Well it's happened again; another school shooting.

14 year old kills school principal, then himself. Story here:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/04/24/school.shooting/index.html


Why does this happen more and more? This is my wild guess...someone feel free to correct me (civilly) or discuss.

There was a time back in the old days were children were taught to respect their elders and also that they had to earn respect to get it. A the same time the most important focus in life was your family and taking care of them.

Then came a movement (probably in the 60s) where the attitude was to "Question Authority" remember those bumper stickers? So rather than allowing themselves to be taught about respect etc, young people decided that they didn't need elders telling them what to do so they began to rebel and "do their own thing." And they continued to do their own thing, even if it meant putting themselves and their priorities above their families, especially their children....and it has all gone downhill from there.

So as a result the family structure and a respectable society as some once knew it has deteriorated into a cespool of hate (whether of self or others), selfishness, arrogance, materialism, etc etc etc.

My impression of the world as it is today: Everyone is out for themselves, and no one cares about anything except getting their way. I see this attitude on the road amongst drivers, among those in the working world, even at church sadly.

Someone say blame video games. Although I love playing games and doing other various forms of entertainment, that is a small part of the problem. TV has become America's modern day babysitter. It's so much easier to sit your kids down to a 3 hour Barney-fest and do your own thing around the house than it is to mind them and keep an eye on what they are doing and having to deal with them in general. Video games...same thing. And parents don't take the time to explain to their kids that the violence in games is not an appropriate way to act out in real life.

Sadly kids like this (the ones who go to school and shoot the place up) have more serious issues than just being the unaccepted nerd everyone made fun of or whatever their reasoning is. There are issues at home. Perhaps not enough attention paid or perhaps an abusive household. Who knows? Not everyone at school is popular or accepted, that is a given. But when you are young and don't feel comfortable at school AND don;t feel comfortable at home, smeg's gonna hit the fan emotionally for that child.

I have been there....the unaccepted nerd...I used to get my ass kicked every other Friday literally in jr. high. My parents did their best to protect me, they went to the school, even the police when the school did nothing. Nothing ever really came of that deal but the important thing was I knew my parents tried and didn't ignore this. I think that alone helped me realize it wasn;t me that had the problem and that parents did what they could and it showed me that I was important to them. Of course since the school did nothing at all, it made me lose my faith in our educational system....and this was still in the days where shooting up a school was unheard of.

So all in all, I think it's the "question authority" movement that started this all and caused parents to disregard their children's well-being, and pretty much continued to the downward spiral of where we as a society are at today.

So that is my hypothesis. Discuss.

Yeah I have to say I'm really really glad where I am at my school is small(around 350 students) everyone knows everyone and get along pretty good with the exception of a few people but I know they wouldn't do something stupid like that also I'm also happy I am graduating this year because next year they are making Super Schools in my area they are putting our school in with the 2 biggest schools in the county so I know a lot a bad stuff will happen there.

I agree with most of what you said, except for the video games part.

I must clarify what I say here. I am an avid PC and console gamer, have been for a long time. I've played games like Doom, Mortal Kombat, Wolfenstein 3D, and the like. I get frustrated when I get stuck on them, but I don't get into a white hot rage and go out and try to kill people.

I was picked on in HS too. Relentlessly. I got my share of ass-kickings too. Mom and Dad helped out, but who really helped me out were my brothers. They were, and continue to be, the best friends I've ever had. They'd fight for me, stick up for me, whatever, and they were even littler than I was(at the time, now the youngest is 20 pounds heavier and 2 inches taller, LOL!).

My point is this: kids that do this shit aren't right. If your mind is so warped that you decide to act out what you played in Doom, then that's not the game's fault.

How did they get that warped? Improper home life. My folks were always there for me, as were my bros. I would come home feeling like stomped shit, and after an hour at home, I was happy and free again. Not every kid gets that.

Bottom line: parents need to take an active role in their kids lives. They want to play the video games? Play the damn things with them! Want to watch TV? Do that with them too. And for God's sake, ask questions. Who-what-where-when-why-how. They'll feel like you're a damned Inquisition interrogator after awhile, but they'll appreciate the fact you care, too.

Well damn, that turned into a rant. Sorry about that. :p

Scary thought is Red Lion is only a couple of miles from my work.....it was all over the radio right after it happened here......

