GTO Restoration

I was hoping to wait for a GTO forum for this, but I've waited enough:
For those of you who don't remember, I am the owner of a 1966 GTO which is in pretty poor condition. I got the car last August, and just recently began the restoration. I asked and a few people said they would like me to document the restoration. I will post pics on the link in my signature. Right now, I only have pics of the car in it's originally purchased condition. Since then, my father and I removed much of the front end (bumper, grilles, radiator, etc.).
I will share some info for everyone so you know what I am starting with. It is a 1966 Tempest which is actually a GTO clone. There are some weird things done to the car to make it look like a GTO. It has a 421 c.i. engine with a Holly 4-barrel carburator. It has a almost original black interior. The bluish exterior doesn't really matter... The whole dash is a mess, and the drivers seat is from 1967. Much of the interior is salvagable, but most must be replaced. There is, of course, some extrior rust, but nothing that can't be fixed. I will later explain with pictures and captions on that link in my sig. That will be much easier than all this rambling.
Feel free to ask questions or make comments. I will let you know when the site is updated in this thread and will answer any questions.

Are you restoring this back to a Tempest or actually trying to make it a GTO? or like me just building a rod?

I hope he is trying to make it a original GTO again. It would be tight if he has a 455 to drop in it.:)

I am restoring it to GTO form. However, I am leaving the 421 engine in it rather than a stock 389. We are going to start taking the parts to a sandblaster to get rid of the paint and rust. I will keep you guys updated and keep checking my site. I added 22 pictures of the car in its original condition on the site in my sig. I am goig to the garage in a little to take pictures of the car now and all the removed parts.

I posted a bunch of pics of the car as it is now. The front end is completely removed. Tomorrow we are taking many of the front end pieces to a sandblaster. We will probably also remove the rear bumper and tail lights, the deck lid, the interior, and the front windshield over the weekend. We removed the rear windshield since I took those pics. I will keep you updated and feel free to ask any questions. Make sure you zoom in on the pics and read the captions. The link is in my sig in case you forgot...

Do yourself a favor and put a new blower motor for the heater in while you've got that front clip off.:D I've been trying to find my cheapie digicam so I can get some pics posted of mine thats roughly in the same stage. Although i did hang the fenders on it so I could run it around the block the other weekend.

hey SuPeRcAr_MaN

so what kind of octane do you have to put in your 66 GTO?

Never filled the tank yet... When I bought it, I drove a little on the gas that was left in it, then it sat in the garage until we started working on it... I am thinking Premium... ;)

I am thinking Premium...
Thats it?!?!?!? I would be using some pure racing fuel in that beast supercar_man. ;) Well maybe not, depends on your compression i guess.

Originally posted by Scott 02

Thats it?!?!?!? I would be using some pure racing fuel in that beast supercar_man. ;) Well maybe not, depends on your compression i guess.

I am not looking to spend a ton of money on gas. And plus I won't be driving this car all-year around. It's a summer driver. And it also depends on what carburator I end up with. I don't think I am staying with the Holly 4 brl.

thats good, i want to see pictures when its all completed.;)

Originally posted by Scott 02
thats good, i want to see pictures when its all completed.;)

Oh don't worry you will see a lot. Since the last pictures were taken, the front and back windshields were taken out. Most of the chrome moldings are off. The deck lid, rear bumper, and brake lights are gone. Nect is the interior. I will keep you all updated.

well good luck. hope it turns out nice for you.

Hey there, Not that I think you should leave this site, but I'd seriously check out www.performanceyears.com. You'll get all the info you'll need for restoring your Poncho there.

Quick point... a resto to original would make it a Tempest... GTO was a considered separate model from '66 on. Not sure if the Tempest came with a 389... Real GTOs certainly did and came with the famous Tri-power carb set up. The Tri-power carbs can be a trick to get all working just right unless you start with properly rebuilt parts.

The 421 mill will be significant to say the least, but, if you aren't interested in going totally original, consider using either the 389 or get a 400 and go with a RamAir package... That's a solid set up.

It can also be worth your while to find a GTO club in your neck of the woods. I've received tons of advice and super help from the club up here!

Good luck!

p.s. just took a look at your pictures... are you sure that's not a 400cid block? Check with some of the resto books for the code locations. Also, there's a single master cylinder... do yourself a favour and either; get a correct Dual Master cylinder and/or upgrade with a power booster... or... do a conversion to disc brakes on the front. These cars are hard enough to stop as it is.

While you have things apart you may want to get the tranny checked out, and if you have any problems with the heater core now the time to replace is while the engine is out... it's pretty much impossible to change otherwise.

