PCV Oil Catch Can, see what your engine is burning!

Since I have been on my vacation, I have installed a PCv catch can on my Blazer. You won't believe the amount of oil this thing is catching. Only 300 miles and it is half full.

What is half full you might say? Well, this...

http://www.tsobad.com/jtso/Images/Catch%20can/Catch%20can%20assembly.JPG

More information here:

http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9571&page=1&pp=25&highlight=catch
http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19219&highlight=catch
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=002301;p=0
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=000936;p=2
http://elantragtclub.tripod.com/elantra/id405.html
http://www.elantraxd.com/DIY/catch.php
http://www.mirage-performance.com/sonata/CatchCan/

You will absolutely drop your jaw when you seen how much oil your engine is burning normally. Want to get your engine cleaner, stop the oil from gumming up your intake and your valves!

Ahh, I want one of those. Excellent.

You should see the amount of gas laden oil I am collecting, it is ridiculous.

Imagine, that amount of oil constantly being burned in your engine.

Just as an update do you guys want to see a small video of this in action?

Do you want to see how much oil is in there after 500 miles?

Just as a teaser, it is much more than in this example photo.

http://www.mirage-performance.com/sonata/CatchCan/CatchCan002.jpg

Ok, here is the video you guys requested.

Click here to watch PCV Oil Catch Can in Action (http://media.putfile.com/pcvinaction)

http://www.tweaknews.net/img/p1.JPG

http://www.tweaknews.net/img/p2.JPG

Let me know what you think guys. These are my photos this time.

cant see from the photos ... u got any kind of brace or mount? however, I can see the cable ties ...

seems like alot of hose ...

do u think a mount is necessary?





Ok, here is the video you guys requested.

Click here to watch PCV Oil Catch Can in Action (http://media.putfile.com/pcvinaction)

http://x2.putfile.com/10/28720582351.jpg (http://www.putfile.com)

http://x2.putfile.com/10/28721041441.jpg (http://www.putfile.com)

Let me know what you think guys. These are my photos this time.

Nah, not necessary at all. There is a lot of hose seeing I didn't want any sharp bends to crimp the lines and restrict the flow.

This whole system installed in 5 minutes total.

Here is what you will need:

-Air Compressor Air/Water Separator
-Two 1/4" thread to 3/8" tube connectors.
-Four 1/2" hose clamps
-5-6 Cable Ties
-5-10 minutes worth of time.
-Teflon thread sealing tape for the fitting being screwed into the separator.
-depending on setup, 4-7 feet of 3/8" fuel line

You can get everything at Home Depot other than the 3/8 fuel line which you can get at you local auto supply store.

Works mint, and also, the oil that is caught DOES NOT get added back into the engine. You might think it is oil, but it is also a good portion fuel and contaminents.

After installing you will notice that you engine over time will start to run smoother and smoother as the carbon depostits are slowly burned out of the combustion chamber seeing there is nothing more being added to keep the deposits forming. Also, this will extend plug life considerably.

Hope you guy enjoy this, I love it, better in that plastic vial than in my intake fouling my plugs.

couple questions for ya LT;
-does this completely eliminate the pcv valve?
-if so, how is this system conected to where the valve would have been (can't see it in the pics)
-whatever is collected in the system, is it just discarded?
-because this system is removing oil from the engine, do you need to keep adding oil every so often?
-where does this thing actually hang in relation to the engine (toward the radiator, next to the manifolds)? maybe a pic from the pass side would help.
-also, is it ok to leave the filter in the separator or does it need to be removed (one link u posted has the filter out but in ur video u left it in)?

I wouldn't think you'd replace the PCV it's there as a vent. As for the oil - it would get burned up in the combustion chamber w/o this catch so it wouldn't change your oil consuption. If you regularly need to add oil you still will - if not then you still won't. I gotta get me one of these.

New project!!! DING DING!!!

ok now its making sense. now my only question is after the separator, where does the hose go? does it just connect to the PCV valve?

couple questions for ya LT;
-does this completely eliminate the pcv valve?
-if so, how is this system conected to where the valve would have been (can't see it in the pics)
-whatever is collected in the system, is it just discarded?
-because this system is removing oil from the engine, do you need to keep adding oil every so often?
-where does this thing actually hang in relation to the engine (toward the radiator, next to the manifolds)? maybe a pic from the pass side would help.
-also, is it ok to leave the filter in the separator or does it need to be removed (one link u posted has the filter out but in ur video u left it in)?

No, don't remove your PCV valve. One critical function of the PCV valve is to prevent backfiring flame from getting back into the crankcase. It only allows gas flow in one direction - into the air plenum. That's why it's a one-way valve instead of just a tube.

Also, you need to retain the PCV connection to keep removing blow-by gases from the crankcase, not to mention keeping the trap itself working. The PCV valve eliminates alot of fuel dilution and acid contamination from the oil in the crankcase by sucking out contaminating gases.

