya'll for what you've written thus far.

I have decided to go with this setup.

MONROE Part # 37110 - Sensa-Trac Light Truck
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=60500

MOOG Part # 80102 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/images/MoreInfo2.png (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=566020) Sold In Pairs
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/images/us.gif (http://www.rockauto.com/lang/en/answers.html#flags) http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/images/ca.gif (http://www.rockauto.com/lang/en/answers.html#flags) Frt Susp; w/A/C; Constant Rate Spring
http://www.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=566020&imageurl=http%3A//www.rockauto.com/info/Moog/80102_TOP.jpg


MOOG Part # CC875 http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/images/MoreInfo2.png (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=566127) Sold In Pairs
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/images/us.gif (http://www.rockauto.com/lang/en/answers.html#flags) http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/images/ca.gif (http://www.rockauto.com/lang/en/answers.html#flags) Rr Susp; 4 Door; Heavy Duty Replacement; Variable Rate Springs
http://www.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=566127&imageurl=http%3A//www.rockauto.com/info/Moog/CC875_TOP.jpg

I'm doing the front because I have noticed recently that the van leans on one side (I think its actually the passenger side) and I don't know for sure if its the rear or front springs that are the cause. I'd think that it would be the rears since the shocks are blown there, but it would seem it would lean more if a front coil spring was old or sagging. In any case this will set me up for a good while.

I'm also considering getting a rear sway bar I found by accident too.
http://www.andysautosport.com/ford/1995_1998_windstar/suspension/sway_bars/addco/adco00000302.html

Think I'm coo-coo? :screwy::runaround:

LOL :iceslolan:icon16:

What ya'll think of these choices?

Front springs were known to rust in salt areas like near seashore and the road salt in winter areas.
Mine broke on 1 side up HIGH...... it is a possiblility.
When I was faced with that......I had the Monroe "Quick Struts" installed.
If you want specific springs.......I would put them on NEW struts.......I just don't see the point in putting new springs on really old / high mileage struts.
Also.....on an old vehicle.....I would consider new upper mount plates & bearings.
Would be a shame to mount new springs.....and then have to take it apart again because a strut mount/bearing started squaking.....and disturbing them could do that.

Moog is a good brand.

Yeah, I did order new mounts. I'll have to look to see if they came with new bearings.

I feel the same way about the front struts, but I didn't order them because they said they weren't leaking & I'm pretty sure I did replace them when i had the new engine put in about 26k miles back. I will have to check my records though, cause I agree. I just didn't want to foot the extra $$ if they weren't leaking. lol

Turns out the front struts are about 40k miles old, from 2006. lol - Kinda in the middle huh? Would ya'll replace'm?

Turns out the front struts are about 40k miles old, from 2006. lol - Kinda in the middle huh? Would ya'll replace'm?

Yes, heck the average age of $15 junkyard struts is less than that.

Well, I just bought a couple front ones too. Moog. $60 a piece.

I also just bought this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/120654822822?item=120654822822
Addco 646 Rear Anti Sway Bar Stabilizer Roll

So, the verdict is in for sure, even though it still doesn't idle right (Wiswind knows it too... lol) looks like I'm keeping it for a while and the suspension should be better than its ever been before. I know its just an old van to most, but I can't wait to drive it once all this is done.

So, I await 3 more boxes of parts. I have 3 boxes so far. :)

All-in-all.... this will be a total of about $1300 - $1400 parts and labor. I could've gotten away with $1100 without adding the sway bar and front struts, but I don't know when or if I'll ever do this again and the engine and tranny are still young so..... this will be a good upgrade.

Still better than a car note.

After this, I will focus on the exterior aesthetics as it needs work bad. I was even thinking about taking the headlights out and seeing if a later model Winnie's hood mount brackets would line up with mine and then seeing if I could put a 99 or higher's headlights in since the 95-98 headlights really suck at night..... but this may require metal work so I dunno.

Am I nuts? Perhaps. :screwy::runaround:

Been waiting on a rear sway bar. LOL - I know ya'll probably think I'm nuts. Its the last piece of the suspension puzzle and then I'm going to the shop to have all this work done.

They will do the following:


New front struts - Monroe Sensatrac's
New front coil springs - Moog
New rear shocks - Monroe Sensatrac's
New rear cargo coil springs - Moog
New camber bolt kits for alignment
2 new front control arms and bushings/bearings
2 new front tires
Front end Alignment
Rear sway bar installation
Already have two new rear tires.

So after this, with all the other subframe bushing improvements I made a long time ago, I'm hoping this thing will ride better than new and corner a lil better (yeah I know) too. I will post back.

Been saving up for all this, and stock piling parts in the mail to get it all done. Kinda excited about this even though its an oldy van.

Bringing it in tomorrow/this morning for all this work. I have a feeling they will tell me to come back Monday instead, but we'll see.

Well, I brought it in and the damage $$ is bad, but I committed to all this a long time back so there is no turning back now. The only bad deal now is that in taking off the driver side knuckle/hub/bearing assembly, the bolt and threads of the bolt and knuckle just completely rounded all the way... ruined.