Thanks for the tips gtojack. We did research on the engine numbers, and it is a 421 c.i. engine. The stock GTOs, like you said, would have had a 389 with tri-power as an option. I am restoring it to GTO form becaue like you said, full restoration would turn it into a Tempest, not that there was much difference between the two. I am keeping the 421 engine. I consider myself lucky to find a car with such a big block. I am going to look for a GTO club around here, but I don't think that will be easy. I appreciate your interest, and you can see pictures on the site in my signature below...

That'll be one sweet ride when you are done. Maybe we'll see you at Woodward or one of the US/Canada GTO club events... who knows!
Cheers, GTOJack

Just got a lot of work done today. I didn't take pictures yet, but I will. The interior is completely out except the dash. The seats, console, carpet, headliner, windows, and doors are gone. We have a little cleaning up to do, then we will take out the dash. Then we will take a bunch of parts to the sandblaster to get the paint stripped. I will take more pictures when I get a chance, maybe tonight. Later guys...

Good luck on this, my dad use to have a 67 GTO with a 400 and ended up trading it for a Cuda, not sure about everything, he's a little soft when it comes to talkin about these cars he had considering a day after the trade the bitch that had the GTO ran it into the back of a semi totalling it. But on my way to go jet skiing this past weekend seen a nice silver GTO:eek: I want to go up there soon to look at it, but the guy restores old cars and sells them, he als has a Cuda, Superbee, a Camaro, and some other car, I cant look at all the cars going by at 70 mph but the GTO and Superbee were slick. I'd give a left nut to have either one of those cars. But I really can't wait till your done with yours. If I was in your position i wouldn't know what to do with the engine, take the 421 put dual carburators on it and have some forced induction on her and save the 389.

I just added some more pictures of what the car looks like now. I didn't add captions yet, so you may not know what every picture is, but most of them are obvious.

A little VIN info for you: 235176B601607

1st digit - 2 - division - Pontiac
2nd & 3rd digit - 35 - series- Tempest Custom
4th & 5th digit - 17 - Body Code - Two door coupe
6th digit - Model Yr - 9 - 1966
7th digit - Assembly Plant - B - Baltimore Md.
Last 6 digits - Production Seq. - 601607 - #1607 of the line

Prod Seq. starting at 600001 at all plants, except V8 models which started at 100001.

Thats from a list I found somewhere on the net i you would like a copy I can E-mail it to you. Though its just a cut and paste I did to a notebook file.

Floors don't look too bad. Atleast you shouldn't have to cut huge sections out. Just remember taking it all apart is the easy part...LOL :D But your probably further along on yours than I am on my Lemans although I'm not taking mine apart as far as you are (doesn't need it). Damm scanner went to hell and am still tryin to get it going so I can post some pics. Keep the pics coming man love to see the progress.

Thanks for the serial info. I would love to see some pictures of your LeMans if you can get any to work. You really should invest in a digital camera, it makes things a lot easier. We plan on lifting the body from the frame and rolling the chassis out to work on the two pieces seperately. When we get the parts back from the sanblaster and strip the paint off the body, then we will have to cut the rusty parts away. I think I am going to start ordering parts very soon. I will need the patches and pans ready to be welded on. I will definitely keep you guys updated and post pics of the bare body parts when I get them. Thanks for your interest.

you do realize that you've got a 66-67 combo there, don't you? The chrome mesh grills were only on the 67s while the grey surround and the louvered taillights are true for the 66.

Considering that you are making a GTO out of a LeMans, why not go ahead and make a 66-7 combo? The grills from a 67 are way cooler - though you should get the black surrounds (available through Ames Performance, Year One, or most of the other GTO parts places) because they make the grills stand out very nicely.

And the tail lights from the 66 are more interesting.

Your rocker panel along the side are easier to deal with for a 66 than a 67 as well... so hang on to those. Just remember to put the GTO 6.5 litre badge in the right spot on the fender rather than on the rocker like the 67's.

From the photos I can't tell if you have the wheel well mouldings or not. If not, you should add that as they really showcase the tires & wheels.

And finally... I'm not sure about your steering wheel. It's either a 66 or specific to the Tempest/Lemans. The GTO wheel was different (and if you have deep pockets, get the wooden wheel which was an option for 67 and maybe 66).

I am going straight '66. The only 1967 pieces on there are the grilles, and they were oddly fit into the car. The rocker panels, and much of the bottom of the car, need chrome moldings. I know a ton about this car so I don't plan on messing up anything like the logos. The hard parts of the work are coming up, so I will be sure to keep you guys updated.