Yes, just discard the gunk in the trap after it gets half full or so.

I would discard the filter. At worst, it lets a little of the air-borne gunk pass through. You will still catch alot. I am worried the filter will get more and more plugged with gunk over time and restrict the ventilation flow of the vapor out of the crankcase. I think, the more the better. If you decrease the crankcase ventilation, you will increase the oil contamination.

My 2 cents

Seems really neat. I will have to try this in expensive mod. Cool post and great pics!

couple questions for ya LT;

You got it bro, fire away...... ;)

-does this completely eliminate the pcv valve?

No, you connect the hose to the PCV valve in the valve cover, the PCV valve remains.

-if so, how is this system conected to where the valve would have been (can't see it in the pics)

See above ^^^^^

-whatever is collected in the system, is it just discarded?

Yes, some people might think it is only oil, but it is actually oil + water + fuel + other random gases.

Discard it, this is the stuff you don't want going back into your oil. Just dump it into a safe and designated dumping container AKA old oil bottle.

-because this system is removing oil from the engine, do you need to keep adding oil every so often?

No, this is the oil that your engine will normally consume normally, the only thing is you are removing it instead of burning it. The results will be the same if not less burning seeing you will be keeping the oil cleaning and stopping the excess fuel from thinning you oil out. It is this oil that gums up you intake and valve.

Cliff's Notes: Nothing will change, if anything will change, oil consumption will be lower.

-where does this thing actually hang in relation to the engine (toward the radiator, next to the manifolds)? maybe a pic from the pass side would help.

Ok, you have to mount it where it is accessable and where it is safe from being damaged. You don't need to be fancy, as you see, I used cabel ties and it doesn't move a fraction of an inch.

Here is the requested photo you asked for, other year engines like 1996+ will probably benefit from a driver's side mount seeing the PCV valve is in the driver's side valve cover whereas my 1995 CPI engine has it in the passenger side cover.

Again, remember mount it on the side which your PCV valve is mounted.

http://x10.putfile.com/10/28817005397.jpg (http://www.putfile.com)

-also, is it ok to leave the filter in the separator or does it need to be removed (one link u posted has the filter out but in ur video u left it in)?

Yes, leave the filter in, I am sorry I confused you that way. Remember, not all the photos were mine (The photos in the post with the video is mine) . Leave the filter in and it will slow the flow down so more oil will and can be extracted. When I reinstalled the filter, the trapped oil amount went up a lot.

Hope this info helps you.

Oh and remember guys, this mod costs less than 25 bucks.

Just for your information, guys, here is how it goes:

1.) The separator has a flow direction, it has an arrow denoting that direction.

2.) Hose connects to the pcv valve and travels to the inlet side of the separator.

3.) Then the hose connected to the outlet side is connected to the connectio on the intake.

4.) You are done.

See, it is so easy. Just use fuel line and not flimy tubing seeing the gas is hot and the tube will actually collapse from the vacuum and heat.

Also, do NOT try to get cheap with the hose and have the hose turned at sharp angles seeing you will be crimping the hose and restricting flow.

VERY IMPORTANT, KNOW THE SIDE WHERE YOU PCV VALVE IS AND NOT THE SIDE FOR YOUR FRESH AIR INTAKE.

yes that helped me alot. I have everything except the hose which i'll get tomorrow. just 2 final questions for ya;
-can that filter be cleaned by like rinsing it out with water?
-brian r makes a good point: if the filter slows down the air flow to capture more contamenents, wouldn't that reduced airflow to the pcv cause the problem that the system is trying to eliminate?

yes that helped me alot. I have everything except the hose which i'll get tomorrow. just 2 final questions for ya;

Ok, here we go again.....I kid...I kid......

-can that filter be cleaned by like rinsing it out with water?

It is a solid plastic filter and when you look inside of it, it is mostly hollow. You cna clean it in some mild cleaner every once in a while. But it won't be trapping much solids, more gases and liquid which flow right through it.

-brian r makes a good point: if the filter slows down the air flow to capture more contamenents, wouldn't that reduced airflow to the pcv cause the problem that the system is trying to eliminate?

You see, this is what I though to when I initially removed it. The thing is, my engine idle was 50rpms above where it was before which is because the hose tubing is quite large and you don't have that much restriction in the system.

I installed the filter again and everything smoothed out and the idle is perfect and spot on again. It was leting too much flow through and I know that the PCV valve is supposed to regulate that, but out PCV valves are not spring loaded so it will open up even more.

Even with the filter installed, you will be flowing more than the stock setup.

Trust me on this, I have had this installed for over 3 weeks now. And no, you are still getting rid of all the gases in the crankcase and there is nothing being left behind.

yea sry about all the damn questions, lol. i just like to know all the details before i start a project. i got it all straight now and i'll install the system tomorrow. again thanks for the info. i'll let ya know how it works out seeing that i have the same engine.

yea sry about all the damn questions, lol. i just like to know all the details before i start a project. i got it all straight now and i'll install the system tomorrow. again thanks for the info. i'll let ya know how it works out seeing that i have the same engine.