Now as I've found out it is very difficult to find an assembly like that all together and with the BOLT. I can't even find an OEM replacement set. I can find lots of used stuff on ebay, but no bolt listed. I feel like I'm facing not driving the van again because I can't buy 1 stinking bolt.

Anyone know where I can get this stuff anymore? Know part numbers?

I also forgot to mention that they won't put on the sway bar I waited for all that time too. They say its a modification and they don't do those. I may seek someone that will do it since I have the sway bar set in the box now.

I'd look to a place the does vehicle mods to install that rear sway bar. Shouldn't be hard to find a place. Any place that does lifts (like on jeeps) would surely do it.

After this, I will focus on the exterior aesthetics as it needs work bad. I was even thinking about taking the headlights out and seeing if a later model Winnie's hood mount brackets would line up with mine and then seeing if I could put a 99 or higher's headlights in since the 95-98 headlights really suck at night..... but this may require metal work so I dunno.

I don't think this would work, first and second-generation Winnies don't use the same frame/platform and body parts are quite different. Plus it would look really weird :icon16:

Your headlight lenses are very likely tarnished and yellowed by now, that's why they don't work so good anymore. Fixing this is relatively easy, sometimes all you need is to polish the lenses with a compound such as PlastiX but if the lenses are yellowed by sunlight you will need a lens restore kit (about $30) or take the van to an auto glass shop where they'll do it for $50 or $60. May sound stiff but they'll be like new and you'll be amazed at the difference in performance, not to mention looks. Nice clear headlight lenses make a car look much younger than it is.

You can just order a new headlamp assembly for about $43 each from rockauto. That's what I'd do at least.

Edit: never mind. 95-98 assemblies run about $110 each. (I wonder why?)

Edit: never mind. 95-98 assemblies run about $110 each. (I wonder why?)

Very likely because the first-generation Winnie uses opaque and oddly shaped lenses that are now costlier to manufacture than the clear ones used on second-generation models. That's probably the reason why lens restoration products and services has gained a lot of market these last few years. Judging by the still very high number of cars with barely functional headlights I see on the road nowadays, most people do not realize how simple it is to fix this issue.

I used the 3M lens restorer and it did a pretty good job. FYI it's on sale for less than 10 bucks on amazon right now after a rebate.

http://tinyurl.com/7qotzkz

Its not so much the foggy/yellowing lens. I've already replaced mine headlamp lens a long time ago. Its the fact that the interior isn't well made... the mirroring of the lighting inside the plastic lens is what sucks.... which is why I would want the newer lenses. I do have some brighter bulbs though, that I was gonna try out, but I haven't yet.

Van still sitting at the shop. Waiting on new knuckle and strut mount pinch bolt.

When you get your van back.....while driving with the headlights on....feel the headlamp switch.....if it is warm.....order yourself a new headlamp switch.
Mine was running warm...then I would have intermitten flicker and even going out.
The new switch was cool......
The switch is also the circuit breaker for the headlamps.....

Well, I got the van back and I must say I'm pretty impressed. The bill was hard to swallow, but I feel like it was well worth it. I notice much more stability in cornering. I have to check the air in my tires, cause they feel a lil high (oversteer). They fixed my e-brake too and its in the best shape its ever been in.

THE RIDE - Its wonderful. To me it feels like it should've always felt. The whole van recovers from a bump fast and level just like it should and the rear no longer lets the van lean as much on turns. It corners a lot better and I don't feel all that wobble through the turns. Only thing I notice... the front moog coils feel a lil more bouncy than the stock ones did..... but the ride is great and I'm not complaining. It drives straight and the guy even said he made a special alignment adjustment to compensate for the weight of the driver.

I didn't have them do anything with the brakes because I said I could do it myself, but they said my right front brake caliper is sticking closed and needed the pins relubed and that I needed new pads on that front right as well because of it. Funny enough... I notice the brakes are much more responsive/quicker braking than they were before, so I suspect the guy did a lil magic behind the scenes work on it for me, but I also notice the van seems to kinda come to a shimmy/shake stop when the brakes are pressed now and it didn't do that before. In any case I will just relube the pins and put new pads on and see what happens.

THE RIDE !!! - It really rides wonderful. I'm very happy with it. It makes me want to keep it and get the exterior fixed up.

As for the rear sway bar mod... I'm gonna see if a local mod shop will do it for me after I save up a lil more money, though I'm gonna drive the van a while and see if I even need it.

Wiswind - I'll check that switch next chance I get.

Just wanted to add... I dunno if its the Monroe Sensatrac's or the Moog springs, but while the ride is 1000 times better than it was... it could be a tad be less bouncy on bigger bumps, like when going into an inclined driveway. It recovers very quick and well from the bounce... but at first is pretty bouncy.... though I guess thats a van. I guess I was just looking for something extra firm. Now I know though. In any case I'm set for another 100k miles or more.

Ya'll think that the shocks/struts are going to be discontinued any time soon? I was thinking about buying/storing some stuff since it seems things are being discontinued.... or maybe I should focus on buying what is actually discontinued instead huh? lol - like the knuckles.

I have to say it: When I think about having to pay a car note again for a new van, I really cringe. I really really cringe. I don't ever want a note ever again.... hence why I go to all this repair trouble.