Another tragedy. :( Like so many others have said, these kids aren't just sad b/c someone made fun of them at school. I wasn't really picked-on, but instead I just didn't exist. No one knew my name, and I was just kinda ignored. Did I end up shooting everyone??? NO. There are MANY underlying issues with these kids. Some may be suicidal, others deeply bipolar, and who knows what else???

i believe that we hear about it more and more because we see it so much on the news and i think other children get the i deas from what other kids do. if we keep on televising the story over and over its bound to get stuckj in someones head and will suface somtime or another. that just my take, also becuae its too easy to get your hands on a gun these days

In regard to what Atomis27 is saying, no I am not blaming video games...some say they are to blame (in general). Everytime a kid does something of this nature the media or parents groups start decrying the violence of video games. I'll bet a few pennies that in the next few days violent video games, music, or some sort of entertainment industry will be the topic on some talk or radio show in light of this event. I believe it is a very SMALL part of the problem just because it could give kids ideas. Yes, you are right about something being wrong with someone if they are gonna act out something from Doom or another game. And I am sure there is a small percentage that have ALLOWED that to affect them. It sucks that we have to think like this but as many have said and will say, when there's no parent there to support the kid(s) then they are gonna rely on peers, entertainment and other sources for their role models.

I believe deep down all children want to be accepted and supported by parents, even when they get to that age where being seen in public with your parents isn't cool :p It's not like they want to be spanked, grounded or disciplined, but I notice the ones who have been kept in check tend to have better self esteem, get into less trouble, and do better in life with careers and personal relationships. Some of my high school friends who were given free rein still work minimum wage jobs while trying to support kids, make ends meet, and have gone thru more broken relationships than I have socks in my drawer. Its a sad sad world.

Or, maybe he was just a dork who has done the whole world a service by ridding it of himself.

If you can't accept your problems or dilemmas, than for all sakes and purposes change them for the better! there is no reason to make things worse, killing the princpal did not help anybody in any way, perhaps killing himself did - now nobody has to deal with him anymore.
Everybody has problems, most people have enough brains to solve them in a logical manor, some people don't.

And now people are going to blame everything but the actual cause of the problem, it's easier to say that it was video games or violent movies that made your child do something like this, it's harder to say, well maybe he was just a dork, or maybe we should've given him more attention, or maybe we should have raised him up better, etc. etc.

I am not even going to begin to re-explain my feelings about violent video games, and gun control in the US, because I am sure all of you either know my thoughts and dont want to hear them again, or disagree with them and I wont post them incase it starts a huge argument.

What i would like to convey once again is my thoughts about parenting. Refering to KatWoman's orginal post, I believe that some members of the generation of anti-authoritants (is that even a word?) are the cause of the state of society. Because of their discontent with authority in the past, many of these people have refused to take responsibility, and become the authority to their children. Combined with todays fast pace world, many children are living in a world without parental love, and rules.

Sure, rules may seem like a stupid idea to the kids, but even the ones who choose to break the rules (even the simple ones we learn as a kid that seem insignificant and stupid later in life) are learning an importent lesson. By breaking rules, they are learning consequences and limits to what is acceptable and what isn't in society. For the most part, kids, even the rule breaking kids (isn't that all kids though? :p) turn out fine.

There are some though, who are not repremanded, and do not learn anything. These are the kids who live in a life without competent supervision, and in turn are the prime victims to a lead a life without consequences and meaning.

These are the kids, who shoot their peers without remorse.