Oh for sure, and also route the hose coming from the PCV valve through the back of the accumulator and have a little slack going down to the PCV valve connection so you don't have the PCV valve on an angle.

Oh for sure, and also route the hose coming from the PCV valve through the back of the accumulator and have a little slack going down to the PCV valve connection so you don't have the PCV valve on an angle.
thanks for that tip. i had planed on using ur photos as a "map". I'll route it exactly as u have it on urs. this system might be a cheap way to save my high mileage motor.

thanks for that tip. i had planed on using ur photos as a "map". I'll route it exactly as u have it on urs. this system might be a cheap way to save my high mileage motor.

Oh for sure. You will like it. Might as well install a news PCV valve while you are at it if you have never done it.

Oh for sure. You will like it. Might as well install a news PCV valve while you are at it if you have never done it.
changed the pcv as part of the tune up i did while performing the cpi swap so i'm good to go :bigthumb:.

changed the pcv as part of the tune up i did while performing the cpi swap so i'm good to go :bigthumb:.

Excellent, take photos of your install.

Excellent, take photos of your install.
i'll do that.

It is a solid plastic filter and when you look inside of it, it is mostly hollow. You cna clean it in some mild cleaner every once in a while. But it won't be trapping much solids, more gases and liquid which flow right through it.

It was leting too much flow through and I know that the PCV valve is supposed to regulate that, but out PCV valves are not spring loaded so it will open up even more.

Even with the filter installed, you will be flowing more than the stock setup.

The oil that is in the filter will restrict flow through the filter. It will continuously and slowly flow through the filter, slowly since the oil is viscous, and continuously since once it flows through the filter, it will be replaced by more oil from the crankcase. Your oil viscosity and dilution will change how much the filter restricts flow, so each engine will have different restrictions. As the filter gets dirty, it will restrict more.

The PCV valve is the biggest restriction in the stock system by alot. If you hook up bigger tubing, it will not make any difference to the flow since it will not affect the PCV valve restriction. Also, the PCV valve is either on or off. There is no variability to how open it is. If it clicks closed, it is closed. If it clicks open, it is open. If the filter becomes nearly as restrictive or more restrictive than the PCV valve, then the total restriction of the PCV system will increase and you will get less flow out of the crankcase.

It's up to you whether you want to keep the filter or not, but you'd better keep an eye on it and have some way of telling if it is restricting PCV system flow.

I'm kinda being nosy here, but what are the real benafits of installing such a system?

You are trapping contaminated oil that is otherwise burned by the engine. The oil will contribute to carbon formation in the combustion chamber as well as emissions.

The oil that is in the filter will restrict flow through the filter. It will continuously and slowly flow through the filter, slowly since the oil is viscous, and continuously since once it flows through the filter, it will be replaced by more oil from the crankcase. Your oil viscosity and dilution will change how much the filter restricts flow, so each engine will have different restrictions. As the filter gets dirty, it will restrict more.

The PCV valve is the biggest restriction in the stock system by alot. If you hook up bigger tubing, it will not make any difference to the flow since it will not affect the PCV valve restriction. Also, the PCV valve is either on or off. There is no variability to how open it is. If it clicks closed, it is closed. If it clicks open, it is open. If the filter becomes nearly as restrictive or more restrictive than the PCV valve, then the total restriction of the PCV system will increase and you will get less flow out of the crankcase.

It's up to you whether you want to keep the filter or not, but you'd better keep an eye on it and have some way of telling if it is restricting PCV system flow.

Brian,

I sincerely appreciate your contribution to this thread.

Unfortuneately, I am going to have to disagree with you there based on the following. I thought the same thing and I cut the element out seeing you still need the filter element assembly to put everything together. I did this and the idle engine speed went up by close to 50-75rpms. I then installed a new filter element back in there and everything went back to normal. The increase in hose size did allow for more flow through the assembly and because you also removed the small stock PCV hose size restriction which lead to more flow and there for the engine recognized it as a vacuum leak. Even if there is only a finite amount the pcv valve opens up doesn't mean there is a finite amount of air that can be sucked through that diameter of opening.

http://x10.putfile.com/10/28821583721-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=10/28821583721.jpg&s=x10)

The filter element does restrict the flow, but nothing close to what you think it does.

As shown above, the filter is incredibely porous and if you blow or suck through the actual full assembled separator assembly, the restriction is minimal.

What it boils down to is the filter does not hinder the PCV gas evacuation from the crankcase. As you can see in the photos, it is getting PLENTY of airflow if it is able to get that much oil in that small of a timeframe.

I tested it both ways and the engine and filter performs better with the filter installed. With the filter cut, the flow was just too high and oil way not being separated as well. The flow was too high and some of the oil was still getting through and into the intake.