Hey guys. I got parts back from the sanblaster, sanded and primed. It was the fenders, core support, and nose piece, in case I didn't already mention. They look pretty good overall, some patching needed here and there. Pretty soon, the hood and doors will get blasted. I'll let you all know...

Little update... I didn't get any more parts down to the sanblaster, but some minor progress was made. I got the exaust system and the steering column/wheel out. I need some advice. This car has exhaust headers. I was told by a fellow GTO owner to get rid of them, but my father thinks I should keep them. And moderators, I mentioned this in the GTO forum, but in case you didn't see: I have a request for this thread to be moved from here to the GTo forum. I would appreiate it a lot. Thanks.

I have a request for this thread to be moved from here to the GTo forum. I would appreiate it a lot. Thanks.
We have a GTO forum? Awsome. :sunglasse Good luck with your GTO SuPeRcAr_MaN.

I found a good book for Pontiac serial numbers. I checked all my engine numbers, and it turns out the block is a 400. It makes more sense, but it disappoints me. It really makes me want to sell it and get a 389 tri-power. I will let you guys know what happens....

I think you are far better off with the 400! The 389 is a great mill, but the tri-power set up can be a real pain in the a$$ to keep tuned right.

With the 400, you can quite easily turn it into a RAM air car - more HP than the tri-power as well.

I've got a Demon Carb (just as good as a Holley, but less $$), K&N filter, aluminium headers, 2.5" pipes with cross tube. And with new cam, crank, cylinders and valves I'm probably putting out 385hp.

The more I've done to my car, the more I realize that the way to go (especially for someone in your position) is to get the exterior and interior looking 100% stock... then have a little fun with the mechanicals (bigger sway bar, engine mods, etc.). You end up with a classic looking ride that drives much better than the original!

If you're ever looking for GTO info/numbers/etc. feel free to send me a message (gtojack67@yahoo.ca)... I've got tons of books and info for '66-7. And make sure to check in with the '66/7 GTO forum over at www.performanceyears.com. That's where the GTO folks are and you'll get better answers, quicker there than here

Keep the greasy side down, and the shiny side up.

The thing is, the 400 engine was not available until 1967. For me to keep it in a 1966 would be against the factory setup I am going for. When I started looking for a GTO, I was looking for a tri-power 389 setup, and I was willing to settle for a 389 without the three deuces. I think I will keep the engine, for a while at least. It's pretty pricey to find an almost full 389 engine setup, especially with a tri-power. AndI know what you mean about it being difficult to keep the three carbs tuned right. I am disappointed that it wasn't a 421, but I will certainly make due with the 400.

thread moved as you requested:cool:

But from what I remember about your car, it's not really a GTO, it's a tempest or lemans, right? And you are going with the '67 grills anyway so you don't worry about the engine. Besides, if you've got an engine you can at least have fun driving the car and can always swap motors at a later date. (HA! I make that sound like changing your shirt!)

I know what you are going through though... I find it tough to make similar decisions for my numbers matching '67!

Personally, I'd love to get my hands on a tempest/lemans and make it look like a GTO but with fully modern engine, suspension, steering, exhaust, brakes, etc. Can't do it to mine... it's been in the family since new so...

I said previously that I am NOT using the '67 grilles. I am going with the complete '66 GTO look, no Tempest or anything. I am going to use some modern parts: exhaust system, brakes, some engine parts, and probably the rear. About brakes, I was thinking discs in the front, drums in rear? Let me know what you think... I'll let you know when I do some work again, hopefully get the body off the frame...

Jim, thanks a lot for moving this thread...

:sorry:Sorry about that ... I didn't remember you saying that you weren't going to use the '67 grills. ( :wink:thinking of selling them? :thinkerg: )

Yeah, definitely go with power disc brakes on the front. I've got manual drums and let me tell you, they really start to fade under hard braking from high speed - came close to filling my pants a couple of times!

Trick with disc brakes is getting the right spindles. You have two options...
1. go with original stuff - finding '66-7 spindles is tough (or costly) but you can use the spindles from a 68-9. Make sure you talk with the dudes over at the GTO site as there are some tricks that they can make you aware of.
2. buy a whole disc conversion kit. Usually more expensive than option one but could be the easier way to go in the long run.
(even though I have everything I need to do the conversion using original/rebuilt parts I'm still toying with the kit idea!)

Another thing you should think about while you've got it apart is to put in some serious (1 1/4") sway bars front and rear.