The kid was an idiot for taking out his frustrations that way, and the parents were idiots for the OBVIOUS lack of attention they payed to him. First off, I am a firm believer in parental responsibility in guiding their children, YOU did the deed, YOU carried the child to term, YOU raise it, and raise it well. I don't care how rich or poor a family is, all the material possesions in the world can't take the place of a caring parent (or guardian, depending on the situation.) Likewise, no matter how poor a family is, the old saying "all you need is love" is very accurate. Now, that being said, I also blame the kid. So many people nowadays blame videogames (etc. etc., we all share the same feelings on the laughability of that cop-out, I think) and they also blame the parents, which, as I've already said, is DEFINATELY the major factor. However, the damn kid was 14 YEARS OLD. More than old enough to know better. I call him an IDIOT because he obviously didn't have the capacity to know right from wrong in this case, NOR, obviously, did he even BEGIN to think about the ramifications. I don't care how screwed up a person is, it is just common knowledge that one does NOT solve their problems by shooting people, even if you don't get that message at home, EVERYONE gets it at one time or another. And, as tough as it is for most people to swallow this opinion, I find it difficult to feel any sympathy for the kid, only for the other life he took along with his own. I'd prefer that he'd skipped over the whole "killing innocent people" thing, and, if he felt the world had done him some sort of grievous injustice (boo-hoo!! ...As others have noted numerous times, we ALL have problems in one form or another, part of life is trying to deal with them in a healthy, or at least safe way, and their are MORE than enough resources out there to aid in that) he should have involved only himself in the killing process. Taking others with you in a situation like that is no different then a suicide bombing or other act of EXTREME depravity, off yourself if you feel that is what needs to be done (despite the fact that suicide is NEVER an answer, only an act of cowardice, that is by killing oneself to try and alleviate a problem, but it only ends up hurting others close to you so much more) but for crying out loud DON"T INVOLVE OTHER PEOPLE!!

I often wonder if this kind of thing has always been happening, but it just wasn't well known until the media really stuck its filthy hands into the mix. Or if society truly is going downhill. As I get older, I grow to loathe more and more the way MY generation is handling itself. I'd like to avoid dragging my other views into this topic, so I'll keep it simple= Teen pregnancies are on the rise, there is an increasing disregard for the ideals of finding a meaningful relationship with a partner beyond drinking and screwing, and utter trash is being passed off as music, which is in turn being used as poster material for a general representation of my generation, much to my chagrin.

See? I've got a lot of pent up anger and frustration- I may even venture to say that this anger and frustration manifests itself as part of MY matchwork of problems, but do I feel the urge to go out and SHOOT people over it? Hell no.

At least this time it didn't turn into a shooting spree with more deaths. The kid could have gone completely postal and start shooting at everyone in sight.

How in the hell did he get his hands on a gun? Didn't his parents see something wrong? Surely he must have had friends at school who suspected he was behaving differently?

As usual with these events there are so many questions and yet no-one in authority will come up with any answers to try and prevent this happening again.

I agree with all of you as a collective whole but I choose not to blame videogames but rather the parents for the non-explanations of the violence and other activitiesin the games; I allow my 7 year old to play videogames yet he fully understands that they are only games and that they should not be taken seriously. I also like the "question authority" argument because that is the theory I personally believe is responsible. I was like Tangie in that I was the guy people would see but rarely want to acknowledge or be around but I never had the urge to become violent or want to hurt people; I gained some popularity in senior high school because I discoverd how to use my twisted sense of humor to my advantage :devil: ;) but I never had a part in causing harm to anybody! I also blame a lot of parents for choosing to be "blind" to the capabilities of their children. They can point out the wrongdoings of other children but not their own! I am the first to recognize the fact that my sons are wonderful children but will see what they can get away with when they think nobody is looking ( not that often ;) ) I feel it is my duty to society to raise 2 responsible, socially positive, moral sons that can help add more positivity to this twisted, decaying society. They also realize that they have 2 parents(something I never had) that care very deeply about them but will NOT tolerate any bullshit from them or any other child. As a youth counselor/juvenile corrections officer, I see sides to a lot of kids that their own parents don't see so my eyes are open a lot wider than I would sometimes like them to be so I guess it reflects in my parenting. sorry for the long post but I had to add to this interesting and worthwhile thread.:grey:

Anyone notice that this happened pretty much exactly 4 years after Columbine, which was on 4-20-99? It breaks my heart when I hear about this stuff... I know that there are kids out there with issues.. I mean every teenager has some sort of problem with someone or something, but when it gets to that extreme of a point, when they do something like shoot either classmates or in this case the principal, it makes me wonder why no one noticed something was wrong earlier. I know they always say hindsight is 20/20, but I'm sorry.. you don't go from being a relatively stable kid one day to a school shooting the next. Things are building up, and it's usually that one last straw that makes the kid snap.. In my opinion, the parent(s) can have a lot of intervention in a situation like that. It's usually the same type of kids that fit the profile.... it's the outcasts. The ones who come home and go straight up to their rooms and stay there. You usually hear the same "I had no idea.." coming from their parents. Today's teens are in a world where drama reigns supreme, and sometimes like in the case of Red Lion, Columbine, and Heritage, they do something extremely dramatic either to get attention or get noticed or simply to feel a sense of revenge. It's sad.