It is perfect with the filter installed. Check out the other links in the first post in this thread. Most people actually leave it in.

As I said, if you leave the filter in, you better have a way of check it's contribution to flow restriction as time goes on. Your short time using it is not indicative of how it will perform in your truck (nor in other's trucks) in the future. How much it resticts the flow now and how much it restricts the flow in 20k miles are two different things.

Regardless of what happens in your truck, i think it is advisable for everyone who tampers with the PCV system to be cautious and be aware of how much each truck differs in blow-by, as well as oil viscosity.

Extrapolating advise to everyone on the basis of what is best for your truck is chancy in this type of modification, at best.

with the filter and catch can being oriented at 90 degrees to the hose/air flow ... ... ... how is the oil/air/fuel/gunk being drawn towards the filter and into the can?

does the filter extend up into the black plastic part with the directional arrow? meaning all flow must go thru the filter first?







Brian,

I sincerely appreciate your contribution to this thread.

Unfortuneately, I am going to have to disagree with you there based on the following. I thought the same thing and I cut the element out seeing you still need the filter element assembly to put everything together. I did this and the idle engine speed went up by close to 50-75rpms. I then installed a new filter element back in there and everything went back to normal. The increase in hose size did allow for more flow through the assembly and because you also removed the small stock PCV hose size restriction which lead to more flow and there for the engine recognized it as a vacuum leak. Even if there is only a finite amount the pcv valve opens up doesn't mean there is a finite amount of air that can be sucked through that diameter of opening.

http://x10.putfile.com/10/28821583721-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=10/28821583721.jpg&s=x10)

The filter element does restrict the flow, but nothing close to what you think it does.

As shown above, the filter is incredibely porous and if you blow or suck through the actual full assembled separator assembly, the restriction is minimal.

What it boils down to is the filter does not hinder the PCV gas evacuation from the crankcase. As you can see in the photos, it is getting PLENTY of airflow if it is able to get that much oil in that small of a timeframe.

I tested it both ways and the engine and filter performs better with the filter installed. With the filter cut, the flow was just too high and oil way not being separated as well. The flow was too high and some of the oil was still getting through and into the intake.

It is perfect with the filter installed. Check out the other links in the first post in this thread. Most people actually leave it in.

As I said, if you leave the filter in, you better have a way of check it's contribution to flow restriction as time goes on. Your short time using it is not indicative of how it will perform in your truck (nor in other's trucks) in the future. How much it resticts the flow now and how much it restricts the flow in 20k miles are two different things.

Regardless of what happens in your truck, i think it is advisable for everyone who tampers with the PCV system to be cautious and be aware of how much each truck differs in blow-by, as well as oil viscosity.

Extrapolating advise to everyone on the basis of what is best for your truck is chancy in this type of modification, at best.

All I am communicating is what I have noticed and what performs the best through my in-hand testing.

If you are concerned about restrictions, you can always clean it every 10,000 miles or clean it everytime you dump out the trapped oil.

Reagardless, the benefits out-weigh all drawbacks and if anyone is concerned you, can see the 1000s of them on ebay and on racing and performance enthusiest sites along with the links in the top starting post in this thread.

Thanks for your contribution Brian, I rally appreciate it. :)

with the filter and catch can being oriented at 90 degrees to the hose/air flow ... ... ... how is the oil/air/fuel/gunk being drawn towards the filter and into the can?

does the filter extend up into the black plastic part with the directional arrow? meaning all flow must go thru the filter first?

The outlet for the separator is actually the filter in the center. The inlet spins the air around the ouside causing the vortex you see in the video earlier. The cleaner air is sucked up through the center and then into the intake.

All I am communicating is what I have noticed and what performs the best through my in-hand testing.

If you are concerned about restrictions, you can always clean it every 10,000 miles or clean it everytime you dump out the trapped oil.

Reagardless, the benefits out-weigh all drawbacks and if anyone is concerned you, can see the 1000s of them on ebay and on racing and performance enthusiest sites along with the links in the top starting post in this thread.

I understand your purpose exactly and I am not misinterpreting that at all. I am just making sure that everyone sees the possible problems with this system. I don't care if everyone in the world uses it. Popularity has very little to do with functionality, particularly when there is a drawback that is not easily measured, as there is in this case. I am not concerned about restrictions (since I will not install this) but everyone who does install it better be concerned about restrictions. I am only concerned about their engines.

Your caution about washing the filter periodically is exactly the type of caution that needed to be submitted up front, and my point in bringing this to everyone's attention since it was obviously overlooked. I think it is absolutely necessary to either check it by flow, or clean it. How often is going to be each person's responsibility to determine for their engine and driving habits, oil viscosity, etc. If their engine gunks up the PCV valve, it will certainly gunk up that filter over time.

so either don't use the filter or use it, but clean it when u dump out the contamenents. thats all u had to say.

sorry to be so 'un-scientific' but ... if it flows (with no change in vacuum or rpms or idel), then, it flows! right!

of course, oil will slightly restrict flow ...

all filters (and the junk that they collect) slightly restrict flow ... thats why we replace filters ...