And one final tip... what size exhaust are you thinking of? I went with the 2.5" pipes and they improved the flow so much that I had to go with an aftermarket carb to get more air in. (I still have all the original stuff if I ever want to go back to 100% stock.) Nice thing about this set up is that I'm actually getting a lot more power and better fuel mileage (which is never great so don't get too excited!). I figure with the minor tweaks the 400 has gone from putting out 335hp to 385hp.

Which is why paying attention to stopping and turning is so important - right?! :cool:

I definitely want to get that kind of HP out of my 400... I wasn't really thinking about my exhaust yet, except I was considering going with FlowMaster. I was also thinking about getting a Ram Air kit, which I heard provides a noticable performance boost... About the brakes, I was going to buy the whole disc conversion kit. Right now, I don't even have power drums...

And another thing I forgot to mention... We found out that my car was originally an automatic... That's not surprising considering the crooked clutch pivot and the way the floor was cut up around the shifter...

Just a quick update. I ordered a few parts for the Goat last week from a local GM muscle car parts store. I got a three-piece trunk kit and a tail panel, the piece surronding the tail lights... At least one of these items will be welded in place before I lift the body of to reduce the chance of twisting the body. The trunk and tail are very weak and rusted, so that is why I wanted to take these extra precautions. Also, for anybody looking for parts for there '64-'74 Pontiac, I got an excellent catalog. The website is http://performanceyears.com/newsite/index.html and you can order parts online or order a free catalog, which is what I did. Great parts for all Pontiacs in that year range...

Thanks for the info (though I've been saying that you should check out Performance Years - and the most comprehensive GTO forums on the web - for what, a month and a half now? :icesangel ). Seriously though, the more info transfered the better.

Here are a couple of other sites/companies you should know about ...
http://www.amesperformance.com (excellent parts)
http://www.yearone.com (Excellent parts)
http://www.gtoaa.org (GTO Association of America - great links!)
http://www.gtoheaven.com/links.html (intersting Goat stuff)
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1932/ (check out the links!!)
http://www.ultimategto.com (lots of photos)
http://www.classicalpontiac.com/ (lots of general info & stuff)
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/pontiac-gto/pontiac-gto.shtml (general car club, can get decent info there)
http://www.phs-online.com/ (Pontiac Historical Services - you can get all the original build info for your car!)
http://www.goatsgarage.com/ (this fellow is doing a resto on a '66 goat)

Sorry, I forgot that you had posted about Performance Years previously. However, I did know about that site for a while and ordered a catalog months ago, it just arrived and that is why I mentioned it in that last post. Thanks for all those sites, I have only been to a couple of them.

I got a new compressor and the parts I ordered (trunk and tail panel) are expected to arrive Monday. The holiday really messed up the order... I am thinking more and more about the engine. I will probably keep the 400 and get as much power as I can out of it. I would really appreciate it if you would let me know what else I can do to squeese some HP out of the 400 block... I have to look into getting some sway bars like you mentioned... I'll make sure to update when the parts come in and we get them on the car. Not long till the body is off the frame and sandblasted and primed. I can't wait.

On one hand I'm jealous that not only do you have such a cool project to work on, but also that you've got the space and knowledge to do it! Wish you were around the corner... I'd be over helping out every step of the way - if only to learn a few things!

I'll put my thinking cap on re: increasing HP.

Cheers.

I really appreciate that... I too wish I lived around the corner from you, or any other GTO enthusiast. I'll be calling my friend shortly to see if the parts came in... He works at a store called Northeast Chevelle, but don't let the name trick you, they sell parts for every GM muscle car. That reminds me... Friday, they got a big parts shipment at the store, and my friend asked me to help move stuff around and put some parts into storage. I have been in the store before, but never behind it, or in the space between the store and the storage garages. Well in that space, there is a '70 Chevelle SS 454, a '69 Olds 442 350, and a '74 El Camino 454. It was pretty cool to see those three cars just sitting there. Unfortunately, they weren't in mint condition. They were restorable, but not running, and the El Camino didn't have an engine. I just thought I would share that little story, and I'll be letting you all know what's going on...

The coolest thing just happened. My dad wanted me to go down to the garage where my GTO is... I figured it was just because we had a few tools to drop off. But I get there, open the door, and see a beautiful '66 LeMans sitting behind my Goat. It is dark read with a vinal top and an overhead cam 6-cylindar. It is in very very good condition. Just some peeling on the vinal roof, dented rear bumper, and the driver's door rubs the fender when you open it. It is an automatic, sadly on the column, no console... all the chrome is in great shape, as is the interior. It runs beautifully, and it's pretty quick for a six. I guess this will be my driver, and my dad's, untill the GTO is finished. Speaking of the Goat, the trunk kit is in, and the tail panel should be in sometime this week. It's been kinda slow lately, but we'll get moving, and I'll be sure to let everyone know. I'll have pictures of the LeMans and a few more of the GTO when I stop being lazy...