Some kids are just messed up. But IMO, in more cases than not it goes back to the parents. But no one can be blamed for things like this besides the guilty who did it. I'm tired of it always being video game or movies, etc. people need to stop finding excuses to blame it on something or someone else and take up for their own actions.

I hate hearing about those senerios. My prayers go out to the families. I will never understand why this happens. Things were never that bad when I was in school.

This is so sad,:( out of the amount of kids that actually do this, how many of them just fantasize but never do it?

somethings seriously wrong with kids lives if they want to go round shooting people

I blame too much freedom for people who do not respect the freedom that they are given, and untill the can respect it and understand it they should not have such freedom. I'm not talking about voting rights etc i'm talking about an age where freedom is given maybe in the teens or something

I believe that when things like this happen it is truly the parents fault. My opinion is much like others in this forum that an involved family could have spotted a problem like this 10 miles away.

I also do not believe that video games have anything what so ever to do with it, because I play some of the most violent video games on the market and I realize that they are video games and have no impact on real life decisions.

I never was picked on in school and never picked on anybody else. I got along with pretty much everybody who was a nice person, I never saw the need to make fun of people because they did not wear the same clothes as me. My attitude was that the more friends you had the easier the journey through high school would be and that maybe one day these unfortunate individuals that others would pick on may offer their assistance if I truly needed it. I was in a fair share of fights with friends against rival groups in our school and other local schools, however it never crossed my mind to do anything like bring a weapon to school and waste a bunch of people.

I do understand what can drive a person to do something like this, and the sad thing is that it can easily be helped.



these days there is a huge emphasis on being "cool" most people always want to be with the "Superior few" at school- most often those who don't make it- and do want to be amongst this group are picked on and laughed at by this group of "cool" kids- however the kids strive to be as cool as them- and lose thier sense of individuality- so they become a try-hard who gets picked on and takes all thier shit- a good case study of this is Meg Griffin from 'Family Guy' So with no friends or individuality they get eaten away mentally and generally go nuts.

of course then there is the type who are picked on and don't express how they feel, they repress all thier anger until it blows up and they do something irrational- ie- the school shootings.

Media is another problem- my mother always let me play violent R18 games (Once I got to about 14) and she made sure Iknew the difference between the reality on that computer/Television screen and the world outside- that I can't go around shooting up whoever I please (I was quite abig fan of Doom and a few violent SEGA games)


Generally just by talking to someone who will listen- or seeking professional help- this is all very cureable

Further support for those who believe that the 'culture of the gun' has gone too far.....

http://www.sunspot.net/news/local/annearundel/bal-ar.robbery23apr23,0,7147147.story?coll=bal%2Dlocal

After reading that Naki, It begs the question WHERE WERE HIS PARENTS? What parent in their right mind would just let their child of 7 years run around unsupervised? This once again brings on the subject that the parents have some of the blame simply because they are neglectful to their children. Do you think that this kid would have done this if his parents knew about it? Do you think he would have done this if his parents cared where he was and wanted what was best for him? Im not saying the parent should be blamed for all their child does because that's almost impossible to predict, but damn, they should at least know where their 7 year old son is.

Originally posted by kaoru-tochiro
This is so sad,:( out of the amount of kids that actually do this, how many of them just fantasize but never do it?

I believe this is a very valid point.

Why did he shoot the principal? No child molestation issues going on with him, or something along those lines. I'm not being accusational toward the pricipal, but nobody has factored that into the equation yet.

I hated my principal in junior high... used to call him a nazi. Schools are becoming more and more like prisons, honestly. You have to line up to eat. Sometimes we wouldn't have but like 5 minutes to eat because we had to wait so long. We were arranged in rows, and if someone talked, they were last on the list. It's a damn lunchroom for christ sake. Then they'd punish us for being late to class. I'm still angry about this and it was 6 years ago. I find it a common trend among humans that none of them like to be locked up.

I never had any wishes to kill my principal, but it did lead me to commit acts of school vandalism and rebellion. Mostly petty things though.

It would seem that the kid had issues at home too. Split up parents tends to have a big impact on kids. It did to me, and I was only four. Sometimes I wish I was disciplined a little more though. It's a tough thing for parents, to find that balance between too strict and too easy going.

By the way, the video game excuse is a cop out.