" ... It's up to you whether you want to keep the filter or not, but you'd better keep an eye on it and have some way of telling if it is restricting PCV system flow.[/QUOTE ... "

IS NOT THE CATCH-CAN ITSELF A WAY OF TELLING IF IT IS RESTRICTING PCV SYSTEM FLOW ???!!!

If idle/vacuum are OK, and oil/gas/vapors are collecting in the can ... what other evidence is necessary ???







The oil that is in the filter will restrict flow through the filter. It will continuously and slowly flow through the filter, slowly since the oil is viscous, and continuously since once it flows through the filter, it will be replaced by more oil from the crankcase. Your oil viscosity and dilution will change how much the filter restricts flow, so each engine will have different restrictions. As the filter gets dirty, it will restrict more.

The PCV valve is the biggest restriction in the stock system by alot. If you hook up bigger tubing, it will not make any difference to the flow since it will not affect the PCV valve restriction. Also, the PCV valve is either on or off. There is no variability to how open it is. If it clicks closed, it is closed. If it clicks open, it is open. If the filter becomes nearly as restrictive or more restrictive than the PCV valve, then the total restriction of the PCV system will increase and you will get less flow out of the crankcase.

It's up to you whether you want to keep the filter or not, but you'd better keep an eye on it and have some way of telling if it is restricting PCV system flow.

I understand your purpose exactly and I am not misinterpreting that at all. I am just making sure that everyone sees the possible problems with this system. I don't care if everyone in the world uses it. Popularity has very little to do with functionality, particularly when there is a drawback that is not easily measured, as there is in this case. I am not concerned about restrictions (since I will not install this) but everyone who does install it better be concerned about restrictions. I am only concerned about their engines.

Your caution about washing the filter periodically is exactly the type of caution that needed to be submitted up front, and my point in bringing this to everyone's attention since it was obviously overlooked. I think it is absolutely necessary to either check it by flow, or clean it. How often is going to be each person's responsibility to determine for their engine and driving habits, oil viscosity, etc. If their engine gunks up the PCV valve, it will certainly gunk up that filter over time.

If you have a bad restriction in this PCV system on this truck, you wil know it. The engine wil actually start to stumble and the idle rpms will fall low enough that the engine idle rather poorly.

If you want a test for that when you install this system, pinch the PCV hose between your thumb and index finger and you will hear the engine idle drop about 100rpms. You release and the idle sooths out perfectly.

sorry to be so 'un-scientific' but ... if it flows (with no change in vacuum or rpms or idel), then, it flows! right!

of course, oil will slightly restrict flow ...

all filters (and the junk that they collect) slightly restrict flow ... thats why we replace filters ...


" ... It's up to you whether you want to keep the filter or not, but you'd better keep an eye on it and have some way of telling if it is restricting PCV system flow.[/QUOTE ... "

IS NOT THE CATCH-CAN ITSELF A WAY OF TELLING IF IT IS RESTRICTING PCV SYSTEM FLOW ???!!!

If idle/vacuum are OK, and oil/gas/vapors are collecting in the can ... what other evidence is necessary ???

This is true, there is plenty of flow through it seeing if you pinch the new tubng the engine actually starts to stumble and the idle drops, you release and the idle comes back up to normal.

so either don't use the filter or use it, but clean it when u dump out the contamenents. thats all u had to say.

No. Apparently, in BlazerLT's engine, you have to use the filter to add restriction. If your engine is exactly the same as his, then you better use the filter too.

sorry to be so 'un-scientific' but ... if it flows (with no change in vacuum or rpms or idel), then, it flows! right!

of course, oil will slightly restrict flow ...

all filters (and the junk that they collect) slightly restrict flow ... thats why we replace filters ...


" ... It's up to you whether you want to keep the filter or not, but you'd better keep an eye on it and have some way of telling if it is restricting PCV system flow.[/QUOTE ... "

IS NOT THE CATCH-CAN ITSELF A WAY OF TELLING IF IT IS RESTRICTING PCV SYSTEM FLOW ???!!!

If idle/vacuum are OK, and oil/gas/vapors are collecting in the can ... what other evidence is necessary ???

Yes, it will always flow to some extent. How much restriction you can tolerate without additional oil contamination is unknown.

Yes, that is why you replace filters. I don't believe that most people who read the first few posts in this thread would replace or clean that filter periodically. It's my job to make sure that any advice given out is as complete as possible so that anyone who reads about any recommendations on this site isn't mislead or remains even partially uninformed. I have to be more careful than the average poster. The reputation of this site and this forum is at stake.