1966-67 GTO's are great cars. I used to have one and I really miss it. Do you have anymore pics? I have a few parts for those cars if your interested. As for getting 400hp out of a 400cu. that is not real hard at all. A few good sources for pontiac performance parts are Rock n Roll Engineering and Jim Butler Performance. With there help my buddies 400 powered trans am ran low 12s. Pontiacs make good power without spending outrageous money.

I'd be very interested in some parts for my car. A list of anything you have could be great. You could post it here or PM me, it doesn't matter to me... About the pictures, most of them I took are posted on that link in my sig. I am going to take a bunch more very soon and I will get them on there ASAP. It would be great if I could get some more info on those people you listed to get more HP out of my engine. Thanks.

In case anyone cares, I added a few more pics of the GTO and 14 of the "new" LeMans.

My recomendation is to sell that 421ci those things can bring in quite a bit of money. they are RARE. But in all seriousness a 400 block is the best bet, they are cheaper to build and can be built with more streetable, economic power. the shorter stroke really helps. the 455 is also a good option but the 4.21-4.25 inch stroke really give the rev's a slow down and really gives the rods a run for there money. PLUS if the motor is coming apart replace the connecting rods with forged units the cast ones have a tendancy to come apart on the intake stroke.
As for the tranny if you are looking for a really strong tranny for $1800 you can get a brand spankin new aftermarket M22, capable of withstanding over 1000 hp, at www.autogear.net
good luck

your post asked about parts
If you need connecting rods i have a set of forged Child & Alberts connecting rods for pontiacs, and i have a few sets of headlight bezels that are in somewhat good condition. If you have any questions about parts, I have a '67 LeMans i'm building, with extras. My E-mail is ProwlinTiger@comcast.net
Good luck guys

Thanks for the info Poncho. I saved your e-mail and I'll be sure to e-mail you if I need to know something about the 400 block I got. Thanks a lot.

seriously, if youve never heard of a tornado, your missing out. its 2 metal peices that hook into your intake, that dont move. they are just metal peices bent so they make your air/feul mix way better. it helps hp and gas milage and is very cheap, plus reduces HC and CO emissions. check out their site. http://www.tornadoair.com/index.php the tornado selector tells you which size you need, but it only goes down to 1970, but im sure that would fit a 66

i would also recommend keeping the 400 but mabye rebuilding it including getting it bored. i would also try comp cams, that would significantly increase hp, UP TO a 102 hp increase. hard to believe i know, but true. plus new forged connecting rods and flatheads. now that ive started, mabye you could get bigger, and straighter exhaust pipes, and, if you have a good cooling system, a turbocharger. that could get expensive though.

That TornadoAir is pretty interesting. I'll have to look into it a little more. Spooky, and engine rebuild and a great exhaust are a definite. I don't know about boring the engine or adding a ton of aftermarket parts into it. I'm not going for a drag car thing, just something that will lay down some rubber and stick you to the seat. I thank everyone for your replies and keep the suggestions coming.

Checked the Tornado Air and they don't make one for my engine.

the tornado air works for all engines, its just you need the right size to fit your intake. i would imagine the 1970 gto one would fit yours, mabye you could ask them

i would definitly get a flowmaster, they are the best at not creating exhaust backup, and they sound awsome

btw are you keeping that manual? look into getting an original gto shifter. and it would probably be a good idea too re-carpet over that cut up stuff. well, and whole interior i think you said you were re-doing

btw where did you find that thing? id expect a jumkyard or salvage yard to sell that cheap or free

I was planning to go with a FlowMaster exhaust system. I am keeping it manual and the original trannie and shifter is still in the car. I am redoing the ENTIRE interior. I found this at an auto repair/sales and motorcycle shop in Hatboro, PA, a northern suberb of Philadelphia.

in my opinion, 1966 GTO looks best with black or red exterior, and white leather interior

http://search.ebay.com/ws/search/GetResult?sosortorder=1&basicsearch=&ht=0&sosortproperty=1&satitle=GTO&from=R10&sacategory=6030&sorecordstoskip=0

you may just be impressed

Thanks for the link, but I already search eBay often for GTO parts. I try to order from catalogs, but when I can't find something or I want to try to get a good deal, I go to eBay.

Abou the colors, I am almost definitely going with a blue, either royal or midnight, exterior and a white interior. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2426912394&category=7244 I don't know if that page will work for you because the auction has been ended for some time now, but that custom interior looks great too. I have a while to go though before I pick my colors.