No, the catch-can will not tell you what flow is going through the system. If you never catch any oil, then you have no flow and that's about all you can say. If the flow is restricted, then how much is acceptable? I doubt you or I or BlazerLT, or for that matter anyone else here knows that.

All I can do is make you aware of potential problems that I see. I don't mind being corrected by anyone who knows more about a particular engine than I do. Such discussion adds to everyone's knowledge. In the end, it's your truck and you can do what you like to it. I just don't want people to go away from here partially uninformed.

If you have a bad restriction in this PCV system on this truck, you wil know it. The engine wil actually start to stumble and the idle rpms will fall low enough that the engine idle rather poorly.

If you want a test for that when you install this system, pinch the PCV hose between your thumb and index finger and you will hear the engine idle drop about 100rpms. You release and the idle sooths out perfectly.

Excellent - here is a way of telling if you have no flow. Now the $64,000 question that everyone should figure out is: How much flow restriction is acceptable and how much is harmful to your engine?

This is not important only if the filter never gets plugged further than it is when freshly installed. If it gets more and more plugged, you have a problem that is different for each engine.

Excellent - here is a way of telling if you have no flow. Now the $64,000 question that everyone should figure out is: How much flow restriction is acceptable and how much is harmful to your engine?

This is not important only if the filter never gets plugged further than it is when freshly installed. If it gets more and more plugged, you have a problem that is different for each engine.

Easy really, check your idle rpms, if it is in the range, you are fine. If it was plugged your engine will idle low.

Also, there is proactically no chance that an liquid will plug this coarse filter. Only solids will.

yea, I would'nt recommend this to anybody who has a problem with keeping up there car maintence.

If your pcv filter became clogged it can cause oil leaks from seals and/or gaskets due to high crankcase pressures.


besides the blow-by, fuel, and moisture from the crankcase actually helps the combustion process by improving drivability and performance.

Its normal for automobiles to have some oil comsumption. just aslong its nothing big.

If you suspect your valves be clogged, just use a top end engine cleaner.


the way I see it, if it works fine why f*** with it? :cheers:

oh yea a good way to check ur pcv valve is to either take it out and shake it,....
its normal for the valve plunger inside the valve body to make a rattle,,....no rattle bad valve.

or you can use a suitable tool to pinch the pcv valve hose while the engine is at idle,..
there should be a change rpms when u pinch and u may hear a clicking noise when releasing and pinching the hose.
No change in rpms or no click means bad valve.

Try it if you want, but I don't think blowby gas is good for the driveability.

Our engines are only made to recycle this back into the intake for emmisions and environmental purposes, NOT to make the engine run better.

It's good that you can see restriction in your truck. I don't know how good an indicator this is for others with either the same or different engines.

Thanks for attempting to answer my questions.

It's good that you can see restriction in your truck. I don't know how good an indicator this is for others with either the same or different engines.

Thanks for attempting to answer my questions.

I hope you are not upset with me. =(

Ah, the $64,000 question you mean, it sounded more like a statement, not something youwanted me to answer directly.

You know what enough flow is, it is enough that the idle is exactly the same as before when it was not installed.

The MAP pressure sensor will tell you that for sure and does the measurements for you by controlling the vacuum in the intake.

If my idle is the same, then the flow and vacuum must be the same right?

Either way, you are removing the PCV gas out of the crank seeing if you didn't have enough flow, you sure wouldn't be bringing enough vapour into the separator to cause that amount of oil to collect.

But honestly, I installed it as many other have and suffered no problems whatsoever over 1000s of miles worth of direct evidence.

I understand you point but nothing is exact science like you seem to want it to be.

Example

- Do you think the difference in airflow from a cold air intake might hurt the engine?
- Does a high performance muffler reduce backpressure and does that hurt the exhaust valves?

Do we have any hard evidence saying that these tow things might in the long run cause harm to our engine? Not really....

But they sure will help which is exactly what this mod does. If it was a problem or it caused potential damage, you wouldn't think the diesel industry would use it in their industrial applications because I know my father's construction equipment has it.

Most of his equpment is 10-20 years old and working just fine.

Most of the mods on the market don't have the hard tested evidence you are asking for Brian.

Upset with you? No never. The only way I'd be upset is if you refused to discuss it and called me some kind of asshole for asking questions. You always attempt to answer question and do a really good job in that regard.

I don't expect answers to all the questions perfectly. I want answers to as many as possible. If you run out of science, it's not your fault. The systems are too damn complex. Once I know the limit of people's understanding of the system, I can give better recommendations on what to do and what not to do.

Getting that discussion on paper (more or less) is important for others to make up their mind about whether to adopt a mod or not. Saying "I've tried it and it worked for me" is not good enough for alot of engine mods. People need as much information as is available to provide the most critical of them to make an informed decision. Many mods are so simple in their effect, this is not necessary. This mod your advocating is not simple in its effect on the crankcase ventilation over time.

If the "hard tested evidence" is not available, I can easily live with that. That's the way things normally are. I just want to know that it's not available and have it on paper for the reasons I've just cited.

Just to belabor one point. IMO, the lack of oil in the separator is too coarse of an indicator to show that flow has been reduced when and if the filter partially plugs. The reduction in flow may be critical to crankcase ventilation and oil life.

Those examples you provided are much more simple than the mod in question. They both only change airflow through the combustion chambers of the engine. The potential problem with the oil-separator is a reduction in crankcase ventilation when the filter partially plugs. That is much more complex a system (lubricating ability of engine oil over time with varying ventilation) and really difficult to predict, even in an engine you are extremely familiar with - much less the rest of the engines belonging to people who might read this forum.

Don't worry about me. I think I know my limitations. :)

PS I apologize if I've trashed your thread with nonsense. To me, it's important - I know it isn't to everyone.

I appreciate your thoughts and you are right on the money.

But I wantd to firm up one point. The filter is on the outlet of the separator and fluid is unable to plug it. There is no relative solids coming through this system so filter plugging is practically non-existent.

The filter is extremely coarse and by the picture I showed earlier with is cut across the center, it is not a considerable restriction even when wet.

This will mainly help high-mileage engines. Large amounts of oil are an indication of excessive blow-by due to worn piston rings. As the amount of blow-by increases, the velocity of flow through the PCV system increases. The faster-flowing air is able to keep more oil-mist particles in suspension, and therefore carries more oil mist through the PCV system.
One thing to keep an eye on is to watch for new leaks from your engine gaskets. Addition of this filter will increase the pressure that is acting on all the seals and gaskets in your engine.
With all things considered, it is probably a good idea IF the separator screen is always clean, AND you change your oil often.
Another indication of excessive blow-by or plugged/restricted PCV is prescense of oil in the breather inlet line (hose from air filter to valve cover).
When the amount of blow-by exceeds the amount that can flow through the PCV valve, the blow-by starts to flow OUT of the breather line, where it is sucked into the main air intake. If your intake butterfly is getting gummed up, this is why. So if the addition of this separator causes restriction, you should keep an eye on the breather hose for signs of oil.

This will mainly help high-mileage engines. Large amounts of oil are an indication of excessive blow-by due to worn piston rings. As the amount of blow-by increases, the velocity of flow through the PCV system increases. The faster-flowing air is able to keep more oil-mist particles in suspension, and therefore carries more oil mist through the PCV system.
One thing to keep an eye on is to watch for new leaks from your engine gaskets. Addition of this filter will increase the pressure that is acting on all the seals and gaskets in your engine.
With all things considered, it is probably a good idea IF the separator screen is always clean, AND you change your oil often.
Another indication of excessive blow-by or plugged/restricted PCV is prescense of oil in the breather inlet line (hose from air filter to valve cover).
When the amount of blow-by exceeds the amount that can flow through the PCV valve, the blow-by starts to flow OUT of the breather line, where it is sucked into the main air intake. If your intake butterfly is getting gummed up, this is why. So if the addition of this separator causes restriction, you should keep an eye on the breather hose for signs of oil.

I understand what you are saying, but my friend just installed this on his 2004 Civic with 20,000 miles and he is already seeing collection after only 1000 miles. Honda's are known to really consume oil through the PCV system.

This system will NOT cause crankcase pressure. I just removed the hose connected to the PCV valve and stuck my finger over the hole and the suction was so strong it kinda hurt and left a raised area of skin that was sucked up the hole in the hose. I then removed the hose from the outlet side of the filter and again stuck my finger over the hole and was met with the same state with no real difference felt.

The filter in this setup is not a serious restriction in this system. The filter element is extemely thin and I wish you guys would go buy one and look instead of saying it is restrictive from your computer chair. There is no way a liquid can plug this small hollow porous filter element. It just won't happen.

As said earlier, I thought the same thing as you guys and cut the element off only to have to much PCV flow through causing the engine to perform and idle like I had a vacuum leak.

I will prove this by attaching a vacuum gauge sometime in the near future for you guys to show the relative small difference.

LT, i just finished the install on my 95 jimmy 5 minutes ago. Took about 10 minutes to install. I started the truck and the idle was spot on. I also left the filter in. like u said, i looked at the filter and it is thin. I installed it similar to urs. i routed the hose coming from the pcv behind the accumulator and tucked it in between the ecm and the accumulator. How long did it take for u to notice contamenents in the separator? I am curious to see how this thing works on my 200,000+ mile engine. anyway, i'll get some pics up here ASAP. O and the total cost was about $30-$40. thanks to everyone for the info and i'll keep u updated on the system's performance.

Shouldn't take long at all.

Remove the PCV valve with it hooked up and feel the strong vacuum still there. You can reference me as to just how strong this vacuum is.

Shouldn't take long at all.

Remove the PCV valve with it hooked up and feel the strong vacuum still there. You can reference me as to just how strong this vacuum is.
i just did what u told me to do. yes the vacuum is very stong and it does hurt after a while. just as i put my finger over the hose, the engine started to bog down. let off and the idle rises somewhat. plug the pcv back in and normal idle resumes. i guess this means the system is working well.

I understand what you are saying, but my friend just installed this on his 2004 Civic with 20,000 miles and he is already seeing collection after only 1000 miles. Honda's are known to really consume oil through the PCV system.

This system will NOT cause crankcase pressure. I just removed the hose connected to the PCV valve and stuck my finger over the hole and the suction was so strong it kinda hurt and left a raised area of skin that was sucked up the hole in the hose. I then removed the hose from the outlet side of the filter and again stuck my finger over the hole and was met with the same state with no real difference felt.


You are confusing vacuum (a presure measurement) with air flow (a mass transfer measurement). They are two different things. Your finger stopped the flow and measured the vacuum available. This vacuum is available anywhere in the system and is independent of the opening. Flow is dependent on the diameter of the opening and the difference in pressure between the two sides of the opening.

This is analogous to measuring normal fuel pressure and assuming your fuel filter is OK. You have to measure fuel flow to see if the fuel filter is plugged and you are starved for fuel. Vacuum is a static measurement. Flow is dynamic.

You are confusing vacuum (a presure measurement) with air flow (a mass transfer measurement). They are two different things. Your finger stopped the flow and measured the vacuum available. This vacuum is available anywhere in the system and is independent of the opening. Flow is dependent on the diameter of the opening and the difference in pressure between the two sides of the opening.

This is analogous to measuring normal fuel pressure and assuming your fuel filter is OK. You have to measure fuel flow to see if the fuel filter is plugged and you are starved for fuel. Vacuum is a static measurement. Flow is dynamic.

Yes, but if there was a restriction there wouldn't be any vacuum or very small flow.

There is a lot of vacuum and flow here and we both have seen it and experienced it.

doesn't the pcv valve control airflow (mass) by how far it opens? At low idle, blowby is not strong which means the pcv valve will only open slightly. Under heavier engine load, the blowby is greater and the pcv opens wider allowing more airflow (mass) to go thru.

Thus, if vacuum is normal (as determined by MAP and idle), then the PCV is under normal conditions / circumstances to do its job controlling the (mass) ... ???

also, if the blowby is so strong that the pcv cant allow ALLl blowby to escape (or perhaps the catchcan filter is slightly dirty) then the excess goes back thru the breather hose? is that right?

seems like changes in airflow (mass) caused by a filter (gradually over time becoming saturated) would be compensated for at the PCV valve.

thoughts ??




You are confusing vacuum (a presure measurement) with air flow (a mass transfer measurement). They are two different things. Your finger stopped the flow and measured the vacuum available. This vacuum is available anywhere in the system and is independent of the opening. Flow is dependent on the diameter of the opening and the difference in pressure between the two sides of the opening.

This is analogous to measuring normal fuel pressure and assuming your fuel filter is OK. You have to measure fuel flow to see if the fuel filter is plugged and you are starved for fuel. Vacuum is a static measurement. Flow is dynamic.

Yes, but if there was a restriction there wouldn't be any vacuum or very small flow.

That's not correct. As long as there is any flow (and no leaks), you will get the same vacuum as with high flow. That's my point.

doesn't the pcv valve control airflow (mass) by how far it opens? At low idle, blowby is not strong which means the pcv valve will only open slightly. Under heavier engine load, the blowby is greater and the pcv opens wider allowing more airflow (mass) to go thru.

Thus, if vacuum is normal (as determined by MAP and idle), then the PCV is under normal conditions / circumstances to do its job controlling the (mass) ... ???

also, if the blowby is so strong that the pcv cant allow ALLl blowby to escape (or perhaps the catchcan filter is slightly dirty) then the excess goes back thru the breather hose? is that right?

seems like changes in airflow (mass) caused by a filter (gradually over time becoming saturated) would be compensated for at the PCV valve.

thoughts ??

The PCV valve only controls the direction of flow (a check valve), not how much is flowing. It is not a variable valve, only an on-off valve.

What you said about the strong blowby is pretty much correct.

yup, I just got to thinking ... its not a spring loaded valve ...

got it.



The PCV valve only controls the direction of flow (a check valve), not how much is flowing. It is not a variable valve, only an on-off valve.

What you said about the strong blowby is pretty much correct.

http://gm-trucks.com/IAR_pcv.shtml

fixed-orifice VS valve style?????????????


thoughts ?

would changing over to the fixed-orifice (kinky) do the same thing as the catch-can? are these on late-model trucks?




The PCV valve only controls the direction of flow (a check valve), not how much is flowing. It is not a variable valve, only an on-off valve.

What you said about the strong blowby is pretty much correct.